At which point did you feel Djokovic's massive decline was irreversible?

InsideOut900

InsideOut900

Legend
For me it was the WTF final in 2016.
If anything I expected him to lose Wimbledon as part of a cooldown process.

Then I learnt he was dealing with shoulder problems, so playing rather subpar during NA swing was to be expected.

Shanghai and Bercy losses attributed to rustiness.

Then WTF came around and Djokovic had an excellent walkthrough up until the final.

Staining his perfect record in WTF finals with a poor performance has made me realize Djokovic is not into it anymore.
He can't mentally handle big occasions even when being the favourite.

Anyone else feeling more confident and giving Djokovic more time before finally admiting the extent of his decline?
 
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Feather

Feather

Legend
Disagree with the irreversible opinion.

I am sure he will come back to Major winning form. At least by US Open and he will win Majors too. Many wrote off Roger Federer and Rafa Nadal, and what have they done? Likewise, Novak Djokovic will be back.
 
MeatTornado

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
It's still not irreversible. Look, aging can't be avoided. His body will never again be the elastic Ultron that it was when he was 27, that's a fact. The question is, how does he handle that? Right now he's still trying to play like he used to, but the body obviously isn't capable of it. And it's leaving him super frustrated on court.

Federer dealt with it by switching his racket and hiring Edberg. Rafa has become noticeably more aggressive on both his serve and groundstrokes, even on clay. Novak (once his arm is actually 100% again) will need to figure out how to adapt to his new circumstances. It's insanely hard, but not impossible.

(btw, way to give zero credit to Murray, who was on fire during the indoor season that year)
 
BeatlesFan

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Feather said:
Many wrote off Roger Federer and Rafa Nadal, and what have they done? Likewise, Novak Djokovic will be back.
Click to expand...

Fed came back to win a slam and then 2 successive Masters 1000's. Rafa returned and made it to a slam final, a third round in a Masters and then a final in a Masters. Both beat quality players, showed little or no signs of physical fatigue and played well (except Rafa at IW).

Djoker's return hasn't been anything like this. He lost to a guy ranked outside the top 50 at his pet slam and then just lost to a journeyman qualifier while looking as if he weighs literally 140 pounds.

Massive, massive difference.
 
D

Deleted member 742196

Guest
The guy below said it best:

kishnabe said:
Cue Federer will not win a slam 2013 and 2016 threads.

Never count out the most boring player of all Time. Djokovic will metronome his way to another weak era slam.
Click to expand...
 
N

NGM

Hall of Fame
I always think about Djokovic as Federer 0.8. A lesser version but not much. So I expect him to comeback at sometime and win slams again. But he needs to do things right.

The most crucial thing is NOT his form. He is a great player so he can take back form anytime but thing is he lacks a supportive team.

Even in his worst days, Federer still kept his fitness coach, his supporting coach and friend, he only changed his main coach. His fundamental was always strong. It helped his comeback tremendously. In contrast of Federer, Djokovic sacks his entire team and his coach. His current coach is a big mouth and coaching talentless. That still doesn’t mention the fact that Agassi is not around him all the time. So he is basically alone. That’s problem for him.
 
EloQuent

EloQuent

Legend
Also regarding the comps to Federer - it's just no comparison really. Djokovic is, timeline wise, around the same aged 30 slump that hit Federer in 2013.

But Federer never dropped out of the top 10 in 2013. And even as he lost to other decent players, he was working on his game and changed rackets. Then in 14-15 he got back to a top 3 level.

Even if Djokovic stops losing to nobodies, I just don't see him getting higher than a top 10 level. He's getting older, he's less fit, he's rusty.
 
D

Deleted member 742196

Guest
NGM said:
I always think about Djokovic as Federer 0.8. A lesser version but not much. So I expect him to comeback at sometime and win slams again.But he needs to do things right.

The most crucial thing is NOT his form. He is a great player so he can take back form anytime but thing is he lacks a supportive team.

Even in his worst days, Federer still kept his fitness coach, his supporting coach and friend, he only changed his main coach. His fundamental was always strong. It helped his comeback tremendously. In contrast of Federer, Djokovic sacks his entire team and his coach. His current coach is a big mouth and coaching talentless. That still doesn’t mention the fact that Agassi is not around him all the time. So he is basically alone. That’s problem for him.
Click to expand...

It’s not a simple thing getting into the mindset of a champion, each of these guys - Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic - has their own unique motivation to do whatever it is they do.

Fed seems to have found the right mindset and perspective to stay motivated for a late career run.

Some article a few months back was quite insightful on the Fed losses endured 2012-2015, he bounces back without too much damage.

