ATP 250 Buenos Aires Semi-final: Nadal vs Thiem (Who's the King of Clay)

Who wins?

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
Emperor of Belgrade said:
Thanks.
Nadal missed a good opportunity here. He better take every minor clay event very seriously if he wants to get to #50.
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it's a nice number but passing Vilas means nothing....ask Borg...he was 14-1 vs. Vilas....9-0 on clay....and we know the story of the French for Nadal and Borg, vs. Vilas' record
 
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insideguy said:
The most depressing movie ever isnt even as depressing as rafas tennis now. He needs a steam gun like the hitman in that movie.
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Tennis is not life and death. This is not that depressing at all. He won 14 slams and may retire by end of 2017, that is good enough. Not everyone can have Fed like career.
 
cc0509 said:
It's definitely not funny. Even if you hate him you have to have some degree of empathy for him these days.
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Indeed...

It is sad to see a player of his caliber in such state. For the sake of competition, even if i dislike him, i hope he gets his stuff together
 
Emperor of Belgrade said:
Empathy? The guy won so much before and won more matches that were on his opponents' racket than any other player. It is not funny, but he was asking for it with his game. He shouldn't be getting much empathy really.
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Empathy is not about should or shouldn't, it's about can or can't. Some people can understand (at least to some extent) what Nadal is going through meaning that they empathise with him. Other people, like yourself, can't. It's as simple as that.
 
Meles said:
Exactly. The butt hurt Nadal fans and Rafa detractors need to check their id.10t files. Rafa had one match point which Thiem snuffed out. The level of both players through out the match was extremely high and Rafa's game is getting stronger (best match of the week easily for Rafa.) Thiem should get all the credit including applying enough pressure throughout the match to induce the Rafa choke in the tiebreaker. (And yes butt hurt fans and detractors that was horrible, starting out with Nadal DF and then downhill til 6-1.)

In short, buck up true believers (@MichaelNadal , @JohnnyMac Fan! , @La Grande , @Levi_Ackerman). This is just the beginning of the clay season and now Bull has a new adversary to stoke the competive fires.

Thiem has dethroned the King of Clay and now reigns. Can't wait for the final!
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Erm, didn't Fognini beat him 2 times on clay last year. So thiem did not dethrone anything. That said, I get your point.

I just about gave up with Rafa. He is a bone head.
 
Nadal looked poor all tournament. 2016 appears to be a repeat of 2015. I am not optimistic.

However a really nice scalp for Thiem. Hopefully this will propel him forwards with a lot of slow court tennis coming up between now and the FO.
 
The Fedfather said:
Empathy is not about should or shouldn't, it's about can or can't. Some people can understand (at least to some extent) what Nadal is going through meaning that they empathise with him. Other people, like yourself, can't. It's as simple as that.
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What he is going through, all other players have either gone or will go through. My point is there is no reason to single him out.
 
Meles said:
Thiem going for 4th clay title in last year. No comparison to Fognini.
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Regardless, Theim then should have beaten him then. Now Nadal is a shadow of himself. hardly anything to boast. But because Fognini beat him last year, still gets the credit over Thiem. Sorry mate. Still sucks for Nadal fans anyway.
 
vive le beau jeu ! said:
... is it really mandatory ? :oops:
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Maybe not for you. I think you are the exception.
smiley-laughing002.gif
 
nachiket nolefam said:
How is even Murray not better than Thiem or even Ferrer? Thiem has not done anything big on clay until now. I would not count him even in top 5 on clay with list being Djokovic, Nadal, Wawrinka, Kei, Murray for 2016. He may win French this year or in few years but he is not top 5 and is barely top 10 on clay.
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Pretty sure Thiem has more titles on clay than Murray and Nishikori. Thiem just beat Nadal and Thiem will keep improving. Incredible play in 2016. Thiem will have more consistent results on clay than Wawrinka this season. Wawa has a French and Monte Carlo, but only QF at French once before that. You are delusional if you think Thiem is barely top 10 on clay. Working on 4th title in under a year.
 
StannisTheMannis said:
All of those guys are above Thiem on clay...cmon he was defeated by Cuevas at RG last year.
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Last year after Austrian military service Thiem had lackluster start to clay season. Won Nice, so a bit tired for the French. Thiem is rapidly improving in 2016. See post above.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
I don't find it funny but why should people have empathy for him?
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Emperor of Belgrade said:
Empathy? The guy won so much before and won more matches that were on his opponents' racket than any other player. It is not funny, but he was asking for it with his game. He shouldn't be getting much empathy really.
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Because it's never pretty to see any great champion fall so far. I'd rather see him retire than watch this type of thing. What's the point of watching a former great player struggle so much?
 
insideguy said:
I dont know but rumor has it tennis commentator was spotted on the gold gate bridge mumbling to himself about 2 hours ago:eek:
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it's the last one i'd worry about... tennis commentator's optimism is uparalleled ! :p
he's like the anti-clarky...
(for him, the only realistic danger of staying at the very top of the golden gate would be to be hit by a nadal passing shot at 50000 RPM)
 
Poor Rafa, the last thing he needed was losing to Thiem in a CLAY 250 event. Anyways, despite he is not moving like he was 5 years ago, I still think his major problem is mental. If he can fix that, he will be the only player one giving Djokovic some fight in the next few years.
 
