JacksonColt
Rookie
There is an enormous difference between an 11 year age differential and a 6 year age differential. What makes it worse is your crying about it when Djokovic was two steps away from 30 himself.
At 32, both Fedal achieved their 17th...
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There is an enormous difference between an 11 year age differential and a 6 year age differential. What makes it worse is your crying about it when Djokovic was two steps away from 30 himself.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
It's not my fault that Djokovic peaked in 2011 and then again in 2015.
You should maybe ask yourself why he underpeformed in 2012-2014 when he was 25-27 and then went on a tear when he was in his late 20s instead of the other way round.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
What is a "baby ATG"?
Please give examples, so that we can have some fun by requiring some examples by comparison.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
A baby ATG = your favorite player before he started winningWhat is a "baby ATG"?
Please give examples, so that we can have some fun by requiring some examples by comparison.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Agassi 2004-05
slam score: 19-6
top10 beat: 1
overall score: 75-25
top10 beat: 8
Federer 2014-15
slam score 37-8
top10 beat: 6
overall score: 136-23
top10 beat: 32
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Meeeh.
The trouble is, once one puts the definition down, it has to stand up to scrutiny for the general case, and the recent onslaught of "experts", "scientific prominents", and just the general well-wishers, seem to have trouble with these things.
In fact, the last time I asked the personthat I am asking now to explain his position, it was curtains for the conversation.
Happens far too often, so let's hope that this time we get lucky.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
LOL
CYGS
Legend
Still heads and shoulders above Federer beating nobodies.
ForehandRF
Legend
I'm amazed by how much respect you're showing towards professional players from the past.
RaulRamirez
Legend
I'm always reluctant to make predictions.
Let's say Djokovic wins "only" one more major (to get to 16), wins 4 of the 10 other big tourneys, and holds onto #1 for the whole year.
That's a huge season; are his fans supposed to be disappointed with this?!
Let's say Djokovic wins "only" one more major (to get to 16), wins 4 of the 10 other big tourneys, and holds onto #1 for the whole year.
That's a huge season; are his fans supposed to be disappointed with this?!
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Murray does not count as an all-time great on clay. Thus, Djokovic defeating Murray at RG 2016 does not count as strong opposition.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
Agassi had less miles on him than the 11 year gap makes it sound.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
In 2015-16 he was in red hot form on clay though.
From Rome14 to RG16 on clay he lost only to Djokovic and Nadal (39-0 vs others)
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Sport
G.O.A.T.
Yes, Djokovic fans would be dissapointed. Djokovic is expected to win both Wimbledon and the US Open. Roland Garros is not a must, but it is undoubtedly another huge objective.
RaulRamirez
Legend
No doubt that winning 2 of the remaining 3 - let alone all 3, which would be monumental - would be huge.
But even if he's the favorite for all three - and let's say a co-favorite with Rafa (for now) at RG - it's simply not as easy as many people make it out to be to win slams.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
LOL no.
You get fooled by a 34-year old Federer beating Nishikori or Gasquet like other Djokovic fans.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Watch the tennis.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
I don't think he is a co-favorite with Nadal at RG. Nadal leads the H2H over Djokovic 6-1 at RG, and has won 11 RG for Djokovic's 1. Even in his prime years Djokovic failed to win most matches against Nadal at RG (2012, 2013, 2014).
What I do see is that Djokovic is the second favorite for RG and will have his chances to defeat Nadal. He has beaten Nadal 7 times on clay.
When your name is Novak Djokovic is just that easy to win Grand Slams. He is gonna surpass both Nadal and Federer's Grand Slam achievements.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
Throwing in the towel so soon? Don't let the AO make you give up.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Too late for him, no?
In that period Agassi lost 3 times to Federer and once to Safin on HC, lost in the first round of RG and didn't play Wimbledon at all both years due to injuries.
Also, the correct comparison should be with Federer’s 2015/2016 seasons.
This guy's work with data and knowledge are a joke.
itrium84
Hall of Fame
Murray literally destroyed the clay opposition in that period, showing absolute dominance against every single tennis player (except Djokodal).
Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
Tennis_Hands
Banned
It is funny.
Several hours ago a staunch Djokovic fan was saying that Nadal gets his 21, and he doesn't think that Djoko will even reach 20, and now this.
It seems that these guys are happy to throw themselves at each other, and share a good knee-jerk, hoping that at least one of them will "get lucky" in the end.
RaulRamirez
Legend
My point about Djokovic (for now) being a co-favorite w/ Rafa was part of a bigger overall point.
I'm not at all repudiating what Rafa has done on clay in general and at RG in particular, but Djokovic winning the last two big H2Hs with Rafa (albeit on grass and HC) and his present momentum may be enough to establish him as at least a co-favorite there. We'll see what the clay swing brings. My hopes (as a dual Rafa/Novak fan) for the first half of the season have already been dashed: I was hoping Rafa would take the AO, and Novak the FO. Now, with another 4-in-a-row and a double GS on the slam line for Novak, I think (for the little it's worth) I'll be rooting for Novak at RG and Rafa at Wimbledon.
