At Wimbledon prime for prime Becker vs Edberg Who wins?

SamprasisGOAT

Professional
If they played 10 times who wins?

Prime for prime.

It’s obviously 2-1 edberg but I don’t think that’s the right out come.

I’ll go 7-3 Becker overall.

I just think boris is to good for edberg.

I love both players by the way.

It will be interesting what my fellow former pro player forum posters come up with.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Their grasscourt rivalry is very curious. They met on grass 6 times and Becker won 4 of them, 3 at Queen's and 1 at Wimbledon whilst Edberg won 2 out of their 3 Wimbledon finals ie. where it mattered most.

In short, Becker dominated Edberg on grass elsewhere but was much more evenly matched with him at Wimbledon. In 10 hypothetical encounters at Wimbledon I might give the edge to Becker as I think he was probably the more natural grass-courter but it's really difficult to say.
 

California

Semi-Pro
I'd go 7 to 3 Edberg. Becker's main advantage over Edberg is the serve. Is that enough on grass to give him the edge? Edberg is the far better mover, better vollier, better backhand. Boris has the better forehand. Peak for peak I give Edberg the edge, when he is clicking he is very tough to beat.

Becker has a much better edge over Stefan indoors. Fast court, no sun, no wind, big advantage Becker. Love both players by the way...
 

BTURNER

Legend
What struck me about those grass meetings that I saw, was that Edberg played them with a cooler head, while Boris let Edberg and/or the circumstances get under his skin. Thus those moments when Boris howled (yelled) those German word in frustration at his own play, as the pressure built in the final sets and he either double faulted or erred on a volley. I also think those Aussie grass final wins tell us something about how he would have handled any hotter drier days ,as well as the wetter damper ones at Wimbledon. I think Edberg was the better mover and had better reflexes, while Becker could 'muscle' the ball better with that strong arm and wrist. I give Edberg the continued edge if he can keep things close. Edberg really had a 'never give up'/ stay positive attitude against Boris, even if he was down a set and a break, which was very hard to manage against that huge serve.
 
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timnz

Legend
I’d pick 7-3 for Becker. Becker dominates in the H2H 25-10 against Edberg - many which were on faster surfaces
 

JasonZ

Semi-Pro
Becker said the 1990 wimby final loss is his most bitter loss.

He was the superior player to Edberg. But lost 2 of the 3 of their most important matches
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
I'd say 5-5, as boring as that sounds. If someone has to have the lead, I's say Edberg 6-4. True, Becker has the big H2H overall, but as someone pointed out, there's a ton of indoor wins in that record and Becker was beast on indoor fast courts. We're not considering "overall," and we're not even considering "just grass". We're talking about one venue - Wimbledon grass. And, we have real results to consider. Edberg won 2 of 3 actual Wimbledon finals. Peak this, peak that, it never ends. What was going to magically change if they would have met more at Wimbledon? You can look at Becker's 25-10 record and say "Wimbledon results should have been different," but why exactly? Becker actually achieved that 25-10 H2H but still has that 1-2 Wimbledon record. Isn't that enough to conclude that the venue, surface, conditions, occasion, whatever resulted in Becker and Edberg being on more equal terms in that narrow context.
 
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bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Becker said the 1990 wimby final loss is his most bitter loss.

He was the superior player to Edberg. But lost 2 of the 3 of their most important matches
On the "biggest" stages, they're fairly even - though obviously people can debate what the biggest stages are. Edberg leads 3-1 in Slams (still can't believe they only played 4 times in Slams); Plus, Edberg beat him in the final of the 1989 Masters (now the ATP finals). But, Becker took him to the woodshed in Davis Cup a couple of times (when Davis Cup was a big deal and all the top players were playing).
 

California

Semi-Pro
Most of which were indoors, though
I was just going to add that... I think it was 14 to 4 on indoor carpet for Becker which has little relevance for grass play. This is a major contributor to his overall head to head lead and its one specific surface that doesn't even exist on the tour any longer. Plus Becker got about 4 wins after 1993 when Edberg was more or less done from the top of the game.
 

andreh

Professional
On the "biggest" stages, they're fairly even - though obviously people can debate what the biggest stages are. Edberg leads 3-1 in Slams (still can't believe they only played 4 times in Slams); Plus, Edberg beat him in the final of the 1989 Masters (now the ATP finals). But, Becker took him to the woodshed in Davis Cup a couple of times (when Davis Cup was a big deal and all the top players were playing).
Both those easy Davis Cup wins for Becker was indoors, btw. One was indoor clay. There certainly was something special to Becker's game when there was no sun or wind.
 
