Attack the volley like you are trying to spear your enemy

[DefensiveTennis]

Was playing some high quality doubles the last day and won. Three 5.5 level players and one 6.0 (ATP points). My doubles in not the best, I am improving but still not perfect.

My advice, when you are at net you should be attacking like a mad man, I tend to step forward and I think I am taking the volley early out in front but I was amazed when me and my partner were at the net and how he was taking all the volleys in the middle so much faster than me. He made me look like I was waiting for the ball to come to me. He was basically falling over the net hitting volleys. Especially on slower balls I was waiting but he would go and attack it with the ball less than a meter from the net and very low. He would just attack relentlessly and punch it down the middle of the court.

My tip to all players, when you are crossing or know the opponent will hit a passing shot and not a lob, step forward for the volley, completely commit and fall into the volley, keep your hand movement slow ( no swinging) but throw your body into the volley. Attack it like you are trying to stab your enemy, doubles is a game of aggression get in there and kill it!

Why does this work?

1)Better volley technique, same power no swinging
2)Closer to net so less errors
3) Bad volleys like ones that bounce straight into the ground are actually effective as they bounce twice before opponent gets them. Net play is not about grace or style, get in there scramble and just block the ball back.
4)Rush opponent

Exception on first volley. First doubles volley prepare early, split step and take your time and dont go for too much, just put it in play as deep as you can. Then attack attack attack and smash the ball down their throats! :twisted:

 

[arche3]

Wait. Your a coach of high level players correct? And you post this?
I get what your trying to say but its very long and convoluted.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Wait. Your a coach of high level players correct? And you post this?
I get what your trying to say but its very long and convoluted.

It was long because it was an anecdote, in tennis you are always learning. Sure I have told my players to attack the volley but I was surprised at the level I was playing at the guys are really going for it far more than me. They make me look slow. I need to increase my intensity at the net.

It works at all levels though.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Unlike other posters I dont post technical jibber and post links of tennis slow motion videos and diagrams and I dont post one or two sentences that make very little sense and never elaborate on my posts for fear of being wrong.

 

[dominikk1985]

Was playing some high quality doubles the last day and won. Three 5.5 level players and one 6.0 (ATP points). My doubles in not the best, I am improving but still not perfect.

My advice, when you are at net you should be attacking like a mad man, I tend to step forward and I think I am taking the volley early out in front but I was amazed when me and my partner were at the net and how he was taking all the volleys in the middle so much faster than me. He made me look like I was waiting for the ball to come to me. He was basically falling over the net hitting volleys. Especially on slower balls I was waiting but he would go and attack it with the ball less than a meter from the net and very low. He would just attack relentlessly and punch it down the middle of the court.

My tip to all players, when you are crossing or know the opponent will hit a passing shot and not a lob, step forward for the volley, completely commit and fall into the volley, keep your hand movement slow ( no swinging) but throw your body into the volley. Attack it like you are trying to stab your enemy, doubles is a game of aggression get in there and kill it!

Why does this work?

1)Better volley technique, same power no swinging
2)Closer to net so less errors
3) Bad volleys like ones that bounce straight into the ground are actually effective as they bounce twice before opponent gets them. Net play is not about grace or style, get in there scramble and just block the ball back.
4)Rush opponent

Exception on first volley. First doubles volley prepare early, split step and take your time and dont go for too much, just put it in play as deep as you can. Then attack attack attack and smash the ball down their throats! :twisted:

I would say generally in dubs feel shots don't work as well as in singles because there is less court to cover and players are at the front of the net.

ideally you want to place the ball well but generally when you get a chance to rip the ball do it. when all players are at the net you have very little time to react so a low and hard ball even if it is not that well placed will trouble the opponent.

the last thing you want is leaving a floater up there so always hit with pace and ideally on a downward angle. if you have to hit the ball up usually you are toast.

I'm not really a good dubs player because I like to dink and angle my volleys a lot while other guys just whack that volley.

