Austin, Texas Showdown

mightyrick

Legend
To celebrate @navigator coming in to my neck of the woods (Austin), there is going to be a couple of matches played over today and tomorrow. Today, me and @navigator and will be playing a singles match. Tomorrow will be a doubles match between (@navigator / @mightyrick / @atatu / one of atatu's friends).

I'll be recording both matches. I'm hoping to trim/edit the singles match and upload it tonight and I'll do the same for the doubles match tomorrow. Weather looks to be perfect for both.

(Nav, I'll have to return the favor and come down to your place in the summer...)
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
nice! looking forward to it. sorry that we never got to hit during one of my trips to Dallas :p
 

mightyrick

Legend
Just got done with the match against Nav. As expected -- a triple bagel. :) But was fun for me nonetheless. When I played him in San Diego... his slice was deadly. And today... it was just as deadly. Pinpoint accuracy, touch, and bite. I'm horrible at hitting the low slices over and over.

I'm processing a hitting video right now between us. The processing is taking forever. I'll post a few points too... which were pretty much indicative of the entire match. But I'll save everyone the pain of seeing an hour of destruction. :) More to come.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Just got done with the match against Nav. As expected -- a triple bagel. :) But was fun for me nonetheless. When I played him in San Diego... his slice was deadly. And today... it was just as deadly. Pinpoint accuracy, touch, and bite. I'm horrible at hitting the low slices over and over.

I'm processing a hitting video right now between us. The processing is taking forever. I'll post a few points too... which were pretty much indicative of the entire match. But I'll save everyone the pain of seeing an hour of destruction. :) More to come.
Wow a triple bagel? Is there such a huge quality difference? Were u completely steamrolled with no chance to get a game or did you have quite a few chances to do so but fell a bit short?
 

mightyrick

Legend
What is your entire match? Best of 3 or like most recreational matches it's one random set?
Best of 3. But he was kind enough to play a third set. I just don't get matches against players of his level and that style. It definitely makes me want to go get a ball machine and to 10,000 balls of low slices.

Trust me, whenever you can get a chance to play someone significantly better than you... take the opportunity. It really shows you where you need to work.
 

mightyrick

Legend
Wow a triple bagel? Is there such a huge quality difference? Were u completely steamrolled with no chance to get a game or did you have quite a few chances to do so but fell a bit short?
Huge difference in skill level. Part of it is match-up, too... which nullifies me probably down to a 3.5. I'm a low level 4.0 while Nav is at least a mid-level 4.5. So think of it like nearly a full NTRP point in difference. That expected outcome in that situation is bagels all the way.

That's why a lot of people here need to understand the difference between matchplay versus friendly hitting and friendly matches. In USTA, when you are playing competitively, a difference of .5 NTRP can easily result in bagels. If the difference is like .75 NTRP... then it is definitely bagels. Nav played USTA ladders. I also played USTA for awhile. When you play in that environment, you learn quickly that your friendly hitting, good-looking strokes don't mean much in a competitive match.

Honestly, I do a lot of eye-rolling on here when I see players posting a ball-machine video... or friendly hitting video... and asking for a NTRP rating. Until you play a seriously competitive match when you are spending upwards of $100 to enter... you can't be rated accurately.
 

mightyrick

Legend
Did he come to the net as usual?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Oh yeah. At least 15 or 20 times. But it was more the ankle-low, mid-court slices that killed me. I just don't play anybody with that shot... so I have no experience picking up balls while running sideways and forward.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Best of 3. But he was kind enough to play a third set. I just don't get matches against players of his level and that style. It definitely makes me want to go get a ball machine and to 10,000 balls of low slices.

Trust me, whenever you can get a chance to play someone significantly better than you... take the opportunity. It really shows you where you need to work.
Very nice.

You're preaching to a choir boy :)

Just yesterday I was answering and advocating to an old guy who asked me how to get better and it didn't seem like playing for 10 years was the answer for me. What he lacks is the right attitude and a open mind, in other words, a bit of coward to losing.

I would go as far as to invite any good players (with good sportsmanship of course) playing with me to lunch and drinks that I treat. And if he beats me routinely that's going to be his routine rewards. :)

Just about everyone I play with seems afraid of singles or get very flaky. They only want to play mediocre doubles and talk craps.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
To celebrate @navigator coming in to my neck of the woods (Austin), there is going to be a couple of matches played over today and tomorrow. Today, me and @navigator and will be playing a singles match. Tomorrow will be a doubles match between (@navigator / @mightyrick / @atatu / one of atatu's friends).

