Australian Open 2017 final vs Australian Open 2012 final (which final match was better)?

Australian Open 2017 final vs Australian Open 2012 final (which final match was better)?

  • Australian Open 2017 final

    Votes: 47 54.0%
  • Australian Open 2012 final

    Votes: 40 46.0%

  • Total voters
    87
The epic 5 setter between Roger and Nadal in 2017 vs the longest grand slam final ever between Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic in Melbourne Australian Open. Which final and match in general was better in terms of entertainment and quality?
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
For me, it's 2017. Watching 2 players ping a ball back on forth endlessly and aimlessly to win a single point isn't my cup of tea, but it's a matter for taste.

The surfaces were sped up a bit for the 2017 Aussie, and watching Federer and Nadal hit backhand winners that would skid through the court rather than sit up and slow down as if they had hit mud, was more exciting for me.

The fact that it was between the 2 GOATs in the most monumental and significant match perhaps ever just added to the drama. I've never seen a crowd like the AO crowd in that 5th set. The stadium was almost literally shaking. History on the line. Legacies on the line. GOAThood on the line. The stakes couldn't be any higher, and both players left absolutely everything out there.

Its a match I'll never forget and I suspect that most people who watched it will never see anything like it. It's 2017 for me.
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
2012 AO final obviously. Novak should have given up 20 times already.

Tbf Novak should have won the 4th set tie break but froze and choked on that easy forehand at the net. He should have had triple championship point and it would have been forgettable. What made the match special was Rafa clawing his way back when he looked dead and buried. He was just standing there letting balls pass him by in the 3rd set.
Fred stolle on commentary was dumbfounded and I had never seen that from Nadal before. He turned it on in the tie break to force the 5th and led by a break before missing the easy backhand that would have almost certainly meant that he would have gone on to win the championship.
A lot of errors. Tons, by each. The point that gave Novak championship point was another error.

Nadal was a fighter that day, like he always is. I'm not sure it makes it one of the best matches ever. Nadal wasn't at his best and imo it was only his resolve which forced the match to go on as long as he did. In terms of quality, Nadal has played about 10 better matches. Novak has played better matches. Wouldn't you agree?
 

Newcomer

Hall of Fame
Both were good overall, but for me as a Nadal fan both were terrible. Federer and Djokovic fans have no idea how it feels to lose a slam final after being a break up in the fifth set. Nadal fans had to experience it twice.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
Both were good overall, but for me as a Nadal fan both were terrible. Federer and Djokovic fans have no idea how it feels to lose a slam final after being a break up in the fifth set. Nadal fans had to experience it twice.

Nadal fans have no idea what it feels like to lose a RG final. Federer and Djokovic fans have felt it at least three times each. Happens.
 

Newcomer

Hall of Fame
Nadal fans have no idea what it feels like to lose a RG final. Federer and Djokovic fans have felt it at least three times each. Happens.
Federer and Djokovic had no chances in ANY of these RG finals. So I don't really get your point. It's harder to lose when you actually have chances and just miss them.
 

Mazz Retic

Hall of Fame
Both were good overall, but for me as a Nadal fan both were terrible. Federer and Djokovic fans have no idea how it feels to lose a slam final after being a break up in the fifth set. Nadal fans had to experience it twice.
Although nadal should have won probably in 4 the wimbledon 2008 hurt. The AO 09 hurt too.
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
2017 wasn't that great of a match and even though it went 5 sets, the sets weren't that close. I hate to be that guy but the match is overrated and pales in comparison to their 2009 final. 2012 easily.

I thought it was much higher quality than the 2012 final which was a snoozefest. But I'm a Federer fan and you're a Novak fan, so we're going to have different opinions.

The drama of this year's finals exceeded the 2012 one by a country mile. The actual play was better and the stakes were much higher.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
I thought it was much higher quality than the 2012 final which was a snoozefest. But I'm a Federer fan and you're a Novak fan, so we're going to have different opinions.

The drama of this year's finals exceeded the 2012 one by a country mile. The actual play was better and the stakes were much higher.

