I guess that recognizing volleys isn't that easy. I never had any particular issues with it, but it's also not the shot I care about most. I think a clear movement of your arm has to be involved for the POP to recognize it - just dropping the ball off your racket won't cut it. Especially during a match, that might happen. I had a 2 hour training session some weeks ago where we also did quite some volleys. In the end, the POP recognized 511 FH, 214 BH and 307 Volleys, which seems legit.
Babolat POP tennis sensor
- Thread starter Solo Lee
- Start date
Dan W
New User
No. It measures the speed of your arm, not the speed of the ball, so the quality of the strings is a non-factor.
atp2015
Hall of Fame
Dan W
New User
I had asked this question a couple months ago. I was told by the Babolat rep that it only counts what it determines as active time, so downtime/breaks shouldn't count in the shots per min calculation.
atp2015
Hall of Fame
Managed to get some volleys registered - it appears that really short volleys get recorded in POP. I tried a few volleys with less than 2 feet racket movement, and showed up in POP. But, I don't think it's right - proper volley technique asks for much more movement of racket than 2 feet.
Dan W
New User
I typically get scolded regularly during my lessons for swinging too much during volleys. Direction to me has always been hold the racket steady and out in front, use your feet to move forward and through the ball, limit racket movement to a very short "pop" at the ball on contact, and never swing or swipe at the ball during contact.
I of course typically do this all wrong, take a swing, and hit the ball into the net or past the baseline.
atp2015
Hall of Fame
I'm not sure - see this video of Fed's practice.
Racket moves a lot more than 2 feet. I have been trying to copy this for a year now and I rarely miss the shot these days.
Dan W
New User
Hey, if you've got Fed's volley skills, by all means keep doing it, and to hell with what POP tells you! 
I think my instructors tailor their advice based on me not being the greatest tennis player ever.
I would love Babolat to post POP sessions from some of their top sponsored pros. Like what would Rafa's spin rate look like?
I think my instructors tailor their advice based on me not being the greatest tennis player ever.
I would love Babolat to post POP sessions from some of their top sponsored pros. Like what would Rafa's spin rate look like?
atp2015
Hall of Fame
Hey, if you've got Fed's volley skills, by all means keep doing it, and to hell with what POP tells you!
I think my instructors tailor their advice based on me not being the greatest tennis player ever.
I would love Babolat to post POP sessions from some of their top sponsored pros. Like what would Rafa's spin rate look like?
I'm trying to be better than Fed with the help of POP
thinking about it again, it might be very difficult to be accurate for POP to classify a volley. It does not know whether the ball had bounced before or not. If I were the POP designer, I would remove volley from the app until I can figure out a way to get the volley classification right at least 75% of the time.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Mine was an impulse buy that I am somewhat regretting. I wish I'd done more research and thought about it - I believe I would have spent more money and bought one of the more sophisticated options. The ones that show where you're hitting the ball on the face of the racquet are probably the best to help improve your strokes/game. The Pop gives some interesting info - but not sure at my level (4.5) that it's going to help me improve.
Interested in the others' comments.
atp2015
Hall of Fame
I find it useful because I'm still working on improving stroke production and POP gives the measure of spin and style(fluidity). I have used POP while working on shadow strokes to improve spin and fluidity.
The 4.5s I have played against had good grooved strokes and I don't think they can use POP effectively to improve further. I'm a weak 4 and probably will outgrow POP when/if my strokes go up by a level.
Overall, I have enjoyed using it. But it is still a little too basick
I think the feature it lacks compared to other sensors is immediate/realtime feedback and breakdown data of the individual strokes
In a session you just get an average forehand speed. That's OK data, but it makes it hard to compare strokes within a session. If I played someone who was pushing me back and I had to hit a lot of defense, my average forehand speed might be down due to some defensive slices, but I still might be hitting my drive forehand fine. Yet the gross data makes it looked like my forehand was slow that day. Also if the shot data was broken down it might allow you to assess different training areas. Say how my approach shot compares to my baseline shot in regards to speed and spin.
If my racquet was easily compatible with one of the other sensors I'd consider switching. But the Zepp looks too ugly and I don't want to take down my grips and put on a new butt cap for the Sony sensor. So the POP stays. If the POP allowed you to get immediate info or at least breakdown the speed of each shot like other programs, I don't know if I'd be tempted to switch.
