Babolat POP tennis sensor

[skydog]

Me too. Played a match with a lot of chip n charge, volleys and serve n volley and got a piq score of 3100. Normally I get somewhere around 4500. Was kind of a double disappointment since I lost the match (to a guy I shouldn't loose to).

I do a lot of chip and charge in doubles drills as well as volleys, best PIQ I have is in the 3700+ range. I am guessing you need to be a baseliner with a Western grip to get really high PIQ's. I am not changing my game to get a better PIQ score, though, I like my attacking style better than laying back at the baseline.

 

[Robert F]

So as a group I think we feel the PIQ score might correlate with improved performance on the baseline. If in a few months your baseline PIQ score goes up 500 points, your baseline game has probably improved. Or could you just swing really fast and hit every ball in the net, but because it is fast your PIQ score will elevate?

Would there be any correlation to net play?

 

[West Coast Ace]

So as a group I think we feel the PIQ score might correlate with improved performance on the baseline. If in a few months your baseline PIQ score goes up 500 points, your baseline game has probably improved. Or could you just swing really fast and hit every ball in the net, but because it is fast your PIQ score will elevate?

Would there be any correlation to net play?

Good post. Of course only the individual knows how many of his shots are going in and whether they're getting close to the baseline or not.

And it appears that, other than counting how many volleys one hits, the Pop really doesn't add anything - and maybe we should break up our practices and not even have it on for volleying since it appears some volleys are counted as bad groundstrokes.

Funny you mention that 500 pt bump: I can attest that my PIQ went up about 500 - and it was when I put more emphasis into getting more wrist snap on my FH. As (I think you) and others mentioned - Babolat really should offer a separate PIQ for BH, FH, serve to allow the player to measure improvement in each.

 

[skydog]

So as a group I think we feel the PIQ score might correlate with improved performance on the baseline. If in a few months your baseline PIQ score goes up 500 points, your baseline game has probably improved. Or could you just swing really fast and hit every ball in the net, but because it is fast your PIQ score will elevate?

Would there be any correlation to net play?

I wear mine during the drills I attend 3 nights a week. On two of those night I hit a lot more ground strokes and about 100 shots more than my drill night with a different instructor. The two nights I hit more ground strokes, my PIQ is about 700 points higher (Max between two nights and the third night was around 1000 points) vs the the third night which has a lot more net play and doubles drills.

I just think the Pop has a tough time differentiating a volley from weak ground stroke as your wrist movement is limited on both shots. If you are punching your volleys with any kind of back stroke, I am thinking the Pop is thinking it's more of a weak ground stroke vs a volley. Not sure if it will ever be fixed as it is probably almost impossible for the sensor to differentiate between the strokes with the sensor located on your wrist.

 

[Robert F]

Good post. Of course only the individual knows how many of his shots are going in and whether they're getting close to the baseline or not.

And it appears that, other than counting how many volleys one hits, the Pop really doesn't add anything - and maybe we should break up our practices and not even have it on for volleying since it appears some volleys are counted as bad groundstrokes.

Funny you mention that 500 pt bump: I can attest that my PIQ went up about 500 - and it was when I put more emphasis into getting more wrist snap on my FH. As (I think you) and others mentioned - Babolat really should offer a separate PIQ for BH, FH, serve to allow the player to measure improvement in each.

Ideally there could be a total PIQ Breakdown

Total PIQ
Ground Stroke PIQ--BH PIQ--Topsin BH PIQ/Slice BH PIQ/Flat BH PIQ and then same for Forehand

I don't think that would be much asking of the technology.
It would be great if it could break serve down to flat/kick/slice, but maybe the tech ain't there yet.
Similar to its difficulty understanding volleys.

Even today, me and my buddy spent more time than usual on volleys and my PIQ dropped by 400. But I felt my groundies were pretty decent today.

 

[West Coast Ace]

Ideally there could be a total PIQ Breakdown

Total PIQ
Ground Stroke PIQ--BH PIQ--Topsin BH PIQ/Slice BH PIQ/Flat BH PIQ and then same for Forehand

That would be very good.

And it has to be doable. It keeps the PIQ score for each stroke (knows your best for the entire session); know what each stroke is (as well as it can - strange how it still gets confused - I haven't had the volley issues - but it thinks my first warmup serves are overheads - oh, well - not a big deal), then it's just a math exercise.

 

[Babolat Official]

So does this mean it might register some in between strokes as weak groundstrokes and hence giving a weak PIQ score?

I don't take a big swing, but there are often pick up volleys, so it is certainly possible.

My experience is my PIQ score dips whenever volleys become a bigger component of my game.
If I do an hour of hitting PIQ score between 4200-4500.
If I 30 minutes of hitting and 30 minutes of volleys PIQ score often drops into the 2500-3000 range.
If I play doubles, usually my piq score will be around 3800.

So I wonder if miscounted volleys as groundstrokes bring the score down?

Yes, what I meant is that the volley could be miscounted as a weak ground stroke.

I appreciate all of the feedback in this thread. I'll share with our product team.

 

[Osteo UK]

I tried and then returned the Qlipp last week and am now using the Pop. The Qlipp altered the racquet balance and feel more than I expected, but its app and data content is FAR superior to the Pop.

Many of my thoughts have been echoed elsewhere throughout this thread and I am a little surprised that many of them have not been actioned already. They do not appear to be that difficult or unreasonable on first glance.