 

[arche3]

It was long because it was an anecdote, in tennis you are always learning. Sure I have told my players to attack the volley but I was surprised at the level I was playing at the guys are really going for it far more than me. They make me look slow. I need to increase my intensity at the net.

It works at all levels though.

how about nominal rec players at 3.5 level who can't volley. And don't posses an overhead? A lot of great volley players on the atp don't look intense. Maybe super intensity is a misleading word for a coach to give?
I think the better word is fluid. Smooth and controlled. Not aggro crazy person falling into the net.
Suffice it to say if control is what a volley needs falling into the ball is not the right visual to give. Let me give you my personal opinion from coaching a player to a top 200 atp ranking. Flow into the volley. Yes. Flow.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

how about nominal rec players at 3.5 level who can't volley. And don't posses an overhead? A lot of great volley players on the atp don't look intense. Maybe super intensity is a misleading word for a coach to give?
I think the better word is fluid. Smooth and controlled. Not aggro crazy person falling into the net.
Suffice it to say if control is what a volley needs falling into the ball is not the right visual to give. Let me give you my personal opinion from coaching a player to a top 200 atp ranking. Flow into the volley. Yes. Flow.

Well yes the volley is a controlled movement, but you gotta be really quick at higher levels. If you ever see how quick the bryan brothers move at the net, they are all over the net like a rash.

This thread is not so much technical advice on the volley but moreso just a realisation I had whilst playing.

Look at the second doubles point by llodra, the speed and quickness with which he is trying to step in. The key in doubles is trying to get on top of the net so as to hit down into the court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vm5_iHLTvO0#t=291

I say super intense falling into the net but that is just an exaggeration to get point across, most people dont attack the net with purpose and energy, you got to really go for it.

3.5s just need to work on punching the volley with a continetal grip and make sure contact point is out in front. When they can do that well, they can start increasing the intensity with which they move forward and attack the volley.

 

[dominikk1985]

yes in a 4 man net duell the team who hits down first usually wins the point.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

yes in a 4 man net duell the team who hits down first usually wins the point.

Doubles is like war. Your army has to move forward and force the enemy to retreat.

 

[arche3]

Well yes the volley is a controlled movement, but you gotta be really quick at higher levels. If you ever see how quick the bryan brothers move at the net, they are all over the net like a rash.

This thread is not so much technical advice on the volley but moreso just a realisation I had whilst playing.

Look at the second doubles point by llodra, the speed and quickness with which he is trying to step in. The key in doubles is trying to get on top of the net so as to hit down into the court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vm5_iHLTvO0#t=291

I say super intense falling into the net but that is just an exaggeration to get point across, most people dont attack the net with purpose and energy, you got to really go for it.

3.5s just need to work on punching the volley with a continetal grip and make sure contact point is out in front. When they can do that well, they can start increasing the intensity with which they move forward and attack the volley.

Well I don't coach rec players. I only work with top world ranked juniors and atp pros. Maybe for your rec coaching "fall into the ball" works. My experience when I was on the atp tour as a coach was that the flow into the volley is more than enough to impart control and added forward motion into the ball. And you still get the balance of the shot. Which imo is the most important thing for a atp pro facing balls with serious rpms. Flow and balance.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Well I don't coach rec players. I only work with top world ranked juniors and atp pros. Maybe for your rec coaching "fall into the ball" works. My experience when I was on the atp tour as a coach was that the flow into the volley is more than enough to impart control and added forward motion into the ball. And you still get the balance of the shot. Which imo is the most important thing for a atp pro facing balls with serious rpms. Flow and balance.

Oh Ok. Mats Wilander agrees with me though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3_UynM42EY

 

[jasonmcmann]

I agree with DefensiveTennis' point about being aggressive at the net... usually recreation player does not cover the middle of the net enough.

However, 'punching out in front' is a 'myth'. It often cause play to do a stiff and disconnected motion that produces poor volleys.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

I agree with DefensiveTennis' point about being aggressive at the net... usually recreation player does not cover the middle of the net enough.

