At this moment, would you put Djokovic ahead of Nadal?

?

  • Nadal still greater

    Votes: 93 49.5%
  • Djokovic is ahead now

    Votes: 95 50.5%

  • Total voters
    188

Cortana

Hall of Fame
Nadal can never be the overall GOAT. Clay GOAT for sure, but not overall. I mean after 2010 he just won 2 GS outside of RG.

He is just in this slam race because of 1 tournament. Everything else he is lacking. YE#1, WTFs, weeks etc.
 

Spanglish72

Rookie
But how do you think it helps. If you believe as many do here that slam count is all that matters then the Olympics is irrelevant. If you don’t think slams are all that matters what is an Olympic title worth to you? A WtF? 2 WTFs?
It helps because Rafa has an Olympic singles gold medal & Nole doesnt. Nole said himself the Olympics are equivalent to a 5th GS. Nole is making the case for Rafa, not me.

I believe it's strictly about slam totals.

Rafa 18 > Nole 16
 

Spanglish72

Rookie
If 2 slams a year & WTF's were held on clay this whole conversation would be a wrap. Rafa would have 25 slams & 10 WTF's.

Nadal grew up on clay. Nole on hard court.

ITF just needs to rotate surfaces for WTF & Aussie Open to make it fair for ALL players no matter what they grew up playing on as kids.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Hopefully gets corrected this year, if Nads can make it to him...

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
Well Djokovic is 3-5 in US Open finals. He doesn't dominate there as he does at the AO where he's 7-0 in finals.
His record against Federer at US Open is 3-3. Although it should be 5-1 for Federer if not for the chokes during match points. LOL
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Nadal is going to surpass the Slam count just from winning Roland Garros for the next 10 years. Nadal will retire with 22 clay Slams on top of his 6 non-clay Slams for a grand total of 28 Slams. It's interesting that the second best player on clay the past 3 years in Thiem could only win a set against Nadal at RG. And even when he did, he ended up getting breadsticked twice right after.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Nadal can never be the overall GOAT. Clay GOAT for sure, but not overall. I mean after 2010 he just won 2 GS outside of RG.

He is just in this slam race because of 1 tournament. Everything else he is lacking. YE#1, WTFs, weeks etc.
The fact that he continuously stopped both Federer and Djokovic from winning Roland Garros a combined 12 times is legendary in itself.
6-0 against Federer and 6-1 against Djokovic.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Djokovic is 1-6 against Nadal at Roland Garros and 1-2 against Nadal at the US Open. That's interesting.
What's even more interesting is that Djoko is 5-3 in slams vs Nadal outside of RG. Out of those 3 losses, only one came after 2010: USO 2013. If Nadal had continued playing like he did in summer 2013, he would likely be the undisputed GOAT right now. Unfortunately for him, he proceeded instead never to beat Djoko off clay again (9-0 Djoko since USO 2013) and even on clay, it's 4-4 in their last 8 encounters. That, coupled with the last 7 encounters lost vs Fed off clay- including 2 in slams- ( when one of his main claims to fame was owning mighty Fed in the head to head for most of his career) has been a major blow to Nadal's chances in the race for GOATness. For now at least. Not over till the last ball is hit ;)
 
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Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
What's even more interesting is that Djoko is 5-3 in slams vs Nadal outside of RG. Out of those 3 losses, only one came after 2010: USO 2013. If Nadal had continued playing like he did in summer 2013, he would likely be the undisputed GOAT right now. Unfortunately for him, he proceeded instead never to beat Djoko off clay again (9-0 Djoko since USO 2013) and even on clay, it's 4-4 in their last 8 encounters. That, coupled with the last 7 encounters lost vs Fed off clay as well- including 2 in slams- ( when one of his main claims to fame was owning mighty Fed in the head to head for most of his career) has been a major blow to Nadal's chances in the race for GOATness. For now at least. Not over till the last ball is hit ;)
Nadal had a huge lead when they were both young, and I don't see how getting weaker later in his career gets cancelled as less important. Novak still has to catch him in the slam race, which frankly I think he is likely to do. But he's not there yet.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
It is very close.
If Nole gets this year's USO it seals the deal imo.
His dominant years were just so good.
Actually, his dominant years were better. Nadal has never had a season of winning 10 tier 1 (Djoko's 2015, absolute record) or even 8 (Djoko's 2011).
Nadal's maximum is 7 in 2013 (but that didn't include 3 slams + WTF like Djoko's best season- or Fed's 2006 , it was 2 slams + 5 masters).
 
