ATW help... 1st time trying pattern

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by krisdrum, Sep 13, 2017 at 6:47 AM.

  1. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    Hi all,
    Been doing alot of reading and watching video since getting my stringer a few weeks back and getting my first 2 piece job under my belt. I'm ready (maybe) for a new challenge... ATW.

    Frame: 16x21 Yonex Tour F 97
    USRSA 1 piece recommendation: 10' SS, 39' overall length, mains start at top of hoop

    My plan:
    SS - string 7 mains, run bottom cross and use starting clamp to hold in place until all crosses in, re-tension and tie-off
    LS - string 8 mains, run top cross down to 2nd bottom cross, run 8th SS main up, tie-off

    Flaws in the plan? Anything I should watch out for? Any adjustments in SS length I need to make? It is unclear if the USRSA recommendation already has length to execute a cross with SS, or should I assume mains only? Am I crazy to try this?
     
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  2. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    ??? Why ??? The mains end at the top of the hoop, so the stringing is a natural crosses top down.

    Frame V CORE TOUR F 97 [T=top of hoop, B=bottom of hoop]
    Range 50-65
    Lengths 20'M-20'C
    Pattern 16X21
    Mains Skipped 8T- 8B
    MTO 7T
    1st Cross 8T
    XTO 6T-11B

    If I wanted to practice an ATW, get a Radical MP since the mains end at the bottom and the 1st cross is at the top. Radicals are good to practice on since if you screwup, the hoop compresses.
     
    #2
  3. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    Ok, thanks. So stupid idea. Guess I missed a critical piece/parameter for ATW.

    So if the mains END at the top of hoop, stick to 2 piece? Good general rule to follow?

    Cutting out my playtest string tomorrow and giving either OGSheep or Velocity a try in this frame. Was thinking at least a 10lb bump up from where I have been liking poly. 57 for OGSheep? 55 for Velocity? Sound reasonable?
     
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  4. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    If mains end at top or head end of racquet, it is normally a natural 1 piece, or you can normally just string as a 2 piece, but no need for an ATW with mains ending at head.
    If mains end at throat end, then you string as 2 piece, or then use a 1 piece and use one of the ATW patterns for the 1 piece.
     
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  5. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    No. Wherever possible, you want to string the crosses top down - from the hoop towards the throat. So, if the mains end at the hoop, there's no problem to solve - you can string 1pc without atw. If the mains end at the throat, then you would need atw - in order to force stringing the crosses from the hoop towards the throat. Regardless of where the mains end, you can string any racquet 2pc.

    The tensions for OGSM and Velocity sound reasonable.
     
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  6. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    Thanks. I've obviously not read/watched enough. HA!

    So, I can do a standard 1 piece, just not an ATW 1 piece pattern.

    So with standard 1 piece, I would?:
    1) String 8 mains on each side
    2) Tie off SS at top of hoop after finishing mains on that side
    3) Weave crosses top - down using LS, tie-off at throat

    That seems much simpler than my original thought. I do tend to over-complicate things, or at least that is what my wife tells me.

    If the above is correct, I'm going to feel pretty confident the USRSA length recommendations are accurate, and start there.
     
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  7. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    Correct.

    10' might be a bit generous for the SS. But probably better to be safe than sorry on the first go around. If there's excess, you can measure it, and adjust accordingly on the next string job.
     
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  8. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    Awesome. Thanks everyone for saving me from an epic fail. I would have made a mess for no reason!
     
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  9. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    Leave 7 lengths on the left, weave 6 mains both sides, hold the left M6 with the starting clamp and continue ATW with the other end. Tie off in the 7H. Make sure that the first and the last crosses are the same.
     
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  10. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    Thanks. Based on input from others, ATW doesn't make a lot of sense on this frame. Any upside to ATW as you laid out compared to a standard 1 piece?
     
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  11. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    Mains end at the hoop. OP doesn't need ATW.
     
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  12. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    I didn't see any ATW from others' input. Left end ends at the left 6H, right end at the right 11T (third cross from the bottom). Not a single blocked hole. You go two times ATW, crosses are woven from top to bottom. What do you want more from an ATW? Simple and elegant.

    PS. Probably @esgee48 said the same, except that in my way, there are no skips.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017 at 2:29 AM
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  13. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    Thanks. The general consensus seemed to be ATW was not needed (and potentially overly complicated) and a standard 1 piece approach would be better.

    Hence my follow-up question on any benefit your ATW pattern would bring to the party. Sounds like no blocked holes is 1. Anything else?
     
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  14. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    I can think of less pressure on the frame because, if you start ATW earlier, at least 4 mains are being counterposed by additional crosses. It's also beneficial if you practice proportional stringing as there is less tensional difference between the subsequent mains and crosses than between individual mains or individual crosses. Also good for hybrid stringing for many reasons - more comfort if you use gut for the mains, or more economy if you prefer gut for the crosses.
     
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  15. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    Thanks. Appreciate the input. Good to know I have options. Probably do standard 1 piece tonight, but will keep this ATW in my back pocket.
     
