Babolat POP tennis sensor

KluddKalle

KluddKalle

Semi-Pro
@Babolat Official I see that you've updated the app again. The description for the update says something about a new discovery mode. But inside the app I can't find anything like this. So I'm curious about what this feature is and how to find it. :)

Thanks for your response above by the way! Much appreciated!
 
Babolat Official

Babolat Official

Hall of Fame
Noah Swift said:
Do I have to use a phone with it at the moment I turn it on? or can i wait until I'm at home and sync then @Babolat Official
Click to expand...

No, the POP has internal flash memory and can record up to 300 hours of play. We do recommend pairing at least once to your device before use.

KluddKalle said:
@Babolat Official I see that you've updated the app again. The description for the update says something about a new discovery mode. But inside the app I can't find anything like this. So I'm curious about what this feature is and how to find it. :)

Thanks for your response above by the way! Much appreciated!
Click to expand...

I'll follow up on this.
 
R

Robert F

Hall of Fame
Babolat Official said:
I spoke with the Connected team, and they had a few answers to shar

I'll share this average speed situation with the team. Is it possible to send me screenshots at msafi@babolat.com?
Click to expand...
I sent you screen shots of that session and the breakdowns for the FH and BH.
The issue was the Avg PIQ speed was higher than the Avg of my BH and FH with very little shots outside of that.
-Bob
 
R

Robert F

Hall of Fame
Odd night tonight.
PIQ score too high 8635.
Avg FH Speed 61
Avg BH Speed 64

Usually I'm PIQing aroudn 6000 now and a good day will get into the 7000s.
Avg FH 45-50
Avg BH 44-49

Plus we just played baseline games today. Yet it registered 46 smashes and 34 serves.
In actuality I hit a 1/2 dozen smashes, maybe another 1/2 dozen high volleys and probably a dozen or more high forehands and backhands above my shoulder due to my opponents spin.

In roughly 56 sessions since October, this is the first time it happened.
Prior to October I think it happened one other time.

Wish the numbers were right but I know I was hitting way above my norm.

Anybody else have this happen? Just an anomaly?
If I wore the sensor backwards or upside down would that explain it? I don't think I did?
 
T

TahoeTennis

Legend
Training with POP:
drago.jpg

Training Without POP:
maxresdefault.jpg
 
R

Robert F

Hall of Fame
Still confused how a POPcomputes the PIQ Speed for a session. Often it seems to be a higher number than the average of my groundstrokes. This would make sense if I had a big serve and did a lot of serving, but even when just hitting groundies, seems I'll get a 46 avg FH and 43 avg BH, then my PIQ speed was 53?
 
Babolat Official

Babolat Official

Hall of Fame
Robert F said:
Still confused how a POPcomputes the PIQ Speed for a session. Often it seems to be a higher number than the average of my groundstrokes. This would make sense if I had a big serve and did a lot of serving, but even when just hitting groundies, seems I'll get a 46 avg FH and 43 avg BH, then my PIQ speed was 53?
Click to expand...

That's odd. I will share with our Connected Products team and let you know what their update is.
 
R

Robert F

Hall of Fame
Adding a brief update.
Seems it no longer has problems downloading. No longer getting errors and having to resynch it to download. I haven't been using the POP band at all, I just put it under a big sweat band and it seems to work fine.

Still confused as to how my PIQ Score Speed is higher than my average ground stroke speeds.

Also, it seems more consistent than it was in the past. I used to get really high scores playing singles and lower scores playing doubles. Now the spread is much closer.
 
kimguroo

kimguroo

Legend
I almost always use pop and honestly I don't pay attention data too much nowadays and accuracy of shots are gone bad months ago especially volley and overhead counts.
When I play during drills, I had at least 5-10 min of volley and 5 min of overhead drills but only have less than 20 volleys and 1-3 overheads data...
 