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bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Both those easy indoor Davis Cup wins for Becker was indoors, btw. One was indoor clay. There certainly wad something special to Becker's game when there was no sun or wind.
That's why I'm sort of surprised at the 89 Masters win 4-6, 7-6, 6-3, 6-1 for Edberg over Becker - indoors. Edberg had lost both the French and Wimbledon finals that year. Becker had won Wimbledon and the USO finals. Maybe one of Edberg's best wins over Becker.
 

andreh

Professional
That's why I'm sort of surprised at the 89 Masters win 4-6, 7-6, 6-3, 6-1 for Edberg over Becker - indoors. Edberg had lost both the French and Wimbledon finals that year. Becker had won Wimbledon and the USO finals. Maybe one of Edberg's best wins over Becker.
The 89 Master was one of Edberg's best wins, beating both Lendl and Becker back to back after a year where he lost many finals.
 
What is there to even speculate on. We already saw a series of prime to prime between them at Wimbledon from 88-90. Edberg won 2 out of 3.
 

timnz

Legend
What is there to even speculate on. We already saw a series of prime to prime between them at Wimbledon from 88-90. Edberg won 2 out of 3.
Well there is the matter of the other matches they played which Edberg only won 7 others and Becker won 23 others
 

Thetouch

Professional
I would say Becker wins 7:3, if not more, if we really have them both face in their best forms. He actually threw away both his WB finals in 1988 and 1990. I guess in 1988 the rain break benefitted Edberg a little, so he could comeback but in the end he deserved both victories, so no excuses. 1990 was different though, Becker should have never lost that match the way he did, probably not even be 0:2 in sets down in the first place. I think their 1989 encounter was more significant as to what Becker was capable when he was on, while Edberg, despite his 2 victories, could never beat Becker straight. I also don't think the 1989 Becker was a better player than the 1995/96 Becker, so therefore I don't see Edberg dominating Becker at all since Becker improved a little in the 90s, despite being slower, while Edberg just kept his level or declined later. In the end Becker has 7 Wimbledon finals and 1 more title than Edberg and has probably beaten tougher players than Edberg in WB too (2-3 x Cash, Stich, 3x Lendl, Ivanisevic, Mecir, Leconte, Agassi).
 

andreh

Professional
He actually threw away both his WB finals in 1988 and 1990.
Hehe, this is what disappointed Becker fans have vehemently maintained since July 1990. These boards are full of entertaining excuses for why Becker lost those finals. Anything goes, except of course that Edberg was better.
 
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Thetouch

Professional
Hehe, this is what disappointed Becker fans have vehemently maintained since July 1990. These boards are full of entertaining excuses for why Becker lost those finals. Anything goes, except if course that Edberg was better.
Well Edberg was better in those matches. It's just that it was so untypical for Becker to lose the 1990 final when he was up a break in the 5th.
 
I'd say 5-5, as boring as that sounds. If someone has to have the lead, I's say Edberg 6-4. True, Becker has the big H2H overall, but as someone pointed out, there's a ton of indoor wins in that record and Becker was beast on indoor fast courts. We're not considering "overall," and we're not even considering "just grass". We're talking about one venue - Wimbledon grass. And, we have real results to consider. Edberg won 2 of 3 actual Wimbledon finals. Peak this, peak that, it never ends. What was going to magically change if they would have met more at Wimbledon? You can look at Becker's 25-10 record and say "Wimbledon results should have been different," but why exactly? Becker actually achieved that 25-10 H2H but still has that 1-2 Wimbledon record. Isn't that enough to conclude that the venue, surface, conditions, occasion, whatever resulted in Becker and Edberg being on more equal terms in that narrow context.
This thread is TT in a microcosm. You have three back to back finals between two players in their prime and STILL, the actual result is supposed to be wrong, lol. And it's not even like Edberg was overall so inferior to Becker, he too won 6 slams and he did better than Becker at RG.
 