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  16. lidoazndiabloboi

    lidoazndiabloboi Professional

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    On your short side you can actually do the 8 mains, then string the top cross and tie off. With your long side, you would instead start with the 2nd cross. That way you don't lose as much tension on the short side main
     
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  17. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    ...Which is often a sound strategy, but respectfully, I would be hesitant to do it with this frame - there appears to be very little frame material between the grommets for the 8th main and the 2nd cross.

    By the by, the safest way to string this frame (and many others) would be to string it 2pc. I also respectfully disagree that, in general, to employ a box or ATW pattern would be safer (or even logical) on a racquet where the mains end at the hoop.
     
    #17
  18. Wes

    Wes Rookie

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    Completely agree.
    I must be missing something... just what benefit would come from using an ATW on a frame with mains ALREADY ending at the head?
     
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  19. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    I don't understand why do you use plural for mains in conjunction with ATW. Only one main (6H) ties off at the hoop (in the 7H). The other end of the one piece goes two times ATW and ends as cross in 11T (TO in 6T).

    BTW, two years now, I string ONLY ATW - no matter the pattern and the number of pieces (for me only NG/Poly), even Pure Aero with its obligatory tracks. After the legendary thread of Irvin on proportional stringing, I use only a modified algorithm of PS with 1/3 differentiated RT for the longest and the shortest strings.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017 at 5:17 AM
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  20. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    I wasn't using plural in conjunction with ATW. I referred to a racquet whose 2 outside main strings (plural) are routed towards the hoop.

    Technically, what you're referring to is a box pattern (not ATW).

    There could be some advantages aesthetically, depending on the racquet. But beyond that...i can't see the benefit (matter of fact, to me it would be largely detrimental). But, to each their own, I guess.
     
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  21. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    I have to comment that Pros who get their string jobs at tournaments do not OFTEN care about how the frame is strung. They just specify the tension(s) the want. And the stringer? that person is not going to waste their time doing a box pattern or ATW if it is not needed. I would emulate that mindset. The KISS principle is something i thoroughly subscribe to for performance.
     
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  22. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    Technically, the box pattern is a double or triple ATW.

    Why talk standard stringing if the topic is ATW?!

    As for the principle of parsimony, jedem das Seine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017 at 9:48 PM
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  23. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    WUT? o_O

    Doesn't seem that OP realized he could string the racquet 1pc, crosses top down, without ATW. So, I pointed that out...probably bc I'm with @esgee48 - KISS.
     
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  24. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    You clamp the short end earlier - on the 5th or 6th hole and go with the long end two or three times around the world (ATW).
     
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  25. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    I understand the pattern.

    I don't understand why you insist on calling it ATW (especially with your own assertion that box patterns are "double or triple ATW"). How is a box pattern different than what you are describing? AFAIK, when you arrive at the top (or, say the second to top) cross with your long side...if you weave and tension it, and then go to the next cross, that's ATW. If however, when you arrive at the top of the racquet with the long side, you weave and tension one of the top crosses, and then you have to transition to another main string (followed by another cross, another main, etc.)...that's a box pattern.

    Anyway, I'm nitpicking, for which I apologize. These two terms are often used interchangeably. Personally, I take issue with that...as the procedures for the two are different in some ways, though their objectives, outcomes, etc. are often similar.

    Edit: I guess what you're saying is box patterns are essentially a form of atw, whereby you transition around the racquet a couple times before finishing the crosses. Guess it doesn't matter. Semantics.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017 at 11:39 AM
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  26. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    Wow, didn't mean to cause a ruckus.

    Chalk it up to me being new to stringing and not knowing what I don't know.

    I thought the only way to execute a 1 piece job was by using an ATW pattern. I thought they were 1 in the same. Or at least the preferred way to execute a 1 piece.

    Had no clue there was a factor to consider around where the mains ended and what that meant to which patterns to consider.

    My weekend got away from me (too much travel and hockey) so did not get around to re-stringing. But I should have time tomorrow night. My plan is to KISS and do a basic 1 piece pattern as I described earlier.


    I guess this brings up a good follow-up question... is there a good resource for better understanding typical patterns and the factors you'd consider in choosing 1 over another? I was thinking the USRSA manual was going to have some of that basic information, but it doesn't.
     
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  27. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    Except for hybrids, I do everything 1 piece. That means if the mains end at the throat, it will automatically be ATW or crosses bottom up if the manufacturer specifies it is OK. The only thing I consider when doing ATW is where are potential blocked holes, which are 2 strings over the hole. A single string over the hole is not blocked to me. If there is the possibility of a blocked hole, I will either put a piece of scrap string in that hole or put a piece of string outside the frame so I can pull the blocking strings out of the way. 3 cents.
     
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  28. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    Perfect. Was just thinking about that this morning, as I believe the bottom cross holes will be blocked or at least partially blocked.
     
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  29. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    Well, seems I don't go 3 times ATW, I box around 3 times. ;)
     
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