Backhand and forehand winners (1959-2008)

K

krosero

Legend
At the Former Players Forum, a handful of us have been counting winners and other stats in matches going back as far as 1959. Now that I've gathered all the data together, I wondered which players, in our sample of 77 men's matches, hit the most backhand and forehand winners.

Here are the backhand winners, arranged according to the highest average number of backhand winners per game. "Games missing" means that the DVD on which we watched the match is missing some games. In such cases, I've divided by the number of games we watched, not the total number of games played.

For a few matches I've used published stats, or TV stats, noted below.

The cutoff I set at the bottom is a rate of 1/3, or one backhand winner per every 3 games.

Backhands:
2453247557_188d91ddc1_o.jpg


And here are the forehands:

2453247707_fce70430cd_o.jpg


Note: Steffi Graf hit 22 forehand winners over the course of 27 games, in the 1988 Wimbledon final against Navratilova. That gives her a rate of .81, higher than any rate in either chart above.

This is the list of the matches we did:

Olmedo d. Laver 1959 Wimbledon final
Fraser d. Laver 1960 Wimbledon final
Laver d. Roche 1969 AO SF
Laver d. Ashe 1969 Wimbledon SF
Laver d. Newcombe 1969 Wimbledon final
Laver d. Roche 1969 USO final
Laver d. Rosewall 1970 Dunlop final
Newcombe d. Rosewall 1970 Wimbledon final
Smith d. Nastase 1972 Wimbledon final
Rosewall d. Smith 1974 Wimbledon SF
Connors d. Rosewall 1974 USO final
Newcombe d. Connors 1975 AO final
Ashe d. Connors 1975 Wimbledon final
Orantes d. Connors 1975 USO final
Connors d. Borg 1976 USO final
Borg d. Laver 1976 WITC semifinal
Borg d. Gerulaitis 1977 Wimbledon SF
Borg d. Connors 1977 Wimbledon final
Vilas d. Connors 1977 USO final
Borg d. Vilas 1978 Roland Garros final
Borg d. Pecci 1979 Roland Garros final
Borg d. Tanner 1979 Wimbledon final
McEnroe d. Gerulaitis 1979 USO final
Borg d. Gerulaitis 1980 Roland Garros final
McEnroe d. Connors 1980 Wimbledon SF
Borg d. McEnroe 1980 Wimbledon final
Borg d. Lendl 1981 Roland Garros final
Borg d. Connors 1981 Wimbledon SF
McEnroe d. Borg 1981 Wimbledon final
Borg d. Connors 1981 USO SF
Wilander d. Vilas 1982 Roland Garros final
Connors d. Lendl 1982 USO final
McEnroe d. Lendl 1983 Wimbledon SF
Connors d. Lendl 1983 USO final
Lendl d. McEnroe 1984 Roland Garros final
McEnroe d. Connors 1984 Wimbledon final
McEnroe d. Nystrom 1985 USO QF
Noah d. Vilas 1986 TC final
Lendl d. Mecir 1986 USO final
Cash d. Pernfors 1986 Davis Cup final
Cash d. Connors 1987 Wimbledon SF
Cash d. Lendl 1987 Wimbledon final
Lendl d. McEnroe 1987 USO QF
Wilander d. Mecir 1987 USO QF
Lendl d. Wilander 1987 USO final
Wilander d. Cash 1988 AO final
Wilander d. Agassi 1988 Roland Garros SF
Edberg d. Mecir 1988 Wimbledon SF
Lendl d. Agassi 1988 USO SF
Wilander d. Lendl 1988 USO final
Mancini d. Agassi 1989 Rome final
Becker d. Agassi 1989 Davis Cup SF
Becker d. Lendl 1989 USO final
Edberg d. Lendl 1989 TMC SF
Becker d. Wilander 1989 Davis Cup final
Becker d. Edberg 1989 Davis Cup final
Edberg d. Wilander 1990 AO SF
Lendl d. Edberg 1990 AO final
Gomez d. Agassi 1990 Roland Garros final
Sampras d. Agassi 1990 USO final
Connors d. Krickstein 1991 USO R16
Agassi d. Rafter 1995 AO, R16
Sampras d. Ivanisevic 1995 Wimbledon SF
Becker d. Agassi 1995 Wimbledon SF
Becker d. Sampras 1996 TMC round robin
Sampras d. Becker 1996 TMC final
Sampras d. Ivanisevic 1998 Wimbledon final
Sampras d. Agassi 1999 Wimbledon final
Safin d. Federer 2005 AO SF
Federer d. Roddick 2007 AO SF
Nadal d. Federer 2007 Roland Garros final
Gasquet d. Roddick 2007 Wimbledon QF
Federer d. Roddick 2007 USO QF
Kohlschreiber d. Roddick 2008 AO R32
Tsonga d. Nadal 2008 AO SF
Djokovic d. Federer 2008 AO SF
Djokovic d. Tsonga 2008 AO final
 
Edberg d. Mecir 1988 Wimbledon SF
Click to expand...

