backhand down the line

M Pillai

Semi-Pro
Just watching Goffin vs Dimitrov match, and seeing those nice backhand down the line winners, and as many errors on backhand down the line attempts from Goffin, wanted to see what you folks think about this. Specifically I am talking about is a hard hit flat or topspin shot deep down the line backhand with a change of direction (from a cross court rally). I see that at pro level, the usage of this shot has increased a lot over the last few years. Do you use this a lot? In what situations? What is your thinking process on building the point with that.
 

M Pillai

Semi-Pro
Well... to underline this Dimitrov just finished the match in style with a backhand down the line winner.....
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I probably use it too frequently because I think I have more control than I actually do; when will I learn? :)

My thought process was that I wanted to be the first to break directionals; I wanted to "be aggressive". But I learned that is lower percentage tennis so I"m trying to reign that impulse in and give my opponent that honor.

Things I look for:

- Opponent no longer recovering to a neutral position but shading to the BH [assuming we're both righties]
- Opponent pulled out so wide that I don't even have to hit a great shot for it to be a reasonable chance at winning the point
- I want to change gears and get into a FH-FH rally

I don't usually try to hit winners with this shot; I want to try to force a weak response which I can then attack.
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
Just watching Goffin vs Dimitrov match, and seeing those nice backhand down the line winners, and as many errors on backhand down the line attempts from Goffin, wanted to see what you folks think about this. Specifically I am talking about is a hard hit flat or topspin shot deep down the line backhand with a change of direction (from a cross court rally). I see that at pro level, the usage of this shot has increased a lot over the last few years. Do you use this a lot? In what situations? What is your thinking process on building the point with that.
I over use that shot. In my head it helps keep an opponent from camping out in the bh corner to crush fhs
 

M Pillai

Semi-Pro
I want to change gears and get into a FH-FH rally

Thanks for the reply S&V. Like your point on trying to change to a FH-FH rally, especially if your backhand is less consistent than your opponents. But if the backhand is weak, then there is always a risk associated with going to somebody's forehand with a possibly weak shot.

Remember the theoretical disadvantages on this shot.

1. High risk, because of backhand to forehand
2. High risk, because of bad court positioning, essentially opening up the court for your opponent (that too to his forehand), for short angles, and forehand deep cross court
3. High risk, because of more net clearence needed
4. High risk, because of possibly ending up in a backhand to forehand rally

Obviously if you hit an outright winner like in those pro matches, none of that matters. Thats why I wanted to see the thinking process.
 
Last edited:

M Pillai

Semi-Pro
Yes. I think it can help avoid that.
I see your point. Varying it to make sure that the opponent move further to the middle (and dont park in the corner), so that you can keep it in their backhand on the backhand cross court rallys (and avoid them running around).
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
I see your point. Varying it to make sure that the opponent move further to the middle (and dont park in the corner), so that you can keep it in their backhand on the backhand cross court rallys (and avoid them running around).
Yes! Its good to mix it up.

Its more of a guess really but i think Stan used dtl to win the french against joker
 

M Pillai

Semi-Pro
Low risk if you hit it well and it's your strength.
I used to think that, I am pretty comfortable & successful with that shot, till I asked one of buddy to keep track of my ratios of "backhand down the line" success vs failure, on a couple of occations. Success means an obvious success directly as a result of that shot (like a winner or immediately taking control of the rally because of that). Failure means immediately loosing control of the rally because of that or an unforced error. Statistically my ratios were all wrong than what I thought. But no argument that those winners totally fool the opponent, and since you feel extremely confident right after them, it may actually be affecting positively on the match. (and I guess I might have been conveniently forgetting the failed one's since they were anyway high risk :) )
 

oble

Hall of Fame
I think that with the increase of the average top spin produced by the pros' groundstrokes off both wings, it becomes a bit safer to change the direction of a rally shot since you can hit with more net clearance and still have the ball dip in, not necessarily for an outright backhand down the line winner, but to get the opponent to move more for the next shot on initiator's terms and see what they can come up with as a reply.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
This is a very tough shot at the rec level because of lack of enough topspin. We all think we hit with a lot of topspin, even on up to 4.5 and 5.0. But nope, the pros generate unreal rpm's on those shots and this gives them a tremendous margin for error that we rec players just do not have. Even WTA players have a tough time with that shot, because the WTA is a power game these days.

