ATP to Likely Hold Masters 1000 Event Ahead of Wimbledon Championships 2021

Drob

Professional
Caution on Halle. Let's make sure they make sure that Federer doesn't own a big chunk of the Halle tournament, through his management company. He already has the Laver Cup firmly on the ATP schedule. There needs to be a limit.
 

Gerco

Rookie
Before choosing wich tournament gets the upgrade they´ll have to choose wich one to downgrade, so following this line of thought I think that 3 clay M-1000 before RG could be a bit too much.
 

jondice

Rookie
Take away Paris and move it to grass just before Wimby. Move Wimby back a week. The Paris Masters is a joke. No one likes it. Move up the Finals and give players another week at the end of the season.

Having a grass Masters would be so damn cool. And I'm a Rafa fan, btw, so my intentions are pure! I think it's better for the game to have grass in play more.
 

Robert F

Professional
I've thought about this before. Would like one extra week of grass

RG
2 ATP 250s on grass
2 ATP 500s on grass
1 ATP 1000 on grass
2 ATP 250s on grass
Wimby

Just how I would do it. So the bigger stars can have a week off between RG and the 500s, play back to back weeks, then another week off until Wimbledon. I think it would work.
Great idea. This might also let some of the lesser players be in better shape for grass and make it more competitive across the whole tournament.
Would injuries be a concern in a bigger grass season?

I think putting it a country without a big event makes the most sense to grow the sport. Rejuvenate German Tennis. Or is there another place to plant some grass?
 

James P

Legend
Great idea. This might also let some of the lesser players be in better shape for grass and make it more competitive across the whole tournament.
Would injuries be a concern in a bigger grass season?

I think putting it a country without a big event makes the most sense to grow the sport. Rejuvenate German Tennis. Or is there another place to plant some grass?
I do like the idea of giving Germany, specifically Hamburg, another Masters. But I'm open to whatever would work. Anyway, it's more of a mental exercise as I doubt it would happen. I think I would push every tournament in the summer hardcourt season a week back until Washington, downgrade Canada to a 500, and play it side by side alongside Washington as a warmup to Cincinnati and eventually the US Open.
 

tonylg

Legend
There MUST be a grass M1000.

It MUST NOT replace the only indoor M1000, which is the only potential carpet M1000.

Plenty of useless clay M1000s to choose from, just pick 1 (or 3).
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
The Bercy tournament made their court faster for Fed, but he didn't win. Then they slowed down the court - and he won.

L'Équipe, Nov.2, 2018 (Via Google translate): ¤¤ Director of the Bercy tournament from 2007 to 2011, Jean-François Caujolle, had a dream: Federer to win in Paris. He granted it, not hesitating to follow the wishes of the Swiss.
Director of the Bercy tournament talks:
"It was 2007, and since 2003 he [Federer] had not come to play the tournament. So, we contacted his team and asked him why he was not coming. It turned out that he did not like the type of surface we had that time (carpet). He advised us to contact an Austrian company that manufactured a type of resin similar to the one they used in the Vienna tournament. We fulfilled his wishes and did so. We contacted the company and changed the surface. When he came to Paris, he realized that there was really not much difference between the courts of the circuit and he told me that it was similar to those of Indian Wells and Miami, where he had lost twice against Guillermo Cañas.
So I started looking for materials that would cause a lower ball bounce and make the game faster. In 2010, we managed to build the fastest court in the world. This surface was much better, it clearly suited to Federer's game more than to Nadal's (smiles). The funny thing is that in that year, players like Ljubicic or Isner lost in the first round. The court did not favor the great servers but the best volleyers. [But Federer did not win the tournament.] Finally, in 2011 Federer was able to win the tournament. So, the court was slowed down a bit but I would say that it was still the fastest of all." ¤¤
Nadal devotee you're cheating TT readers, this garbage is not related to the thread discussion
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
I think Hingis and Agassi both said that the more you play on grass the worse your groundstrokes become. So they didn't play grasscourt events before Wimbledon.
Djokovic doesn't play before Wimbledon either, and Nadal recently has also avoided lead-ups.
So I don't like the idea of scheduling a Masters event just before Wimbledon, given that some very elite players just prefer training and not playing a tournament before Wimbledon.
 

tonylg

Legend
I think Hingis and Agassi both said that the more you play on grass the worse your groundstrokes become. So they didn't play grasscourt events before Wimbledon.
Djokovic doesn't play before Wimbledon either, and Nadal recently has also avoided lead-ups.
So I don't like the idea of scheduling a Masters event just before Wimbledon, given that some very elite players just prefer training and not playing a tournament before Wimbledon.
Djokodal has another 11 months of the year suited to their baseline botting style.

Would a little bit of variety really hurt that much?
 

Milanez82

Professional
Oh, and does this mean that Djokovic will lose the double career golden masters record?!

:eek:
It will become his new goal after attaining 21 slams and holding year end number one 7 times

Its an obvious ploy by ATP to give him fresh new challenges
 

Thriller

Hall of Fame
Well, london isn't the whole UK tbh.
There are regional variations particuarly where property prices are concerned. Fuel costs and alcohol are other things I notice are generally cheaper when I leave London for other parts of the UK, but in general the cost of living in the UK is very high. Apart from the search for better weather, one of the main attractions of a foreign holiday is that in general your money goes a lot further than it would at a UK seaside resort in places like Devon and Cornwall.
 