Thetouch

Professional
This thread is TT in a microcosm. You have three back to back finals between two players in their prime and STILL, the actual result is supposed to be wrong, lol. And it's not even like Edberg was overall so inferior to Becker, he too won 6 slams and he did better than Becker at RG.
I actually think they were pretty even in RG. lol

Funny enough for a guy that hated playing on clay Becker has good RG stats overall imo, while playing less times than Edberg. Three semi finals, 1 QF and one 4th round as opposed to 1 final, 3 QF and two 4th rounds of Edbergs
 

Thetouch

Professional
There was a precident, though. The exact same thing happened in their 89 RG semi.
Right. But it wasn't as close as in WB. I think that RG 5th set was maybe the only time Becker ran out of gas or just reached his limits on clay. Edberg still won that set easily if I am not mistaken. Edberg has a record of his own for being a break down in the 5th and still winning matches as he did twice against Becker and three times in the US Open 1992. One would think at times he struggled with pressure and then he came back and won. Truly an amazing warrior.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
This thread is TT in a microcosm. You have three back to back finals between two players in their prime and STILL, the actual result is supposed to be wrong, lol. And it's not even like Edberg was overall so inferior to Becker, he too won 6 slams and he did better than Becker at RG.
Yeah, exactly. This thread is a bit pointless because we don’t need to speculate on hypotheticals. These matches actually happened and Edberg came out on top.
 
I actually think they were pretty even in RG. lol

Funny enough for a guy that hated playing on clay Becker has good RG stats overall imo, while playing less times than Edberg. Three semi finals, 1 QF and one 4th round as opposed to 1 final, 3 QF and two 4th rounds of Edbergs
Will have to disagree there. A final is a final. Edberg lost a tough one too, didn't get routed. Also happened to beat Becker that same tournament. So will take Edberg at RG.
 

California

Semi-Pro
Yet, completely different to play on. No sun, no wind, no bad bounces, no bad footing.
Will have to disagree there. A final is a final. Edberg lost a tough one too, didn't get routed. Also happened to beat Becker that same tournament. So will take Edberg at RG.
+ 1 on both of these posts. These Becker fans... cmon, you have actual results and you still try to twist them? Becker was much better on indoor carpet. I conceded that earlier, but outside of that I will take Edberg. 2 to 1 at Wimbledon in finals, 1 and 0 at RG in the semifinals. Becker was a great player, I am a big fan of his but he was great in specific circumstances. Fast courts were he was the aggressor. Excellent indoors, not great if he had to play from the back of the court or where someone took the net before him..
 

Thetouch

Professional
Will have to disagree there. A final is a final. Edberg lost a tough one too, didn't get routed. Also happened to beat Becker that same tournament. So will take Edberg at RG.
I didn't suggest Becker was the better player on clay, I said for a guy who only played 9 FO tournaments and didn't like playing on clay he had pretty comparable results to those of Edberg.
 

jrepac

Hall of Fame
I think it's close; could easily be 5 to 5. Surface matters too. Becker is more explosive on serve and in the back court, but overall, I think Edberg is the better S&V player. He does have the cooler head, of the two, but can also get a bit downbeat when things go wrong.
 

barone

New User
I would say Becker wins 7:3, if not more, if we really have them both face in their best forms. He actually threw away both his WB finals in 1988 and 1990. I guess in 1988 the rain break benefitted Edberg a little, so he could comeback but in the end he deserved both victories, so no excuses. 1990 was different though, Becker should have never lost that match the way he did, probably not even be 0:2 in sets down in the first place. I think their 1989 encounter was more significant as to what Becker was capable when he was on, while Edberg, despite his 2 victories, could never beat Becker straight. I also don't think the 1989 Becker was a better player than the 1995/96 Becker, so therefore I don't see Edberg dominating Becker at all since Becker improved a little in the 90s, despite being slower, while Edberg just kept his level or declined later. In the end Becker has 7 Wimbledon finals and 1 more title than Edberg and has probably beaten tougher players than Edberg in WB too (2-3 x Cash, Stich, 3x Lendl, Ivanisevic, Mecir, Leconte, Agassi).
Shouldnt he be down 0-2? 2-6, 2-6 ok, smile
 