1. Shot recognition accuracy: difficult to assess, but I am happy to take it at face value. This I am sure will become more accurate with algorithm developments anyway.
2. Connection: tried to connect last night, no joy after having a seemless set up earlier in the day. An hour or so later it did connect and upload the data (4 sets as 4 distinct sessions) although I do not understand why it didn't work initially.
3. Wristband: I use an extended length sweatband and it would be helpful if I could place the Pop in something similar. (other brands offer something which I might try) Having half a dozen of them at an affordable price would be helpful. The wristband itself gets drenched and I find that more fluid will drop to my hand. This is even with my original sweatband up my forearm next to the Pop. Again when wet, it does slip further to my wrist crease than I would prefer.
4. The data shows your AVERAGE results. The problem with AVERAGE data and results is that you will only ever achieve AVERAGE improvements. I would like to see the individual shots listed as per the Qlipp device. The Qlipp will show me which shots, speed, sweetspot etc and I cannot see why the Pop cannot do the same and simply swap out sweetspot for PIQ score. It's great having a one off PIQ of 9000, but what did I do and when? And how can I learn to repeat it? With the Qlipp you can see how often you hit good/bad shots and learn accordingly. The Qlipp breaks down your FH, BH, serve (top, flat, slice) so you can learn far more with regards to your strengths and weakness. As I said earlier, AVERAGE data will only give AVERAGE results.
5. Data separation: I have learned that I can switch on/off the Pop to record separate sets in a match, but I would like to see a way to combine this data to see how a match progresses.
6: Speed recognition: I know it relates to wrist speed and not racket or ball speed. On Pop I have hit a 68mph serve, on Qlipp 100mph and I will find my Speedtrac Radar and retest with the Pop. My suspicion is that my serve on the Speedtrac will not break 85mph, although being placed at the net deceleration needs to be taken in to account.
7. Some form of text edit facility to the data so that I can add more useful information to look back upon. I would also like this to be retrospective as it is just text.

Overall: the Pop is a nice device that (unfathomably by Babolat/PIQ) seems to be being held back from its true potential by its basic app data. The app feels more like a "social" tool and is a bit 'wishy-washy' compared to the slick and infinitely more detailed Qlipp app. Improving the metrics available on the Pop app should be a necessity, rather than a luxury by including a "basic" and "advanced" user interface option. If in doubt, just plagiarise the Qlipp.

Again, I'm not writing anything that is new to this thread - Babolat/PIQ please help and take notice, we just want the best from you!

 

[Robert F]

Addressing the sweat band issue, I have been using it just under a sweat band instead of using the POP Sensor Band. Stays in place better. So far it has not hurt the sensor.

 

[Osteo UK]

Addressing the sweat band issue, I have been using it just under a sweat band instead of using the POP Sensor Band. Stays in place better. So far it has not hurt the sensor.

Tried this yesterday and all seems fine. Be interesting to learn whether any long term use in this way (contained within a damp sweatband as opposed to in the breathable Pop wrist band) has any cumulative effect or not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[KluddKalle]

Addressing the sweat band issue, I have been using it just under a sweat band instead of using the POP Sensor Band. Stays in place better. So far it has not hurt the sensor.

Tried this yesterday and all seems fine. Be interesting to learn whether any long term use in this way (contained within a damp sweatband as opposed to in the breathable Pop wrist band) has any cumulative effect or not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I tried this yesterday aswell. Worked out great! Thanks!

 

[Osteo UK]

Perhaps a silly question, but is there anyone out there with the skills to create a better app than the basic Pop one? Having used this for two weeks now, I'm not really learning anything specific that I can focus on on - as I said previously, being given average stats and nothing else doesn't really help.

 

[Robert F]

I hope I didn't speak too soon regarding using a sweat band. I've probably used a sweat band instead of for about 15-20 hours of play. Last 2 sessions it has been having a harder time fully downloading saying there was an error. After about 3 attempts it does finally download.

Tonight, something really odd happened. Usually when I play with this one buddy my PIQ score will usually wind up between 4200 and 4400 with racket head speeds of AVG of 48-51 on my forehand, 45-48 on my backhand and 68 on my serve.

Tonight the PIQ score was 4379 but my racket head speeds were really up 61 on the forehand and 63 on my bh. Serve was up to 74. I'd love to say I was blasting the ball but it didn't seem 10 mph higher. Seemed liked the sensor was in the same place the whole time similar to where the POP band would hold it. Maybe as it got a little sweaty, it was riding farther down my wrist towards my hand and finger but it didn't seem to rotate laterally as much as the POP band would.

I'll probably try the POP wrist band next time out then go sweat band again to see if it was just an anomaly.

So using a sweatband might have 2 issues:

1.) Did the sweat band provide less protection than the POP band from sweat and now it is having transmission problems via blue tooth?
Although the POP band sure got wet with sweat too.

2.) Would the POP sensor sliding forward (1" at most) give data that makes it believe I'm swinging almost 10MPH faster or has the sweat from the sweat band corrupted its ability to work properly?

At this time I don't think I can put any blame on Babolat since I'm not using it as directed.

 

[Babolat Official]

I hope I didn't speak too soon regarding using a sweat band. I've probably used a sweat band instead of for about 15-20 hours of play. Last 2 sessions it has been having a harder time fully downloading saying there was an error. After about 3 attempts it does finally download.

