ATP 250 Buenos Aires Semi-final: Nadal vs Thiem (Who's the King of Clay)

[marc45]

I am not talking hypotheticals here. I'm talking actual results. Rafa hasn't reached semi in the last 7 slams:
1- R16
2- NP
3- QF
4- QF
5- R64
6- R32
7- R128

Obviously, he's doing better in best of 3. But for how long?

yeah, but some of these best of three events he's done well in the last year or so have not had full fields...a Doha final, or a semi here, is less impressive than a slam qf....the future hasn't been written...I was surprised at the end today....Thiem definitely had the weapons to beat him I thought, UNTIL he started huffing and puffing and hitting everything as hard as he could hoping it would go in because he was tired...mostly he was missing, badly...and yet, he still managed to pull it out, even after being down match point...that can't happen for Nadal...I think it's fair to wonder what would have happened next because the French is Nadal's season, and maybe career, at this point

 

[Meles]

I'll write later about what I watches on friday and on saturday. But I have to say, Thiem is a great great player. Some pictures of his match vs Nadal.. As you can see in the photos, I had a great view. It was a nice match.

Awesome. Your courtside impressions are most wanted. Nadal did not look bad to me.

 

[RS92]

And the first serve of Almagro... Amazing. Many times he passed the 230 km per hour. He was amazing, he was on fire most of the time.

 

[RS92]

Awesome. Your courtside impressions are most wanted. Nadal did not look bad to me.

I will. And I will upload some vídeos too. I have for example the match point that Thiem saved with an amazing forehand winner.

 

[veroniquem]

yeah, but some of these best of three events he's done well in the last year or so have not had full fields...a Doha final, or a semi here, is less impressive than a slam qf....

Obviously, I was not thinking about Doha but some tier 1: SF at M-C, Shanghai, WTF. Final in Madrid.
Nothing too fancy but still better than his slam results where he is struggling to reach quarter.

 

[Nostradamus]

RAFA beatable ? he is NOT who he was ?? these are the Comments coming from Tennis Channel commentary.......What is wrong with these guys ??????

 

[moonballs]

Rafa will win the match here, I have complete confidence.

Nah, he won't bother in the current weak era.

 

[moonballs]

Been traveling...is this another case Nadal ran out of stamina at the end? Who would have thunk dat?

 

[MichaelNadal]

Nadal is a hot mess, I'm glad I went to sleep 15 mins into the first set.

 

[Meles]

Been traveling...is this another case Nadal ran out of stamina at the end? Who would have thunk dat?

No stamina issues. Pure pressure in the tie-breaker. Rafa had a complete confidence relapse starting the TB with a DF. He then got steam rolled to 6-1. Thiem got a bit nervous then, but finished Rafa off before it got to close.

Before this it was a great match. Rafa had a match point, but Thiem didn't give him a chance on that. My take is that Rafa is in very good form this early in the clay season with plenty of time to improve. Thiem is going to be a major force in all of the clay events this year with Djokovic probably being the only player out of his reach. (Almagro playing out of his mind and may turn out to be a bigger threat than in the past.)

 

[FEDEXP]

For those of you who decided not to watch this match; it was terrific tennis and close all the way.This was not about Nadal playing poorly. Dominic Thiem played great tennis and even when he missed he was always going for his shots.
Players have gotten a handle on the high returns and it was evident today in Thiem's play.
Nadal's OCD is not talked about (that I know of) as one of the reasons for his decline. It certainly is though; his OCD when serving has been noted; I'm surprised that he still picks his ass. What is new though is that he was picking when not serving; these rituals rob you of time.
Does he look less bulked up than he has in the past?

No one can predict with certainty whether an up and coming player will prove great. However, Dominic Thiem, caveats aside (injury, drive, mental toughness and travails off court) looks poised to be a top ten player, with all of those expectations realized and hopefully, winning Slams.

 

[The Green Mile]

No stamina issues. Pure pressure in the tie-breaker. Rafa had a complete confidence relapse starting the TB with a DF. He then got steam rolled to 6-1. Thiem got a bit nervous then, but finished Rafa off before it got to close.

Before this it was a great match. Rafa had a match point, but Thiem didn't give him a chance on that. My take is that Rafa is in very good form this early in the clay season with plenty of time to improve. Thiem is going to be a major force in all of the clay events this year with Djokovic probably being the only player out of his reach. (Almagro playing out of his mind and may turn out to be a bigger threat than in the past.)

I just finished watching it. Great match wouldn't be the exact words I would use to describe it. Rafa struggled to string a few great points together, and was his usual erratic and inconsistent self we have gotten used to over the past year or so. Never mind the movement, which played a big part in his game. Can't turn defense into offense like he used too on a frequent basis. Which probably affects him mentally. Thiem played a pretty good match, and held his own in baseline rallies with Rafa, and even dictated a large portion of their rallies. Forcing Rafa back and back. Many errors, but that's what generally comes with Thiem. Don't think there was any stamina issues with either.