Emperor of Belgrade said:
What he is going through, all other players have either gone or will go through. My point is there is no reason to single him out.
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When Djokovic lost the FO last year what did you feel? Could you emphasise with him despite the fact that there were other players who had gone or will go through the same experience? Or you couldn't find a reason to single Novak out?
 
vive le beau jeu ! said:
it's the last one i'd worry about... @tennis commentator's optimism is uparalleled ! :p
(for him, the only realistic danger of staying at the very top of the golden gate would be to be hit by a nadal passing shot at 50000 RPM)
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Hmm rafas rpms are dangerous. I was told he hit the highest rpm shot ever when he lost to verdasco. It hit the ground then shot up into the air and struck a passing airliner causing it to have to make an emergency landing. This caused rafa to be distracted thereby allowing verdasco to win the match.
 
The Fedfather said:
When Djokovic lost the FO last year what did you feel? Could you emphasise with him despite the fact that there were other players who had gone or will go through the same experience? Or you couldn't find a reason to single Novak out?
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I did emphasize with him a lot because he has suffered at that one remaining Slam like hardly anyone else has. Similar goes for Federer when he was losing FO finals to Nadal and for Murray at AO. However when talking about decline, there is no player in the world who doesn't face that eventually, which is why I think no player should be singled out when talking about that. Emphasized a bit - yes, but singling anyone out - no. Not just referring to Nadal, but to every other player.
 
Emperor of Belgrade said:
I did emphasize with him a lot because he has suffered at that one remaining Slam like hardly anyone else has. Similar goes for Federer when he was losing FO finals to Nadal and for Murray at AO. However when talking about decline, there is no player in the world who doesn't face that eventually, which is why I think no player should be singled out when talking about that. Emphasized a bit - yes, but singling anyone out - no. Not just referring to Nadal, but to every other player.
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There are different ways to go and the one Nadal's on right now isn't exactly the prettiest. I know there were more unfortunate players but people who care about Rafa, who follow his career closely will inevitably single him out. You're doing the same by saying that Novak has suffered at the FO like hardly anyone has.
 
insideguy said:
Well thats how he preserves his h2hs:rolleyes:
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never been an issue, he takes his beatings like a man...didn't even have to be at this tournament

what I don't get is Nadal is playing like he has something to lose....he has accomplished most everything he can, or wanted, but he seems so stressed...compare that to Federer who looks like he's playing with house money most of the time

talk about a coaching change...Rafa should ask Fed to coach him :) ....Gilbert was still playing when Agassi asked him to coach him
 
The Fedfather said:
There are different ways to go and the one Nadal's on right now isn't exactly the prettiest. I know there were more unfortunate players but people who care about Rafa, who follow his career closely will inevitably single him out. You're doing the same by saying that Novak has suffered at the FO like hardly anyone has.
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There are different ways to go but eventually everybody does. Rafa's way isn't pretty I agree, but he has more than made up for it for everything he won. At a Slam you can get close many times and fail every time or find yourself in a good position once and take that one chance. Decline and tough losses are not the same.
I do emphasize with Nadal a bit, but I still don't think he should be singled out because we are talking about decline. I will not single Djokovic's decline out when it happens because that is something inevitable.
 
Meles said:
Pretty sure Thiem has more titles on clay than Murray and Nishikori. Thiem just beat Nadal and Thiem will keep improving. Incredible play in 2016. Thiem will have more consistent results on clay than Wawrinka this season. Wawa has a French and Monte Carlo, but only QF at French once before that. You are delusional if you think Thiem is barely top 10 on clay. Working on 4th title in under a year.
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Kei has 2 Barcelona titles, Barcelona is very prestigious for spanish clay specialists and Murray is 3 time French semifinalist and beat good Nadal on clay. He didn't JUST beat Nadal in third set tiebreak, Murray thrashed him. I have no issues in Thiem's future prospectives but for 2016, he is not big enough to be top 5.
 