Tonight, something really odd happened. Usually when I play with this one buddy my PIQ score will usually wind up between 4200 and 4400 with racket head speeds of AVG of 48-51 on my forehand, 45-48 on my backhand and 68 on my serve.

Tonight the PIQ score was 4379 but my racket head speeds were really up 61 on the forehand and 63 on my bh. Serve was up to 74. I'd love to say I was blasting the ball but it didn't seem 10 mph higher. Seemed liked the sensor was in the same place the whole time similar to where the POP band would hold it. Maybe as it got a little sweaty, it was riding farther down my wrist towards my hand and finger but it didn't seem to rotate laterally as much as the POP band would.

I'll probably try the POP wrist band next time out then go sweat band again to see if it was just an anomaly.

So using a sweatband might have 2 issues:

1.) Did the sweat band provide less protection than the POP band from sweat and now it is having transmission problems via blue tooth?
Although the POP band sure got wet with sweat too.

2.) Would the POP sensor sliding forward (1" at most) give data that makes it believe I'm swinging almost 10MPH faster or has the sweat from the sweat band corrupted its ability to work properly?

At this time I don't think I can put any blame on Babolat since I'm not using it as directed.

Are you now using the POP sensor tucked into a sweatband, or are you wearing a sweatband under the the POP wristband with sensor placed in the pouch?

 

[Robert F]

Are you now using the POP sensor tucked into a sweatband, or are you wearing a sweatband under the the POP wristband with sensor placed in the pouch?

A long time ago I'd put a sweat band over the POP wrist band but it felt too bulky.

So I went to just the POP Wristband. There have been 3 issues with the Wristband
1.) Will rotate/slide laterally--does this upset the data?
2.) If you play more than once a week, without washing it and when it gets full of sweat it can fall off.
3.) Soon after use the seams around the sensor have been ripping up.

Frustrated with it falling off during play several times in a row (it was a humid day and full of sweat), I tried putting it under a sweatband without the POP wristsbrand. It seemed to stay in place better and for several uses the data seem consistent with that from times I wore it with my POP wristband and had no issues transferring the data afterwards.

As noted above, I wonder if wearing it under a wrist band has damaged the sensors ability to transmit data. Strange that all my strokes were 10MPH faster. Maybe an anomaly with the sensor. I'm trying it with the POP wristband today and will see how it goes.

Not blaming Babolat for my using it not as instructed. Just trying to figure out the best way to make it work for me.

 

[Robert F]

Used today with the POP Wristband, no sweatband.
Appeared to read normal back to my usual MPH hitting zone and no issues downloading.

So could it be moisture from the sweatband or does the sensor heat up too much directly against my skin?

Next time out, I'm trying under the sweatband again to see if the other night was just an anomaly.

 

[Osteo UK]

After reading this today I decided to put the Pop back into its own harness and try again. I've used the Pop in its own band now maybe five times and there are only two stitches left in place at the pouch entry point. The stitching quality has been poor for most of us.

I can imagine Babolat not being happy with it under a sweatband on its own, but the original is sadly inadequate: drips with sweat, slips a little, have to be careful that you don't wipe it across your forehead if you use a sweatband too, and the stitching fails quickly as mentioned.

If we get the go ahead to keep it under the sweatband (not in the original band), then we have potential... as long as we don't accidentally switch it off when wiping our brow.

 

[Robert F]

Quick update.
Used my POP under a regular wristband twice now. Speeds are back to normal, so maybe I did something else wrong when I got the 10MPH boost. If only my swing were responsible.

But, it still struggled to connect and took 3-4 uploads before finally successful.

Adding to my wish list:
1.) Some type of local memory so that when I enter an opponent or location that is not in the data base it saves it for the future for possible auto fill.
2.) Ways to give title and notes to a session.
3.) Ways to look at data in a graph instead of an average. It would be nice to have a date vs. PIQ graph and date vs. Activity Level graph.
Having a graph function might make trends more clear then just your recent average PIQ score.

Thanks.

 

[Babolat Official]

A long time ago I'd put a sweat band over the POP wrist band but it felt too bulky.

So I went to just the POP Wristband. There have been 3 issues with the Wristband
1.) Will rotate/slide laterally--does this upset the data?
2.) If you play more than once a week, without washing it and when it gets full of sweat it can fall off.
3.) Soon after use the seams around the sensor have been ripping up.

Frustrated with it falling off during play several times in a row (it was a humid day and full of sweat), I tried putting it under a sweatband without the POP wristsbrand. It seemed to stay in place better and for several uses the data seem consistent with that from times I wore it with my POP wristband and had no issues transferring the data afterwards.

As noted above, I wonder if wearing it under a wrist band has damaged the sensors ability to transmit data. Strange that all my strokes were 10MPH faster. Maybe an anomaly with the sensor. I'm trying it with the POP wristband today and will see how it goes.

Not blaming Babolat for my using it not as instructed. Just trying to figure out the best way to make it work for me.

A couple answers to your questions:

1) To get the most accurate data, you should ensure the POP is on your wrist at the same place as the face of a watch would be. Otherwise, it will be less accurate.
2) Understandable, and we have solutions coming for the wristband.
3) If you are having wristband durability issues, give our warranty department a call: 1-877-316-9435 XT 284. They can help.

Used today with the POP Wristband, no sweatband.
Appeared to read normal back to my usual MPH hitting zone and no issues downloading.