I think the feature it lacks compared to other sensors is immediate/realtime feedback and breakdown data of the individual strokes
In a session you just get an average forehand speed. That's OK data, but it makes it hard to compare strokes within a session. If I played someone who was pushing me back and I had to hit a lot of defense, my average forehand speed might be down due to some defensive slices, but I still might be hitting my drive forehand fine. Yet the gross data makes it looked like my forehand was slow that day. Also if the shot data was broken down it might allow you to assess different training areas. Say how my approach shot compares to my baseline shot in regards to speed and spin.
If my racquet was easily compatible with one of the other sensors I'd consider switching. But the Zepp looks too ugly and I don't want to take down my grips and put on a new butt cap for the Sony sensor. So the POP stays. If the POP allowed you to get immediate info or at least breakdown the speed of each shot like other programs, I don't know if I'd be tempted to switch.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
I very much appreciate all of the feedback. We're constantly working on improving the product, and we'll do our best to address concerns.
Also, the PIQScore is based on a scale for the pro's, so professionals would be scoring at 10,000.
Also, the PIQScore is based on a scale for the pro's, so professionals would be scoring at 10,000.
Dan W
New User
I'm still using mine regularly. I purchased it in October '15.
My overall take away is that it has made me concentrate far more on my form and speed when I play. I notice if I'm lazy or disengaged, my score suffers relatively speaking.
I would find the numbers far more useful if I could access the raw data and look for trends, graph things, etc...
My overall take away is that it has made me concentrate far more on my form and speed when I play. I notice if I'm lazy or disengaged, my score suffers relatively speaking.
I would find the numbers far more useful if I could access the raw data and look for trends, graph things, etc...
Another feature to consider adding is an easy way to reset for a new session. That way if I'm playing a match I could set each set as a session and then compare the speeds and piq scores of each set to see what I did better and worse. Of course access to the individual shot data would help that too.
Also if it was easy to click new session, that might help divide info up during training. I sort of do this already by turning the sensor off when I do mini-tennis since it would bring my PIQ score and swing speeds down.
Also if it was easy to click new session, that might help divide info up during training. I sort of do this already by turning the sensor off when I do mini-tennis since it would bring my PIQ score and swing speeds down.
atp2015
Hall of Fame
I agree, more granular data would be great.
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Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
Interesting point. This sounds a lot like the flagging feature in Play, though ideally more user friendly.
I'll share that with the team. Thanks for the feedback!
racertempo
Semi-Pro
Yes, I mentioned that a while back, if you are in the middle of a match and want to break it into sets, you can do with a button touch for the Play. I know the Pop needs to protect from an accidential tap, but maybe 2 or 3 successive taps to start a new session. I hate that I have to download each session, even when practicing.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Am I missing something or is it not possible to go back and change the court surface/weather for a 'training' (practice) session? Sometimes I forget.
I don't mind - but it seems slow. Transfer rates for Bluetooth should be faster; doesn't seem like it's that much data (note: I'm an IT guy at a big company and deal with GBs daily).
racertempo
Semi-Pro
I agree with you, there is no way to go back and add weather or the court to a session, I with that could be edited after a session is added.
In a training session it is not the end of the world, but it would be nice for it to be simpler. My bigger problem is doing it at the end of a set in a match. If a set score is even, you/we usually don't take a break until after the next game. I believe USTA rules say that start the next set in sequence and break after the the game. So running over for a few minutes to unlock my phone, then get the app to register the session and download it...then to have to re-pair and get another session started is tough in the middle of a match.
On another note, maybe Babolat Official can help with this....if you are indoors and don't have a phone signal, can you sync outdoors then go inside without 3g or 4g signal and have the data record and download later?
Choachy
New User
I've had my POP since December 2015 (Christmas), and have recorded about 32 sessions/matches/trainings with it. I believe the developers have done a great job continually improving the product. I've found it to be useful for identifying trends in my game. I look forward to looking at the data after a match or session.
Like others have said, granularity of data would be awesome. And along that same line, I'd like to see some charts/graphs that show trending over time on say: stroke speeds, # of backhands, # of forehands, etc.
My only problem with the POP so far is that the wristband is already wearing out. The slot where you slide the sensor in is becoming unstitched. Within a match or two, there is no way the sensor will stay in place, as it will just slide right through and fall out. HOWEVER, big compliments to Tennis Warehouse and their customer service (which is always great). Called them yesterday and they are sending me a new POP wristband.