Plus, I am complete detractor of Thiem unless proven otherwise. He has won 250 tournaments some just before slams, some just after. He has beaten SOME okay players in the path but no one in top 5 on clay or otherwise at all. Thiem is not significant at the moment for slams at all. May change in future.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
Plus, I am complete detractor of Thiem unless proven otherwise. He has won 250 tournaments some just before slams, some just after. He has beaten SOME okay players in the path but no one in top 5 on clay or otherwise at all. Thiem is not significant at the moment for slams at all. May change in future.
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I'm excited about the FO this year, he should do well. His result against Goffin in the AO was unfortunate but Goffin played amazingly well. He's only 22, I think in 4-5 years once literally everyone in the top 20 will probably drops off except Nishikori and Raonic, Thiem can do some real damage. I would not be surprised if he wins a couple French Opens. Who does he have to look out for Zverev, Coric, Kyrgios, Tomic, Sock...? Raonic and Nishikori will be will be 30 and 31 when he's 28. There's a big chance he's top 5. We are really heading towards an actual weak era.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
Kei has 2 Barcelona titles, Barcelona is very prestigious for spanish clay specialists and Murray is 3 time French semifinalist and beat good Nadal on clay. He didn't JUST beat Nadal in third set tiebreak, Murray thrashed him. I have no issues in Thiem's future prospectives but for 2016, he is not big enough to be top 5.
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Agree that Clayray may be something to watch this year, but not sure that was good Nadal.;) Clay season comes up soon and its getting very, very interesting. Almagro's stellar play is a pleasant surprise.

My clay rankings:
1. Djokovic
2-8. Nadal, Murray, Thiem, Wawrinka, Ferrer, Nishikori, Almagro

At the French I would not rate Nishikori and Thiem as high for stamina reasons, but that's if it was held today. If Thiem bags an ATP 1000 then he's a threat at French. At this point Thiem can beat any of these players in a given match (Djokovic probably not). Thiem also becoming mentally very strong which cannot said about the rest except for Nole at this point. That's a big deal on clay.
 
LinePainter said:
I'm excited about the FO this year, he should do well. His result against Goffin in the AO was unfortunate but Goffin played amazingly well. He's only 22, I think in 4-5 years once literally everyone in the top 20 will probably drops off except Nishikori and Raonic, Thiem can do some real damage. I would not be surprised if he wins a couple French Opens. Who does he have to look out for Zverev, Coric, Kyrgios, Tomic, Sock...? Raonic and Nishikori will be will be 30 and 31 when he's 28. There's a big chance he's top 5. We are really heading towards an actual weak era.
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Wrong. See Taylor Fritz. A really strong year on clay coming up on tour. Thiem is a throwback to a clay court specialist like Muster, but may turn out to be a better player when its all said and done.
 
Meles said:
Wrong. See Taylor Fritz. A really strong year on clay coming up on tour. Thiem is a throwback to a clay court specialist like Muster, but may turn out to be a better player when its all said and done.
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What makes you think Fritz will trouble Thiem on clay courts? He hasn't played a match on clay on either the ATP or Challenger tour. I hope Fritz is successful for American tennis' sake but let's not forget how fortunate of a draw he has had in Memphis.
 
LinePainter said:
What makes you think Fritz will trouble Thiem on clay courts? He hasn't played a match on clay on either the ATP or Challenger tour. I hope Fritz is successful for American tennis' sake but let's not forget how fortunate of a draw he has had in Memphis.
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Wrong on weak era. Fritz looks like he will be an incredibly strong player in the upcoming years. Fritz does not look like a clay court player, but his ground strokes are solid, and the strength of his 2nd serve return might translate well to clay and first serves on that surface. If Thiem can win/make finals at the French and considering his clay court title onslaught he's sure to be top 5 and not a weak addition.
 
Meles said:
Wrong on weak era. Fritz looks like he will be an incredibly strong player in the upcoming years. Fritz does not look like a clay court player, but his ground strokes are solid, and the strength of his 2nd serve return might translate well to clay and first serves on that surface. If Thiem can win/make finals at the French and considering his clay court title onslaught he's sure to be top 5 and not a weak addition.
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I guess we have all been pampered with the greatness of Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic over the past 12 years that anything less seems weak. I just can't see anyone winning five straight in any GS in the next 8 years and that's is weird for me. It's definitely going to be competitive but I do not know who the next great is.

Who will we be having the next GOAT discussion over?
 
marc45 said:
idk here, he seemed pretty much the same physically at the end, and Thiem seemed worse

I think b of 3 is better for him now...on the other hand, with his nerves being what they are, b of 5, especially on clay, still provides him with some leeway for mid-match chokes..like that tb...was Thiem going to get stronger in the fourth?..or was that all he had?
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I am not talking hypotheticals here. I'm talking actual results. Rafa hasn't reached semi in the last 7 slams:
1- R16
2- NP
3- QF
4- QF
5- R64
6- R32
7- R128

Obviously, he's doing better in best of 3. But for how long?
 
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