So could it be moisture from the sweatband or does the sensor heat up too much directly against my skin?

Next time out, I'm trying under the sweatband again to see if the other night was just an anomaly.

I'll have a chat with our connected team to see how that may affect your readings and experience.

After reading this today I decided to put the Pop back into its own harness and try again. I've used the Pop in its own band now maybe five times and there are only two stitches left in place at the pouch entry point. The stitching quality has been poor for most of us.

I can imagine Babolat not being happy with it under a sweatband on its own, but the original is sadly inadequate: drips with sweat, slips a little, have to be careful that you don't wipe it across your forehead if you use a sweatband too, and the stitching fails quickly as mentioned.

If we get the go ahead to keep it under the sweatband (not in the original band), then we have potential... as long as we don't accidentally switch it off when wiping our brow.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into feasibility of using with a sweat band. We've been working on solutions for the wristband and we'll have updates very soon.

In the meantime, if you're having issues with the original wristband not holding up, give our warranty department a call: 1-877-316-9435 XT 284

Quick update.
Used my POP under a regular wristband twice now. Speeds are back to normal, so maybe I did something else wrong when I got the 10MPH boost. If only my swing were responsible.

But, it still struggled to connect and took 3-4 uploads before finally successful.

Adding to my wish list:
1.) Some type of local memory so that when I enter an opponent or location that is not in the data base it saves it for the future for possible auto fill.
2.) Ways to give title and notes to a session.
3.) Ways to look at data in a graph instead of an average. It would be nice to have a date vs. PIQ graph and date vs. Activity Level graph.
Having a graph function might make trends more clear then just your recent average PIQ score.

Thanks.

I appreciate the feedback. I'll share with the Connected product team.

 

[Osteo UK]

Just another update and review on my thoughts of the Pop so far after four weeks.

I've been keeping it under my sweatband and it seems to do the job ok. I'm in the UK and haven't contacted Babolat over the stitching issue on the band as all that will happen is at best a new band with the same problem after ten days.

I am though asking myself the same question each time I download the data: what's the point of this again?

Sure it tells me how many shots I'm hitting then gives me an arbitrary average technique score after hundreds of shots ... and that's it?

No graphs or data to look back upon, no listing of order of shots played (and whether I can determine if certain combos of shots lead to me making the same mis-hits on a regular basis). Nada. Just a basic summary.

I don't expect the Pop to be miraculously accurate all of the time (it can't distinguish serve from smash 50% of the time for example) but I am getting close to the stage of wondering what the point of it really is?

My hope had been to learn how to itemise my stroke play so that I could be more focused on what to improve, but the Pop app does not offer this. The next question is 'when' rather than 'if' I just chuck it in a draw and call it quits.

Summary so far: a good effort by Babolat, but not enough useful data. Interesting for a week or two to see your averages, but perhaps borrow one from a friend rather than buy one.

 

[Babolat Official]

Used today with the POP Wristband, no sweatband.
Appeared to read normal back to my usual MPH hitting zone and no issues downloading.

So could it be moisture from the sweatband or does the sensor heat up too much directly against my skin?

Next time out, I'm trying under the sweatband again to see if the other night was just an anomaly.

I spoke with the team regarding the POP and wearing it under a sweatband. The POP itself is water resistant to the standard of other consumer electronics, but by no means should you drop it in the pool. The sweat could affect the contacts that will allow the POP to charge, though it should not affect the readings. That said, I wouldn't necessarily advise wearing the POP directly on the skin for the charging contacts reason.

 

[Robert F]

I spoke with the team regarding the POP and wearing it under a sweatband. The POP itself is water resistant to the standard of other consumer electronics, but by no means should you drop it in the pool. The sweat could affect the contacts that will allow the POP to charge, though it should not affect the readings. That said, I wouldn't necessarily advise wearing the POP directly on the skin for the charging contacts reason.

So far no issues charging nor does it look like the contacts have corroded.
Still seems to have troubles downloading all the way through. Now taking 3-4 tries before fully downloaded when I had used it under a sweatband.
Will try again with the POP Band to see if that is a variable (assuming I haven't screwed it up some otherway).

 

[Robert F]

Looking back at Osteo UK's recent post, I'm still trying to figure out the immediate utility of the POP.

In the long run if my PIQ score improves and remains elevated, I'm probably a better player. But how do you use the data to get you there and stay there?
There isn't an immediate feedback mechanism to tell you what is good and bad.

If I have a 4200 PIQ, how do I get to 4500? And is that significant? I typically run between 4200 and 4500. Speed is the only variable you can regularly follow. But a higher average speed isn't always enough for a regularly higher PIQ. Still there are days I played great and will be around 4200 and other days I played a little fatigued and hit 4400.

Hopefully some type of improved feedback and better data tracking will be coming.

I still like the POP. But more out of fun and to see my speeds than as a clear tool of improvement.

 

[atp2015]

Looking back at Osteo UK's recent post, I'm still trying to figure out the immediate utility of the POP.

In the long run if my PIQ score improves and remains elevated, I'm probably a better player. But how do you use the data to get you there and stay there?
There isn't an immediate feedback mechanism to tell you what is good and bad.

If I have a 4200 PIQ, how do I get to 4500? And is that significant? I typically run between 4200 and 4500. Speed is the only variable you can regularly follow. But a higher average speed isn't always enough for a regularly higher PIQ. Still there are days I played great and will be around 4200 and other days I played a little fatigued and hit 4400.

