ATP World Tour Finals 2014- General Discussion Thread

Who is going to win the WTF?


  • Total voters
    128

merwy

G.O.A.T.
Wait, so what happens now? Kei beat Ferrer but does it even count? I want Kei to go through, together with Fed.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Kei played brilliantly in that 3rd set.

If he shows that form to Djokovic, he might have a chance to push Djokovic.
Djoko's in his own godmode, true. But if Nishi can play 3 sets like he played the 3rd, he can even beat Djoko. Big ask. But it's possible.

Great match, finally a 3-setter. Love Ferrer's fight and Nishi's ball striking. He could even volley today
 

FedererDropShot

Hall of Fame
Wait, so what happens now? Kei beat Ferrer but does it even count? I want Kei to go through, together with Fed.

If Federer wins at least 1 set, Kei goes through with him.

If Federer wins in straights, Kei goes through with him.

If Murray wins in straights, Kei doesn't go through.

Basically, Kei will hope that Federer wins at least 1 set.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Wait, so what happens now? Kei beat Ferrer but does it even count? I want Kei to go through, together with Fed.

If Murray wins in 2, he's through together with Fed, I believe. If Murray wins in 3, we start counting games between Murray and Nishi, I believe. Hmm. Above might be more correct than mine
 

tudwell

G.O.A.T.
Wait, so what happens now? Kei beat Ferrer but does it even count? I want Kei to go through, together with Fed.

If Federer beats Murray, he and Kei will advance. If Murray beats Federer in straights, he and Federer will advance. If Murray beats Federer in three, Federer will advance first and it will come down to games won % to determine whether Murray or Nishikori advances.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Down 0-4, 0-30. What does Ferrer do? Fold like the rest of them? Wins the game, gets 5 BP in the next and almost makes the match close again.
#Fighter!!

Great play by Kei to hold too

If you gave some of these bigger ball strikers Ferrer's mentality they'd have achieved a lot more IMO.
 

tudwell

G.O.A.T.
If Federer wins at least 1 set, Kei goes through with him.

I don't think that's true. Head-to-head only comes into play if two players are tied in win-loss. But in this case, three players would be 2-1. Federer would have the best sets won percentage, but it would come down to games won to determine whether Murray or Nishikori goes through.

Nevermind: I double-checked the rules and it reverts to head-to-head if two players are tied in sets won %.
 
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D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
http://www.barclaysatpworldtourfinals.com/en/scores-centre/2014-scenarios

Singles Group B qualification scenarios

1) Regardless of score, if R. FEDERER defeats A. MURRAY then R. FEDERER wins the group and K. NISHIKORI qualifies 2nd.
2) If A. MURRAY defeats R. FEDERER in 2 then A. MURRAY wins the group and R. FEDERER qualifies 2nd.
3) If A. MURRAY defeats R. FEDERER in 3 sets then R. FEDERER wins the group and K. NISHIKORI qualifies 2nd.

The interesting thing will be Murray's response if he loses the first set.
 

tudwell

G.O.A.T.
The interesting thing will be Murray's response if he loses the first set.

I imagine he'll still fight for the win. He might not make the semis, but 200 points is a lot. It's more than a Masters QF or a slam R16. Hell, it's almost as much as a win in a 250 event, and we saw how hard Murray fought for those titles late in the season.
 

Carsomyr

Legend
The interesting thing will be Murray's response if he loses the first set.

The interesting thing is that they both have motivation to try their hardest in the first (and second if Murray wins the first). The third could be a blowout, though.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I imagine he'll still fight for the win. He might not make the semis, but 200 points is a lot. It's more than a Masters QF or a slam R16. Hell, it's almost as much as a win in a 250 event, and we saw how hard Murray fought for those titles late in the season.
Don't you win 300 points if you win a match? I mean you gain 1500 points if you win the title undefeated and 1200 if you lose 1 match. This means that 1 match has a value of 300 points
 

Pouet156

Rookie
I don't think that's true. Head-to-head only comes into play if two players are tied in win-loss. But in this case, three players would be 2-1. Federer would have the best sets won percentage, but it would come down to games won to determine whether Murray or Nishikori goes through.

Nevermind: I double-checked the rules and it reverts to head-to-head if two players are tied in sets won %.

Games won are only looked at when the three tied players have the same set winning ratio. When one of the three has a better ratio, it comes down to head to head for the two others.
 
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Emiliano55

Professional
Fed-Muzz will be a really great match, with Murray needing to win in straight and Federer knowing that he has to put a fight so he doesn't face Djokovic in semis.

What a shame I can't see it, it will be a great battle.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
If you gave some of these bigger ball strikers Ferrer's mentality they'd have achieved a lot more IMO.

