ATP Forehand Drill

[Raul_SJ]

Pete says he was a Div I player with an "old school forehand". Wanted to transform it to modern so he went to Macci to take lessons and teach him an ATP forehand. Pete says the ATP is not just for advanced players; it is also an option for 3.5 players who are interested in learning that style.

This video is only a preview of his paid course, but it looks like a drill for the ATP style. Maybe putting cones on the strings forces a Pat The Dog position?

 

[FailBetter]

yeah i bought the course.
he had probs going to pat the dog. he always used kind of "wta-loop"

 

[Raul_SJ]

yeah i bought the course.
he had probs going to pat the dog. he always used kind of "wta-loop"

Oh no, it's bad news if a high level player like him is having trouble reaching pat the dog...
What is he looking for in the cones drill? Cones should fly backwards?

 

[FailBetter]

yea but his muscle memory is programmed to the other "oldschool" forehand. I dont know how many balls he has hit that way but probably quite a lot.
so for him it feels total wrong not doing the looped fh. but his old fh is quite good, I would be happy to have a fh like that.

with the cones he tries to stop him from looping. if the cone flys of before inititing foreward swing he has done it wrong.

 

[Raul_SJ]

yea but his muscle memory is programmed to the other "oldschool" forehand. I dont know how many balls he has hit that way but probably quite a lot.
so for him it feels total wrong not doing the looped fh. but his old fh is quite good, I would be happy to have a fh like that.

He was a state champion player. Hit a million balls. But he still wanted to revamp his great forehand... Now he says he's hitting the best forehands of his life after learning the ATP.

More spin. More power. Avg mph went from 62mph to 77mph.

 

[pencilcheck]

Cool. To be honest I don’t know what his old forehand look like but looks like he is happy with this change

 

[Dondon]

Yeah. We heard it all.
Put Nadal on the opposite side
We'll see dat fh breakdown

 

[Raul_SJ]

Yeah. We heard it all.
Put Nadal on the opposite side
We'll see dat fh breakdown

That is a different issue. The first step is to do it on easy drop feeds.
Pete has improved in the drop feeds in velocity and spin. That in itself is an accomplishment. Most players never even get that far.

 

[hurworld]

yeah i bought the course.
he had probs going to pat the dog. he always used kind of "wta-loop"

How is the new FH paid course, in your opinion? Useful? Will it make an impact to your FH?

 

[heninfan99]

Cool. To be honest I don’t know what his old forehand look like but looks like he is happy with this change

his old one was pretty modern just very stiff

 

[undecided]

I still don't understand how 'arming' the ball more can give more spin and more speed. Spin and Speed are usually mutually exclusive, you trade one for the other.

 

[Raul_SJ]

I still don't understand how 'arming' the ball more can give more spin and more speed. Spin and Speed are usually mutually exclusive, you trade one for the other.

Who says ATP is arming? It is just the opposite. The trunk slightly leads in the forward swing, creating a SSC, with "feeling of hitting arm being left behind".

It uses the whole body to drive the motion. And creates greater RHS. Higher RHS means more spin or more speed, depending on the swing path you choose to use.

 

[undecided]

Who says ATP is arming? It is just the opposite. The trunk slightly leads in the forward swing, creating a SSC, with "feeling of hitting arm being left behind".

It uses the whole body to drive the motion. And creates greater RHS. Higher RHS means more spin or more speed, depending on the swing path you choose to use.

Prior thread on ATP Forehand described it as arming the ball.

 

[Dragy]

Prior thread on ATP Forehand described it as arming the ball.

That one had, let’s call it, unconventional approach to describing athletic tasks.

 

[tennishabit]

gee.........e, lolololololol man. quite funny dat the top vid showing the guy's legs 'trembling' nicely a couple of sec then the left toe seemed nailed on the ground w/o stepping forward bit, wat's dat for:?)))...........................