Hopefully some type of improved feedback and better data tracking will be coming.

I still like the POP. But more out of fun and to see my speeds than as a clear tool of improvement.

I mainly track spin and style measured by POP (may be I'll start paying attention to speed after I get spin and style to respectable levels). Until I started using POP, I did not pay much attention to style (the fluidity of strokse). After seeing the below average spin and style numbers, I realized the areas that needed improvement (mainly the FH side). I give POP a lot of credit for improving my style (of play essentially the smoothness and consistent swing and finish). I have cleaned up jerky strokes and improper finish to a large extent.

>If I have a 4200 PIQ, how do I get to 4500?

For sure higher PIQ is better. Do you know what's contributing to your PIQ score? spin, speed and style? If you have 1400/1500 on each component, you have a very balanced game. If one of the three is lower than the others, there's something to look at. In my case, I had speed but no much spin and as you can imagine I was making a ton of unforced errors. In clutch moments, I was reducing the racket speed or simply blocking the serves - now that I have worked on improving spin quotient ( took me more than 3 months/twice week ) my returns have improved. It's definitely worth the money for my level of play. In summary, it's not just the PIQ score, it's what makes up the total and trying to work on the part that's a bit of struggle.

 

[Robert F]

Maybe I'm missing something but when you see the PIQ score breakdown that is based on your last 6 sessions. I don't think you get a breakdown for just one session.

I wished the PIQ score in a session was broken down by speed/spin/style. That might be valuable. If I'm working on adding spin to my forehand I could look at that metric. Then next time I play see if I maintained it. But right now I have to look at my PIQ score for the last 6 sessions to get a breakdown. It would be great if you could work on CC forehands for 10 minutes and then see your PIQ breakdown. My understanding is you cannot do that now. Sure you could add that session but you'd still be looking at your PIQ from the last 6 sessions.

Also if you could look at old sessions' and their individual breakdowns that would help you track data. Right now a 6 session PIQ summary from 3 months ago is gone. So you can't review it.

I guess this just echoes my past criticism of the data being too aggregate and not able to be broken down to analyze it.

My other problem with it being cumulative is that certain situations might really alter your PIQ score that it is hard to see if things are getting better or worse. If for 3 sessions I play baselines singles then for the next 3 sessions play serve and volley doubles, the doubles might sink my PIQ score (since there are less groundstrokes to be measured), despite the fact I might be playing well.

 

[atp2015]

Maybe I'm missing something but when you see the PIQ score breakdown that is based on your last 6 sessions. I don't think you get a breakdown for just one session.

I wished the PIQ score in a session was broken down by speed/spin/style. That might be valuable. If I'm working on adding spin to my forehand I could look at that metric. Then next time I play see if I maintained it. But right now I have to look at my PIQ score for the last 6 sessions to get a breakdown. It would be great if you could work on CC forehands for 10 minutes and then see your PIQ breakdown. My understanding is you cannot do that now. Sure you could add that session but you'd still be looking at your PIQ from the last 6 sessions.

Also if you could look at old sessions' and their individual breakdowns that would help you track data. Right now a 6 session PIQ summary from 3 months ago is gone. So you can't review it.

I guess this just echoes my past criticism of the data being too aggregate and not able to be broken down to analyze it.

My other problem with it being cumulative is that certain situations might really alter your PIQ score that it is hard to see if things are getting better or worse. If for 3 sessions I play baselines singles then for the next 3 sessions play serve and volley doubles, the doubles might sink my PIQ score (since there are less groundstrokes to be measured), despite the fact I might be playing well.

You do get per session breakdown in POP. (At least my version of does). Click on the share icon at the top right of the activity screen.

And also you get to see individual stroke type numbers in challenge mode. For example, if you start a challenge session on forehand, pop ignores other strokes. Not very direct, but there is a way...

 

[Robert F]

Ha, I do.
I've been clicking every where and that little Share dotted/triangle icon does the trick.
Not sure why they just wouldn't let you click the actual PIQ score to get the breakdown that seems more intuitive to me.
This will be a little more helpful to analyze session to session.

Let me add it is hard to see the PIQ breakdown via the dotted/triangle icon. For my old eyes, I have to send it to my notes so I can enlarge and read.

Thanks.

 

[Dan W]

You do get per session breakdown in POP. (At least my version of does). Click on the share icon at the top right of the activity screen.

And also you get to see individual stroke type numbers in challenge mode. For example, if you start a challenge session on forehand, pop ignores other strokes. Not very direct, but there is a way...

Wow, I'd never seen that either, and I've had POP since it came out. Thanks.

 

[sathee46]

You do get per session breakdown in POP. (At least my version of does). Click on the share icon at the top right of the activity screen.

And also you get to see individual stroke type numbers in challenge mode. For example, if you start a challenge session on forehand, pop ignores other strokes. Not very direct, but there is a way...

Wow, never knew this until now. It should be in the main activity screen possibly with the option to break down by strokes... So we know what needs to improve in our game

 

[Robert F]

Yeah if the PIQ was broken down in each session for BH and Forehand that would rock.
If I hit a big topspin FH but a slice BH, knowing the spin for each one might be very important and helpful to know what to work on.