Yes, he's come pretty close to maxing out his talent. At times he's a bit too humble off court speaking about his chances vs. the big 4, but he plays them as tough as he can and has beaten everyone but Federer quite a few times.
Don't you win 300 points if you win a match? I mean you gain 1500 points if you win the title undefeated and 1200 if you lose 1 match. This means that 1 match has a value of 300 points

Not quite, two wins are not equal.
RR win = 200 points per match
Semi win = 400 points
Final win = 500 points
 

Phonco

Rookie
The thing I'm confused about is how come there is not outcome where Nishikori can come out on top in the group or better yet, how is Murray able to win the group?

If we take sets won, and Nishikori and Murray win in straights, then both players should be equal in sets won. In fact, Fed, Murray and Nishikori would all have lost the same ratio of sets won. I would assume it goes to game % ratio where I feel it favors Federer since he has dropped the least games (depending on how todays matches go). So how is it that Murray has a chance to win the group/advance and not Nishikori.

Is there some kind of bonus for beating the top guy in the group?
 

TheMusicLover

G.O.A.T.
The thing I'm confused about is how come there is not outcome where Nishikori can come out on top in the group or better yet, how is Murray able to win the group?

If we take sets won, and Nishikori and Murray win in straights, then both players should be equal in sets won. In fact, Fed, Murray and Nishikori would all have lost the same ratio of sets won. I would assume it goes to game % ratio where I feel it favors Federer since he has dropped the least games (depending on how todays matches go). So how is it that Murray has a chance to win the group/advance and not Nishikori.

Is there some kind of bonus for beating the top guy in the group?
The ONLY way for Murray to reach the SF is to beat Fed in straights. At least that's as far I understood.
 

Carsomyr

Legend
The thing I'm confused about is how come there is not outcome where Nishikori can come out on top in the group or better yet, how is Murray able to win the group?

If we take sets won, and Nishikori and Murray win in straights, then both players should be equal in sets won. In fact, Fed, Murray and Nishikori would all have lost the same ratio of sets won. I would assume it goes to game % ratio where I feel it favors Federer since he has dropped the least games (depending on how todays matches go). So how is it that Murray has a chance to win the group/advance and not Nishikori.

Is there some kind of bonus for beating the top guy in the group?

Kei missed his chance to take the group when he lost the first set against Ferrer. If Murray wins against Fed in straights, it goes down to sets won/lost in a three-way tie, which would eliminate Kei. Then it's H2H, and since Murray and Fed are the only ones to qualify at that point, it goes to Murray.
 

jwjh

Legend
The thing I'm confused about is how come there is not outcome where Nishikori can come out on top in the group or better yet, how is Murray able to win the group?

If we take sets won, and Nishikori and Murray win in straights, then both players should be equal in sets won. In fact, Fed, Murray and Nishikori would all have lost the same ratio of sets won. I would assume it goes to game % ratio where I feel it favors Federer since he has dropped the least games (depending on how todays matches go). So how is it that Murray has a chance to win the group/advance and not Nishikori.

Is there some kind of bonus for beating the top guy in the group?

Nishi didnt win in straight sets today that's why.
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
http://www.barclaysatpworldtourfinals.com/en/scores-centre/2014-scenarios

Singles Group B qualification scenarios

1) Regardless of score, if R. FEDERER defeats A. MURRAY then R. FEDERER wins the group and K. NISHIKORI qualifies 2nd.
2) If A. MURRAY defeats R. FEDERER in 2 then A. MURRAY wins the group and R. FEDERER qualifies 2nd.
3) If A. MURRAY defeats R. FEDERER in 3 sets then R. FEDERER wins the group and K. NISHIKORI qualifies 2nd.

Does anyone else remember the 2009 WTF where Fed played his last RR match against Delpo and Murray's qualification depended on it ? It came down to percentages and after Delpo beat Fed in three , Delpo and Murray were both unsure which of them had made it. Murray famously tweeted "I think I am audi but the rules aren't clear...." or something along those lines.

Apparently Delpo edged out Murray by a single game and some of the Murray fans accused Federer of scheming to ensure that Murray doesn't qualify for the semi by winning/losing just the right number of games in his loss (I mean, really ? WTF ? :lol: ) IIRC, someone in the audience even held a placard accusing Fed during his semi

I found a link for those who are interested :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8378944.stm
 

Carsomyr

Legend
Does anyone else remember the 2009 WTF where Fed played his last RR match against Delpo and Murray's qualification depended on it ? It came down to percentages and after Delpo beat Fed in three , Delpo and Murray were both unsure which of them had made it. Murray famously tweeted "I think I am audi but the rules aren't clear...." or something along those lines.