For me and my game...the POP is not a gimmick. I'm finding real use out of it, and I feel with the recent updates its become very accurate for recording my game. Looking forward to seeing what else we're going to be able to do with it.
Like others have said, granularity of data would be awesome. And along that same line, I'd like to see some charts/graphs that show trending over time on say: stroke speeds, # of backhands, # of forehands, etc.
My only problem with the POP so far is that the wristband is already wearing out. The slot where you slide the sensor in is becoming unstitched. Within a match or two, there is no way the sensor will stay in place, as it will just slide right through and fall out. HOWEVER, big compliments to Tennis Warehouse and their customer service (which is always great). Called them yesterday and they are sending me a new POP wristband.
For me and my game...the POP is not a gimmick. I'm finding real use out of it, and I feel with the recent updates its become very accurate for recording my game. Looking forward to seeing what else we're going to be able to do with it.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
At the moment, I believe that once a session is validated, it cannot be edited. I just attempted on mine, and it appears to be as such. I can let the team know about this feedback about editing sessions after the fact, especially if it's an item like court surface. One of the arguments for not being able to change validated sessions is so that people cannot cherry pick sessions/edit the factors (such as how they feel) to help improve their score or reflect a different story for the match.
Interesting. As someone else pointed out, you can turn the POP on and then off, so that's one way to break up the sessions.
Moreover, yes, the POP has internal flash memory to record a session. Plus, the POP uses bluetooth, so if you're not connected to your phone, you will be able to still use everything except for the live challenge feature.
Glad to hear you're enjoying it! As far as the wristband, yes, Tennis Warehouse has excellent customer service and are quite easy to work with. If you're having wristband issues again in the future, you can also call our warranty department: 1-877-316-9435 ext 284.
racertempo
Semi-Pro
Beautiful. So do I have to connect before I lose my signal indoors? What iof have my Pop and don't have my phone.....does it save it as one massive session and then downloads when I connect to my phone?
THanks!
Dan W
New User
Unless you are doing a Challenge, you never need your phone to record sessions. The sensor does it autonomously. You will just need your phone when you want to sync the sessions.
racertempo
Semi-Pro
That is good, I never knew that. So I guess breaking up sets is as simple as just turning your Pop off and back on?
If you break up the sets into individual sessions you'll be able to see the data summary per set, but then when you list it as a match you'll have overlapping win or losses. So if you played a 3 setter that went the distance and used each set as its own session, you'd then have 3 matches to report instead of one.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
@racertempo, both @Dan W and @Robert F are correct. The internal flash memory of the POP can hold as much as 300 hours of playing time. If you want to break up sessions, turning it on and off starts a new session. That said, each one will be recorded as a separate match if you choose to break up by set.
Any answer? I'd settle for instructions on a way to access a plain text log/dataset in the android app that I can parse into my own dataset.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
I apologize for the delay. At the moment, there are no immediate plans to allow for downloading of the data POP collects.
KluddKalle
Semi-Pro
I've just entered the world of pop, will try it for the first time tomorrow. Have used a Zepp previously and wanted to try this one. How exactly would you say you find real use out of it?
Also, what's the point in following people? Just so you can challenge them? I like social features so in just curious of how this adds to the pop experience.
KluddKalle
Semi-Pro
@Babolat Official Just some simple suggestions for further development of the Pop:
Step tracking: Would be great if it tracked steps as well. I've been using a jawbone for a couple of years and that kind of data would add another useful dimension to a training session or match. Also it would open up for more kinds of challenges.
Training modes: One of the few things that the Zepp did great was to have a mode for serve training. The 3D visualisation was great to use when comparing two serves. So training modes for specific things like volleys, serves, slices etc would be great to see some sort of progress in specific areas.
Records: In your Play-app there's a records section. It's nice to be able to see my best strokes etc in different categories. Would love to have this in Pop.
Community challenges: specific challenges from Babolat that anyone in the community can try to beat and get the best score. Bragging rights or just badges as incentive. Or gear.
Analysis/tips: one thing that all these apps seem to be missing is coaching tips based on your data in a session. Maybe it's to much to ask for in this kind of product but this would be really cool and helpful. Like if I seem to need more top spin with my one handed backhand (which is true), the software could give me suggestions based on my arm/racquet movement. Don't think it's to advanced for something with 9 sensors inside (check out the Moov now).