A guy like Borg couldn’t take it, Federer has the tenacity to channel it. Let’s see how Djokovic responds in this phase of his career.

Interesting times.
 
MasterZeb

MasterZeb

Hall of Fame
Acapulco for me. I was hopeing perhaps a new season would refresh his mind, and Australia vs istomin just felt like an upset. Didn't really confirm actual form
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
MeatTornado said:
It's still not irreversible. Look, aging can't be avoided. His body will never again be the elastic Ultron that it was when he was 27, that's a fact. The question is, how does he handle that? Right now he's still trying to play like he used to, but the body obviously isn't capable of it. And it's leaving him super frustrated on court.

Federer dealt with it by switching his racket and hiring Edberg. Rafa has become noticeably more aggressive on both his serve and groundstrokes, even on clay. Novak (once his arm is actually 100% again) will need to figure out how to adapt to his new circumstances. It's insanely hard, but not impossible.

(btw, way to give zero credit to Murray, who was on fire during the indoor season that year)
Click to expand...

Well said!
 
Jackuar

Jackuar

Hall of Fame
For me Wimbledon 2016 was shocking after the non cygs. But right around that time the infidelity reports started doing rounds again linking them, the loss and the earlier reports and that's when I thought this is going to be irreversible. If someone doesn't agree with me, I can only say in words how much it impacts having a partner with you. A good one impacts positively and more importantly, its a much worse situation to have a negative scenario in life and it's gonna throw any career, job, profession, off the rails no matter how best you are. A broken glass vase glued will never be like new. I hope it's all sorted out by now but I don't think he's dominating again. May be couple of slams with easy draws. And with the kind of psychological advantage which the big 3 hold between each other, it's the mental peace that's the most important weapon. Novak has lost it once. I pray he gets a good share of it back.
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
LOL. You guys are so quick to dismiss Djok

His game is very much there . He has played 4 matches over last 9 months and he is rusty

Give him 2 months back when healthy and he can be back on top 3.Remember that Cilic and Dmitrov are holding that spot now with 4000 points
 
rushhr

rushhr

Rookie
he needs to work with some russian "nutritionists"
guaranteed he'll catapult to year end #1

but seriously, hope he regains his form/adapts. tennis was never super exciting but is pretty sad without him. we're left placing our expectations on nascent 18year olds, etc...
 
ibbi

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
When he said that he stopped caring about tennis after Roland Garros, and then he and Becker split up and both basically seemed to indirectly suggest it was because Novak's priorities lay elsewhere.
 
Sudacafan

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
InsideOut900 said:
At which point did you feel Djokovic's massive decline was irreversible?
For me it was the WTF final in 2016.
If anything I expected him to lose Wimbledon as part of a cooldown process.

Then I learnt he was dealing with shoulder problems, so playing rather subpar during NA swing was to be expected.

Shanghai and Bercy losses attributed to rustiness.

Then WTF came around and Djokovic had an excellent walkthrough up until the final.

Staining his perfect record in WTF finals with a poor performance has made me realize Djokovic is not into it anymore.
He can't mentally handle big occasions even when being the favourite.

Anyone else feeling more confident and giving Djokovic more time before finally admiting the extent of his decline?
Click to expand...
This is called “Begging the question”, a.k.a. petitio principii: One of the fallacies types, which basically implies providing what is essentially the conclusion of the argument as a premise.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
InsideOut900 said:
For me it was the WTF final in 2016.
If anything I expected him to lose Wimbledon as part of a cooldown process.

Then I learnt he was dealing with shoulder problems, so playing rather subpar during NA swing was to be expected.

Shanghai and Bercy losses attributed to rustiness.

Then WTF came around and Djokovic had an excellent walkthrough up until the final.

Staining his perfect record in WTF finals with a poor performance has made me realize Djokovic is not into it anymore.
He can't mentally handle big occasions even when being the favourite.

Anyone else feeling more confident and giving Djokovic more time before finally admiting the extent of his decline?
Click to expand...
I don't think he's finished. Might have a Pete Sampras moment in him yet.
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
InsideOut900 said:
For me it was the WTF final in 2016.
If anything I expected him to lose Wimbledon as part of a cooldown process.

Then I learnt he was dealing with shoulder problems, so playing rather subpar during NA swing was to be expected.

Shanghai and Bercy losses attributed to rustiness.

Then WTF came around and Djokovic had an excellent walkthrough up until the final.

Staining his perfect record in WTF finals with a poor performance has made me realize Djokovic is not into it anymore.
He can't mentally handle big occasions even when being the favourite.

Anyone else feeling more confident and giving Djokovic more time before finally admiting the extent of his decline?
Click to expand...

