Bad Calls in League Play

[cincyMike]

I have been playing interclub for 2 seasons now and in that time I have come across a couple of guys who are notorious for making things difficult. The typical dilemma seems to be that they call anything close (on the line) out, but expect you to give them the close calls on their shots. I am a very non confrontational player, I am the guy who tells you good shot and is typically very generous on the line/close calls. Some guys just don't seem to reciprocate that good sportsmanship and will do anything they can to get an advantage in a match it seems like.

Arguing with someone about line calls in interclub typically ruins my weekend, so I usually just let it go and start trying to be a little less aggressive with the depth and shots down the lines to make sure that it doesn't become an issue. This past weekend I probably gave a guy about 5 calls which I truly believe were out just to avoid an incident. I still won the match but it was much closer than it should have been. The other side of it was that I became so generous that I would play serves that were borderline and if I hit a good return he would stop play and say that the serve was out... it was like a situation where I couldn't win with the calls. I don't claim to be an expert and get all the calls right, but in general I am as fair of a player as you will ever play on the court.

How do you guys respond to someone who does this kind of thing, or who tries to intimidate you on the court into making calls in their favor and so forth in a manner that won't turn into some heated argument where it becomes uncomfortable and no longer is fun to play?

 

[schmke]

Call them like you see them. If you see it out, call it out. If you incorrectly call a ball out that was in, concede the point.

If challenged, stick to your guns as by doing the above, you've set precedent that you will call the lines fair and fess up if a mistake is made.

Regarding his calling his first serve out, that is not allowed per the rules/code. Get a copy to have with you if required to settle any disagreements, but that is your call and if he stops play when you continue play without having called his first serve out, it is your point. He doesn't get two bites at the apple by choosing to consider his serve out if you hit a good return.

 

[NumbersGuy]

It all depends on what your objective is. If you want to win and don't like being a doormat, you do one thing. If you don't really care who wins or about being a doormat and are just out for s**ts and giggles, you do another. I've seen both approaches and both types of players and they can work just fine.

 

[lew750]

Most people think they are normal and are like other people, so a cheater expects others to cheat. Someone like you described will almost certainly question any close call on your side of the net.

There is no good way to deal with guys like this. I know guys who make "make up" calls on close balls but I try to call the lines as I see them: one cheater on the court is enough. A guy on my team once suggested line judges and it almost became a team brawl. If it gets to that point, report him to league officials. You probably won't be the first.

As far as rules violations (him calling his first serve out), know the rules, have a copy in your bag, and don't give an inch. I learned this as captain of a MIXED doubles team.

 

[blakesq]

if you are keeping score, then play by the rules. call the balls on your side of the court, and let your opponent call the balls on his side of the court. If he wants to challenge your calls, don't fall into that game. Simply state, "I saw it out", and repeat if he continues to challenge you.

 

[tennixpl]

play the game, you have calls you make and he has calls he makes. know the rules and stick to em.

some people aren't only blatant cheaters but also bullies who will try to impose their will on you.

now if you want to see some real bad line calls watch juniors. that actually becomes funny in a way.

 

[Mr.Lob]

You can't do anything about how your opponent makes calls. If obvious opponent is blatantly cheating, I'd simply look opponent in the eyes and say"that ball was in", and leave it at that without arguing. Make your calls how you see them. If opponent challenges your call, look them in the eyes and calmly state, " rules say you make your calls on your side if the net, I do the same." No need to get into a discussion about it, fairly simple concept.

 

[ednegroni]

If it were to happen to me in a match (USTA), I'd call a person from each team to officiate those calls. I wouldn't even argue because people won't ever change their mind about the bad call (on purpose) they just made.

 

[newpball]

IThis past weekend I probably gave a guy about 5 calls which I truly believe were out just to avoid an incident.

Looks like the one who is making bad calls is you.

Seriously, what in the world are you doing not calling balls out that you believe were out?

 

[Turbo-87]

Call them like you see them as others have said. I can understand being non-confrontational but at some point you just have to make it known that you appreciate fair play. If you make calls on your side of the net appropriately it is hard for him to argue. The last thing you want to do is start hooking because you will certainly get confrontation then. Call em how you see em and if you question his calls, a simple "Are you sure?" is usually enough to put someone on notice unless they are severely obtuse.

 

[Cindysphinx]

It's easy.