As for Novak surpassing both Rafa and Fed by the time they all hang it up, he has a shot at it, and he may truly be the best of essentially 3 GOATs, as I see it. But, I'm always reluctant to make such predictions, and I'm not writing off all of the Next Gen guys (let alone Roger and Rafa) so easily.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
As long as Federer gets passed by someone right?It is funny.
Several hours ago a staunch Djokovic fan was saying that Nadal gets his 21, and he doesn't think that Djoko will even reach 20, and now this.
It seems that these guys are happy to throw themselves at each other, and share a good knee-jerk, hoping that at least one of them will "get lucky" in the end.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
He's got a good chance of a great year. But you're getting way ahead of yourself in this post. He looked in just as good shape in 2012 and 2013, and didn't win another Slam in either year, and 2016, when he only won one further Slam. There's definitely a very good chance that he'll win two Slams in 2019, not more, and there's a realistic chance that he won't win another at all.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
In age-related Slam terms, the case for Federer looks good because Djokovic is behind where Federer was at the same age, Nadal is tied, and Federer won three Slams after turning 35. However, Federer won no Slams between 31 and 34 inclusive. For Djokovic and Nadal to make hay, their best chance is in the space between turning 31 and turning 35. Both won multiple Slams at 31 - they are the first men to do so since Laver in 1969, so they are already breaking "precedent." It's just a question of whether they'll keep doing so at 32/33/34.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
SeeingDusk
Hall of Fame
not only will djokovic reach 17 this year, i think he will win all 4 slams in this calendar year; yes that includes the french open.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
30 AND 11 MONTHS TO SAY EXACTLY.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
He is going to eat the BRICK DUST.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
We have a historical antecedent which (I think) refutes that argument. Djokovic had won 3 Grand Slam matches in a row againt Nadal (WB 2011, USO 2011 and AO 2012), yet Nadal defeated him in 4 sets in the RG 2012 final.
Nadal with 11 RG, a 6-1 H2H over Djokovic at RG, and being the winner of the last 2 editions is still the favorite for the title.
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
First, I hope you realized I was just listing off a small portion of the infinite reasons Djokovic's level could drop and half of them were jokes.
Second, notice how what you call pessimism was correct last year. Djokovic did not sweep the last 3 events of the year, although he seemed like he would. It isn't pessimistic to temper your expectations. My feet are grounded. You're expecting too much of Nole and you'll be sad when he isn't able to do it. On the other hand, I'll be ecstatic if Novak is able to win 3 or more slams this year.
It's your blind faith and quick-to-judge attitude that makes people on this board think Novak fans can't see reason.
ForehandRF
Legend
Nadal should be the favorite at RG, but it looks like he developed lately a mental block when playing against Djokovic similar to Federer when he faced him on clay.If this is the case, I expect a Djokovic victory at the French.Novak was also in Rafa's head in 2011, but this time things might be even more serious. Maybe I'm wrong or maybe not, we will see
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Poor Jack
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
Hey, no cannibalism unless the CYGS happens. If he doesn't want to get eaten, he better start practicing and win that US Open.
CYGS
Legend
Federer did at 31 (almost) while Fedal as a pair did at 32.
However, Federer stayed 17 at 32 also. So if Djokovic reaches 17 at 32, then all of Big 3 are back to square one and Djokodal will have the upper hand over Federer.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
CIearly, what you say is completely different thing than what you said in your OP.
Also, that is IF Djokovic reaches 17 till he is 32, which he probably won't, so your premature cockiness based on the anticipated Djokovic's "advantage" over Federer is just that. Premature.
CYGS
Legend
I said Fedal in the OP, and that Djokovic probably won't is your opinion and mine differs. If there's anyone who's cocky, then it's definitely you who always feel the need to jump in conversations that do not involve you and correct other people.CIearly, what you say is completely different thing than what you said in your OP.
Also, that is IF Djokovic reaches 17 till he is 32, which he probably won't, so your premature cockiness based on the anticipated Djokovic's "advantage" over Federer is just that. Premature.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
The conversation revolves around topics, not people.
As far a I remember Fedal still means Federer and Nadal, and there is a considerable difference between their achievement in that regard.
"Cocky" refers to the assuredness with which you "predict" the supposed achievement, when Djokovic is so far from it.
CYGS
Legend
You're correct. Fedal does mean Federer AND Nadal, so my explanation to the statement in the OP still stands. I don't care about any other petty nonsense. Think what you will.The conversation revolves around topics, not people.
As far a I remember Fedal still means Federer and Nadal, and there is a considerable difference between their achievement in that regard.
"Cocky" refers to the assuredness with which you "predict" the supposed achievement, when Djokovic is so far from it.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
So, if I say that Fedal is the legendary clay court duo, because of their 12 RG titles, I will be correct, and you will not have a thing to say about that?
Noted.
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