Apparently Delpo edged out Murray by a single game and some of the Murray fans accused Federer of scheming to ensure that Murray doesn't qualify for the semi by winning/losing just the right number of games in his loss (I mean, really ? WTF ? :lol: ) IIRC, someone in the audience even held a placard accusing Fed during his semi

I found a link for those who are interested :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8378944.stm

One of my favortes: Tanks for the memories!:lol:
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
@Mike,
it was Monday as late as last year, so you're almost correct. But now there's a week between Paris and London, so there's room for the tournament to start on a Sunday instead of Monday.
I think even in 2012 it was played on monday,with the semis on sunday. I don't remeber why there was such a change in the schedule that year.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Does anyone else remember the 2009 WTF where Fed played his last RR match against Delpo and Murray's qualification depended on it ? It came down to percentages and after Delpo beat Fed in three , Delpo and Murray were both unsure which of them had made it. Murray famously tweeted "I think I am audi but the rules aren't clear...." or something along those lines.

Apparently Delpo edged out Murray by a single game and some of the Murray fans accused Federer of scheming to ensure that Murray doesn't qualify for the semi by winning/losing just the right number of games in his loss (I mean, really ? WTF ? :lol: ) IIRC, someone in the audience even held a placard accusing Fed during his semi

I found a link for those who are interested :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8378944.stm
You cannot help but think it's somehow related to Murray giving his all to knock Fed out of the tournament in 2008 after he himself had qualified:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/nov/14/tennis-murray-federer-masters-cup
No love lost between the two of them back in the day. Think it's better now though
I think even in 2012 it was played on monday,with the semis on sunday. I don't remeber why there was such a change in the schedule that year.
I was there, so I should know. Think you're right, but not a 100 % sure.
 
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Mainad

Bionic Poster
Does anyone else remember the 2009 WTF where Fed played his last RR match against Delpo and Murray's qualification depended on it ? It came down to percentages and after Delpo beat Fed in three , Delpo and Murray were both unsure which of them had made it. Murray famously tweeted "I think I am audi but the rules aren't clear...." or something along those lines.

Apparently Delpo edged out Murray by a single game and some of the Murray fans accused Federer of scheming to ensure that Murray doesn't qualify for the semi by winning/losing just the right number of games in his loss (I mean, really ? WTF ? :lol: ) IIRC, someone in the audience even held a placard accusing Fed during his semi

I found a link for those who are interested :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8378944.stm

Lol...but some people on here are always telling me how much Delpo likes to help Murray out in big tournaments so why wasn't he feeling so 'generous' back then? :wink:
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Does anyone else remember the 2009 WTF where Fed played his last RR match against Delpo and Murray's qualification depended on it ? It came down to percentages and after Delpo beat Fed in three , Delpo and Murray were both unsure which of them had made it. Murray famously tweeted "I think I am audi but the rules aren't clear...." or something along those lines.

Apparently Delpo edged out Murray by a single game and some of the Murray fans accused Federer of scheming to ensure that Murray doesn't qualify for the semi by winning/losing just the right number of games in his loss (I mean, really ? WTF ? :lol: ) IIRC, someone in the audience even held a placard accusing Fed during his semi

I found a link for those who are interested :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8378944.stm
Well the WTF in 2009 was very competitive IMO. Soderling,Del Potro,Murray,Djokovic,Federer,Davydenko =>6 players with 2 wins in RR stage. Must have been very hard to select only 4 of them
 

Carsomyr

Legend

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Got me another one as well in the mean time. ;)

I guess the lagging of streams actually shows the interest in this match to true tennis fans. ;)
Finally a DECENT match, in stead of a blow-out!

But since you have the same problem with acestream as me, this might work for you too. Sopcast, wiziwig. Try it :)
Amazing that it took an ailing back and a ruthless Murray to knock Fed out of the RR for the first (and thus far only) time in his career.
Indeed ;-)
 

tennisdad65

Hall of Fame
Novak will have to play on Fri/Sat/Sun, whereas Fed/Kei/Murray will get a days rest. Seems unfair to me. But I doubt it is gonna matter the way Novak is playing.
 

tudwell

G.O.A.T.
You cannot help but think it's somehow related to Murray giving his all to knock Fed out of the tournament in 2008 after he himself had qualified:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/nov/14/tennis-murray-federer-masters-cup
No love lost between the two of them back in the day. Think it's better now though

I remember Federer's struggles with the likes of Murray and Simon in late 2008, but I had forgotten that match was so crazy! Seems like quite an effort form Murray, and he really was the form player that fall.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I remember Federer's struggles with the likes of Murray and Simon in late 2008, but I had forgotten that match was so crazy! Seems like quite an effort form Murray, and he really was the form player that fall.

he was and he blew the WTF by going all out vs federer ....
 
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