Well if you thought the 2012 final was a snoozefest then your taste in quality may be questionable. It's not about me being a Novak fan, the match isn't all that great in quality. You could say it had great drama and that's what you enjoyed more but in no way was it a better match.
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
Well if you thought the 2012 final was a snoozefest then your taste in quality may be questionable. It's not about me being a Novak fan, the match isn't all that great in quality. You could say it had great drama and that's what you enjoyed more but in no way was it a better match.
I don't think the fact that I don't share your oppinion makes my taste questionable. I could just as easily say something just as daft and suggest that you thinking that the 2012 constitutes great and entertaining tennis means you have low standards and that you have questionable taste.
It doesnt work that way. People are into different things and have different tastes.

"There's no way it was a better match".
That's where your opinion and mine differ. Not only was it a better match, it was a MUCH better match. The quality of play was much higher than in the 2012 final. The drama and stakes being that much higher only added to the epicness of the match.

You're allowed your opinion ofcourse. As a Djokovic fan, I'm not surprised you're going for the match Djokovic won.
 

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
Yes, but Federer didn't do anything wrong in the 2009 final. The final set was 6-2. It's not like Federer was close and choked.

Fed was amazing in the first 4 sets, a high enough level to win most slam finals in straights. He didn't serve that well but rarely has he played a better match from the baseline against Rafa if ever. The most painful loss I experienced was the AO 2014 final. The others would be Rog 07, Soderling 09, Nole 12 and Rog 17.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
I don't think the fact that I don't share your oppinion makes my taste questionable. I could just as easily say something just as daft and suggest that you thinking that the 2012 constitutes great and entertaining tennis means you have low standards and that you have questionable taste.
It doesnt work that way. People are into different things and have different tastes.

"There's no way it was a better match".
That's where your opinion and mine differ. Not only was it a better match, it was a MUCH better match. The quality of play was much higher than in the 2012 final. The drama and stakes being that much higher only added to the epicness of the match.

You're allowed your opinion ofcourse. As a Djokovic fan, I'm not surprised you're going for the match Djokovic won.

No the fact that you thought the 2012 final was a snoozefest is why I said your taste may be questionable, but we all have our opinions. I didn't say the 2017 final was a snoozefest but it wasn't even close to being one of their better matches or no way on the level of their 2009 match. In 2012, Djokovic and Nadal were at the peak of their athletic powers who pushed each other to every absolute limit for close to 6 hours. They couldn't even stand up after the match. Sorry if the 2017 final with a Federer and Nadal who were 35 and 30 and not as athletically strong as they were 8 years earlier didn't impress me as much. We disagree and I'll leave it at that.
 

Newcomer

Hall of Fame
Fed was amazing in the first 4 sets, a high enough level to win most slam finals in straights. He didn't serve that well but rarely has he played a better match from the baseline against Rafa if ever. The most painful loss I experienced was the AO 2014 final. The others would be Rog 07, Soderling 09, Nole 12 and Rog 17.
That one actually wasn't tough for me. Of course I never expected him to lose this match. But he had to lose in RG at least once, right? And it's good it happened in the fourth round of RG 2009 against a player like Soderling. Much better than to lose in semifinal or final to one of his rivals in a close match. There would never be anything tougher than losing this RG 2013 semifinal to Djokovic after leading with a break in the second set and leading twice with a break in the fourth. I still don't know how Nadal won this match after choking so hard but thanks god he did.
The 4 toughest losses in my opinion are AO 2012, AO 2014, AO 2017 and Wimbledon 2017. (yes, people do not realize what CHANCE he missed in this tournament. Had he won that fourth round he would at least reach the final)
 
C

Charlie

Guest
I don't like people automatically calling every match between Djokovic and Nadal/Murray a snoozefest, because that's not the case. The annoying thing about the 2012 AO final was Novak's and Rafa's serving rituals that stretched the match time to an extraordinary level but the match itself was great IMO. Considering it was played on one of the slowest courts ever and featured two guys that possess absolutely insane defense, I think we got a very nice collection of great points. The 5th set had the drama and twists just like the one in 2017 so I can't give this year's final the edge because of that. The stakes were higher though.
 

kOaMaster

Hall of Fame
I'd even argue that 2009 was better than any of those - quality. but 2017 had more drama.
I don't reckon 2017 being that great except being long and nadal losing despite being a break up.
 
