ATP announces Rankings changes in response to revised calendar, COVID-19 pandemic

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
ROFLMAO what are you on about? This is unfair, but in Nadal's favor. Normally he would have to defend the title to keep the points. Now he can lose 1R and keep all the points. He has nothing to lose, unlike in normal years
He won't gain anything if he defends his title but anyone who does better than last year will add more to their ranking points.
 

Meles Fan.

Professional
Zverev right now:
tenor.gif
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
He won't gain anything if he defends his title but anyone who does better than last year will add more to their ranking points.
That’s because as far as the points are concerned Nadal will be treated as if he won the USO and the FO. He gets 4000 “free” points from those two slams alone
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
That’s because as far as the points are concerned Nadal will be treated as if he won the USO and the FO. He gets 4000 “free” points from those two slams alone
But if he wins them they won't be doing him any favours.
 
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smash hit

Professional
So basically the Bull keeps his 4000 points of USO & RG even if he loses them in the first week of the competition??

What a joke. Guy's luck is endless. Disgust.

Quote from an article by By José Morgado in BolaAmarela

"ROGER FEDERER is perhaps the most benefited of all. In a world without a pandemic and if Federer had maintained his intention to be operated a second time and miss what is missing in 2020, the Swiss would be very close to getting out of the top 100, since they only played one tournament, the Australian Open, in 2020. Thus, the Swiss maintains all its main points of 2019 - Indian Wells, Wimbledon, Miami, Roland Garros, Halle and Basel, for example, and will have a new opportunity to defend them in 2021. It should remain at the top 8 ATP."
 

Milanez82

Hall of Fame
Let's see who gains and where.

Events that won't be held: IW, Miami, Monte Carlo, Canada, Barcelona, Wimbledon.
Free points from those events:
Nadal: 360 + 0 + 360 + 1000 + 180 + 720 = 2720
Djokovic: 45 + 90 + 180 + 0 + 0 + 2000 = 2315

Summary: Djokovic probably suffers from the cancelled tournaments. He was likely to win a good amount of points from IW+Miami, let alone Canada and MC on top of that. Nadal could have improved as well, but to a lesser degree since his results were pretty decent already.

Events until the end of the year: US Open, RG, ATP Finals, Shanghai, Paris, Cincinnati, Madrid, Rome.
Nadal defending: 2000 + 2000 + 600 + 0 + 360 + 0 + 360 + 1000 = 6320
Djokovic defending: 180 + 720 + 400 + 180 + 1000 + 360 + 1000 + 600 = 4440

Summary:
Slams: Nadal cannot gain at the US Open and RG. Fortunately for him, this means he can play without worrying about #1. However, he also can't gain here. Djokovic can gain in both tournaments, so that helps him. However, both will probably give their best in both tournaments. Advantage Djokovic.
M1000s/1500: Djokovic can gain 1960 points, Nadal can gain 3180 points, and Nadal can gain points without much effort (Cincinnati and Shanghai), whereas Djokovic cannot gain points without reaching the SF (Shanghai and Finals), and reaching the final everywhere else. Advantage Nadal.

Overall, this ruling is advantageous for Nadal, but not by too much since Djokovic can gain a good amount at the US Open. He really needs to perform well there. However, if Djokovic wins the US Open, it's practically over for #1.
Djokovic also has 500 from Tokyo which is unknown if it will be played
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
ROFLMAO what are you on about? This is unfair, but in Nadal's favor. Normally he would have to defend the title to keep the points. Now he can lose 1R and keep all the points. He has nothing to lose, unlike in normal years

:rolleyes:
Wrong!
Nadal (and to a lesser extent Djokovic) cares much more now about winning a Major tournament than staying several weeks as world number 1.
The ultimate motivation for Spaniard for the remainder of this season is to match Federer's Grand Slam titles record rather than match Sampras' 6-year-end number 1, for example.
Pressure he has it and is a lot!
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Quote from an article by By José Morgado in BolaAmarela

"ROGER FEDERER is perhaps the most benefited of all. In a world without a pandemic and if Federer had maintained his intention to be operated a second time and miss what is missing in 2020, the Swiss would be very close to getting out of the top 100, since they only played one tournament, the Australian Open, in 2020. Thus, the Swiss maintains all its main points of 2019 - Indian Wells, Wimbledon, Miami, Roland Garros, Halle and Basel, for example, and will have a new opportunity to defend them in 2021. It should remain at the top 8 ATP."