Rui Lopes

Rookie
In a five setter , edberg win´s more , period. Better movement , better stamina, better mindset...On a three setter , do yourself a favour and toss a coin. Stop stressing your head to find the right answer...
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
Their grasscourt rivalry is very curious. They met on grass 6 times and Becker won 4 of them, 3 at Queen's and 1 at Wimbledon whilst Edberg won 2 out of their 3 Wimbledon finals ie. where it mattered most.
Alas! Reality is a cruel master.
 
This thread is TT in a microcosm. You have three back to back finals between two players in their prime and STILL, the actual result is supposed to be wrong, lol. And it's not even like Edberg was overall so inferior to Becker, he too won 6 slams and he did better than Becker at RG.
It's not "wrong", just doesn't reflect their base levels. I like Edberg, don't see what's wrong with admitting Becker was generally the better player in almost any conditions. It speaks great of Edberg's mentality and tactical prowess that he was able to find a way to upset Becker in multiple big matches. RG is a good example too, Becker was the better player overall with 4 semis to Edberg's 1 but that lone semi ended in a win over Becker himself, and he was close to taking the title later as well.
 

Rui Lopes

Rookie
It's not "wrong", just doesn't reflect their base levels. I like Edberg, don't see what's wrong with admitting Becker was generally the better player in almost any conditions. It speaks great of Edberg's mentality and tactical prowess that he was able to find a way to upset Becker in multiple big matches. RG is a good example too, Becker was the better player overall with 4 semis to Edberg's 1 but that lone semi ended in a win over Becker himself, and he was close to taking the title later as well.
You seem to be forgetting that for a long part in the 80´s the Australian open was played on grass...Just like Wimbledon , only a bit hotter...Take a look at what both players did in that tournament whyle it was played on grass, and then come back and tell me that Edberg only has one semi...
 

Rui Lopes

Rookie
If you count their Wimbledon record and with the Australian Open record when it was played on grass , than you know you can´t say that Becker was the best grass court player...
 

California

Semi-Pro
Becker was better on indoor carpet. That accounts for the bulk of his head to head advantage over Edberg. He was great indoors for certain with no wind or sun. One of the best indoor players I have ever seen. Edberg with his movement advantage could play better on a variety of surfaces. He won a couple of clay court titles and played the final at RG, Becker did neither. Both ATG players, great rivalry to watch.
 

Rui Lopes

Rookie
Yep...Becker was a power player , even thought he had a lot of finess on the net too. His main weapons were the serve and the forehand , really powerfull strokes...
Edberg was all finess. That´s why he gave up tennis too soon , when the courts and the balls and the strings in the mid 90´s came to favour the power tennis...Becker still had success by that time...
So yes, on faster courts Becker had a good advantage over Edberg , but in their prime there were a lot more than fast courts...
 

Sardines

Professional
I remember those 88 and 89 matches very well, especially in 88, my 1st Jr Wimbledon! I clearly remember the conditions were cloudy and colder and thus slower the last few days, and in the semis, Edberg came back from 0-2 down against Mecir in a wonderful spanking by Mecir for 2.5 sets, then Edberg somehow just held his nerve for Mecir to tire and get nervous.
The finals were cloudy too, but Becker started big and fast, winning that first set. Edberg kept calm and stayed with Becker into the tb, where he won with his backhand returns, especially the 1st serve bunt return which set up his volley. Becker served to Edberg's forehand and his mishit the return but anticipated well and ripped the passing shot with confidence. Becker just lost his "I've got this!" composure immediately. That tiebreak is still etched in my mind as my coach was telling how his backhand side won that tiebreak, with the help of 4 big 1st serves. He missed 2 forehand returns entirely.
In 89, the sun was out and it was a little faster. Edberg also changed his service motion from the year before, abbreviating his take back a little, from his injury in the AO against Lendl. Becker just blasted everything coming out of the gates and made Edberg look like a passenger in that bagel 1st set. Edberg had 3 set points in the 2nd at 6-5 but lost it , and it was a blowout in the breaker.
90 I was there in center court as a graduation present, and I remember Becker playing like he was drugged for 2 sets, that's what the nice lady in front of me said! :D Then he started playing better and just pushed Edberg back. Only late in the 5th set did Edberg finally show up. It wasn't the best tennis by either, but just who would be more gutsy. I'm pretty sure Becker thought he had it in the bag in the 5th.
Seems to me, Edberg does better in 5 set matches on grass. Becker steamrolls very well. Edberg edges and comes back well against Becker usually.
 