I'll be recording both matches. I'm hoping to trim/edit the singles match and upload it tonight and I'll do the same for the doubles match tomorrow. Weather looks to be perfect for both.

(Nav, I'll have to return the favor and come down to your place in the summer...)
Mad props for poasting any part of a triple bagel. Lol i know what that feels like. And how nice TT is in using that footage...

Navs game would probably make me take up golf. Though did you see the guy who played him tough by trying to “never hit a ground stroke”?
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Mad props for reporting back on the scores and (later) posting some video highlights. The best way to improve (other than getting a coach) truly is to get wrecked by someone better, and then go back to the drawing board.

But really, a coach is basically someone you pay to destroy you, and then give you advice on how to play better against him. If you can get it for 'free' why not go for it?

I'm kinda jealous tbh...I'm trying to find people to play with regularly that will beat me handily but there aren't that many high calibre players where I live. I'm at that 4.0 black hole where I'm not good enough to keep the good players interested, but too good myself to play against the frying pan players (unless it's doubles). Think the only way left for me is to join a league but their / my availability sucks so I am never free when the matches take place.

Still, I'll take anything as a learning experience. I joined a tennis Meetup a while ago with some 3.0-3.5 players and played some singles KOTC. It went as expected and I handed out breadsticks and bagels, but even then I looked at the games I did lose to figure out what went wrong. Turns out that it's mostly lazy footwork, overambitious second serves, and crappy volleys, so I'm constantly working on those since a player at a similar or higher level will destroy me by picking on those.
 

norcal

Hall of Fame
Sounds fun!

Navigator still ducking Over50'sChamp, huh?


You guys playing on clay or is Nav slumming on hardcourts?
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Mad props for reporting back on the scores and (later) posting some video highlights. The best way to improve (other than getting a coach) truly is to get wrecked by someone better, and then go back to the drawing board.

But really, a coach is basically someone you pay to destroy you, and then give you advice on how to play better against him. If you can get it for 'free' why not go for it?

I'm kinda jealous tbh...I'm trying to find people to play with regularly that will beat me handily but there aren't that many high calibre players where I live. I'm at that 4.0 black hole where I'm not good enough to keep the good players interested, but too good myself to play against the frying pan players (unless it's doubles). Think the only way left for me is to join a league but their / my availability sucks so I am never free when the matches take place.

Still, I'll take anything as a learning experience. I joined a tennis Meetup a while ago with some 3.0-3.5 players and played some singles KOTC. It went as expected and I handed out breadsticks and bagels, but even then I looked at the games I did lose to figure out what went wrong. Turns out that it's mostly lazy footwork, overambitious second serves, and crappy volleys, so I'm constantly working on those since a player at a similar or higher level will destroy me by picking on those.
Is there no one on the board close to you?
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Is there no one on the board close to you?
There is just one from these boards who is located very close by, so I play with him whenever I get the chance. Great player too.

But again, availability is an issue--either he's free but I'm not, or vice versa.
 

rrortiz5

Rookie
I’m a low level 4.0 living in Austin who would love to serve up some bagels and breadsticks to a fellow TT’er.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

mightyrick

Legend
Okay, editing is for the birds. Here is an edited down 7 minute video. The couple of games at the beginning are the last two games of the final 3rd (bagel) set. So just pretend that those last two games were representative of the entire match. After that, Nav and I just played points with me serving all the time. Nav was also kind enough to let me rally a little bit during these points.

Looking forward to doubles tomorrow!

 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
Good playing boys ... a few of those serves were awfully pretty, and can see what you mean about that devastating low slice.

@navigator I appreciate very much the art in your game

@mightyrick I can see why Nav was hitting as much as possible to your bh ... your FH had nice depth on most shots ... except when he sliced you.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
Okay, editing is for the birds. Here is an edited down 7 minute video. The couple of games at the beginning are the last two games of the final 3rd (bagel) set. So just pretend that those last two games were representative of the entire match. After that, Nav and I just played points with me serving all the time. Nav was also kind enough to let me rally a little bit during these points.

Looking forward to doubles tomorrow!

No way thats nav. He looks like him plays like him and moves like him but navigator ALWAYS wears blue. I think this is fake.

Though i like the approach winner he hit.