As an aside, they hit the ball as hard as the men, but with much less spin and margin for error. The ATP, while its not that they don't hit hard, is a game of spin and creating high percentage patterns of play. It used to be that ATP was about pounding the ball and the WTA was about variety, placement, etc. The script has been flipped though. The ATP has no less power, but the ability to handle power has evolved to the point that variety has resurfaced. It's a fun time to watch men's tennis. As Rocky said, "its not about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward".
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
Great shot. Even if you float it dtl. If the opponent is out of position do you really think he's going to hit a Nadal-like running winner? If they do then, too good, they earned the point.

Focus on placement rather than power.
 

moonballs

Hall of Fame
It is a hard thing to pull off. I find it harder to hit the sweet spot than hitting cross court back. So I usually concentrate to hit a heavy ball back cross court. Of course if someone does a couple of inside out forehands in a row I will be obligated to go DTL.
 

Dragy

Legend
It is a hard thing to pull off. I find it harder to hit the sweet spot than hitting cross court back. So I usually concentrate to hit a heavy ball back cross court. Of course if someone does a couple of inside out forehands in a row I will be obligated to go DTL.
Problem is, if he's hitting couple I/O forehands in a row, he's likely pressing you more and more. So you'd better hit DTL as soon as he runs around and hits from the alley for the first time. Well, if he hits I/O without losing position due to your previous shot has been closer to mid hash, you might prefer deep CC...

I believe the shot is good when you don't consider it as screaming winner attempt or last chance couter-punch to save you from beeing deeply pressed into BH corner. When it's proper time to hit one, you may stay conservative. Not max pace, not linepainting, just hit it there and either approach the net, if inside the court, or recover to be able to deal with possible CC reply.

Disclaimer: "just hit" shall read as proper topspin drive.
 

SinjinCooper

Hall of Fame
If you never attempt a down the line backhand off of a well hit crosscourt shot until you hit 6.0, you won't be going too far wrong.
 

M Pillai

Semi-Pro
Aren't you are playing with fire and inviting more fire. The opponent maybe out of position, but by floating it DTL you yourself are going to endup out of position, and providing a good invitation (assuming same level of play on both sides). Most folks do good running to their forehand than backhand (even if it is not necessarily a Nadal forehand).

But I still see your point on using that against folks who are lazy on their feet.

Even if you float it dtl. If the opponent is out of position do you really think he's going to hit a Nadal-like running winner?
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
No. I strongly disagree that "most folks" can hit a running shot of a quality in a match and if they do it will be very rare indeed. In fact, you'll likely get a weak reply to take advantage of which is why the dtl is great to use.

Aren't you are playing with fire and inviting more fire. The opponent maybe out of position, but by floating it DTL you yourself are going to endup out of position, and providing a good invitation (assuming same level of play on both sides). Most folks do good running to their forehand than backhand (even if it is not necessarily a Nadal forehand).

But I still see your point on using that against folks who are lazy on their feet.
 

M Pillai

Semi-Pro
SinjinCooper, I guess you misunderstood the purpose of the topic. We are trying to see the "thinking process" and situations, when you hit such a shot, which is theoretically more riskier than cross court. Assumably everybody hits or attempts to hit those DTL backhands, and possibly might even be overusing it.

So with that clarification, please help us understand what is your thinking process on taking initiative on the change of direction on backhand.

(maybe I misunderstood your reply below as well... are you suggesting that no point in going DTL?)

If you never attempt a down the line backhand off of a well hit crosscourt shot until you hit 6.0, you won't be going too far wrong.
 
Last edited:

Nellie

Hall of Fame
If I think the opponent has a better backhand and will win most exchanges, I will go down the line on almost any shot when I am not defensive (too deep/wide). I will also change directions a lot if I think that the opponent is not in good shape or if I notice the opponent does not hit well on the run. And sometimes, I just want to dictate the shots and aim down the line when I feel like I am getting pushed around.