However, 'punching out in front' is a 'myth'. It often cause play to do a stiff and disconnected motion that produces poor volleys.

Its just a word used to explain a volley. Many of the best coaches say this but they do not do a stiff rigid punch in their demo.

 

[arche3]

Oh Ok. Mats Wilander agrees with me though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3_UynM42EY

First of all falling into the volley is not the same as falling onto the net. Which is what you said to do. Onto the net like a crazy person. How can you see this as the same?

You watched the wilander video and come on here telling us your discover but botch the true meaning? Wilander is not saying the same thing you are.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

First of all falling into the volley is not the same as falling onto the net. Which is what you said to do. Onto the net like a crazy person. How can you see this as the same?

You watched the wilander video and come on here telling us your discover but botch the true meaning? Wilander is not saying the same thing you are.

I watched that the other night but it had nothing to do with my thread.

I noticed how the best doubles players attack the net relentlessly, they are so quick and sharp and take the ball out of the air as early as possible and never wait for the ball to come to them.

Dont take everything I say literally, attacking like a mad man and charging at the net is wrong. It was just used to explain how quick and aggressive you have to be.

 

[arche3]

I watched that the other night but it had nothing to do with my thread.

I noticed how the best doubles players attack the net relentlessly, they are so quick and sharp and take the ball out of the air as early as possible and never wait for the ball to come to them.

Well fast, sharp and early is not the same as falling into the net. Like I said. For a coach you give instruction in a round about way that confuses the matter. If you aspire to coach atp pros like myself you need to be clear and sharp. To the point and not let your personal prejudice of your skill or lack of skill cloud your meaning. Are you coaching little kids? Maybe thats why you over exaggerate to the extreme. Fall into the net. I dont like that idea.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Well fast, sharp and early is not the same as falling into the net. Like I said. For a coach you give instruction in a round about way that confuses the matter. If you aspire to coach atp pros like myself you need to be clear and sharp. To the point and not let your personal prejudice of your skill or lack of skill cloud your meaning. Are you coaching little kids? Maybe thats why you over exaggerate to the extreme. Fall into the net. I dont like that idea.

I coach beginner kids, adults and advanced juniors. I am clear in my coaching but I just had a eureka moment playing the last day when I realised how swift and clinical the volleyers were, so I ranted on. I am just trying to get across a point.

Many points played out with me at the net with a ball hit down the centre, I had the forehand volley but was slow to react and my partner comes charging in and punches it deep down the middle. He was much faster than me, always moving forward attacking with great speed and intensity. Go for it all out attack and either win the point or lose it, the majority of doubles players at rec level are afraid and just stand still on their side and protect the line and do nothing.

 

[arche3]

I coach beginner kids, adults and advanced juniors. I am clear in my coaching but I just had a eureka moment playing the last day when I realised how swift and clinical the volleyers were, so I ranted on. I am just trying to get across a point.

Ok. Thats cool. If you want to progress in your coaching to the atp pro stage like myself just be more mindfull of what you say. If you coach kids all the time I can see how you need to over compensate. But even then it can get confusing because beginner's are basically sponges and wrong ideas can slow the learning.
I remember when one of my players won his first atp event he told me I was like a laser in my coaching. I brought him from outside the 1000 to under 200 in one year. Ill be glad to answer any coaching questions if you have them. I like to help inexperienced coaches.

 

[Ash_Smith]

I dont post one or two sentences that make very little sense

yeah you do :twisted:

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Ok. Thats cool. If you want to progress in your coaching to the atp pro stage like myself just be more mindfull of what you say. If you coach kids all the time I can see how you need to over compensate. But even then it can get confusing because beginner's are basically sponges and wrong ideas can slow the learning.
I remember when one of my players won his first atp event he told me I was like a laser in my coaching. I brought him from outside the 1000 to under 200 in one year. Ill be glad to answer any coaching questions if you have them. I like to help inexperienced coaches.