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veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Nadal had a huge lead when they were both young, and I don't see how getting weaker later in his career gets cancelled as less important. Novak still has to catch him in the slam race, which frankly I think he is likely to do. But he's not there yet.
Please read the rest of the thread. Djoko is already ahead of Nadal in tier 1. 5 WTF titles > 2 slams +1 master.
He's also ahead for time at #1 and he's won every tier 1 while Nadal is missing 3. Please read the recent posts as it's all been discussed.
The one thing Nadal still has is # of titles overall.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Please read the rest of the thread. Djoko is already ahead of Nadal in tier 1. 5 WTF titles > 2 slams +1 master.
He's also ahead for time at #1 and he's won every tier 1 while Nadal is missing 3. Please read the recent posts as it's all been discussed.
The one thing Nadal still has is # of titles overall.
Read the thread? Like there is something new here??????????

We'll all debated all these talking points to death.

If you are saying Djokovic is ahead now, on the basis of their complete careers (so far), I repeat: In my view not yet clear.

It's damned close though. Common sense says that Novak is dominating in recent years. That does't settle the issue in my mind. Only what happens at the end of the careers will be definitive. ;)
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
It helps because Rafa has an Olympic singles gold medal & Nole doesnt. Nole said himself the Olympics are equivalent to a 5th GS. Nole is making the case for Rafa, not me.

I believe it's strictly about slam totals.

Rafa 18 > Nole 16
The ATP itself clearly doesn't agree with that glorious status of Olympics when it comes to tennis. They have been wavering between treating it as a "super 500" (counting it as a 500 but giving 700+ points) and leaving it aside as a pure exo (no points at all). Still very cool to win it of course.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Read the thread? Like there is something new here??????????

We'll all debated all these talking points to death.

If you are saying Djokovic is ahead now, on the basis of their complete careers (so far), I repeat: In my view not yet clear.
And your view is based on...?
Based on facts: 16 slams + 5 WTF + 33 masters > 18 slams + 34 masters.
260 weeks at #1 > 196 weeks
All tier 1 won > 11 out of 14 won

But hey do not let facts get in the way of your "view" ;)
 

Sabratha

Talk Tennis Guru
Too all the people that say it’s ALL about slams.
What about this scenario. A player wins the AO 21 times in his career for say age 17-40. But it’s the only event he wins all year every year so he never gets #1 or any WTF and is completely lob sided at slams. Is he still GOAT as he has 21 slams ?
No, but your man-crush will never be GOAT because weak era.
 

DerekNoleFam1

Professional
Actually, his dominant years were better. Nadal has never had a season of winning 10 tier 1 (Djoko's 2015, absolute record) or even 8 (Djoko's 2011).
Nadal's maximum is 7 in 2013 (but that didn't include 3 slams + WTF like Djoko's 2 best seasons- or Fed's 2006 , it was 2 slams + 5 masters).
Nadal's 2013 season was a monster, winning 10 titles, including 2 Slams and 5 Masters.
In fairness he really should have more weeks at #1, mainly due to injuries and layoffs.
But if Nole gets another 3 Slam season this year, it pretty much raps it up for me.
 

Sabratha

Talk Tennis Guru
And your view is based on...?
Based on facts: 16 slams + 5 WTF + 33 masters > 18 slams + 34 masters.
260 weeks at #1 > 196 weeks
All tier 1 won > 11 out of 14 won

But hey do not let facts get in the way of your "view" ;)
Neglecting the fact Novak has had zero competition for 5 years
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
And your view is based on...?
Based on facts: 16 slams + 5 WTF + 33 masters > 18 slams + 34 masters.
260 weeks at #1 > 196 weeks
All tier 1 won > 11 out of 14 won

But hey do not let facts get in the way of your "view" ;)
Good God, I've always defended you as a fair poster, but you're just being a totally arrogant jerk.

I don't believe in a GOAT, have always made that clear. So do me a favor and pick an argument with someone else.

What part of "their careers are not over yet" are you too thick to understand?
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Nadal's 2013 season was a monster, winning 10 titles, including 2 Slams and 5 Masters.
In fairness he really should have more weeks at #1, mainly due to injuries and layoffs.
But if Nole gets another 3 Slam season this year, it pretty much raps it up for me.
Nole has already had 2 seasons with 3 slams. Nadal has only 1 season with 3 slams: 2010 but he won only 3 masters on top that year. Nadal's 2013 may have had 10 titles overall but only 7 of those were tier 1. Djoko's 2015 had 10 TIER 1 titles (3 slams + WTF + 6 masters- an absolute record) and 2011 8 (3 slams + 5 masters)
In terms of dominant seasons, Djoko is ahead without having to add anything at all.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Good God, I've always defended you as a fair poster, but you're just being a totally arrogant jerk.

I don't believe in a GOAT, have always made that clear. So do me a favor and pick an argument with someone else.

What part of "their careers are not over yet" are you too thick to understand?
This thread is not really about GOAT. It's about whether, at this point in time and based on achievements, Djokovic can be ranked ahead of Nadal. If you're not interested in the subject, why are you in this thread? (and no need for ad hominem attacks either. I gave my (objective) arguments for my position )
ETA: of course their careers are not over, I mentioned so myself but the thread is about "so far"...
 