If I feel like I am winning most bh exchanges, I will continue to work crosscourt and try to go for more angles until the court opens up and I can go for a winner.

In most situations (opponent and I are pretty evenly matched), I will go down the line if I can hit the ball while I am within the court (so I am not too wide/too deep). Also, I prefer a higher ball that I can flatten out. I find it is harder for opponents to blast forehands crosscourt if my shot is lower, so I don't like to hit too loopy DTL. I am not going for a winner but trying not to give the opponent a meatball. So if the ball is low (or if I am out of balance) and I need to hit a weaker shot, I will tend to roll it crosscourt or hit a slice approach down the line.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Just watching Goffin vs Dimitrov match, and seeing those nice backhand down the line winners, and as many errors on backhand down the line attempts from Goffin, wanted to see what you folks think about this. Specifically I am talking about is a hard hit flat or topspin shot deep down the line backhand with a change of direction (from a cross court rally). I see that at pro level, the usage of this shot has increased a lot over the last few years. Do you use this a lot? In what situations? What is your thinking process on building the point with that.
i use it, but it's probably my worst shot, probably because it's harder and it's my least practiced...
ie.
* going inside out fh goes to a weakness (eg. right bh)
* going inside out bh, goes to a strength (if i don't hit it wide enough, it's gonna be a problem for me)

main time i use it, is when i've been winning/neutralizing the bh rallies and they start cheating to the bh corner to gain an advantage in the bh-to-bh rally (and i was unable to run around my bh)... so rare :p

that said, in practice, i try to play deuce side in dubs to get more opportunities to practice inside out bh returns
 

donquijote

G.O.A.T.
Hit hard cross-court BH until the ball comes back slower and maybe a bit shorter. Then you can have the opponent guessing and finish it DTL. Next time you can hit the easier cross-court winner if he moves to cover BHDTL. This is the reward of making good shots.
 

xFullCourtTenniSx

Hall of Fame
2 rules:
1) Never hit this shot if you're required to both hit the best shot you can AND get it in.
2) Aim for a large target (give yourself plenty of room to miss relative to the shot you're hitting).

I generally either go at half speed and use height, depth, and topspin to push them back, or go with a slice and keep the bounce low, or take it early and place it down the line at about 2/3 or 3/4th speed. I only hit it if it's slow and short.

Even the slow ones can be winners if you place them well and they don't expect it simply because you've hit the last 100 backhands deep crosscourt.

If you hit the shot indiscriminately, you'll make a ton of errors.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Just watching Goffin vs Dimitrov match, and seeing those nice backhand down the line winners, and as many errors on backhand down the line attempts from Goffin, wanted to see what you folks think about this. Specifically I am talking about is a hard hit flat or topspin shot deep down the line backhand with a change of direction (from a cross court rally). I see that at pro level, the usage of this shot has increased a lot over the last few years. Do you use this a lot? In what situations? What is your thinking process on building the point with that.

I see that the main purpose of the shot is to counter your opponent running around the backhand and hitting inside-out to your backhand. Or a lefty hitting crosscourt topspin forehands angled to your backhand. I will use it in the situations that I mentioned. It may also give you a little more flexibility in hitting passing shots too.

In the Wawrinka - Tsonga match, Tsonga hit a one-handed topspin backhand passing shot DTL. He actually has a nice looking OHBH Topspin!
 

moonballs

Hall of Fame
Problem is, if he's hitting couple I/O forehands in a row, he's likely pressing you more and more. So you'd better hit DTL as soon as he runs around and hits from the alley for the first time. Well, if he hits I/O without losing position due to your previous shot has been closer to mid hash, you might prefer deep CC...

I believe the shot is good when you don't consider it as screaming winner attempt or last chance couter-punch to save you from beeing deeply pressed into BH corner. When it's proper time to hit one, you may stay conservative. Not max pace, not linepainting, just hit it there and either approach the net, if inside the court, or recover to be able to deal with possible CC reply.

Disclaimer: "just hit" shall read as proper topspin drive.
i know the feeling of getting pinned to the back hand corner. But I figured the least worst option is going cc until better opportunity comes. People who like to run around the backhand are usually better movers for the level. Covering the dtl is running forward so is not hard. Otoh backhand to cc make them reverse the direction of the recovery and to decide whether to run around again. At my level too many choices may not be a good thing.
 