 

[Deleted member 54265]

How is the new FH paid course, in your opinion? Useful? Will it make an impact to your FH?

I think he is a really great teacher, and a lot of fun to watch too. I have his slice serve course and that really help my serve.

Regarding the forehand course, I saw him hitting with Jeff Salzenstein in the free video, and his footwork was way off and I was very surpriced that Jeff did not correct that the minute his saw it - proper footwork is the foundation for a great FH so that kind of threw me off.

However Jeff could have corrected that in the paid course (I hope so)

Cheers, Toby

 

[Deleted member 54265]

Here is is around 8:30 or so regarding footwork, I am a great fan of Jeff but I dont get this one.

 

[Deleted member 54265]

However tha Rich Macci video alone is perhaps worth it all - 6:50 and onwards, perhaps best tip ever.... on the importants of staying relaxed.

 

[Raul_SJ]

However tha Rich Macci video alone is perhaps worth it all - 6:50 and onwards, perhaps best tip ever.... on the importants of staying relaxed.

Sometimes the most simple tips are the most important.

It still blows my mind that a Div I player with huge shots like Pete, who is a coach that has put out videos himself on relaxing could still have so much tension. And that Macci could spot it in 10 seconds. That one minute alone was worth the $500 per hour lesson.

Macci tells Pete he might have gone to 7.0 instead of 6.0 with the right relaxation. Pete agrees.

Be intense and driven to train hard but do not let that intensity cause you to squeeze the racquet. That is the challenge.

The importance of relaxation really cannot be overemphasized.

 

[pencilcheck]

Pete is getting old, and his old habit is mostly hitting "flatter" strokes, so his wrist is not fully relaxed.

His body also feels very stiff on transition, reason probably due to old age, but i'm not sure.

 

[Raul_SJ]

However tha Rich Macci video alone is perhaps worth it all - 6:50 and onwards, perhaps best tip ever.... on the importants of staying relaxed.

What's going on with Macci telling him not to bring the back foot around? How does that relate to relaxation?

 

[Deleted member 54265]

What's going on with Macci telling him not to bring the back foot around? How does that relate to relaxation?

Yes, I didn’t get that part either.

 

[Chadalina]

Yes, I didn’t get that part either.

Anchor leg, if it moves, the ship does as well.

Never bring your leg around during follow through, just open stance if your gonna do it. Deep prep is pointless if you open early

 

[Deleted member 54265]

Anchor leg, if it moves, the ship does as well.

Never bring your leg around during follow through, just open stance if your gonna do it. Deep prep is pointless if you open early

I would advocate a Brian Dabul approach and bring your leg around for easy power

 

[Chadalina]

I would advocate a Brian Dabul approach and bring your leg around for easy power

You lose core str and have to have perf timing. Open early and the xcourt sails wide and the up the line curves to middle.

The variable is to much

 

[Deleted member 54265]

You lose core str and have to have perf timing. Open early and the xcourt sails wide and the up the line curves to middle.

The variable is to much

Not IMO, I play my FH that way and gain a lot of easy power, play much more relaxed too. Most people are arming the FH too much, and tense / muscle up and loose a lot of energy.

Look at the video and see how much body power that goes into the shot.

You could give it a try.

Cheers, Toby

 

[michael valek]

The guys in the video above are not bringing their anchor leg around. It’s stays during the shot then they just move quickly after it.

 

[Deleted member 54265]

BTW look at around 0:50 to see some good footwork:

 

[Deleted member 54265]

The guys in the video above are not bringing their anchor leg around. It’s stays during the shot then they just move quickly after it.

It is a follow through and very effective. Modern style FH. And they do come around IMO. Look at the drill 0:50 they even come around on the BH too, and that is also a way to generate more power. Cheers T

 

[michael valek]

It’s a very fine line. They are so fast but their back legs are back definitely and come after contact point. Main thing is they are moving moving moving. If they were just hitting one shot it’d be more obvious.