I just bought this match, so I can get more complete stats on it.

I also have several other matches that I did stats on that I didn't post yet, if you are still interested.

just realized that we didn't do any matches involving Jim Courier, I would think he had some high forehand winner totals in his prime (I'm watching the '93 W SF he played vs Edberg right now, there are some pretty amazing passes by him)

also are you planning to make any new threads on the matches you didn't post on previously? like these, I'm curious to see the complete match stats on them.

Agassi d. Rafter 1995 AO, R16
Sampras d. Agassi 1990 USO final
Becker d. Lendl 1989 USO final
Wilander d. Lendl 1988 USO final
Lendl d. Agassi 1988 USO SF
Lendl d. McEnroe 1987 USO QF
McEnroe d. Nystrom 1985 USO QF
Wilander d. Cash 1988 AO final
Lendl d. Wilander 1987 USO final
Connors d. Lendl 1983 USO final
Connors d. Lendl 1982 USO final
Wilander d. Vilas 1982 Roland Garros final
Borg d. Connors 1981 USO SF
Borg d. Lendl 1981 Roland Garros final
Borg d. Vilas 1978 Roland Garros final

also, I know this wasn't your intention, but it looks like you have stats on almost every W & USO final from 1975-1989. That's pretty cool, its nice to have that info available somewhere.
 
I think your missing 25+ winners altogether for Gasquet because he definitely had 80+ winners in the match vs Roddick.
 
BkK_b0y14 said:
I think your missing 25+ winners altogether for Gasquet because he definitely had 80+ winners in the match vs Roddick.
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His official count was 93 winners, and I got the same number when I counted them recently. I broke them down as 34 backhands, 21 forehands, 6 forehand volleys, 7 backhand volleys, 2 overheads, and 23 aces. That adds up to 93, so it doesn't like like he was credited with any service winners.

Last year in the news somewhere -- I didn't mark down where I saw the article, maybe at the ATP site -- it was reported that he had 34 backhand winners. I got the same number when I counted, so it checks out.
 
If you're playing a net rusher, passing shots are counted as winners, right? IMO, those types of winners are easier to hit, or at least to accumulate if the guy rushes the net a lot, e.g. Mecir versus Edberg.
 
krosero said:
At the Former Players Forum, a handful of us have been counting winners and other stats in matches going back as far as 1959. Now that I've gathered all the data together, I wondered which players, in our sample of 77 men's matches, hit the most backhand and forehand winners.

Here are the backhand winners, arranged according to the highest average number of backhand winners per game. "Games missing" means that the DVD on which we watched the match is missing some games. In such cases, I've divided by the number of games we watched, not the total number of games played.
Click to expand...

What a great post. Thanks for taking the time to catalog these statistics.
 
Moose Malloy said:
I just bought this match, so I can get more complete stats on it.

I also have several other matches that I did stats on that I didn't post yet, if you are still interested.
Click to expand...
Definitely, I'd esp. like to see your Becker-Lendl stats. I'm finishing up a list of all our data; the list was actually not as simple to compile as I thought. It's almost ready to post, but if you need more time to post full threads of your stats, all I need for the list is clean winners and aces.

Moose Malloy said:
also are you planning to make any new threads on the matches you didn't post on previously? like these, I'm curious to see the complete match stats on them.

Agassi d. Rafter 1995 AO, R16
Sampras d. Agassi 1990 USO final
Becker d. Lendl 1989 USO final
Wilander d. Lendl 1988 USO final
Lendl d. Agassi 1988 USO SF
Lendl d. McEnroe 1987 USO QF
McEnroe d. Nystrom 1985 USO QF
Wilander d. Cash 1988 AO final
Lendl d. Wilander 1987 USO final
Connors d. Lendl 1983 USO final
Connors d. Lendl 1982 USO final
Wilander d. Vilas 1982 Roland Garros final
Borg d. Connors 1981 USO SF
Borg d. Lendl 1981 Roland Garros final
Borg d. Vilas 1978 Roland Garros final

also, I know this wasn't your intention, but it looks like you have stats on almost every W & USO final from 1975-1989. That's pretty cool, its nice to have that info available somewhere.
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Still missing these W (76, 78, 82-83, 85-86, 88-89) and USO (78, 80-81, 84-85). If you have stats for '78 W I'd also like to see those.