 

[atp2015]

My main problem has been the reading of strokes - it misses to register serves and volleys a lot. For session with 40+ serves and 20+ volleys, I would get a reading of 20 serves and 3 volleys. I think I have the correct serve technique and volley - but POP does not get it. Since I'm really not looking for feedback on serves and volleys at this point (I do well with them while playing), it has been a low priority issue - but still does not make sense when I see a session overview.

 

[Robert F]

In regards to misses, I think a lot of my volleys convert to slow ground strokes, which messes with your PIQ and racket speed averages.

Now that I can look at PIQ breakdowns per session I'm a little confused by the following

PIQ 4048
5 style
42 mph avg speed
25% spin

vs.

PIQ 3934
5 style
43 mph avg speed
26% spin

I'm assuming there is some variance with the actual style score of 5. Why not just label that number as opposed to a simple number?

 

[atp2015]

In regards to misses, I think a lot of my volleys convert to slow ground strokes, which messes with your PIQ and racket speed averages.

Now that I can look at PIQ breakdowns per session I'm a little confused by the following

PIQ 4048
5 style
42 mph avg speed
25% spin

vs.

PIQ 3934
5 style
43 mph avg speed
26% spin

I'm assuming there is some variance with the actual style score of 5. Why not just label that number as opposed to a simple number?

Agreed. I guess you sacrificed style for speed and spin as they went up for a lower overall piq score.

 

[KluddKalle]

It great to be able to see the piq-score in detail for a session. It helped me understand why I went from a 4500 to a 3500 piq-average this summer. And the difference is all in the spin numbers. Which is weird because I haven't changed anything really. It went from 40-something % to 20-something % and kind of from one session to another.

But I still win the matches I'm supposed to be winning. So all is good.

 

[Nkster]

We really need more functions. I have used this device for 30 sessions now. When I started to use it was totally exited what my stats are and how good I am, but after 2 weeks it started to become boring, cause the results where pretty much the same.
Piq score between 5300-6300.
Fastest stroke 155-165kph
Style between 7-9, depended on how much volleying I did. More Volleys= less style points.
Max Piq between 8800-9800

I can't do anything with that data, because I have no clue, which stroke was the fastest or which had the highest Piq rating.

I don't now that much about app design but since the sensor collects the data of each stroke to measure the average speed/piq/spin/style score, it should be possible to make this data visible to the consumer.
The app already shows the data of single strokes in the live challenge mode, so this information could be saved on the phone/tablet, to create for example a graph.
Should be possible.
Also a live camera mode would be possible:
When you activate your sensor, while it is paired to the device, you could select a video record function.
The Piq score could be "attached" to the time code of the video, so you would receive a video with you hitting plus your Piq scores.

Actually this function is already available but it is too much work in my opinion.

For that you'll need:
1 device which is paired to your pop/piq sensor
And 2 devices which are able to record video footage.

You have one video camera right next to your device which is paired to your Pop/piq sensor.

The other camera is pointed on the tennis player with the pop/piq sensor.

You go into live challenge mode and now you have to choose which stroke you want to perform: Forehand, Backhand, Serve
You choose one of them and start your challenge.
Next you start to record with camera 1, which is pointed on the display of the device which is paired to the pop.
Then you start to record with camera 2 which is pointed on the tennis player.

Now you start your hitting session.

At the end of the session you turn off the whole stuff.
Now you need to edit the videos together, by matching the first stroke of your "pop movie" and your "hitting movie".
Important: it's much easier to do this, if your video cameras use the same frame rate.
Since the pop/piq only counts the hard strokes, you have to make shure your first hit is a "hard stroke". Otherwise it will mess up the whole thing.

In my eyes this should be possible to do with an app, since Sony smart sensor also has a function like this.

The problem is, I don't know where an how the information about the Piq score is saved. If it is on the sensor, it would be possible that the whole Piq/stlye/speed data has not enough place on the flash memory of the pop.
Would need insight on that.

I would really enjoy having this functions with my babolat pop, because right now this device doesn't help me, getting my game to the next level.

 

[Nkster]

I have more ideas, how to make this device/app much more useful.
Would love to contact with the research team of pop, since I think the tennis sensor have big potential. Just would like to know whether my ideas are new stuff or whether their are not.
Nkster

 

[racertempo]

I spoke with the team regarding the Pop.

Hope you can help again babolat official. I did a session today that was over 450 strokes and it synced, but keep giving me an error message when trying to qualify the session. After a phone restart, did an Uninstall and reinstall of the app, then it said there was a firmware update needed. I did the update, and not the unqualified session is gone and won't come back. Anything you guys can do on your end?

Thanks

 

[Dan W]

I was unable to qualify sessions this weekend as well. Probably some server side issue affecting us. I eventually lost the data trying various Android tricks with app data, so two hours of data is gone. I also had a session that missed maybe 30 minutes of recording for some reason.

My overall interest is starting to wane, as it's becoming more of a chore to sync, charge, and remember to bring it with me, especially since I'm not really using the data, as it's presented, to find out how to change my game.

If I used the social aspects more, like the challenge feature, I might still be interested, but after a year of owning it, I'm probably winding it down.

 

[Readers]

@Tennis_Monk have you tried other tennis trackers like Zepp, Tennis Sense, Qlipp? How do they compare?

Here's a nice explanation that I found: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-b...ice-as-ZIP-Sony-Babolat-POP-etc-on-the-market

Play sight, wish I have my own court with that...