 

[Deleted member 54265]

I train with a Spanish trainer and he is teaching again and again and again: move move move, come around your FH (not talking inside out here, but all FH), use your body (legs) to generate power, move, come around with your legs. Kind of training exercises like Brian Dubal all the time.

I added like 20-30% extra power on my FH with less effort (I finally understood what easy power was)

Cheers, T

I

 

[michael valek]

Horses for courses. I just made a lot of gains by keeping the back foot still. Anyway enjoy playing that’s the main thing. I suppose it also depends where you are before you hit the ball. For example in doubles keeping the foot still is gonna be easier as you’re only in 1/4 of the court but a singles rally generally has you moving around

 

[hurworld]

I train with a Spanish trainer and he is teaching again and again and again: move move move, come around your FH (not talking inside out here, but all FH), use your body (legs) to generate power, move, come around with your legs. Kind of training exercises like Brian Dubal all the time.

I added like 20-30% extra power on my FH with less effort (I finally understood what easy power was)

Cheers, T

I

So inside out FH you don’t bring back foot forward? Maybe not forward but level with front foot?

 

[Deleted member 54265]

So inside out FH you don’t bring back foot forward? Maybe not forward but level with front foot?

Yes indeed I also bring the back foot forward in an inside out FH. Perhaps I was unclear in my previous writing.

It was really an eyeopener when I got a new coach with different ideas on the FH.

Highly reccomended to try out.

Cheers, T

 

[Deleted member 54265]

Horses for courses. I just made a lot of gains by keeping the back foot still. Anyway enjoy playing that’s the main thing. I suppose it also depends where you are before you hit the ball. For example in doubles keeping the foot still is gonna be easier as you’re only in 1/4 of the court but a singles rally generally has you moving around

I play mainly singles on clay court.

 

[hurworld]

Yes indeed I also bring the back foot forward in an inside out FH. Perhaps I was unclear in my previous writing.

It was really an eyeopener when I got a new coach with different ideas on the FH.

Highly reccomended to try out.

Cheers, T

I actually can do that (bring back foot forward) thing in shadow swing. Feels like the weight of the racquet swing pulling my right side forward. Not sure if that is the correct feeling. Trying to consciously do this in live play is another matter.

 

[Chadalina]

Not IMO, I play my FH that way and gain a lot of easy power, play much more relaxed too. Most people are arming the FH too much, and tense / muscle up and loose a lot of energy.

Look at the video and see how much body power that goes into the shot.

You could give it a try.

Cheers, Toby

You probably drag it around, not bring it around (like the serve). They sound the same but if the leg out runs the hip/leg you lose your compression/power.

Ive never understood the purpose of drop feeds (like in your video).

"indeed I also bring the back foot forward in an inside out FH. "

If you bring your back leg around doesnt that mess up the alignment you need to make the ball go inside out (outward angle)? Wont it go straight or curve up the middle?

 

[tennishabit]

I would advocate a Brian Dabul approach and bring your leg around for easy power

gr8 vid n dat's the only way to strike w/ easy pwr ie efficiently/effectively.............

 

[Deleted member 54265]

gr8 vid n dat's the only way to strike w/ easy pwr ie efficiently/effectively.............

I have a hard time reading and understanding your post, so I can't comment, sorry.

Cheers, Toby

 

[undecided]

You lose core str and have to have perf timing. Open early and the xcourt sails wide and the up the line curves to middle.

The variable is to much

I concur on this one, whenever my right foot slips and come around from too much torqueing my cross court sails wide to the deuce court.

 

[tennishabit]

I have a hard time reading and understanding your post, so I can't comment, sorry.

Cheers, Toby

understanding or not is purely ur private/internal affair n not others' business.............

 

[undecided]

understanding or not is purely ur private/internal affair n not others' business.............