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alex87

Rookie
Djokovic is well ahead of Nadal as results. It's true he's behind in the slam race but tennis is not only about slam...otherwise they should cancel all the rest of the tournaments and ranking too.
 

alexio88

Professional
Not sure about that. Djokovic has only 1 Slam on clay. Nadal has multiple Slams on all 3 surfaces, the only active player to do so.
be sure. it was said about slams not surfaces.. nadal has 6 slams outside RG, djoko has 9 outside AO.. winner: djoko
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
*Wraps.


Murray on his heels? Are you ********? This muppet couldn't beat Federer in majors to save his life, lmao. But usually the braindead freaks pump this no weapons counterpuncher up.


Nadal made 2 QFs between 2015-2017. That's it. Great competition clap clap.

Lemme guess, you are going to say 40 year old "weak era" Federer is great competition?

Novak is a weak era champ. A BIGGER one than Fed.
2016 was Murray's big year when he won W and WTF . Of course he didn't get to play Fed that year but he beat Fed 11 times overall (so yeah he caused problems to Fed at the time he emerged, it took time for Fed to figure out Murray, their first 8 encounters went 6-2 Murray).
Regardless, Murray is much more formidable opposition than Hewitt or Roddick.
 

Sabratha

Talk Tennis Guru
2016 was Murray's big year when he won W and WTF . Of course he didn't get to play Fed that year but he beat Fed 11 times overall.
Regardless, Murray is much more formidable opposition than Hewitt or Roddick.
He wouldn't have beaten Federer any year because he's practically incapable of doing so.

Nah Murray really isn't "more formidable" than Roddick/Hewitt. Luckier perhaps considering he got easy draws for BOTH his Wimbledon wins. He's an overrated mug. Nothing to add about my other points? Explain again how Novak has had "great competition"? Lmfao.
 

Sabratha

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal is less than a year older than Djokovic, so he also benefits from this really weak era. Maybe he is simply not as good as Djokovic to take advantage of it?
Or maybe he peaked earlier than Novak and he's still winning RG because there's virtually nobody capable of beating him there?

Give peak Nadal 2014-2019 and he cleans house every year.
 

Sabratha

Talk Tennis Guru
Again that was not true when Murray broke through, Murray lead 6-2 in their first 8 encounters. Fed managed to figure out Nadal too (off clay) recently. How crazy is that? That doesn't mean Nadal is not a great player. All of them are pretty massive.
Again it WAS and ALWAYS HAS BEEN true in majors. Murray is not a great player.
 

Sabratha

Talk Tennis Guru
A lot more consistent too. Hewitt lasted about 5min !!
Because it's his fault he had 2 surgeries that screwed his footspeed indefinitely?

Murray is a mug who couldn't even beat Federer when he was over 30. Think Roddick/Hewitt would have fared better considering they would have an age advantage. Even with the age advantage Murray still sucked.
 

Pantera

Hall of Fame
You must have difficulty reading. I also wrote "5 mansions". Of course it depends where the mansions are located, but here in the Silicon Valley of California, a standard house is already over a million dollars each. I know I'd rather have 16 million dollars and own 5 mansions with equity of 5 to 10 million dollars. And I'm already being kind to you. In the more expensive areas here, the large houses are going for $6+ million dollars each.
Are you inviting us to yours then for US Open party? It sort of reads like an invite...……..
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Hewitt was much better than Ferrer, but he Murray is a better player than him. Hewitt would not have won a slam if he peaked in 2012 and 2013
If Hewitt had peaked in 2012, he might not have been in the top 10! He's equivalent to Goffin; slight build, no real power or weapon, and his feet do the talking! :sneaky:
 

Sabratha

Talk Tennis Guru
Hewitt was much better than Ferrer, but he Murray is a better player than him. Hewitt would not have won a slam if he peaked in 2012 and 2013
Yep because Murray had the hardest draws ever for his GS wins, lmao. Wimbledon 2013 was a joke.
 

killerboss

New User
Nadal still leads slam head to head but it's definitely close right now. One more slam win against Nadal and I think Djokovic does it. Djokovic is ahead of Federer now as well for me. Better competition in his slams.
 

powerangle

Legend
Are you inviting us to yours then for US Open party? It sort of reads like an invite...……..
Again you have difficulty reading. You like to go off on tangents. I never said I owned any of the “mansions”.

The fact is some will choose “18 million” and some will choose “16 million plus a lot of other valuable items”. It isn’t as cut and dry as you make it out to be.
 

chimneysweep

Semi-Pro
I dont typically like GOAT arguments, but I do hope any Federer fan voting Nadal on this would also have Nadal over Federer if Nadal gets to 21 and 22 even just by RG titles if Federer were still at 20. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.
 

Pantera

Hall of Fame
Again you have difficulty reading. You like to go off on tangents. I never said I owned any of the “mansions”.

The fact is some will choose “18 million” and some will choose “16 million plus a lot of other valuable items”. It isn’t as cut and dry as you make it out to be.
No it is very cut and dried and your point was not well made.
 
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