Wow, I have shadowed an ATP coach for a day but it would be a dream to be on the tour as a full time coach, you are very lucky.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

yeah you do :twisted:

Ash, I know I am not clincial in my explanation like others. I just type my train of thought. You dont like this thread?, you dont think I make a good point? Do you question my ability as a coach? If so then I have got a lot of money off suckers for being a crap coach!

 

[jasonmcmann]

Ash, I know I am not clincial in my explanation like others. I just type my train of thought. You dont like this thread?, you dont think I make a good point? Do you question my ability as a coach? If so then I have got a lot of money off suckers for being a crap coach!

DT - you are a good coach, but the above sounds quite defensive lol

 

[RetroSpin]

Ash, I know I am not clincial in my explanation like others. I just type my train of thought. You dont like this thread?, you dont think I make a good point? Do you question my ability as a coach? If so then I have got a lot of money off suckers for being a crap coach!

I think you made some good points in the OP. It's a common observation in many sports when one steps up a level. The speed of the game increases exponentially. Gradually, you adjust if you have the ability.

Your observations about the way they close on the net and attack are spot on. It's a different game at that level.

 

[MarinaHighTennis]

Wait. Your a coach of high level players correct? And you post this?
I get what your trying to say but its very long and convoluted.

Well i think he made really good points. Doubles is all about attacking the net and keeping your opponents thinking. Keep them guessing to get free errors

 

[Ash_Smith]

Ash, I know I am not clincial in my explanation like others. I just type my train of thought. You dont like this thread?, you dont think I make a good point? Do you question my ability as a coach? If so then I have got a lot of money off suckers for being a crap coach!

Nah, i'm just pulling your chain!

Sure the idea is sound - now maybe flesh out how/when players should move and best position themselves to make this kind of poach/interception more plausible/possible?

 

[Ballinbob]

This "flow volley" is a much better way to teach the volley IMO. Punching the volley doesn't make sense to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRh_ArCv9OM

 

[tennis_ocd]

I liked the story. Occasionally play with a quick 25 y.o. ex-college doubles player and am shocked at how quick and aggresive a net player can be... walk away thinking I play the net at half speed.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

I liked the story. Occasionally play with a quick 25 y.o. ex-college doubles player and am shocked at how quick and aggresive a net player can be... walk away thinking I play the net at half speed.

Yep. It is also from reading the game and anticipation which comes from natural instinct and experience playing doubles.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

This "flow volley" is a much better way to teach the volley IMO. Punching the volley doesn't make sense to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRh_ArCv9OM

Well, a flow volley to me is a first volley, most of the volleys at the net are punches. When you warm up volleys before a game do you not feel the pop and punching feeling like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p24aJacdKw

This is surely more like punching more than flowing dont you think?

 

[coaching32yrs]

Defensive: You are talking about playing with top, top players- beyond average D1 college players. At the mortal level when your tongue is hanging on the net- you get lobbed like crazy. When you get lobbed like crazy you have to backpedal and hit overheads, or your partner has to run them down.
Those 2 options do not produce a lot of great results at the mortal level.

 

[arche3]

Yep. It is also from reading the game and anticipation which comes from natural instinct and experience playing doubles.

Or just move faster? When you play better players you have to be quicker. There is no magic answer. Its simple.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Defensive: You are talking about playing with top, top players- beyond average D1 college players. At the mortal level when your tongue is hanging on the net- you get lobbed like crazy. When you get lobbed like crazy you have to backpedal and hit overheads, or your partner has to run them down.
Those 2 options do not produce a lot of great results at the mortal level.

I suppose, I know what you mean. Any level can still take the point though, which is to attack and be aggressive and take the ball out of the air as early as possible for your ability.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Or just move faster? When you play better players you have to be quicker. There is no magic answer. Its simple.

Yes, but I could be just as fast as Cash or Rafter but they would be able to read the play much quicker than me and be in the right place to put away volleys before I am even able to realise the ball is coming in my direction.