I'm definitely not as optimistic about Thiem as you are (I still think his form wavers too much to become a MAJOR force), but I'm hoping he can make some deep runs in the bigger tournaments.

 

[Meles]

I just finished watching it. Great match wouldn't be the exact words I would use to describe it. Rafa struggled to string a few great points together, and was his usual erratic and inconsistent self we have gotten used to over the past year or so. Never mind the movement, which played a big part in his game. Can't turn defense into offense like he used too on a frequent basis. Which probably affects him mentally. Thiem played a pretty good match, and held his own in baseline rallies with Rafa, and even dictated a large portion of their rallies. Forcing Rafa back and back. Many errors, but that's what generally comes with Thiem. Don't think there was any stamina issues with either.

I'm definitely not as optimistic about Thiem as you are (I still think his form wavers too much to become a MAJOR force), but I'm hoping he can make some deep runs in the bigger tournaments.

We'll see on Thiem. Definitely some big runs coming in the minor events. Not sure he's up to 5 setters, but he's got time.

 

[sbengte]

Not this crap again. Where is Nadal when you need him to make the tour more interesting ? I thought he will be ready for the clay season this year and win that 10th RG. There is still time and things can change by June but the results are not encouraging so far.If he is losing to Thiem, what is he going to do vs top 10 or top 5 guys ?

Good to see a youngster make the final, but I need to see it happening in something bigger than a 250 or 500.

 

[chjtennis]

It's hard to imagine we'll see Nadal in 2018. He may actually retire with his good mate Federer.

 

[gn]

Shocked when I saw the ATPWorldTour daily results email that reads Almagro faces Thiem
Win over Cilic and now Nadal. He is 22. About the same age when Fed won his slam.

 

[marc45]

Nadal definitely has issues, but overall, have to say Thiem not getting enough respect here...the guy has game, especially on clay....I suspect this loss, whatever lays down the road with Rafa, will look better, as Thiem adds more good results on clay...one good run at a clay Masters and the French should do it

 

[kishnabe]

Thiem best shot is Clay...so I am not surprised he can beat a weakest version of Nadal on Clay. Nadal will play his way into form....he lost in Argentina before and Won FO.

 

[swordtennis]

Full credit to Theim! The ******** AND butt hurt on this site is rediculous. If one is on a match thread just to reinforce their limited and pitiful fan boy agenda get the hell off and go over to the whine boy forum general discussion.
Meles made this thread and he despises you whiners and weak era twat heads. Go troll your love interest. Maybe Nadal and Fed will entertain you take you on a date and give you the sex you obviously want.
That is what all this pain and screaming is about. Some type of trauma and latent sexual needs.

 

[gn]

Full credit to Theim! The ******** AND butt hurt on this site is rediculous. If one is on a match thread just to reinforce their limited and pitiful fan boy agenda get the hell off and go over to the whine boy forum general discussion.
Meles made this thread and he despises you whiners and weak era twat heads. Go troll your love interest. Maybe Nadal and Fed will entertain you take you on a date and give you the sex you obviously want.
That is what all this pain and screaming is about. Some type of trauma and latent sexual needs.

Calm down

 

[swordtennis]

Calm down

LOl Ok I did. Got woken up on call at 4:30 am. Wanted to read about the match today and see weakera and whining non stop. Lost it a bit lol. Unreal I did not know they invaded match threads now. Insidious. Unreal.

 

[gn]

Nadal definitely has issues, but overall, have to say Thiem not getting enough respect here...the guy has game, especially on clay....I suspect this loss, whatever lays down the road with Rafa, will look better, as Thiem adds more good results on clay...one good run at a clay Masters and the French should do it

I think he can do it. He won 2 Clay tourneys in 2 weeks last year. That's amazing considering how many pros pull out after a grueling week.
Look at how clever and level-headed he is when answering reporters.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/thiem-upsets-nadal-buenos-aires-2016

 

[marc45]

thanks

 

[insideguy]

I really thought rafa could have moved to the net more on theims backhand especially on serve but just would not do it. I dont know why. Theim was stand 20 feet behind the baseline to return rafas serve. It made no sense the oppurtunity was there and when rafa did come to net he succeeded more often than not. I dont get him at all.

 

[Meles]

I will. And I will upload some vídeos too. I have for example the match point that Thiem saved with an amazing forehand winner.

Still waiting. Maybe you should just post this in the Rio thread since everyone will be there. Searched your posting activity for update.

 

[moonballs]

No stamina issues. Pure pressure in the tie-breaker. Rafa had a complete confidence relapse starting the TB with a DF. He then got steam rolled to 6-1. Thiem got a bit nervous then, but finished Rafa off before it got to close.

Before this it was a great match. Rafa had a match point, but Thiem didn't give him a chance on that. My take is that Rafa is in very good form this early in the clay season with plenty of time to improve. Thiem is going to be a major force in all of the clay events this year with Djokovic probably being the only player out of his reach. (Almagro playing out of his mind and may turn out to be a bigger threat than in the past.)