One thing that really made me pick Sony over pop was impact location.

 

[Babolat Official]

Hope you can help again babolat official. I did a session today that was over 450 strokes and it synced, but keep giving me an error message when trying to qualify the session. After a phone restart, did an Uninstall and reinstall of the app, then it said there was a firmware update needed. I did the update, and not the unqualified session is gone and won't come back. Anything you guys can do on your end?

Thanks

I'm sorry to hear about that. When you save a session but don't qualify it, it only saves locally. After you qualify, then it is saved on our servers.

I understand you had an issue qualifying here, so that wasn't an option. But, when you uninstalled and reinstalled the app, it removed the local data, removing that session.

Again, I apologize, and I'm not sure what occurred with the qualification. The best bet is to make sure you have the most up to date firmware so that you can qualify and use the app with no issues.

I was unable to qualify sessions this weekend as well. Probably some server side issue affecting us. I eventually lost the data trying various Android tricks with app data, so two hours of data is gone. I also had a session that missed maybe 30 minutes of recording for some reason.

My overall interest is starting to wane, as it's becoming more of a chore to sync, charge, and remember to bring it with me, especially since I'm not really using the data, as it's presented, to find out how to change my game.

If I used the social aspects more, like the challenge feature, I might still be interested, but after a year of owning it, I'm probably winding it down.

I'm not sure what occurred here. Do you have the most up to date firmware?

 

[Babolat Official]

We really need more functions. I have used this device for 30 sessions now. When I started to use it was totally exited what my stats are and how good I am, but after 2 weeks it started to become boring, cause the results where pretty much the same.
Piq score between 5300-6300.
Fastest stroke 155-165kph
Style between 7-9, depended on how much volleying I did. More Volleys= less style points.
Max Piq between 8800-9800

I can't do anything with that data, because I have no clue, which stroke was the fastest or which had the highest Piq rating.

I don't now that much about app design but since the sensor collects the data of each stroke to measure the average speed/piq/spin/style score, it should be possible to make this data visible to the consumer.
The app already shows the data of single strokes in the live challenge mode, so this information could be saved on the phone/tablet, to create for example a graph.
Should be possible.
Also a live camera mode would be possible:
When you activate your sensor, while it is paired to the device, you could select a video record function.
The Piq score could be "attached" to the time code of the video, so you would receive a video with you hitting plus your Piq scores.

Actually this function is already available but it is too much work in my opinion.

For that you'll need:
1 device which is paired to your pop/piq sensor
And 2 devices which are able to record video footage.

You have one video camera right next to your device which is paired to your Pop/piq sensor.

The other camera is pointed on the tennis player with the pop/piq sensor.

You go into live challenge mode and now you have to choose which stroke you want to perform: Forehand, Backhand, Serve
You choose one of them and start your challenge.
Next you start to record with camera 1, which is pointed on the display of the device which is paired to the pop.
Then you start to record with camera 2 which is pointed on the tennis player.

Now you start your hitting session.

At the end of the session you turn off the whole stuff.
Now you need to edit the videos together, by matching the first stroke of your "pop movie" and your "hitting movie".
Important: it's much easier to do this, if your video cameras use the same frame rate.
Since the pop/piq only counts the hard strokes, you have to make shure your first hit is a "hard stroke". Otherwise it will mess up the whole thing.

In my eyes this should be possible to do with an app, since Sony smart sensor also has a function like this.

The problem is, I don't know where an how the information about the Piq score is saved. If it is on the sensor, it would be possible that the whole Piq/stlye/speed data has not enough place on the flash memory of the pop.
Would need insight on that.

I would really enjoy having this functions with my babolat pop, because right now this device doesn't help me, getting my game to the next level.

I have more ideas, how to make this device/app much more useful.
Would love to contact with the research team of pop, since I think the tennis sensor have big potential. Just would like to know whether my ideas are new stuff or whether their are not.
Nkster

I appreciate your feedback, as it's always helpful to have insights into what you all think of our products. With these ideas, I share them with our product team, and they take it into consideration when making future updates to products/apps.

If you have other ideas you'd like me to share, feel free to post them or e-mail to me at msafi@babolat.com.

 

[Dan W]

I'm sorry to hear about that. When you save a session but don't qualify it, it only saves locally. After you qualify, then it is saved on our servers.

I understand you had an issue qualifying here, so that wasn't an option. But, when you uninstalled and reinstalled the app, it removed the local data, removing that session.

Again, I apologize, and I'm not sure what occurred with the qualification. The best bet is to make sure you have the most up to date firmware so that you can qualify and use the app with no issues.



I'm not sure what occurred here. Do you have the most up to date firmware?

While I don't currently have the sensor on me to give you my exact FW version, I did check for a firmware update after the fact and it was still up to date.

 

[Dan W]

I'm sorry to hear about that. When you save a session but don't qualify it, it only saves locally. After you qualify, then it is saved on our servers.

I understand you had an issue qualifying here, so that wasn't an option. But, when you uninstalled and reinstalled the app, it removed the local data, removing that session.

Again, I apologize, and I'm not sure what occurred with the qualification. The best bet is to make sure you have the most up to date firmware so that you can qualify and use the app with no issues.



I'm not sure what occurred here. Do you have the most up to date firmware?