I 've seen multiple posters comment on you to improve on the twitter/snapchat style posts as this is not twitter, so this is not just this guy's affair.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Wanted to transform it to modern so he went to Macci to take lessons and teach him an ATP forehand. Pete says the ATP is not just for advanced players; it is also an option for 3.5 players who are interested in learning that style.

I'm not sure how you can show a video of a former 6.0 player learning a new FH technique, and relate that at all to a 3.5 option.
Pete has no idea what life is like as a 3.5. Most of us have trouble just hitting clean FH's.

All I saw was talk about power and spin. 3.5's need a technique that builds consistency. We don't need power and spin if we are going to frame every FH. So the question for whether the ATP is right for a 3.5 really comes down to whether it improves contact. That's really where every 3.5 I've ever met struggles.

And tbh , it's not because of whether they hit ATP or WTA style. It's mostly because they have poor anticipation, footwork and focus.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I train with a Spanish trainer and he is teaching again and again and again: move move move, come around your FH (not talking inside out here, but all FH), use your body (legs) to generate power, move, come around with your legs. Kind of training exercises like Brian Dubal all the time.

I added like 20-30% extra power on my FH with less effort (I finally understood what easy power was)

Cheers, T

I

I need more details on what your coach means by "come around your FH".

- We rotate around front (non-dominant) leg/hip on weight transfer FHs (square stance in video below)

- we rotate around back (dominant) leg/hip on open stance FHs

- the anchoring over one leg (on occasion both) is key in power in stroke ... if your anchor moves to soon you lose power

- things happen in follow through after contact which is just a natural result of actions before contact ... after the fact, arm and racquet follow through ... back leg might come around ... just follow through

So how would coach frame the "come around" for the two fh types?

In Fed video below ... he slighly drags back leg forward on square (weight transfer) FHs.

Watch open stance FHs starting @01:00 ... after contact he does get off the ground and feet land after rotation. I actually hadn't noticed this before ... but to me this is just like a natural arm follow through ... least stress for Fed to allow hop and rotate. If you watch Djokovic hit some open stance FHs in video right after Fed, in those examples he does not rotate right leg/foot forward.

I think max power from fh comes when shoulders do not rotate through contact. Fed is a perfect example, shoulder turn pauses, arm continues forward, then more shoulder/torso rotation after contact in follow through. I'm curious if your coach is promoting rotating torso/shoulders at contact.

 

[undecided]

I'm not sure how you can show a video of a former 6.0 player learning a new FH technique, and relate that at all to a 3.5 option.
Pete has no idea what life is like as a 3.5. Most of us have trouble just hitting clean FH's.

All I saw was talk about power and spin. 3.5's need a technique that builds consistency. We don't need power and spin if we are going to frame every FH. So the question for whether the ATP is right for a 3.5 really comes down to whether it improves contact. That's really where every 3.5 I've ever met struggles.

And tbh , it's not because of whether they hit ATP or WTA style. It's mostly because they have poor anticipation, footwork and focus.

Who are these 3.5s that frame everything?

 

[tennishabit]

here's a gr8 vid, guys. enjoy it every time i watch it..........nad's body weight shifting forward beautifully w/ his perfect fh/bh footwork, love it................

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2475252732489218

 

[tennishabit]

I 've seen multiple posters comment on you to improve on the twitter/snapchat style posts as this is not twitter, so this is not just this guy's affair.

ur=your; singular/plural.............lolololol man or men........................

 

[Deleted member 54265]

I need more details on what your coach means by "come around your FH".

- We rotate around front (non-dominant) leg/hip on weight transfer FHs (square stance in video below)

- we rotate around back (dominant) leg/hip on open stance FHs

- the anchoring over one leg (on occasion both) is key in power in stroke ... if your anchor moves to soon you lose power

- things happen in follow through after contact which is just a natural result of actions before contact ... after the fact, arm and racquet follow through ... back leg might come around ... just follow through

So how would coach frame the "come around" for the two fh types?

In Fed video below ... he slighly drags back leg forward on square (weight transfer) FHs.