Dragy

Legend
i know the feeling of getting pinned to the back hand corner. But I figured the least worst option is going cc until better opportunity comes. People who like to run around the backhand are usually better movers for the level. Covering the dtl is running forward so is not hard. Otoh backhand to cc make them reverse the direction of the recovery and to decide whether to run around again. At my level too many choices may not be a good thing.
I agree as long as you can at least hang in that CC rally, even if slightly below neutral. There's definitely a chance your opponent gets impatient and goes low percentage if you give him several defensive backhands, even though not perfectly deep and spinny. All is matter of degrees, matchups, strengths and weaknesses. I wasn't claiming going DTL on the first hit, but possibly not always expecting good DTL option further on as point develops. I'd say an inside-in FH opportunity may be at least same probability in such a pattern.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I'll do it on any short ball. As long as I'm in no man's land I can execute a 2HBH DTL fairly easily. If it's deep, keep it CC. If they run around their BH then I often just bunt a drop shot DTL as it's a long way to travel.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
"As for strategy, Borg kept the game awfully simple. When asked, he had a standard but accurate response: 'Most of the time, I hit CC. Every once in a while, down the middle." - Vic Braden, *Mental Tennis*
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
But he lost! Which makes lefty forehand superior! Every rec player should learn one.

Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes, i.e., evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony. When compared to other types of evidence, anecdotal evidence is generally regarded as limited in value due to a number of potential weaknesses, but may be considered within the scope of scientific method as some anecdotal evidence can be both empirical and verifiable, e.g. in the use of case studies in medicine. Other anecdotal evidence, however, does not qualify as scientific evidence, because its nature prevents it from being investigated by the scientific method.

Where only one or a few anecdotes are presented, there is a larger chance that they may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases.[1][2] Similarly, psychologists have found that due to cognitive bias people are more likely to remember notable or unusual examples rather than typical examples.[3] Thus, even when accurate, anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a typical experience. Accurate determination of whether an anecdote is "typical" requires statistical evidence.[4] Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy and is sometimes referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc.) which places undue weight on experiences of close peers which may not be typical. Compare with hasty generalization.

-- Wikipedia
 

M Pillai

Semi-Pro
Well.... if Federer does not use backhand DTL against Nadal today, then we all know how the rally will go. Obviously extended rallys with Nadal Forehand to Federer backhand is not a good thing for Federer.
 

athiker

Hall of Fame
I try to be pretty disciplined re: playing directionals style tennis therefore for I try to limit going down the line with my one handed backhand to when my opponent has hit a weak ball or a short ball. On a short ball I have to decide...down the line or sharp angle. I avoid the shot when returning a deep ball or a well hit ball with pace.

Biggest risks I see are spraying it wide (minimized if the incoming shot is on the weaker side) or hitting the tape b/c of higher part of net (minimize by attempting to put more air under the ball plus more topspin). So I'm not really trying to slam a flat backhand winner like a pro but hitting a ball that if my opponent is able to get to it will likely not be a great shot back to me just b/c of location, not screaming pace. I often will follow it to the net and sometimes I will slice it to mix it up or just depending on my opponent.

Other time I might go down the line is on a wide ball that my opponent has approached the net behind...depending on his court position and how its been going. I might lob cross court or try to hit a dipper cross court too...just depends on whats been working (or not working!) Those I would tend to put more pace on and take my chances. I might take a chance down the line on a wide second serve from the ad side as well.
 

M Pillai

Semi-Pro
It was fun to watch both Federer and Nadal trying a lot of back hand down the liners to get to the other guys backhand, in the recent AO final. But it is also noticeable that most of the convincing bakhand winners came of backhand cross courts in that match.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
personally i don't own this shot..
typically if i go dtl, it's high/heavy spin, as a change of pace (or to change the cc - ie. to lefty bh)
if i go offensively dtl, it's because i get a short ball (ie. both feet in the baseline), and the opponent is overplaying my cc bh... so it'll be like a 1 in 4, that i go dtl
 
Top