Dan W

Dan W

New User
kimguroo said:
I almost always use pop and honestly I don't pay attention data too much nowadays and accuracy of shots are gone bad months ago especially volley and overhead counts.
When I play during drills, I had at least 5-10 min of volley and 5 min of overhead drills but only have less than 20 volleys and 1-3 overheads data...
Click to expand...

Similar experience, but I think the reason these two types of shots are tough is:

1) There's a line somewhere between what's really a volley versus what's a groundstroke. Since everyone's motions are a bit different and follow-through can be short or long, it seems like a tough call to make just based on sensor input. My volley count is always low, so my assumption is the algorithm thinks my volleys are often ground strokes.

2) My theory on overheads is it's impossible to differentiate a serve vs. an overhead without some context. An overhead drill is probably treated like serving practice since it's repetitive. Now if the sensor algorithm has the context of several shots immediately before an overhead, with no pause in-between, it probably is able to determine you were playing a point with a final put away overhead. This theory explains why my serve count is always too high when doing these drills.

One would think you could improve #1 by adjusting some threshold that determines the line between one vs. the other, at the risk of creating the opposite problem. I don't know how you really improve #2.
 
kimguroo

kimguroo

Legend
Dan W said:
Similar experience, but I think the reason these two types of shots are tough is:

1) There's a line somewhere between what's really a volley versus what's a groundstroke. Since everyone's motions are a bit different and follow-through can be short or long, it seems like a tough call to make just based on sensor input. My volley count is always low, so my assumption is the algorithm thinks my volleys are often ground strokes.

2) My theory on overheads is it's impossible to differentiate a serve vs. an overhead without some context. An overhead drill is probably treated like serving practice since it's repetitive. Now if the sensor algorithm has the context of several shots immediately before an overhead, with no pause in-between, it probably is able to determine you were playing a point with a final put away overhead. This theory explains why my serve count is always too high when doing these drills.

One would think you could improve #1 by adjusting some threshold that determines the line between one vs. the other, at the risk of creating the opposite problem. I don't know how you really improve #2.
Click to expand...

I have Sony sensor. It's not perfect but better accuracy than Pop but pop is just grab and go style so I rarely use Sony sensor nowadays but if I need more accurate info, I use Sony sensor to see anything to monitor.

I used pop for decent period of time and counting volleys and and overhead numbers were much accurate before.
Probably Those firmware and app updates were gone bad. A few months ago, I started to notice this problem but never really addressed until now since I was bit lazy and did not really pay attention to data.
 
KluddKalle

KluddKalle

Semi-Pro
kimguroo said:
I almost always use pop and honestly I don't pay attention data too much nowadays and accuracy of shots are gone bad months ago especially volley and overhead counts.
When I play during drills, I had at least 5-10 min of volley and 5 min of overhead drills but only have less than 20 volleys and 1-3 overheads data...
Click to expand...

I've used pop for almost a year now and I don't pay much attention to the stats either. But that's mostly because they don't change all that much which make it less interesting.the winning factors have actually been somewhat helpful, but they don't change much after a while either.

But I stilll use it because it's a great way to keep track of all my tennis.
 
R

Robert F

Hall of Fame
If you don't look at any of the stats, what utility does it have?

I find the stats somewhat helpful when you do focused and discrete practices.
So when I do a groundstroke only drill I can compare it to other groundstroke only drills.

When I've done volley only drills, roughly 1/3 of my shots register as volleys, 1/3 as backhands and 1/3 as forehands.

It is tougher to compare the data from a match to another match because there are so many variables in a match. If I play a guy that slugs it out, chances are I'll have less slice shots and hence my groundstroke speeds will be reflective of my groundstrokes. But it I pay someone who it hitting a lot of crap or pulling me in to the net, I might wind up hitting more slice from the ground and more volleys. Now my groundstroke speed will be much done due to misread volleys and some of the slice work. So hard to know.
 
KluddKalle

KluddKalle

Semi-Pro
Robert F said:
If you don't look at any of the stats, what utility does it have?

I find the stats somewhat helpful when you do focused and discrete practices.
So when I do a groundstroke only drill I can compare it to other groundstroke only drills.
Click to expand...