Rafa4LifeEver

Hall of Fame
There are regional variations particuarly where property prices are concerned. Fuel costs and alcohol are other things I notice are generally cheaper when I leave London for other parts of the UK, but in general the cost of living in the UK is very high. Apart from the search for better weather, one of the main attractions of a foreign holiday is that in general your money goes a lot further than it would at a UK seaside resort in places like Devon and Cornwall.
I'm from Suffolk, mate. Wbu??
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
I've thought about this before. Would like one extra week of grass

RG
2 ATP 250s on grass
2 ATP 500s on grass
1 ATP 1000 on grass
2 ATP 250s on grass
Wimby

Just how I would do it. So the bigger stars can have a week off between RG and the 500s, play back to back weeks, then another week off until Wimbledon. I think it would work.
Brilliant! It’s absurd that we don’t have a single grass Masters! Isn’t that the surface tennis was born on?
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
In the 1990s Germany had two Super Nines, the YEC and the Grand Slam Cup. It is weird that Germany went from being overrepresented to almost zilch. Making Halle an M 1000 would be swell. The tour needs a grass Masters for sure. The only problem with going to 10 is it opens up an excuse to go to 11 someday. If they increased to 10 along with an non-repealable rule that the Association may never have more than 10, that might be alright.

Or, I think all but IW and Italian Open should rotate off. In other words, each of the other eight tournaments would have to take a haircut every eighth year.
Would it be impossible to expand Masters to 12/yr and make Halle and Queens Masters?
 

thomasferrett

Hall of Fame
Why don't they condense the grass season into one day - and on that day, a Futures-level charity exhibition can be held in place of Wimbledon?
 

Drob

Professional
Would it be impossible to expand Masters to 12/yr and make Halle and Queens Masters?
Nadalgaenger -

Sounds like you are in earnest, not jesting.

I would hate to see such a thing. As it is with the Nine, there are terrible distortions in the way most knowledgeable fans view the relative accomplishments among players throughout history. Because of transportation difficulties in the old days; the amateur/pro split; the unorganized circuits from 1968 to 1990; and the fact that Slam counts became much more important ca. 2000, all the pre-1990s players get the short end of the stick. Nobody talks about their Masters 1000s because there wasn't such a system, although there certainly were lots of tournaments equivalent to M 1000s. But nobody counts those up.

If, for example, one does the laborious exercise of seriously comparing old tournaments which approximate or equal (or better) a Masters 1000, one sees that Rod Laver still has the most Big Titles of any player in history. But the ATP or tennis press is never going to say that.

That is just one example. Another: Ivan Lendl has at least an equal number of M 1000-type titles with Roger Federer. But Ivan will never be credited that way in the mainstream press.

So, it is a great system the Masters 1000s. But for heaven's sake, it should not be increased to give additional "resume inflation" to future champions. They have enough of that as it is.

I agree with you on the need for a grass court Masters. And I sort of reluctantly agree with those posters who are saying it could replace one of the clay-court Masters (Madrid or Monte Carlo, the latter of which would be a shame). And you saw my other ideas.
 
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BGod

Legend
It seems only numerically logical to have 10 Masters tournaments and yes having 1 on grass while the season is extended by a week.

A refresher:

Week 1: Stuttgart
Week 2: Halle & Queens
Week 3: Eastbourne & Mallorca
Week 4-5: Wimbledon
Week 6: Hall of Fame

Now what you want to do is simple here. Have Queens moved up to a Masters played in week 3-4 and Wimbledon be weeks 5-6. Extending by 2 weeks goes too much in the USO hard court season which cannot be tinkered with due to Labour Day Weekend. Now I know it might sound unfair to have England host a Masters and a Slam but it's clearly less travel with Germany now having clear two events on the calendar instead of a split with Queens. The Queens tournament would also not be a full two weeks obviously, more like starting on a Saturday or whatever. So it's entirely possible to play Halle-Queens-Wimbledon with a total 3,500 points on offer.
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Nadalgaenger -

Sounds like you are in earnest, not jesting.

I would hate to see such a thing. As it is with the Nine, there are terrible distortions in the way most knowledgeable fans view the relative accomplishments among players throughout history. Because of transportation difficulties in the old days; the amateur/pro split; the unorganized circuits from 1968 to 1990; and the fact that Slam counts became much more important ca. 2000, all the pre-1990s players get the short end of the stick. Nobody talks about their Masters 1000s because there wasn't such a system, although there certainly were lots of tournaments equivalent to M 1000s. But nobody counts those up.

If, for example, one does the laborious exercise of seriously comparing old tournaments which approximate or equal (or better) a Masters 1000, one sees that Rod Laver still has the most Big Titles of any player in history. But the ATP or tennis press is never going to say that.

That is just one example. Another: Ivan Lendl has at least an equal number of M 1000-type titles with Roger Federer. But Ivan will never be credited that way in the mainstream press.

So, it is a great system the Masters 1000s. But for heaven's sake, it should not be increased to give additional "resume inflation" to future champions. They have enough of that as it is.

I agree with you on the need for a grass court Masters. And I sort of reluctantly agree with those posters who are saying it could replace one of the clay-court Masters (Madrid or Monte Carlo, the latter of which would be a shame). And you saw my other ideas.
I don’t think it’s ever an apples to apples comparison.

i mean Murray had a similar number of Masters toPete...
 
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