Timeline: to be able to see all my shots In a session (or a selection of good ones and bad ones) on a timeline. That way I can identify which shot I made and even further try to eliminate mistakes/bad technique.
Web interface: would be great to be able to access my stats, maybe in even more detail, via a desktop interface.
That all for now I think. Looking forward to using this thing a lot this coming summer.
Step tracking: Would be great if it tracked steps as well. I've been using a jawbone for a couple of years and that kind of data would add another useful dimension to a training session or match. Also it would open up for more kinds of challenges.
Training modes: One of the few things that the Zepp did great was to have a mode for serve training. The 3D visualisation was great to use when comparing two serves. So training modes for specific things like volleys, serves, slices etc would be great to see some sort of progress in specific areas.
Records: In your Play-app there's a records section. It's nice to be able to see my best strokes etc in different categories. Would love to have this in Pop.
Community challenges: specific challenges from Babolat that anyone in the community can try to beat and get the best score. Bragging rights or just badges as incentive. Or gear.
Analysis/tips: one thing that all these apps seem to be missing is coaching tips based on your data in a session. Maybe it's to much to ask for in this kind of product but this would be really cool and helpful. Like if I seem to need more top spin with my one handed backhand (which is true), the software could give me suggestions based on my arm/racquet movement. Don't think it's to advanced for something with 9 sensors inside (check out the Moov now).
Timeline: to be able to see all my shots In a session (or a selection of good ones and bad ones) on a timeline. That way I can identify which shot I made and even further try to eliminate mistakes/bad technique.
Web interface: would be great to be able to access my stats, maybe in even more detail, via a desktop interface.
That all for now I think. Looking forward to using this thing a lot this coming summer.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
@Babolat Official Just some simple suggestions for further development of the Pop:
Step tracking: Would be great if it tracked steps as well. I've been using a jawbone for a couple of years and that kind of data would add another useful dimension to a training session or match. Also it would open up for more kinds of challenges.
Training modes: One of the few things that the Zepp did great was to have a mode for serve training. The 3D visualisation was great to use when comparing two serves. So training modes for specific things like volleys, serves, slices etc would be great to see some sort of progress in specific areas.
Records: In your Play-app there's a records section. It's nice to be able to see my best strokes etc in different categories. Would love to have this in Pop.
Community challenges: specific challenges from Babolat that anyone in the community can try to beat and get the best score. Bragging rights or just badges as incentive. Or gear.
Analysis/tips: one thing that all these apps seem to be missing is coaching tips based on your data in a session. Maybe it's to much to ask for in this kind of product but this would be really cool and helpful. Like if I seem to need more top spin with my one handed backhand (which is true), the software could give me suggestions based on my arm/racquet movement. Don't think it's to advanced for something with 9 sensors inside (check out the Moov now).
Timeline: to be able to see all my shots In a session (or a selection of good ones and bad ones) on a timeline. That way I can identify which shot I made and even further try to eliminate mistakes/bad technique.
Web interface: would be great to be able to access my stats, maybe in even more detail, via a desktop interface.
That all for now I think. Looking forward to using this thing a lot this coming summer.
Thanks for this feedback. our Connected Players Experience (CPX) team is constantly looking for ways to improve, so your feedback, in addition to the feedback offered in this thread, is invaluable. I will share with my colleagues, and I am sure they will integrate this feedback into coming updates.
KluddKalle
Semi-Pro
So I tried the Pop for the first time today and compared to Zepp it looks like it's going to be more fun. It was great to not even think about the sensor being there. Going to try it out some more but my first impression is that it actually can help me concentrate on improving a few thing when playing, mostly spin and style/fluidity. @Babolat Official - Would have been great to see the stats differentiate between first and second serves like the Play does.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
Interesting point. I'll share with the product team. Thanks!
KluddKalle
Semi-Pro
@Babolat Official I have another question. I tried the challenge feature and it says in the help section of the app that "your activity, total number of shots and total playing time will be updated". However I can't see that anything is updated? Once I was finished recording the challenges it said that I gained XX points to my activity score.
Will my challenges have to be answered/settled before this is updated or is the help section wrong?
Will my challenges have to be answered/settled before this is updated or is the help section wrong?
KluddKalle
Semi-Pro
@Babolat Official Nevermind. There was just a delay. All is good.