You played well considering the level difference. I think i am going to hit nothing but slice for a week
 

Hmgraphite1

Hall of Fame
You got a good game, the only things I'd suggest is keeping your left hand up more on fh. Seems to be dropping and flopping around, maybe opening up to soon.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Okay, editing is for the birds. Here is an edited down 7 minute video. The couple of games at the beginning are the last two games of the final 3rd (bagel) set. So just pretend that those last two games were representative of the entire match. After that, Nav and I just played points with me serving all the time. Nav was also kind enough to let me rally a little bit during these points.

Looking forward to doubles tomorrow!

Man, that slice is a thing of beauty. The way he held it and went CC on that pass was just brilliant. Nice volleys too. Bends back nicely on serve. In short, a very tough opponent and I applaud you for fighting and also uploading video of it.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
Here is an edited down 7 minute video.
Navigator looks tough and well-rounded! Nice volleys, slice, returns, approach shots, etc.

One strategy that I use against someone with a nice slice and/or flattish-shots is to pressure them by approaching the net. His strokes aren't real loopy, so you might get some good looks at volleys, coming in on a deep approach shot. Better than digging out ankle-high slices from the baseline all match long :)
 

mightyrick

Legend
@mightyrick Do you honestly think you would destroy @tlm in singles as you repeatedly claimed?
Yes, I do. Just being honest. Very loopy topspin hitters generally don't bother me because I play against them all the time. You could say I "grew up" on TLM-style players. A lot of it is a matchup. I literally played someone that style a week ago in a competitive match and beat them 1 and 1. And that guy is a low 4.0. Guys who give me rhythm, time, and topspin with no weapons... generally don't do well against me.
 

mightyrick

Legend
@mightyrick Out of curiosity, what's your USTA rating?
I haven't played USTA in quite a long time now. I was a 3.5 when I stopped playing USTA. However, I continue to play in competitive ladders against rated current USTA players. So while I say I am a "low 4.0" it is because I am competitive (win and lose) against current NTRP-rated players at that level.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
@mightyrick Do you honestly think you would destroy @tlm in singles as you repeatedly claimed?
Yes, I do. Just being honest. Very loopy topspin hitters generally don't bother me because I play against them all the time. You could say I "grew up" on TLM-style players. A lot of it is a matchup. I literally played someone that style a week ago in a competitive match and beat them 1 and 1. And that guy is a low 4.0. Guys who give me rhythm, time, and topspin with no weapons... generally don't do well against me.
No way. Talk tennis tennis inflation. Rick you miss tons of shots. Unforced errors all over the place. Tlm would beat you. Tlm does not make nearly as many errors as you do. You just do it every other shot.
 

Doc Hollidae

Hall of Fame
I haven't played USTA in quite a long time now. I was a 3.5 when I stopped playing USTA. However, I continue to play in competitive ladders against rated current USTA players. So while I say I am a "low 4.0" it is because I am competitive (win and lose) against current NTRP-rated players at that level.
Thanks.
 

mightyrick

Legend
No way. Talk tennis tennis inflation. Rick you miss tons of shots. Unforced errors all over the place. Tlm would beat you. Tlm does not make nearly as many errors as you do. You just do it every other shot.
All I can say is the proof is on the court. All else is just talk. I am more than willing to play him or anyone else. I have no illusions of who I would beat, not beat, or my own skill level.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
All I can say is the proof is on the court. All else is just talk. I am more than willing to play him or anyone else. I have no illusions of who I would beat, not beat, or my own skill level.
Well you can simply count the errors per game. Via video. And you make so many while tlm doesn't make many at all. I would bet money on this. And if you do play him I will bet money. While Navigator is a good player his shots were hardly overwhelming. He exposed your movement issues as well as technical issues. Which are plentiful. You can't move and hit a ball properly. Tlm scoots all over the place and doesn't miss.

We should have a poll.
 

mightyrick

Legend
Just to illustrate matchup. Here is a video of me playing a rally game with Cheetah. This was two-and-a-half years ago in the San Diego meetup. I was 40 pounds heavier and was in the middle of a transition from a 1HBH to a 2HBH.


Again, different outcome and look because I am far more accustomed to playing against players like Cheetah.

I am a better player now. 40 pounds lighter and have a better backhand than I did then.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
Tlm has a video of him playing a 4.5 player over 50 as well. Look at both and compare videos. Tlm beats Rick just by virtue of unforced errors.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
Just to illustrate matchup. Here is a video of me playing a rally game with Cheetah. This was two-and-a-half years ago in the San Diego meetup. I was 40 pounds heavier and was in the middle of a transition from a 1HBH to a 2HBH.