For a lot those matches I haven't posted, I've been wondering whether I should go back and at least get the service percentages. It kind of depends on how much time I can find. If I can't find the time, I'll just post the winners, at least to explain a lot of the data in the big list.
 
35ft6 said:
If you're playing a net rusher, passing shots are counted as winners, right? IMO, those types of winners are easier to hit, or at least to accumulate if the guy rushes the net a lot, e.g. Mecir versus Edberg.
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Yes, any ball that bounces twice before the opponent gets to it, is counted here as a winner. These are all clean winners -- no contact with the racquet before the second bounce.

You're right that net-rushing by the opponent makes a difference in how many winners you hit.

Another factor making a difference is whether you come in to net yourself. If you're constantly rushing the net, you're just not giving yourself a chance to hit many ground stroke winners. That's why a stat like Pat Cash's backhand winners is so impressive, given how little he chose to stay back. But it helped that his opponent, Lendl, was serving and volleying on every point. All 16 of Cash's backhand winners were passing shots.
 
Have you watched Andreev vs Roddick for forehand or Federer vs Blake TMC for backhands? I'm almost positive the forehand one tops the chart should top the chart by a huge margin and the backhand one should come second.
 
iamke55 said:
Have you watched Andreev vs Roddick for forehand or Federer vs Blake TMC for backhands? I'm almost positive the forehand one tops the chart should top the chart by a huge margin and the backhand one should come second.
Click to expand...
It looks like you're right about Andreev, maybe Federer too.

Andreev hit 38 forehand winners when he beat Roddick ('07 FO), and there were 38 games, so that's a perfect rate of 1.0.

(See http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=aZi9Ji8k14vI&refer=home)

So Roddick continues to take a beating on these lists.

Federer-Blake at the '06 Masters Cup lasted 25 games. Federer hit 17 backhand winners according to this blog: http://servinguptennis.blogspot.com/2006/11/federer-masterful-in-shanghai.html , and that would put him 2nd on the backhand list.

With 17 backhand winners, more than off his forehand wing, Federer dispelled any notions that his backhand is vulnerable to attack, at least on any surface but crushed red brick.
Click to expand...

But he hit only 11 according to this: http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=152151

He has also strengthened his weaker backhand, whipping 11 winners past Blake in the final and missing just two.
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The word "past" makes me think that maybe 11 of the 17 backhand winners were passing shots. I also get that impression because he missed "just two," and that can't refer to all backhands but it might refer to passing attempts.

The NY Times credits him with 41 total winners, of which 11 were aces per the ATP.

Thanks for both of those, particularly the Andreev match. Our project has basically been to get stats for famous matches -- mostly semis and finals at Slams -- and until now we hadn't even talked about who might have the most winners on a single stroke. So the Andreev match in particular is one I might never have thought to look at.

I wonder what Andreev's total winners were. The Roland Garros site last year was severely undercounting winners.
 
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Wasn't the talk that Kohlchreiber hit 100+ (BH) winners in his match against Roddick at the Australian? The stat shows BH 30 and FH 27: That's 57 winners only.
 
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jmsx521 said:
Wasn't the talk that Kohlchreiber hit 100+ winners in his match against Roddick at the Australian? The stat shows BH 30 and FH 27: That's 57 winners only.
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Add his 32 aces, brings him up to 89. He hit 104 officially, so the missing 15 are made up of volleys, overheads and service winners.

I can't give you a precise breakdown of those because I have the incomplete ESPN coverage.
 
I thought the commentators were saying 100+ in backhand winners... or something of that extend, which was mesmerizing to me.... And I've been praising him for that in front of others, giving this misinformation.
 
jmsx521 said:
I thought the commentators were saying 100+ in backhand winners... or something of that extend, which was mesmerizing to me.... And I've been praising him for that in front of others, giving this misinformation.
Click to expand...
If you're interested in total number of backhands hit in a match, regardless of number of games played, one candidate is the Laver-Roche match listed above from '69, where Laver hit 14 backhands out of the 31 games watched. Two-thirds of the match is missing -- there were a total of 90 games.