It's become a habit. :)

I do look at them but I mainly play matches so you're right about the stats potentially being too different to compare. But actually it was very useful last summer, I could distinctly see that I played different against different players. So it helped me see when I played too much defence (slower swing speeds and a lot of slices) and work on that against those players.

What I meant was that now, after more than 100hours logged on the pop there really isn't that much difference from session to session.

I agree that if used with focused drills it would be even more useful.
 
haqq777

haqq777

Legend
Hi @Babolat Official

Had to dig this thread up since I had a concern with my POP. I purchased it through Tennis Warehouse and have been very happy with it.

My only concern is that the sewing that holds the POP sensor in the band is coming undone and I know that within days, it will be impossible for the actual POP sensor to stay in the band as I am playing tennis. The seem coming undone is progressing really fast too.

Pictures below:

TEeiK2i.jpg


bU4G6lX.jpg


xZ1YARh.jpg


I can send more pics in if needed. I take very good care of my equipment and it just seems the band sewing was not durable at all.

Is there anything that can be done? Perhaps just a new strap that can be sent to me? I tried emailing Babolat but have not heard back.

Would really appreciate your help.
 
O

Osteo UK

Rookie
This is a common if not natural progression of Pop ownership.

My band did the same within a few uses and is a design / manufacturing flaw. You could replace it, but you'd need one a month or sooner.

I ended up placing it under my wrist band which has been better all round. I now don't have the Pop band cluttering up my forearm competing for real estate and if you wiped it across your forehead unintentionally, it was irritating.

There were some thoughts that with it being in contact with sweaty skin that there could be an issue. One year later and it's no problem.

Not that I would recommend this next part, but last month I forget to take it out of my shorts pocket.

It went through the wash with no issues either.

Having an app that allows you to get detailed info of your choosing is still the main problem. It's still designed to be "looked at" rather than interactive, which keeps it still feeling that it's a toy rather than a tool.
 
H

havighurst

New User
I found wristbands on the bay that had a little zippered pocket that fit the POP quite well. The best part was that they were cheap.
 
Babolat Official

Babolat Official

Hall of Fame
haqqani1777 said:
Hi @Babolat Official

Had to dig this thread up since I had a concern with my POP. I purchased it through Tennis Warehouse and have been very happy with it.

My only concern is that the sewing that holds the POP sensor in the band is coming undone and I know that within days, it will be impossible for the actual POP sensor to stay in the band as I am playing tennis. The seem coming undone is progressing really fast too.

Pictures below:

TEeiK2i.jpg


bU4G6lX.jpg


xZ1YARh.jpg


I can send more pics in if needed. I take very good care of my equipment and it just seems the band sewing was not durable at all.

Is there anything that can be done? Perhaps just a new strap that can be sent to me? I tried emailing Babolat but have not heard back.

Would really appreciate your help.
Click to expand...

Hi @haqqani1777 , we can certainly send you a new wristband. Please email me at smcmanus@babolat.com with your details. Thanks!
 
P

patrick.irie16

New User
Hi has anyone contacted technical support? I emailed them and have not had a reply. I asked a simple question about racket head speed compared to actual ball speed. What is the correlation formula or difference between the two. So if racket head speed is 50mph what is the ball speed?

Sent from my HUAWEI P8max using Tapatalk
 
R

Robert F

Hall of Fame
patrick.irie16 said:
Hi has anyone contacted technical support? I emailed them and have not had a reply. I asked a simple question about racket head speed compared to actual ball speed. What is the correlation formula or difference between the two. So if racket head speed is 50mph what is the ball speed?

Sent from my HUAWEI P8max using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Wish there was a direct conversion, but my understanding there are too many factors.

--Weight of Racquet/effective mass hitting the ball (more mass at same racquet head speed would result in more ball speed)
--Incoming Speed of Ball
--Racquet Path (how much of the energy of the swing goes into creating spin vs pace)
--String Set up--type of strings/ tension.
--spin on ball.