SamprasisGOAT

Professional
I remember those 88 and 89 matches very well, especially in 88, my 1st Jr Wimbledon! I clearly remember the conditions were cloudy and colder and thus slower the last few days, and in the semis, Edberg came back from 0-2 down against Mecir in a wonderful spanking by Mecir for 2.5 sets, then Edberg somehow just held his nerve for Mecir to tire and get nervous.
The finals were cloudy too, but Becker started big and fast, winning that first set. Edberg kept calm and stayed with Becker into the tb, where he won with his backhand returns, especially the 1st serve bunt return which set up his volley. Becker served to Edberg's forehand and his mishit the return but anticipated well and ripped the passing shot with confidence. Becker just lost his "I've got this!" composure immediately. That tiebreak is still etched in my mind as my coach was telling how his backhand side won that tiebreak, with the help of 4 big 1st serves. He missed 2 forehand returns entirely.
In 89, the sun was out and it was a little faster. Edberg also changed his service motion from the year before, abbreviating his take back a little, from his injury in the AO against Lendl. Becker just blasted everything coming out of the gates and made Edberg look like a passenger in that bagel 1st set. Edberg had 3 set points in the 2nd at 6-5 but lost it , and it was a blowout in the breaker.
90 I was there in center court as a graduation present, and I remember Becker playing like he was drugged for 2 sets, that's what the nice lady in front of me said! :D Then he started playing better and just pushed Edberg back. Only late in the 5th set did Edberg finally show up. It wasn't the best tennis by either, but just who would be more gutsy. I'm pretty sure Becker thought he had it in the bag in the 5th.
Seems to me, Edberg does better in 5 set matches on grass. Becker steamrolls very well. Edberg edges and comes back well against Becker usually.
Nice post.
 

Rui Lopes

Rookie
I remember those 88 and 89 matches very well, especially in 88, my 1st Jr Wimbledon! I clearly remember the conditions were cloudy and colder and thus slower the last few days, and in the semis, Edberg came back from 0-2 down against Mecir in a wonderful spanking by Mecir for 2.5 sets, then Edberg somehow just held his nerve for Mecir to tire and get nervous.
The finals were cloudy too, but Becker started big and fast, winning that first set. Edberg kept calm and stayed with Becker into the tb, where he won with his backhand returns, especially the 1st serve bunt return which set up his volley. Becker served to Edberg's forehand and his mishit the return but anticipated well and ripped the passing shot with confidence. Becker just lost his "I've got this!" composure immediately. That tiebreak is still etched in my mind as my coach was telling how his backhand side won that tiebreak, with the help of 4 big 1st serves. He missed 2 forehand returns entirely.
In 89, the sun was out and it was a little faster. Edberg also changed his service motion from the year before, abbreviating his take back a little, from his injury in the AO against Lendl. Becker just blasted everything coming out of the gates and made Edberg look like a passenger in that bagel 1st set. Edberg had 3 set points in the 2nd at 6-5 but lost it , and it was a blowout in the breaker.
90 I was there in center court as a graduation present, and I remember Becker playing like he was drugged for 2 sets, that's what the nice lady in front of me said! :D Then he started playing better and just pushed Edberg back. Only late in the 5th set did Edberg finally show up. It wasn't the best tennis by either, but just who would be more gutsy. I'm pretty sure Becker thought he had it in the bag in the 5th.
Seems to me, Edberg does better in 5 set matches on grass. Becker steamrolls very well. Edberg edges and comes back well against Becker usually.
I´ve said that in my previous posts...Just used less words because i didn´t see it in person like you...Lucky you man...
 
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