Laver was on pace for hitting 99 winners and an additional 15 aces (and not including service winners yet). His rate of backhand winners would have put him at 42 at the end of the match.

Normally when so much of a match is missing, projecting like that is too much of a risk. All we have is from the second and third sets; the other sets might have gone very differently.

But in this case I think the estimate is realistic, because Laver's overall rate of winners in the 31-game sample is actually lower than the other matches we've done for him in the 1960-70 period.

Whether he kept up the pace, or his rate dropped, is impossible to say until the full match -- or a published stat -- turns up somewhere.
 
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just realized that we didn't do any matches involving Jim Courier, I would think he had some high forehand winner totals in his prime (I'm watching the '93 W SF he played vs Edberg right now, there are some pretty amazing passes by him)
Click to expand...

Was just taking stats on this one(though there was a problem with the dvd in the 4th set, so I need to get a replacement before having complete stats on this match)

But through 3 sets, Courier had some impressive numbers. He had 21 BH winners(& surprisingly only 9 FH winners). He also had 21 winners off the return & 27 passing shots(the 21 return winners were also passes)

It's almost ready to post, but if you need more time to post full threads of your stats,
Click to expand...

I'll try to post most of them this weekend. I have stats on the '78 W & USO finals, the '88 W final, the '84 AO final, the '91 FO final, in addition to the '91 AO final(but that match is missing one game)

For a lot those matches I haven't posted, I've been wondering whether I should go back and at least get the service percentages.
Click to expand...

I think the winner totals were the most important part of the project. 1st serve %'s are interesting, but they do take more time to compile.
 
Moose Malloy said:
Was just taking stats on this one(though there was a problem with the dvd in the 4th set, so I need to get a replacement before having complete stats on this match)

But through 3 sets, Courier had some impressive numbers. He had 21 BH winners(& surprisingly only 9 FH winners). He also had 21 winners off the return & 27 passing shots(the 21 return winners were also passes)
Click to expand...
When you get a replacement, I've subscribed to nearly all of the threads we've started on match stats and you could let me know the full stats that way (I'm saying, if you don't get a replacement for a long time).

For now I'd like to include these winners for a sample of 28 games (the first three sets), if you have the rest of Courier's winners (and aces) and Edberg's numbers as well.
 
For now I'd like to include these winners for a sample of 28 games (the first three sets), if you have the rest of Courier's winners (and aces) and Edberg's numbers as well
Click to expand...

Through 3 sets:

Courier had 39 non service winners: 21 BH, 9 FH, 7 V, 2 0
Edberg had 23: 15 FHV, 9 BHV, 1 F, 1B, 2 0

Courier had 4 aces, 0 service winners.
Edberg had 3 aces, 4 service winners.
 
Interesting stats. Thanx for sharing. :)

Maybe it wasn't among your sample matches, but Ferrero hit 28 FH winners against Agassi in 2003 USO semifinal. (38 games)
 
Courier had 39 non service winners: 21 BH, 9 FH, 7 V, 2 0
Edberg had 28: 15 FHV, 9 BHV, 1 F, 1B, 2 0

Courier had 4 aces, 0 service winners.
Edberg had 3 aces, 4 service winners.
Click to expand...

Completed stats for the 4th set:

Edberg had 3 non service winners: 2 BHV, 1 O
Courier had 9: 6 FH, 2 BH, 1 FHV

So for the match Courier had 48 non service winners: 23 BH, 15 FH, 8 V, 2 O

31 were passing shots, 24 were return winners.

Edberg had 31 non servive winners.
 
Moose Malloy said:
Completed stats for the 4th set:

Edberg had 3 non service winners: 2 BHV, 1 O
Courier had 9: 6 FH, 2 BH, 1 FHV

So for the match Courier had 48 non service winners: 23 BH, 15 FH, 8 V, 2 O

31 were passing shots, 24 were return winners.

Edberg had 31 non servive winners.
Click to expand...
So Courier has 23 backhands over 38 games, puts him at .61 on the chart, behind Agassi-Eltingh (and Federer-Blake).

Did you get their aces for the fourth set?
 
Very interestings stats here.

If you're counting forehand winners, there's a match you shouldn't miss: Federer def. Hewitt 6:0 7:6 6:0 in the Us Open 2004 Final.

Unfortunately my recording isn't complete, the end of the 8. game (from bp Hewitt) in the second set and whole 9. game is missing.