A Bunch of Factors that a single sensor won't be able to estimate.
 
P

patrick.irie16

New User
Thanks so without a speed gun there is no hope for any senor. I guess it boils down to beating your personal best every time and that is the baseline measure. Another simple question regarding back hand . the app states I hit all backhand flat. Is it measuring single or double or is it measuring the correct motion of the racket. I assume its the latter and I just need to improve my back hand spin. I am impressed with the way the app helps you to focus when playing.

BTW What is an open session?

Sent from my HUAWEI P8max using Tapatalk
 
T

Tennis_Monk

Hall of Fame
An open session is where the session is open to public or your data is available to public. J/k

Open session is more like do what you please kinda stuff. A hitting session.

patrick.irie16 said:
Thanks so without a speed gun there is no hope for any senor. I guess it boils down to beating your personal best every time and that is the baseline measure. Another simple question regarding back hand . the app states I hit all backhand flat. Is it measuring single or double or is it measuring the correct motion of the racket. I assume its the latter and I just need to improve my back hand spin. I am impressed with the way the app helps you to focus when playing.

BTW What is an open session?

Sent from my HUAWEI P8max using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
n
 
R

Robert F

Hall of Fame
Match is obviously a match.
Training for me is a session where I did focused game improvement work--either drills or games that are focused on working on a game.
An open session for me is a session where I just hit around with a buddy. Just fun and open practice, no direct goal.

Honestly, not sure why there is a distinction, unless the data was able to be separated based on session type. It would be interesting to see if my PIQ score was higher for matches vs. open sessions vs. training sessions. You could see some logic that they might be different.
Am I more relaxed just hitting around and hence hit with more speed or do I play better when I focus on a goal?

Still my overall frustration with the PIQ is the inability to see data per shot not just aggregates. If I do a drill session working on my net game, a bunch of half volleys and volleys might drag my peak score down. The half-volleys might be interpreted as Forehands and hence my speed might be lower which if I reviewed the data down the road and forgot it was a net focused session, I'd wonder what happened to my speed.

Plus it still can misread loose volleys as groundies.
Today I served a 70 ball hopper of serves and it recorded 40 serves and 12 overheads. Not sure how it missed almost 20 serves.

Still fun to use.
 
P

patrick.irie16

New User
Yes all valid and my main aim is to keep improving the piq score. I agree with all your statement's. I am trying to view the volley shots but as you said I think it records as forehand some of the time. It would be interesting to find out what is the next step in the development of this app? At the moment it is fun and good to have some stats post training and match / open sessions. The other area is the emotional side regarding focus on different situations when playing matches opposed to drills training or just hitting. It also helps if you play different people and do the post match analysis to determine your level of shot types and speed of shots. I know when I play someone who has loads of spin, my spin rate increases. My back hand spin is still a problem . since using the piq I have not recorded one backhand spin.

Sent from my HUAWEI P8max using Tapatalk
 
T

Tennis_Monk

Hall of Fame
The sensor is useless for me as far as serves go. I had many sessions where I rallied around and never hit a single serve but it thought I hit 50. When I actually practiced serves exclusively for few sessions, it felt that I hit volleys and a few overheards.

I only use it for forehands and backhands.
The only other sensors I used are qlipp and my experience was worse with it-- sensor always came off the racquet. There is this iwunu sensor which doesn't work and unstable as well.
 
P

patrick.irie16

New User
Hi anyone know why the PIQ Robot fails to provide winning factors , although I had a long session with many shots? I had winning factors on sessions of less duration and shots. Is it just a case of failing to hit correctly. Thanks in advance

Sent from my HUAWEI P8max using Tapatalk
 
haqq777

haqq777

Legend
Babolat Official said:
Hi @haqqani1777 , we can certainly send you a new wristband. Please email me at smcmanus@babolat.com with your details. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I would like to give a huge shout out to Sean @Babolat Official and the team for being so quick and proper about customer service. Sean went above and beyond and sent the band the next day. I received the package a couple of days ago but just got time to post here. Really happy with Babolat customer service and Sean's quick reply and taking care of the band issue for me. I would be recommending Babolat and their products because of the top notch customer service they provide. You have made a loyal customer out of me.
 