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Deleted member 716271

Guest
No the fact that you thought the 2012 final was a snoozefest is why I said your taste may be questionable, but we all have our opinions. I didn't say the 2017 final was a snoozefest but it wasn't even close to being one of their better matches or no way on the level of their 2009 match. In 2012, Djokovic and Nadal were at the peak of their athletic powers who pushed each other to every absolute limit for close to 6 hours. They couldn't even stand up after the match. Sorry if the 2017 final with a Federer and Nadal who were 35 and 30 and not as athletically strong as they were 8 years earlier didn't impress me as much. We disagree and I'll leave it at that.

The difference is that guy would never ever say a match that wasnt the style he likes was a better match even if it clearly was. Whereas you and I might prefer a certain kind of match , but would be fair and often give credit to other players or matches played in a different style than Djokodal matches. Whereas that guy never would. It is ironic that he said you picked the match Djokovic won just because of that, when clearly it is the opposite. He's the one who's doing that so he assumes everyone else does too. It's projection at its finest.. :mad:

Unbelievable . :D
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
The difference is that guy would never ever say a match that wasnt the style he likes was a better match even if it clearly was. Whereas you and I might prefer a certain kind of match , but would be fair and often give credit to other players or matches played in a different style than Djokodal matches. Whereas that guy never would. It is ironic that he said you picked the match Djokovic won just because of that, when clearly it is the opposite. He's the one who's doing that so he assumes everyone else does too. It's projection at its finest.. :mad:

Unbelievable . :D
You just reminded me of our boy Chico, wonder what that fella is doing now haha
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
Yes, but Federer didn't do anything wrong in the 2009 final. The final set was 6-2. It's not like Federer was close and choked.

To be honest, he should have won in straights with the right focus (and would maybe/probably have done so if Del Potro hadn't been allowed to challenge a call like an hour after the point was played). In the fifth, he was clearly outplayed, yes. But his daughters had just been born and he clearly had other priorities at this time. He didn't even feel affected one little bit during the trophy ceremony.
 

xFullCourtTenniSx

Hall of Fame
Higher quality 2012 but for drama, nostalgia, and epicness from both players 2017 takes the cake.

Okay, this I can agree with. Anyone who just blindly says 2017 either has massive nostalgia bias or didn't watch the match. The only problem I had was with the ending of the 2012 final. Djokovic's body language screamed down and out. Nadal was fighting and putting out 120%. Djokovic looked like all he had left was the energy to stand, and he still hit winners, consistently. To me, that final will always be next level bullsh*t. But to say it was of poor quality or wasn't epic would be a lie.

The 2017 final was a significant better story though. Federer and Nadal reunited at a major final. A full 5 sets. Federer showing off his new backhand. And Federer coming back from behind in the 5th. The only thing that could've been better was the quality of tennis, but even there you can't really complain. It's 10x better than any pair from any "nextgen" or "lostgen" or whatever could've given us. #remember2014USO
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Different kind of interesting. I loved both (although I wouldn't want to see a similar final to 2012 especially if it's between some mugs)
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
And it's good it happened in the fourth round of RG 2009 against a player like Soderling. Much better than to lose in semifinal or final to one of his rivals in a close match.

This I just can't wrap my head around. "Thank god our Rafa lost to all these nobodies during the first week of Wimbledon since 2012, it would have been so tough to swallow if he'd lost three or four additional finals to Federer or Djokovic. The hallowed h2h might be in danger, etc."

I feel it's much better for Federer that he lost in close matches in the Wimby final to Nadal and to Djokovic (twice) than had he lost like a wimp to guys like Bastl or Darcis. Seriously... :eek:

There would never be anything tougher than losing this RG 2013 semifinal to Djokovic after leading with a break in the second set and leading twice with a break in the fourth. I still don't know how Nadal won this match after choking so hard but thanks god he did.

You can thank the net--or maybe the fact that Djokovic didn't know he wasn't supposed to nosedive into it. :D

As to the OP, AO 2017 by a country mile. Couldn't stand the other one (too much time-wasting, it detracted from the *real* tennis, imho).
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
The narrative of the 2012 match is being underrated albeit the 2017 match has an even more epic narrative.

If you're talking quality than the 2012 AO final takes it, though I'm not complaining too hard about the tennis Fedal put forward.

There is plenty of mystique which surrounds the 2012 AO final, such as Nadal's quest to find solutions for Djokovic, the swings and roundabouts of the match, that missed backhand that likely hands Nadal the victory, the duration of the match itself, the gruelling rallies and gladiatorial play, and both players looking absolutely REKT during the aftermath and trophy presentation.
 