Isso é muito certo.
A situação de Federer passou despercebida, mas ele se mostrou o mais beneficiado de todos os jogadores.
:)
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
But if he wins them they won't be doing him any favours.
You mean on points, right? Obviously winning the USO and FO would be an incredible feat and leave him at number 21.

And since Nadal is already keeping the points from the FO and the USO no matter what happens what more could he possibly ask for?
 
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jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
:rolleyes:
Wrong!
Nadal (and to a lesser extent Djokovic) cares much more now about winning a Major tournament than staying several weeks as world number 1.
The ultimate motivation for Spaniard for the remainder of this season is to match Federer's Grand Slam titles record rather than match Sampras' 6-year-end number 1, for example.
Pressure he has it and is a lot!
What does the pressure of winning Slams have to do with what I just said? clayqueen claimed it was the new ranking scheme is "unfair" to Nadal. I'm pointing out that it isn't
 

ND-13

Legend
I am not sure USO is happening with commercial flights not open from many countries into USA.

It is not fair even if one player who qualifies for event is not able to play because of travel restrictions.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
I'd be worried about Thiem's stamina, not Rafa's stamina.
Thiem runs out of gas at the end of every slam, looked weak in the last 2 sets of the AO Final, and we saw his disastrous French Open Final last year....
Flip the draws he probably wins both. :sneaky: Life as a lower seed.

Thiem is the one who is screwed by this ruling.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
He had his chance in January in the AO final. He was up 2-1 in sets, Novak had left the court, was "sick," not playing well, and he inexplicably took his foot off the gas. He gifted Djokovic that match through nerves, choking and just being Thiem in major finals.
Now it's Thiem's destiny to win US Open and RG and then fraudulently be denied #1.:mad: Djoko might be embarrassed to get the trophy in that scenario. Fraud sitting back and losing no points.:sneaky:
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Let's see who gains and where.

Events that won't be held: IW, Miami, Monte Carlo, Canada, Barcelona, Wimbledon.
Free points from those events:
Nadal: 360 + 0 + 360 + 1000 + 180 + 720 = 2720
Djokovic: 45 + 90 + 180 + 0 + 0 + 2000 = 2315

Summary: Djokovic probably suffers from the cancelled tournaments. He was likely to win a good amount of points from IW+Miami, let alone Canada and MC on top of that. Nadal could have improved as well, but to a lesser degree since his results were pretty decent already.

Events until the end of the year: US Open, RG, ATP Finals, Shanghai, Paris, Cincinnati, Madrid, Rome.
Nadal defending: 2000 + 2000 + 600 + 0 + 360 + 0 + 360 + 1000 = 6320
Djokovic defending: 180 + 720 + 400 + 180 + 1000 + 360 + 1000 + 600 = 4440

Summary:
Slams: Nadal cannot gain at the US Open and RG. Fortunately for him, this means he can play without worrying about #1. However, he also can't gain here. Djokovic can gain in both tournaments, so that helps him. However, both will probably give their best in both tournaments. Advantage Djokovic.
M1000s/1500: Djokovic can gain 1960 points, Nadal can gain 3180 points, and Nadal can gain points without much effort (Cincinnati and Shanghai), whereas Djokovic cannot gain points without reaching the SF (Shanghai and Finals), and reaching the final everywhere else. Advantage Nadal.