Anyway, I counted 24 fh winners (incl. fh volleys and fh. overhead) in those 24 games which gives Federer a rating of 1.0.
 
krosero or anyone else, Id like to see some stats for Djokovic's bankhand, when o fire. I like to compare his ability to take out the best and shoot winners from bh side. Is there any way you could contribute some stats on this, either AO semi or final or IW performance, or even Rogers Cup, any match he played good to excelent and I would like to see if his backhand is statisticaly as stellar as some of us think here ?

Is it possible for you to do somethig like that as a favour to me ?
 
allcourter2008 said:
Very interestings stats here.

If you're counting forehand winners, there's a match you shouldn't miss: Federer def. Hewitt 6:0 7:6 6:0 in the Us Open 2004 Final.

Unfortunately my recording isn't complete, the end of the 8. game (from bp Hewitt) in the second set and whole 9. game is missing.

Anyway, I counted 24 fh winners (incl. fh volleys and fh. overhead) in those 24 games which gives Federer a rating of 1.0.
Click to expand...
The charts above refer just to ground strokes. Do you have that breakdown? and for the backhand side?

No problem if you don't, I just ask because I've been wondering about the total winners in that match (apart from aces, which are already available).
 
These backhand and forehand winners, do they take into account passing shots ? If they don't you'll end up with misleading results.
 
daddy said:
krosero or anyone else, Id like to see some stats for Djokovic's bankhand, when o fire. I like to compare his ability to take out the best and shoot winners from bh side. Is there any way you could contribute some stats on this, either AO semi or final or IW performance, or even Rogers Cup, any match he played good to excelent and I would like to see if his backhand is statisticaly as stellar as some of us think here ?

Is it possible for you to do somethig like that as a favour to me ?
Click to expand...
We have stats for the AO semi and final (all the matches we did are in the big list above).

I haven't had time yet to do full threads on those matches, but this is the basic breakdown.

Djokovic vs. Federer (34 games) had 14 FH, 7 BH, 2 FHV, 1 BHV, 2 overheads. He had one passing shot off each wing, and no lob winners.

Djokovic vs. Tsonga (42 games) had 11 FH, 9 BH, 0 FHV, 5 BHV, 8 overheads. He had 3 forehand passes, 2 backhand passes, and one backhand lob winner.
 
AndrewD said:
These backhand and forehand winners, do they take into account passing shots ? If they don't you'll end up with misleading results.
Click to expand...
If I update the charts I'd like to add columns indicating how many of the winners were passes/lobs. I don't think we have the passing shots on all our matches, but we do at least on the ones I did.

Since I have no easy way of adding the passes to the charts, in the meantime anyone can either ask me directly for the figure on a given match, or you can look up the threads started under my username. I always reported the passes in those threads.

Just note that for many of the early matches I did, when counting passes/lobs I did not include service returns -- a definite oversight.

Edit: in those threads I always say whether passes include returns.
 
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krosero,

In these stats, is a tie-break is taken as a game ? just confirming

If so , going by that , soderling had 30 FH winners in 44 games in the match vs nadal in the French Open 2009 4R match , that is a rate of 0.6818
 
abmk said:
krosero,

In these stats, is a tie-break is taken as a game ? just confirming

If so , going by that , soderling had 30 FH winners in 44 games in the match vs nadal in the French Open 2009 4R match , that is a rate of 0.6818
Click to expand...
Yes I have the tiebreaks down as games. I've been collecting more stats -- and trying to find out how many of these winners were passes.

Right now Graf has the highest FH rate: 49 winners in 40 games, 1996 RG final (per a published count).
 
krosero said:
Yes I have the tiebreaks down as games. I've been collecting more stats -- and trying to find out how many of these winners were passes.

Right now Graf has the highest FH rate: 49 winners in 40 games, 1996 RG final (per a published count).
Click to expand...

ok

10 chars
 
1991 Australian Open Semifinal
Lendl hit 35 backhand winners vs. Edberg in 54 games (According to Channel 7 - still have the vcr tape)
0.648 would be near the top of the table!
 
krosero said:
That's great guys, keep the stats coming -- with sources please if you have them.
Click to expand...

Krosero,

One thing I think is very important with these stats is normalizing the stats for the era they are in.

It's unfortunate that we don't have stats for the normal percentage of winners for backhand and forehand in each individual year. If we had these stats we can truly see how powerful or weak a backhand and forehand is. We can then figure out how much better by percentage a player may hit winners over the average player in that year.