Thanks. It was a best of three anyways. I watched the highlight and the match was indeed great tennis.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

I love Sasha Banks.

She has really grown on me lately. I enjoyed the faces she was making during the recent turn on Charlotte.

 

[La Grande]

Just watched the 20 minutes match highlights. First of all, Thiem played really well. Punished Nadal when he pushed. Displayed lots of power and looked fast.

Nadal was OK. Depth was iffy, a lot of short balls as was expected. I felt Nadal wasted a lot of chances in the first set. There was many times when he got the chance to put away a short-ish forehand and couldn't do anything of the sort. Still has a lot of spin on his shots but basically no pace. Thiem looked much more dangerous out there.

He struggled to hit a comfortable backhand down the line. Combine that with crappy length and you get Dominic Thiem blasting easy forehand put aways off short spinny bouncing shots from Nadal. So that was a problem. But look, it was a close match.

So, into the tiebreak. Nadal standing way too far back, a couple of embarrassingly short returns, a badly executed (and obvious) dropshot that was dumped into the net and it was gone.

Last thoughts. Something I hadn't mentioned, but is so relevant. He looked really slow out there. He stands so far back anyway, but when you're slow as well, the angles your opponent can create are endless. Thiem did just that a lot of the time. Nadal's forehand obviously was not controlling anything also. Shame. Didn't watch enough to see how his serve was. What does Nadal need to improve moving forward? Everything

 

[Meles]

Just watched the 20 minutes match highlights. First of all, Thiem played really well. Punished Nadal when he pushed. Displayed lots of power and looked fast.

Nadal was OK. Depth was iffy, a lot of short balls as was expected. I felt Nadal wasted a lot of chances in the first set. There was many times when he got the chance to put away a short-ish forehand and couldn't do anything of the sort. Still has a lot of spin on his shots but basically no pace. Thiem looked much more dangerous out there.

He struggled to hit a comfortable backhand down the line. Combine that with crappy length and you get Dominic Thiem blasting easy forehand put aways off short spinny bouncing shots from Nadal. So that was a problem. But look, it was a close match.

So, into the tiebreak. Nadal standing way too far back, a couple of embarrassingly short returns, a badly executed (and obvious) dropshot that was dumped into the net and it was gone.

Last thoughts. Something I hadn't mentioned, but is so relevant. He looked really slow out there. He stands so far back anyway, but when you're slow as well, the angles your opponent can create are endless. Thiem did just that a lot of the time. Nadal's forehand obviously was not controlling anything also. Shame. Didn't watch enough to see how his serve was. What does Nadal need to improve moving forward? Everything

Thought I saw quite a few good forehands from Rafa. Everything to me means he needs to hit heavier and like you kinda say he may not be able to do it any more, but he might. Thought Rafa looked pretty good and on track and balls were not that short. Thiem hits very heavy and so Rafa was on the defensive a bit. Hitting heavier would help keep Thiem and others from putting Rafa under as much pressure and allow him to do more. I thought Rafa's serve looked very good except for the DF collapse in the tiebreaker (which was horrible, but a lot of that was Thiem who forcefully took breakers from Almagro Sunday in the final.)

You are aware that Almagro vs Nadal collision imminent in Rio?

 

[veroniquem]

his OCD when serving has been noted; I'm surprised that he still picks his ass. What is new though is that he was picking when not serving; these rituals rob you of time.

That's actually not new at all. He's been having those nervous tics on both serve and return for quite a while now. Less winning = more stress.

 

[veroniquem]

Didn't watch enough to see how his serve was.

He DFs a lot on crucial points nowadays (TB). That's because he knows his 2nd serve is not dangerous enough. It affects his confidence.

 

[Livedeath]

lovely result... especially after saving match point

So Thiem heard you when you said to him "Go ahead make my day"

 

[RS92]

These are the best points that I recorded in the Thiem Nadal match. The camera of my mobile phone is not good for videos so the quality is not that good..

 

[Meles]

These are the best points that I recorded in the Thiem Nadal match. The camera of my mobile phone is not good for videos so the quality is not that good..

Amazing!(This should go in the Thiem thread.) Really gives you a feel for what it would be like to see the match live. The power of Thiem was amazing and Rafa had some awesome highlights too.

So who do you prefer, Clayray or Dominator?

 

[RS92]

Amazing!(This should go in the Thiem thread.) Really gives you a feel for what it would be like to see the match live. The power of Thiem was amazing and Rafa had some awesome highlights too.

So who do you prefer, Clayray or Dominator?

Murray of course. But I would like to see Thiem winning big things too. In 2015 I saw some matches of him and I liked how he plays. And now that I watched him live, playing very good tennis, I'll root for him too.

 

[Meles]

Murray of course. But I would like to see Thiem winning big things too. In 2015 I saw some matches of him and I liked how he plays. And now that I watched him live, playing very good tennis, I'll root for him too.

Clayray vs Dominator should happen this year.....