Overall, this ruling is advantageous for Nadal, but not by too much since Djokovic can gain a good amount at the US Open. He really needs to perform well there. However, if Djokovic wins the US Open, it's practically over for #1.
Big 3 fraud move so tour can keep propping them up if rigging surfaces and play rulings was not enough.(n)
 

Federev

G.O.A.T.
It really looks like Djokovic will get the weeks at number 1 record and Nadal the slam record now at the very least.
It’s such a bogus award at this point after all the cancellations rescheduling this year.

I don’t think it’s worth awarding.

Also - I probably wouldn’t say this if Fed was in contention cause I’m blinded by my “Fed-devotee-ness”.
 
It’s such a bogus award at this point after all the cancellations rescheduling this year.

I don’t think it’s worth awarding.

You can claim the YE1 is (although one of djokodal very likely wud have got it anyway) but surely not the weeks. Just seems like a way for you to qualify achievements no matter what , I mean if anything this pandemic robbed Djokovic of weeks at 1.
 

Federev

G.O.A.T.
I don’t know why this did this.

Even if it benefits my fave guys (Fed) it is so explicitly artificial.

No need to do anything but only carry over points only for those tournaments skipped.
 

thrust

Legend
No.
But he won't lose any points either - regardless of results. Those 2,000 pts each at US and RG are practically set in stone.
The downside risk is eliminated.
Totally unfair! Also, as Roger announced he was not going to play the rest of the year before the virus struck, he should lose points he needed to defend. This is the ATP punishment of Novak for his tour, or so it seems.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
If we look at those other than the very top players, then even though they talk of giving other players more opportunity to 'stay safe' by allowing them to keep 'old points'...

Is the point of the change not also to reward those who do decide to play? If they do better they go up, but if they do worse they suffer no penalty.

And they earn money in the process, obviously, so it's a points and money incentive to get everyone back in the game.
 

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
Totally unfair! Also, as Roger announced he was not going to play the rest of the year before the virus struck, he should lose points he needed to defend. This is the ATP punishment of Novak for his tour, or so it seems.

Hardly a punishment for Novak - this makes him an even stronger favourite to finish the Year #1 than before!
He can gain points at nearly every remaining tournament whilst Nadal has a ceiling at both of those Slams.

The guys who really suffer will be those lower ranked players.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I can't see it, so what is your argument?

To me they've created a game of snakes and ladder, but removed the snakes.

If you play and do better, you're better off. If you play and do worse, then you keep what you had.

The guys who really suffer will be those lower ranked players.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
You mean on points, right? Obviously winning the USO and FO would be an incredible feat and leave him at number 21.

And since Nadal is already keeping the points from the FO and the USO no matter what happens what more could he possibly ask for?
He could ask for bonus points if he defends his title. If last year's runner up wins the title this year in a slam or M1000 they will be better off by 1200 and 800 points respectively but if a player defends his title, he won't get any more points.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
I’m just trolling. I do hope I’m right, though. Thiem is getting older and he’s about to miss his chance.

no no.
according to some scientists from TTW players reach their peak at approx 35 years old.
so next ones to peak are Novak and Rafa.
Thiem has to wait
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
by playing and winning tournaments?
Djokovic made SF at RG, Rnd 16 at the USO and final in Rome so he can improve on those points. The only tournament Djokovic can't improve on is Madrid. Rafa won the USO, RG and Rome and can only improve his points in Madrid. So if Rafa wins the USO, RG and Rome again, he will be no better off.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic made SF at RG, Rnd 16 at the USO and final in Rome so he can improve on those points. The only tournament Djokovic can't improve on is Madrid. Rafa won the USO, RG and Rome and can only improve his points in Madrid. So if Rafa wins the USO, RG and Rome again, he will be no better off.