Again, different outcome and look because I am far more accustomed to playing against players like Cheetah.

I am a better player now. 40 pounds lighter and have a better backhand than I did then.
Rally game has no serve. Which sets up the point. Not even close. I can hang with blue chip 16 year olds in rally games but in a real match I can't even win a few points per game.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
I can easily receive double bagels against a 16 year old 3, 4, 5 star blue chip junior in under 30 min. But in a rally game I can win many many points.
 

norcal

Hall of Fame
Love watching Nav's oldschool style, nice vid.

@mightyrick - one thing that had me puzzled: why didn't you stand further back on his 1st serve? From what I saw you had almost zero chance if his first serve went in yet you were hugging the baseline. I understand you don't want to give a s&v'r time to get to net but the first goal should be to get a decent hit on the return.

Was there a specific reason for standing so close in?
 
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Deleted member 120290

Guest
My prediction from having watched many, many matches over different levels is that @tlm would easily straight set @mightyrick.
Mighty's shot tolerance is low, and his defense and movement are not good. I don't see any weapons that would hurt Tlm.
Tlm has a much better defense and movement.
In rec singles defense and movement are keys to victory.
In doubles it is a little different.
 

mightyrick

Legend
Love watching Nav's oldschool style, nice vid.

@mightyrick - one thing that had me puzzled: why didn't you stand further back on his 1st serve? From what I saw you had almost zero chance if his first serve went in yet you were hugging the baseline. I understand you don't want to give a s&v'r time to get to net but the first goal should be to get a decent hit on the return.

Was there a specific reason for standing so close in?
No specific reason. On the first serve, that is generally where I stand. I grant you that standing back probably would have helped. Although the big issue I had with Nav's first serve is that it is also very "slicey" and low -- not really a serve type that I am accustomed to seeing. Comes into the body fast with lateral movement. But I definitely grant you that standing back would probably have given me a better look at it. I'll definitely do that next time I play him.
 

mightyrick

Legend
My prediction from having watched many, many matches over different levels is that @tlm would easily straight set @mightyrick.
Mighty's shot tolerance is low, and his defense and movement are not good. I don't see any weapons that would hurt Tlm.
Tlm has a much better defense and movement.
In rec singles defense and movement are keys to victory.
In doubles it is a little different.
Totally get it. When I get to Chicago, if TLM is available, I'll happily play him and video it. I know he said he has relatives down here in Austin I think... if he gets down here... I'll play him for sure. Either way.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
My prediction from having watched many, many matches over different levels is that @tlm would easily straight set @mightyrick.
Mighty's shot tolerance is low, and his defense and movement are not good. I don't see any weapons that would hurt Tlm.
Tlm has a much better defense and movement.
In rec singles defense and movement are keys to victory.
In doubles it is a little different.
I agree. You study enough competitive matches and you see the tell tell signs of where a game breaks down.

Tlm easily beats Rick
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
For example. I know exactly where my biggest weakness is. I have a permanent shoulder injury. My serve has never been the same. Can't hang with better players because my serve is not good enough.
 
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Deleted member 120290

Guest
Totally get it. When I get to Chicago, if TLM is available, I'll happily play him and video it. I know he said he has relatives down here in Austin I think... if he gets down here... I'll play him for sure. Either way.
Fair enough. One can make an educated guess based on experience, but nothing is for certain until the match is actually played.
There are some matchup issues that make even the experts scratch their heads.
Also Tlm may choke under the pressure of TT glory.
 
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heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
You moved a lot faster when you were fatter. Do you agree?
Just to illustrate matchup. Here is a video of me playing a rally game with Cheetah. This was two-and-a-half years ago in the San Diego meetup. I was 40 pounds heavier and was in the middle of a transition from a 1HBH to a 2HBH.


Again, different outcome and look because I am far more accustomed to playing against players like Cheetah.

I am a better player now. 40 pounds lighter and have a better backhand than I did then.
 

mightyrick

Legend
You moved a lot faster when you were fatter. Do you agree?
Absolutely not. The difference between the videos is the opponent and their styles. I'm not asking anyone for belief. If you think I'm slower now than back then based on these videos... that's fine. I'm not going to convince you otherwise and since it's my body and I live in it every day... you're not going to convince me otherwise.

I know that people these days generally form opinions based on a very limited sample as opposed to what they are told. Totally fine with that. You have no reason to trust me and you don't need to.
 
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