1. Give benefit of the doubt.

2. If it is out and you are 100% sure it was out, call it out with gusto. Use the voice of God when you make that call. No hesitation, no hedging words, no guilty looks, no asking your partner.

3. If asked or questioned, use your voice of God voice again and say the ball was out. Walk to your position and prepare for the next point.

Done and done.

 

[North]

Call honestly and expect the same from your opponent. There doesn't have to be a confrontation. Let your opponent stamp and rage. If you think of him as an overgrown 2 year old having a tantrum (which is really what you are dealing with) you can just smile, wait for him to scream himself out, and stick to your guns. If he feels like he is raving away at a dispassionate brick wall who calmly plays by the rules, he will probably wind up (a) storming off the court refusing to continue, (b) escalate his behavior so it is so bad you can submit a well-supported complaint to the League about him, or (c) possibly change his behavior because someone is finally not letting him get away with his childish nonsense. At least that has been my experience. At NO time should you feel upset or show anything but mature calm.

 

[cincyMike]

Looks like the one who is making bad calls is you.

Seriously, what in the world are you doing not calling balls out that you believe were out?

You are absolutely right. I never looked at it that way. Its apparent I need to be more firm and confident in my calls. I had an incident escalate last season with a guy over calls and I think have made the assumption that it's going to come to that again every time this sort of thing starts happening. I am definitely being a pushover on the court.

I think most of you have stated it best and I'm gonna take the advice, if its out call it out and stick to my guns.

 

[TimothyO]

I've encountered the same sort of player and have two solutions one of which came from another TT member. But first you need to be certain that the opponent is cheating. Everyone makes mistakes and it can be impossible to see accurately what happens on the other side of the net. Be generous because even dedicated line judges make errors and they're not trying to play while calling lines! But if it becomes clear the guy is cheating then there are really only two options.

1. If you're determined to play and take things like divisional rank seriously then do what another TT member once suggested. On your opponent's first shot of the next point call it out no matter where it lands. Tell him you're happy to call the lines just like he is all day if needed. Stand your ground and be prepared for an ugly match.

2. If you realize that rec play is utterly meaningless since it truly is meaningless then simply congratulate your opponent on his victory, retire, and go enjoy your day. If you feel the need then let the league know why you retired and let other players know too. In any case don't let it get to you. In most cases retirements don't count towards level advancement so it simply doesn't matter.

I took this approach (#2) with an egregious cheater and later learned that others in the division had the same experience. The further he fell behind the worse his calls became. Everyone makes mistakes but I knew he decided to simply cheat his way back into the match when he called a drop shot wide while I was at net standing virtually on the line and saw the impact point well inside the line. He was an older, imobile player and simply called shots out when he couldn't reach them. Everyone noticed the same pattern with him: he's behind, can't reach a shot, he calls it out no matter what. It was so obvious I wasn't even mad and instead found his behavior sad.

 

[sureshs]

2. If it is out and you are 100% sure it was out, call it out with gusto. Use the voice of God when you make that call. No hesitation, no hedging words, no guilty looks, no asking your partner.

If the ball is close and you did that, I would not have any trust in you.

A close ball requires an acknowledgment that it was close, regardless of whether you are 100% sure it is out.

A person who does not communicate this and pretends it is similar to a ball which is a foot wide is intentionally hiding something.

Considering that even chair umpires will indicate to a pro that the ball was slightly out (if necessary with a pinch of their fingers and a smile) shows that it is human nature to distinguish between close and far out balls. Sometimes pros will do that for their opponents. Like yesterday Nadal asked Dog on the first serve of matchpoint what he thought, while waiting for Hawk Eye (Nadal was right).

A club level nobody player who pretends to have a sense of justice more than chair umpires or pros is a fraud, plain and simple.

 

[blakesq]

"A close ball requires an acknowledgment that it was close, regardless of whether you are 100% sure it is out."

The above sentence is pure BS. there is no such requirement. Suresh may like or want such an acknowledgement, but it is in no way required.

If the ball is close and you did that, I would not have any trust in you.

A close ball requires an acknowledgment that it was close, regardless of whether you are 100% sure it is out.

A person who does not communicate this and pretends it is similar to a ball which is a foot wide is intentionally hiding something.