so independent of his actual results Rafa will keep 5000 points, and he doesn't benefit from this rule?
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
so independent of his actual results Rafa will keep 5000 points, and he doesn't benefit from this rule?
No. Because, for instance, Djokovic could win another 3700 from the USO, RG and Rome and Rafa can only win another 640 points in Madrid. I've just used these 2 players as my examples but it applies to everyone who is not defending a title. Rafa wasn't able to play to improve on his Wimbledon title, for example.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
No. Because, for instance, Djokovic could win another 3700 from the USO, RG and Rome and Rafa can only win another 640 points in Madrid. I've just used these 2 players as my examples but it applies to everyone who is not defending a title. Rafa wasn't able to play to improve on his Wimbledon title, for example.

let's review this at the end of the season.

my forecast, in terms of biggest beneficiaries of this rule:
1. Nadal as he protects so many points independent of his results
2. Novak, as with a bit of luck he could have the #1 in his pocket

why Rafa is #1 and Novak is #2?
cause Novak needs to win tournaments to get more points, while Rafa can choose where to play and where he can relax having the 2019 points by default.
and we have seen that in BO3 Novak is vulnerable, so all those theoretical discussions need to be proved on court.
even in BO5 Novak is vulnerable. If Thiem, Med, Tsitsipas, Rublev prepare well, nothing is guaranteed for Novak, while Rafa keeps the 5000 points from 2019.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
let's review this at the end of the season.

my forecast, in terms of biggest beneficiaries of this rule:
1. Nadal as he protects so many points independent of his results
2. Novak, as with a bit of luck he could have the #1 in his pocket

why Rafa is #1 and Novak is #2?
cause Novak needs to win tournaments to get more points, while Rafa can choose where to play and where he can relax having the 2019 points by default.
and we have seen that in BO3 Novak is vulnerable, so all those theoretical discussions need to be proved on court.
even in BO5 Novak is vulnerable. If Thiem, Med, Tsitsipas, Rublev prepare well, nothing is guaranteed for Novak, while Rafa keeps the 5000 points from 2019.
Reviewing it at the end of the season would be too late.
 

40L0VE

Professional
The same rules apply to every one equally so they are fair. What can be argued is the provisional resumption date of the tour is possibly advantageous for some players but this is no more a problem than lucky and unlucky draws in slam.
 
D

Deleted member 770948

Guest
Fed had legends and many admirers in the stands when he broke PETE's record.

Nadal and Djokovic will have crickets, which will makes it way less epic and that's a-OK with me.
Roland Garros announced that its allowing 60% of seats to be filled, so you are wrong.
 

K-H

Hall of Fame
let's review this at the end of the season.

my forecast, in terms of biggest beneficiaries of this rule:
1. Nadal as he protects so many points independent of his results
2. Novak, as with a bit of luck he could have the #1 in his pocket

why Rafa is #1 and Novak is #2?
cause Novak needs to win tournaments to get more points, while Rafa can choose where to play and where he can relax having the 2019 points by default.
and we have seen that in BO3 Novak is vulnerable, so all those theoretical discussions need to be proved on court.
even in BO5 Novak is vulnerable. If Thiem, Med, Tsitsipas, Rublev prepare well, nothing is guaranteed for Novak, while Rafa keeps the 5000 points from 2019.
Yh but its more in novaks hands than Rafas.
That's why it favours him

Rafa can go and just dominate two of the biggest tournaments next month and win them both. But it'll mean nothing to him in terms of getting No1.

Novak can simply make finals of both and lose to nadal in both and still build a bigger lead in his rabkings.

Any other year that'd be okay because thats how the rankings work (if you win a title there, you cant gain any more points there the next year). And it might even balance out during the year as rafa wouldve had the same advantage at Wimbledon for example.

But this year rafa doesn't have that advantage and this also applies to a lot of people who won many titles in the tail end of 2019. Thats why rafa has a disadvantage. And novak can just win and keep building on his lead. Rafa just winning doesnt guarantee him anything. Its not in his hands. Its always better when it is.

But it is what it is, I wouldn't complain to the ATP as its a hard situation and you can't make everyone happy. Some parties are bound to be at an advantage.
 
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