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
To be honest, he should have won in straights with the right focus (and would maybe/probably have done so if Del Potro hadn't been allowed to challenge a call like an hour after the point was played). In the fifth, he was clearly outplayed, yes. But his daughters had just been born and he clearly had other priorities at this time. He didn't even feel affected one little bit during the trophy ceremony.

How would that challenge have changed anything? It was on 5-4 in the third, Fed won the point and Juan took like 10 secs because he was talking with the upmire. Clueless...
 
D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
You just reminded me of our boy Chico, wonder what that fella is doing now haha

posting here still Im quite sure :D not sure someone like that can just go inactive. It's like a serial killer. He's either still active or dead (or in jail).
 

Newcomer

Hall of Fame
This I just can't wrap my head around. "Thank god our Rafa lost to all these nobodies during the first week of Wimbledon since 2012, it would have been so tough to swallow if he'd lost three or four additional finals to Federer or Djokovic. The hallowed h2h might be in danger, etc."

I feel it's much better for Federer that he lost in close matches in the Wimby final to Nadal and to Djokovic (twice) than had he lost like a wimp to guys like Bastl or Darcis. Seriously... :eek:



You can thank the net--or maybe the fact that Djokovic didn't know he wasn't supposed to nosedive into it. :D

As to the OP, AO 2017 by a country mile. Couldn't stand the other one (too much time-wasting, it detracted from the *real* tennis, imho).
Nothing to do with the net. Nadal outplayed Djokovic in all 5 sets of the match-but yet lost 2 of them, and almost the third one. Nadal choked a lot of matches in his career, but choking this one would be the worst. I'm sure he would have never won another slam had he lost that semifinal.
About Federer it's maybe your own opinion. But as I see not many Federer fans agree with you.
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
How would that challenge have changed anything? It was on 5-4 in the third, Fed won the point and Juan took like 10 secs because he was talking with the upmire.

Actually, he hesitated, talked to his box, asked their opinion, hesitated some more, and after that, he challenged, which allowed him to break. Of course, you're a Nadal fan, so it must have looked like all of 10 seconds to you if you think our Rafa plays within the time limits. ;)

Edit: aaaaand... I just realized you're talking about the challenge in the third set (which was perfectly legit and that I had totally forgotten), I'm talking about the one in the second, for which he took much, much longer (turned out he was right, too, but as I said, Federer wasn't totally focused, and this "working around the rules" got Del Potro back into the match or he would have been 0-2 down... not that I mind one little bit, though, I was pretty happy for the guy at the time and he sure deserved at least a slam). :)

Clueless...

Thank you. :)
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
The narrative of the 2017 final was more historic, but was it really the more dramatic match???
 

DerekNoleFam1

Hall of Fame
2012 even allowing for obvious fan bias, due to the brutal nature of the battle.
2017 was good, and could have gone either way as well.
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
Nothing to do with the net. Nadal outplayed Djokovic in all 5 sets of the match-but yet lost 2 of them, and almost the third one. Nadal choked a lot of matches in his career, but choking this one would be the worst. I'm sure he would have never won another slam had he lost that semifinal.

Djokovic up a break in the fifth, 40-all on his serve, scores a winner but loses the point by touching the net... then goes on to lose his serve and the match. Nothing to do with the net, really?

About Federer it's maybe your own opinion. But as I see not many Federer fans agree with you.

That's probably because you're not looking, imho. The VB are the only ones touting that nothing trumps the h2h and that it must be preserved at all cost. Most Federer fans I see here are focused on the actual results (see for example the thread about the best Wimbledon player--not that many Fed fans argue that it's better to be dismantled in the QF by a one-slam wonder than to lose an epic final vs an ATG).
 
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Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
2012, suppose slightly better quality but the match went 75 minutes "over time", because both players repeatedly took 30-40 seconds to serve. I really don't like that, but it had an epic narrative and Rafa's quest for solving Novak and the two best defenders since Borg battling it out on slow HC till they could hardly stand.

2017, as a Fed fan, it couldn't get more epic and dramatic than that and the stakes were as high as they could get. Also, the quality and the drama in the 5th was out of this world and safe for set 2, I think the overall quality was pretty high.
 
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