V 6.40.3108

 

[Babolat Official]

V 6.40.3108

Yes, that sounds like the correct version. I'm not sure what occurred in your case, and I'm sorry about the data loss. If you're still having these issues, you can give our After Sales department a call and they can help trouble shoot: 1-877-316-9435 xt 284

 

[Robert F]

I've been breaking down a lot of my training sessions in to smaller sessions by clicking the sensor on and off.
Data looks reasonable when I am hitting ground strokes.

But now I realize when we are practicing volleys about 1/3 are recorded as volleys and about a 2/3s are recorded as groundstrokes. Probably, my back swing is too big and maybe some are half volleys that have a bigger swing. When it records this way, its not a big deal when I'm just practicing volleys, but now I'm wondering if when I'm practicing ground strokes and come in, how many volleys are read as groundstrokes which then take down my speed, style and spin hence lowering my PIQ?

 

[atp2015]

I've been breaking down a lot of my training sessions in to smaller sessions by clicking the sensor on and off.
Data looks reasonable when I am hitting ground strokes.

But now I realize when we are practicing volleys about 1/3 are recorded as volleys and about a 2/3s are recorded as groundstrokes. Probably, my back swing is too big and maybe some are half volleys that have a bigger swing. When it records this way, its not a big deal when I'm just practicing volleys, but now I'm wondering if when I'm practicing ground strokes and come in, how many volleys are read as groundstrokes which then take down my speed, style and spin hence lowering my PIQ?

I have a very similar experience, but worse than yours. Only 1 in 10 volley gets registered and others are considered slices.
The least they could do is to completely ignore volleys and not sure if these folks are interested or willing to do fix or remove the feature. Wrong info is worse than no info.

 

[Robert F]

Odd thing happened tonight. Not sure if it was the sensor malfunctioning or if an update to the App changed the way it calculated the data.
I usually get between 4000-4500 PIQ score for a session that is focused on ground strokes or playing singles.

Tonight I played my buddy and in our warmup my PIQ score was round 4800. Higher than normal, and I felt I was hitting well but nothing special.
Then after volleys, I reset the sensor for our competitive hitting and it registered me at about 7,000. With this my style was an 8, Avy MPH 55 and spin% was 66.
I played well but not out of my mind tennis. Nothing else seemed odd.

Typically my style is between 5, 6 on a good day. Speed will be closer to 45-50 and spin is between 25-30%. So I wonder what happened? Sensor seemed to stay in place well.

Then when I looked at my Profile that breakdowns your average peak score (for the last 6 sessions), Obviously my avg PIQ will be up since I got this boost from today's 7,000 session. Avg PIQ was 5009 with a style of 6, Average speed listed as 20, but the blue color dial takes up almost half the rolling column and then spin was at 34%.

So is something wrong with the output regarding average speed for the Average PIQ score? The picture looks more around 50mph plus, but it says 20 which would not correlate with a 5009 PIQ. Strange.

 

[kimguroo]

Odd thing happened tonight. Not sure if it was the sensor malfunctioning or if an update to the App changed the way it calculated the data.
I usually get between 4000-4500 PIQ score for a session that is focused on ground strokes or playing singles.

Tonight I played my buddy and in our warmup my PIQ score was round 4800. Higher than normal, and I felt I was hitting well but nothing special.
Then after volleys, I reset the sensor for our competitive hitting and it registered me at about 7,000. With this my style was an 8, Avy MPH 55 and spin% was 66.
I played well but not out of my mind tennis. Nothing else seemed odd.

Typically my style is between 5, 6 on a good day. Speed will be closer to 45-50 and spin is between 25-30%. So I wonder what happened? Sensor seemed to stay in place well.

Then when I looked at my Profile that breakdowns your average peak score (for the last 6 sessions), Obviously my avg PIQ will be up since I got this boost from today's 7,000 session. Avg PIQ was 5009 with a style of 6, Average speed listed as 20, but the blue color dial takes up almost half the rolling column and then spin was at 34%.

So is something wrong with the output regarding average speed for the Average PIQ score? The picture looks more around 50mph plus, but it says 20 which would not correlate with a 5009 PIQ. Strange.

Recently it was updated and Babolat said that don't be surprised if numbers are higher.
I usually had over 3000 but yesterday I got 7000 haha.

 

[atp2015]

Recently it was updated and Babolat said that don't be surprised if numbers are higher.
I usually had over 3000 but yesterday I got 7000 haha.

The latest update seems to have fixed my volley calculation as well. I always got 1-2 volleys registered in a 2 set match and starting two days ago the numbers are 20+ (about right).

 

[Robert F]

Got a 5100 and 6300 today.
Not sure I like the updated PIQ scores.

First, if a pro tennis player is around 10,000. It made sense for me a 4.0 to be around 4000-4500.
But now I've gotten a 5K, 6K and 7K. I think I'm at best 40% of the lowest pro tennis player, not 60%.

Also the variability seems even wider than it was before. If I had 2 session where I felt the same they might rate 4100 and 4300.
Now I had a session of 5100 and 6300. Only difference were more groundies in the second session. Play overall close. But now over 1000 points away.

Spin numbers have gone up greatly. Did that mean the old method was way off? I might agree with that since I thought I hit with a lot of spin.

Also the Average FH or BH speed will be around 50, but then the AVG speed reported on the PIQ score will be 55. How can it be higher if my Avg FH was 50 and Avg BH was 50?Yet all I hit were groundies. No serves and maybe a handful of smashes.

I'll give it more time obviously.