The reason I write that is perhaps a lower percentage of winners in one year may actually be more impressive considering the improvements in racket technology over the years.

It's interesting to me how Lendl's backhand shows up in a number of these threads. One think I think we should consider is that Edberg would probably give Lendl a greater chance to hit backhand winners since he is probably at the net quite often. And of course if Edberg is at the net he is most likely going to attack the weaker groundstrong, which in this case is the Lendl's forehand.

My point here is that perhaps Lendl's number of winners may have been the result of playing Edberg and not that Lendl's backhand was just "on" that day.

I would guess that if Lendl played at exactly the same level against a great baseliner like 1988 Mats Wilander that he wouldn't have hit so many backhand winners because Mats would be at the baseline more often.

Perhaps we should consider doing a ratio of backhand winners to unforced errors and forehand winners to unforced errors.
 
Does anyone have the data of how many winners Graf has in the 1988 French Open final where she won 6-0 6-0?
 
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pc1 said:
Krosero,

One thing I think is very important with these stats is normalizing the stats for the era they are in.

It's unfortunate that we don't have stats for the normal percentage of winners for backhand and forehand in each individual year. If we had these stats we can truly see how powerful or weak a backhand and forehand is. We can then figure out how much better by percentage a player may hit winners over the average player in that year.

The reason I write that is perhaps a lower percentage of winners in one year may actually be more impressive considering the improvements in racket technology over the years.

It's interesting to me how Lendl's backhand shows up in a number of these threads. One think I think we should consider is that Edberg would probably give Lendl a greater chance to hit backhand winners since he is probably at the net quite often. And of course if Edberg is at the net he is most likely going to attack the weaker groundstrong, which in this case is the Lendl's forehand.

My point here is that perhaps Lendl's number of winners may have been the result of playing Edberg and not that Lendl's backhand was just "on" that day.

I would guess that if Lendl played at exactly the same level against a great baseliner like 1988 Mats Wilander that he wouldn't have hit so many backhand winners because Mats would be at the baseline more often.

Perhaps we should consider doing a ratio of backhand winners to unforced errors and forehand winners to unforced errors.
Click to expand...
I think you're right, certainly a lot of factors come into it. How often your opponent is at net must be a huge factor; so I've got some data on how many of those winners were passes, but that data is hard to come by. Usually we have to count it ourselves.

Another factor is how many times the net-rusher approaches to a particular side.

Certainly surface is a huge factor, and technology.

And as you mentioned, a comparison against the errors is another important factor. But that one, with the published stats, is a problem because immediately you have to consider the method of counting unforced errors. Who was the statistician, how did s/he count, etc. That would get especially tricky comparing UE stats across eras; that's a huge problem. Sometimes I see comparisons where one players in one decade "had" X number of UE's, while another in this decade "had" another number. But there's nothing objective about UE's. Rather than saying, "he had" a certain number, it's probably more accurate to say, "he was given" a certain number.

At least winners are objective, when we count them ourselves; and when I include published stats I try to stay away from numbers that for one reason or another look inflated (ie, with lots of judgment calls in the winner column).

I think of these charts as giving a snapshot of what some famous players have done with winners; nothing more or less. From there I think it's possible to say this or that about the numbers, and to start debates. But I think it's going to be difficult to find anything conclusive in these numbers.
 
I would guess that if Lendl played at exactly the same level against a great baseliner like 1988 Mats Wilander that he wouldn't have hit so many backhand winners because Mats would be at the baseline more often.
Click to expand...

Lendl hit 30 bh winners vs Wilander in the '88 USO Final. Its listed as #2 on the backhand winner ratio chart on the 1st page of this thread. But Mats did come in 131 times that day.

My point here is that perhaps Lendl's number of winners may have been the result of playing Edberg and not that Lendl's backhand was just "on" that day.
Click to expand...

We've done other Edberg-Lendl matches before & Lendl didn't hit anywhere close to the amount of bh winners that he apparently hit in '91. So it so it seems like he probably was "on." its not like Edberg got passed like that all the time.

Perhaps we should consider doing a ratio of backhand winners to unforced errors and forehand winners to unforced errors.
Click to expand...

who's "we?" are you volunteering to do this stat?
 
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Moose Malloy said:
who's "we?" are you volunteering to do this stat?
Click to expand...

I've done stats in other areas for tennis in the past but when I write "we" I meant that stats people in generally may consider ratios if the information was available and it may not be or it may be too much work. But no, I'm no volunteering unless I have the information. :)
 
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