I know people often make funny of him but Murray isn't chopped liver, losing to him doesn't mean you're past it. If anything, Novak prevailed in their very high quality Doha match like one month (?) later.

Furthemore I don't think it's irreversible. Just as quickly as he fell if he has a period where he's healty and regains confidence he can become a contender for big titles again in a flash.

If you mean decline from his 2011 and 2015 days. that one is permanent. No one plays their best tennis in their 30s despite the number of TTWers parroting media heads.
 
Plamen1234

Plamen1234

Hall of Fame
People were expecting too much from him.They saw Federer doing the comeback and they thought Djokovic will do the same but there is one difference Federer is the best tennis player of all time,Djokovic is not even close to him.Now I dont think he is over.He will still win 2 GS I think
 
QuadCam

QuadCam

Professional
I think he's going to retire. Looks like he has the motivation and passion, but the drive and fire to be the best is gone. He's been at the pinnacle and knows how hard it was to get there. He's never been THE popular champ, not too the levels of Fed and Rafa. He'll never achieve that. I think that hurts him deeply, too.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
QuadCam said:
I think he's going to retire. Looks like he has the motivation and passion, but the drive and fire to be the best is gone. He's been at the pinnacle and knows how hard it was to get there. He's never been THE popular champ, not too the levels of Fed and Rafa. He'll never achieve that. I think that hurts him deeply, too.
Click to expand...

As much as I'd love to throw confetti and agree, I doubt Ultron is done.
 
Nadalgaenger

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Maybe the same time that I realized that Fed’s decline was irreversible in 2013 and Nadal’s decline was irreversible in 2015. Oh wait...

It looks REALLY bad now but I still think that he’ll get his act together and start kicking *** soon on court.
 
mavsman149

mavsman149

Hall of Fame
Yesterday :(

I had such high hopes when he was serving for the first set.....to lose a deciding set 6-1 to Taro Daniel is just awful.
 
Shaolin

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
I'm no big fan of Nole but his decline is def not irreversible. He has plenty of good years if he can get his mind right and his body is ok.
 
Meles

Meles

Bionic Poster
InsideOut900 said:
For me it was the WTF final in 2016.
If anything I expected him to lose Wimbledon as part of a cooldown process.

Then I learnt he was dealing with shoulder problems, so playing rather subpar during NA swing was to be expected.

Shanghai and Bercy losses attributed to rustiness.

Then WTF came around and Djokovic had an excellent walkthrough up until the final.

Staining his perfect record in WTF finals with a poor performance has made me realize Djokovic is not into it anymore.
He can't mentally handle big occasions even when being the favourite.

Anyone else feeling more confident and giving Djokovic more time before finally admiting the extent of his decline?
Click to expand...
Once the elbow story was finally revealed his decline made sense. This loss to Taro Daniels has me thinking the decline may be irreversible:
1. Serve speed still low in this match
2. Djokovic clearly not working hard enough off the court and looked really shaky in rallies for the first time; much worse than the Chung match.

Really a shocking loss to Daniels. Is this the most cringeworthy decline in a long time? Wilander really fell off after 1988 and this looks the same.:confused:
 
Meles

Meles

Bionic Poster
tennisaddict said:
LOL. You guys are so quick to dismiss Djok

His game is very much there . He has played 4 matches over last 9 months and he is rusty

Give him 2 months back when healthy and he can be back on top 3.Remember that Cilic and Dmitrov are holding that spot now with 4000 points
Click to expand...
Losing 6-1 to Taro Daniels in the 3rd set just not a pretty picture.:confused:
 
Meles

Meles

Bionic Poster
Sudacafan said:
This is called “Begging the question”, a.k.a. petitio principii: One of the fallacies types, which basically implies providing what is essentially the conclusion of the argument as a premise.
Click to expand...
Brilliant trolling by the OP.:D
 
Im(moral) Winner

Im(moral) Winner

G.O.A.T.
Meles said:
Once the elbow story was finally revealed his decline made sense. This loss to Taro Daniels has me thinking the decline may be irreversible:
1. Serve speed still low in this match
2. Djokovic clearly not working hard enough off the court and looked really shaky in rallies for the first time; much worse than the Chung match.

Really a shocking loss to Daniels. Is this the most cringeworthy decline in a long time? Wilander really fell off after 1988 and this looks the same.:confused:
Click to expand...
He served faster than 2016 according to the match graphics...the game and players evolve...TARO is a great player...he took a set and was up a break in the second set against RAFA at the USO 2017...would have won that If it wasn't for the 5 setter in the first round...
 
cknobman

cknobman

Legend
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