Watch open stance FHs starting @01:00 ... after contact he does get off the ground and feet land after rotation. I actually hadn't noticed this before ... but to me this is just like a natural arm follow through ... least stress for Fed to allow hop and rotate. If you watch Djokovic hit some open stance FHs in video right after Fed, in those examples he does not rotate right leg/foot forward.

I think max power from fh comes when shoulders do not rotate through contact. Fed is a perfect example, shoulder turn pauses, arm continues forward, then more shoulder/torso rotation after contact in follow through. I'm curious if your coach is promoting rotating torso/shoulders at contact.

]

BBP I am not sure I can explain the more technical details, but what the coach is trying to teach is this (like you see in the video fro Brian Dubal):

- Have a forward movement with your body in your forehand (and backhand too) to get more power and a more dynamic approach - (most RC players just stand still, and arm the ball even with backweight)
- Move move move, smalls adjustment steps all the time, dance around the ball.
- Lower your body position, be closer to the ground to better push off with your legs.
- Be fluent and relaxed in your strokes.

He is trying to teach us to use our whole body much more in our strokes (not just the forehand), be more dynamic, move better (footwork plays a big part in his training).

We also work a lot on open stands in both FH and BH, when pulled wide - proper footwork is very important here.

I am not saying this is the only way, but this is the style he teaches. I can fore sure see the effect in my own groundstrokes, now suddenly I got what is called easy power where I can hit a heavy ball without effort. I think is is kind of when you hit against these skinny junior players (without much muscle mass) and they can hit with a lot of power on the ball, they can only do this if they use their whole body and not just the arm.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Cheers, Toby

 

[ByeByePoly]

BBP I am not sure I can explain the more technical details, but what the coach is trying to teach is this (like you see in the video fro Brian Dubal):

- Have a forward movement with your body in your forehand (and backhand too) to get more power and a more dynamic approach - (most RC players just stand still, and arm the ball even with backweight)
- Move move move, smalls adjustment steps all the time, dance around the ball.
- Lower your body position, be closer to the ground to better push off with your legs.
- Be fluent and relaxed in your strokes.

He is trying to teach us to use our whole body much more in our strokes (not just the forehand), be more dynamic, move better (footwork plays a big part in his training).

We also work a lot on open stands in both FH and BH, when pulled wide - proper footwork is very important here.

I am not saying this is the only way, but this is the style he teaches. I can fore sure see the effect in my own groundstrokes, now suddenly I got what is called easy power where I can hit a heavy ball without effort. I think is is kind of when you hit against these skinny junior players (without much muscle mass) and they can hit with a lot of power on the ball, they can only do this if they use their whole body and not just the arm.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Cheers, Toby

Thanks for reply. If you watch the Peter Clark Fed video I posted, he talks about the square stance for FHs you can move forward to. The modern game changed a lot, and open stance uses rotation as a replacement for weight transfer (moving forward) when pinned back deep on baseline with modern topspin game.

Just guessing, I assume the coach is saying use the weight transfer (square stance) every time you can ... don't get complacent with open all the time. If so ... makes total sense. I added the semi open fh several years ago, and it's very easy to overuse it. When I started going back to hitting more weight transfer FHs ... much easier for me to hit pace.

 

[tomato123]

However tha Rich Macci video alone is perhaps worth it all - 6:50 and onwards, perhaps best tip ever.... on the importants of staying relaxed.

I saw this about a week ago as well, and it's interesting how there are so many instructional videos out there that pretty much talk about the same thing, but some videos just make a bigger impact than others... I watched tons of Feel Tennis videos that emphasizes relaxation and relaxed strokes as the #1 focus, and they are all great videos, but for some reason watching this one actually translated the most into me relaxing a whole lot more into my shots in my next outing. Maybe there were other factors in play that translated into actual change in my court behavior and I'm sure different videos connect well with different players, but this was great instruction nonetheless.