Babolat Official

Babolat Official

Hall of Fame
haqqani1777 said:
I would like to give a huge shout out to Sean @Babolat Official and the team for being so quick and proper about customer service. Sean went above and beyond and sent the band the next day. I received the package a couple of days ago but just got time to post here. Really happy with Babolat customer service and Sean's quick reply and taking care of the band issue for me. I would be recommending Babolat and their products because of the top notch customer service they provide. You have made a loyal customer out of me.
Click to expand...

Hi @haqqani1777,

Thanks so much for the kind words and the shout out. Sean is the best :) Seriously though, thanks for taking the time to let us know about your experience. Always nice to hear. Hope the new band holds up, and thanks for supporting Babolat!

-Josh
 
S

Scuoteguazza

New User
I just updated my iPhone 6 to iOS 11. Now the POP app crashes whenever I try to open it. Will Babolat be releasing a version that is compatible with iOS 11?
 
Taveren

Taveren

Professional
Hi I just got my Babolat Pop today, how long does the unit charge before I see the yellow light indicating that it is charging?
 
S

Scuoteguazza

New User
I did the same thing. It worked once then started crashing again. I can get it to work by closing all apps then restarting the phone. Even after doing this sometimes it still takes opening the app multiple times before it stays open.
 
KluddKalle

KluddKalle

Semi-Pro
Scuoteguazza said:
Even after doing this sometimes it still takes opening the app multiple times before it stays open.
Click to expand...

It actually did this on my phone long before ios11. Never bothered to think much about it since I always got it to work, but something is definitely wrong with the app at the moment.
 
Babolat Official

Babolat Official

Hall of Fame
Hi all, the POP sensor should be compatible with iOS 11 but if you are still having issues, please reach out to our warranty team directly. Our manager Jason Costello can address the issue and file a ticket with PIQ our technology partner. Jason can be reached at 720-542-6312 or jcostello@babolat.com.

Thanks for your patience and we hope to have resolved ASAP.

-Sean
 
S

soki

New User
@Babolat Official
My Babolat POP is no longer syncing with my phone. Maybe something is wrong with its bluetooth? With my POP on (3 blue blinking lights which means the battery isn't low), I go to the Babolat POP app on my Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S7) and press the sensor icon in the top right. The color always stays orange and never goes green. I have tried unpairing (red POP icon) and re-pairing and it often takes several rounds of turning everything on/off before it becomes re-paired which makes me think the bluetooth might be broken. I use my phone for other bluetooth devices all the time without any issue (Pokemon Go Plus, bluetooth headphones).

IIRC, the Babolat POP should appear in the bluetooth menu of my phone (I know this isn't how you're supposed to connect to it), but it's not for me. I bought this off Amazon in October 2017 so it's only a few months old. Any ideas?

https://imgur.com/a/g8rud
 
R

Robert F

Hall of Fame
soki said:
@Babolat Official
My Babolat POP is no longer syncing with my phone. Maybe something is wrong with its bluetooth? With my POP on (3 blue blinking lights which means the battery isn't low), I go to the Babolat POP app on my Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S7) and press the sensor icon in the top right. The color always stays orange and never goes green. I have tried unpairing (red POP icon) and re-pairing and it often takes several rounds of turning everything on/off before it becomes re-paired which makes me think the bluetooth might be broken. I use my phone for other bluetooth devices all the time without any issue (Pokemon Go Plus, bluetooth headphones).

IIRC, the Babolat POP should appear in the bluetooth menu of my phone (I know this isn't how you're supposed to connect to it), but it's not for me. I bought this off Amazon in October 2017 so it's only a few months old. Any ideas?

https://imgur.com/a/g8rud
Click to expand...

I was having problems getting the APP to load the past few weeks. So I deleted the APP and re-loaded it. It is working much smoother now. Maybe that will help.
 
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