 

[arche3]

Yes, but I could be just as fast as Cash or Rafter but they would be able to read the play much quicker than me and be in the right place to put away volleys before I am even able to realise the ball is coming in my direction.

Thats because they played many more hours than you. Not because they have a secret.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Thats because they played many more hours than you. Not because they have a secret.

As I already said. Experience and natural instinct.

 

[arche3]

As I already said. Experience and natural instinct.

So not fall like a crazy person into the net?

 

[DefensiveTennis]

So not fall like a crazy person into the net?

This is only for high level players, not everyone is crazy enough to do it!

 

[Topspin Shot]

Repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true. OP is not a high level player. OP is not a coach. Period. And telling doubles players to attack the net like berserkers without any idea when or why to do so is not good advice.

 

[arche3]

Repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true. OP is not a high level player. OP is not a coach. Period. And telling doubles players to attack the net like berserkers without any idea when or why to do so is not good advice.

Plus I think if you touch the net while ball is in play you lose the point.

 

[jasonmcmann]

This "flow volley" is a much better way to teach the volley IMO. Punching the volley doesn't make sense to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRh_ArCv9OM

I adopted his 'catch and throw' method to teach my students and have had great results.

 

[5263]

Doubles is like war. Your army has to move forward and force the enemy to retreat.

so true if you can handle the lob....but many on here can't move like that they say....so limits their ability to come forward.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true. OP is not a high level player. OP is not a coach. Period. And telling doubles players to attack the net like berserkers without any idea when or why to do so is not good advice.

The thread explains itself, I was just getting a point across of how important it is to be proactive and aggressive in doubles. Luckily most understand the thread. Perhaps you need to read the whole thread again, many others raised some good points also.

 

[Topspin Shot]

The thread explains itself, I was just getting a point across of how important it is to be proactive and aggressive in doubles. Luckily most understand the thread. Perhaps you need to read the whole thread again, many others raised some good points also.

You're right. There are some good points in this thread. And if you want to be a productive member of the TT community, I'm fine with that. Just be honest about yourself. If you throw in the lies, I'm going to call you on it.

 

[BMC9670]

You're right. There are some good points in this thread. And if you want to be a productive member of the TT community, I'm fine with that. Just be honest about yourself. If you throw in the lies, I'm going to call you on it.

I would also add to stop starting every post with a reference to how "high-level" you are. If you have to constantly tell people how good you are… well, you probably aren't as good as you think you are.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

You're right. There are some good points in this thread. And if you want to be a productive member of the TT community, I'm fine with that. Just be honest about yourself. If you throw in the lies, I'm going to call you on it.

Ok, Il come clean with you on a detail. I dont play D1 tennis. I do play college tennis in Europe however. I am playing with guys on a regular level who are d1 tennis level and I am capable of playing d1 tennis, not at the top but d1 tennis all the same.

Im sorry I cant be uber serious all the time like you, sometimes I like to have fun on this site.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Ok, Il come clean with you on a detail. I dont play D1 tennis. I do play college tennis in Europe however. I am playing with guys on a regular level who are d1 tennis level and I am capable of playing d1 tennis, not at the top but d1 tennis all the same.

Im sorry I cant be uber serious all the time like you, sometimes I like to have fun on this site.

There's a difference between joking and lying. You're still lying.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

There's a difference between joking and lying. You're still lying.

Everything in last post in 100% true.

I left out the coaching thing for a reason. Do you believe I am a coach?

 

[Topspin Shot]

Everything in last post in 100% true.

I left out the coaching thing for a reason. Do you believe I am a coach?

No. 10char

 

[arche3]

No. 10char

Funny. He admitted he is making stuff up and then asks you if you believe him...

 

[BMC9670]

Ok, Il come clean with you on a detail. I dont play D1 tennis. I do play college tennis in Europe however. I am playing with guys on a regular level who are d1 tennis level and I am capable of playing d1 tennis, not at the top but d1 tennis all the same.

College tennis in Europe??? Care to elaborate…?