Anyone here that's using the Pop and want a follower for an occasional challenge here and there? I'm somewhere around a 4.5 player with a big serve and forehand and a one handed backhand.
Anyone here that's using the Pop and want a follower for an occasional challenge here and there? I'm somewhere around a 4.5 player with a big serve and forehand and a one handed backhand.
atp2015
Hall of Fame
@Babolat Official Nevermind. There was just a delay. All is good.
Anyone here that's using the Pop and want a follower for an occasional challenge here and there? I'm somewhere around a 4.5 player with a big serve and forehand and a one handed backhand.
@KluddKalle
I have been in and out of top 10 in Pop community - POP user-id: AP Kmr
KluddKalle
Semi-Pro
Consider yourself followed then!
In and out of the the top ten, I suspect you have to spend alot of time on court to get to that place in the rankings?
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
@Babolat Official Nevermind. There was just a delay. All is good.
Anyone here that's using the Pop and want a follower for an occasional challenge here and there? I'm somewhere around a 4.5 player with a big serve and forehand and a one handed backhand.
Glad it's been resolved. Cheers!
KluddKalle
Semi-Pro
This is a great suggestion. Especially being able to see what shot generated my best piq-score. My best piq-score in one session was almost 9000 and that really got me curious.
In my few sessions trying the pop out this is a thing that has stood out as a little annoying. I don't like it when software hides thing from me, I want as much info and control as possible.
I would also like to be able to break down the piq-score between forehand and backhand to know even more where to improve.
One final thing for the suggestion box @Babolat Official is to be able to see the piq-score of a challenge in detail, preferably shot by shot but at least the piq graph. I could see it while recording the challenge but once sent all I can see is my face and the total score.
But all in all, I'm really liking this little thing!
Just some more observations that seem odd.
Yesterday I practiced only my serve. Typically when I play my PIQ score is in the low to mid 4,000s. But just serving 1 bucket of balls my PIQ score was in the mid 5,000. Plus they were pretty crappy serves. So does the POP weigh serves too much in the PIQ score?
Today I had a match. I lost a close set 6-7 and my PIQ score was around 4100. I then lost the 2nd set on a USTA time limit 0-3. There my PIQ Score was just over 5,000. Felt my opponent made a few less mistakes in the second set. But I'm not sure I played a ton better than the first.
Yesterday I practiced only my serve. Typically when I play my PIQ score is in the low to mid 4,000s. But just serving 1 bucket of balls my PIQ score was in the mid 5,000. Plus they were pretty crappy serves. So does the POP weigh serves too much in the PIQ score?
Today I had a match. I lost a close set 6-7 and my PIQ score was around 4100. I then lost the 2nd set on a USTA time limit 0-3. There my PIQ Score was just over 5,000. Felt my opponent made a few less mistakes in the second set. But I'm not sure I played a ton better than the first.
KluddKalle
Semi-Pro
I noticed this to but didn't find it strange. If have a session playing only serves the score is likely to be higher since I have eliminated a lot of potentially weaker shots that would bring the average down.
I am planning to record a few sessions in which I only play a certain shot (forehand flat, forehand top spin, backhand slice and so on) to be able to compare these shots individually.
atp2015
Hall of Fame
I have improved my strokes (speed,spin and consistency) quite a bit with the help of POP and shadows strokes. POP has helped me to develop a feel for more speed and spin and build muscle memory without stepping on the court. I wish I had it years ago. But at the same time, POP could give a lot more info than it provides right now - hope they will update the software to do more than what it does today.
Babolat Official
Hall of Fame
Interesting you bring that up. It's possible that you swing faster on your serves than your other strokes, and thus, the PIQ score of your serves is naturally higher.
Well I'd assume most players have a faster serve than their ground strokes. The question is does pure speed or speed relative to the specific stroke determine PIQ score.
If it is just raw/pure speed, PIQ can be quite misleading. If I have a good slice, its speed might be much lower than my drive, yet it might be my better shot. But my crappy drive would get a better PIQ just based on speed.
I was hoping that serve speed would be based relative to a Pro's serve speed and not speed just compared to other strokes.
And if speed is so important, can my PIQ scores be way off if I just blast the ball regardless if it is is in or out? I can hit at 30 mph and have every ball land in, or I can swing for the stars and get my speed up to 65 but hit 1 in 10 in. How does PIQ rate those two situations?