Considering that even chair umpires will indicate to a pro that the ball was slightly out (if necessary with a pinch of their fingers and a smile) shows that it is human nature to distinguish between close and far out balls. Sometimes pros will do that for their opponents. Like yesterday Nadal asked Dog on the first serve of matchpoint what he thought, while waiting for Hawk Eye (Nadal was right).

A club level nobody player who pretends to have a sense of justice more than chair umpires or pros is a fraud, plain and simple.

 

[sovertennis]

"A close ball requires an acknowledgment that it was close, regardless of whether you are 100% sure it is out."

The above sentence is pure BS. there is no such requirement. Suresh may like or want such an acknowledgement, but it is in no way required.

I found Suresh's post curious as well. He would know that his shot was close to the line, so why does he "require" that his opponent confirm that for him as the call is being made?

Players who make "out" calls emphatically amuse and sometimes annoy me. Just a clear hand signal is enough, IMO, then let's move on to the next point.

I never retaliate by making bad calls against my opponent if I feel he's hooking me, because then I'm cheating. If it's in a league match, I just try to keep calm and carry on until the end; if it's in an informal match, I won't play with the guy again. I don't need that sort of anxiety.

 

[newpball]

It's easy.

1. Give benefit of the doubt.

2. If it is out and you are 100% sure it was out, call it out with gusto. Use the voice of God when you make that call. No hesitation, no hedging words, no guilty looks, no asking your partner.

3. If asked or questioned, use your voice of God voice again and say the ball was out. Walk to your position and prepare for the next point.

^ This!

 

[user92626]

Hi All, I have this dilemma. Maybe some of you can give an input.

So far I have been experiencing decent line calls by people I play with in the league. It's either because of the type of people I play with or it's just reciprocated since (I feel) I'm quite accurate and leaning on the generous side also, or maybe I don't just care too much about their calls to worry about.

However I do notice a certain pattern that I do that is my disadvantage. I'm slow with calling "out". The reason is I'm too focused on other things (like hitting on the rise, watching opponent, selecting next placement, etc.) and getting the ball back quite successfully too, so by the time my mind is made up the ball is already being hit by opponent and I feel bad, unethical if I call and stop!!!

 

[newpball]

I'm slow with calling "out". The reason is I'm too focused on other things (like hitting on the rise, watching opponent, selecting next placement, etc.) and getting the ball back quite successfully too, so by the time my mind is made up the ball is already being hit by opponent and I feel bad, unethical if I call and stop!!!

Calling a ball out after the opponent hits it back is way too late. You got yourself a problem that you need to fix.

 

[user92626]

If the ball is close and you did that, I would not have any trust in you.

A close ball requires an acknowledgment that it was close, regardless of whether you are 100% sure it is out.

A person who does not communicate this and pretends it is similar to a ball which is a foot wide is intentionally hiding something.

Considering that even chair umpires will indicate to a pro that the ball was slightly out (if necessary with a pinch of their fingers and a smile) shows that it is human nature to distinguish between close and far out balls. Sometimes pros will do that for their opponents. Like yesterday Nadal asked Dog on the first serve of matchpoint what he thought, while waiting for Hawk Eye (Nadal was right).

A club level nobody player who pretends to have a sense of justice more than chair umpires or pros is a fraud, plain and simple.

This is BS, Suresh. You can't compare the pro stuff to the club stuff. Chair umpires and players can humor each other, which is not required at all, because they can afford to with the help of Hawkeyes. It's also good for viewers.

On other hand, club stuff doesn't have Hawkeyes or a final decision mechanism. This kind of humoring (giving subjective, pointless estimation) may introduce more head ache than it's worth.

 

[user92626]

Calling a ball out after the opponent hits it back is way too late. You got yourself a problem that you need to fix.

I know, but how it gets there is very easy as well. You're tired. Your shot was hit on the rise so it was very fast. Your hand signal is slower. Opponent can't see you fast enough.

Maybe the answer is just what Cindy prescribes. Work on body language and assertiveness, little to do with lateness or facts on the ground.

 

[sureshs]

"A close ball requires an acknowledgment that it was close, regardless of whether you are 100% sure it is out."

The above sentence is pure BS. there is no such requirement. Suresh may like or want such an acknowledgement, but it is in no way required.

Obviously there is no such requirement, just like there is no requirement for basic decency

 

[sureshs]

I like Cindy's idea though. Call the ball out in a loud authoritative voice and convince yourself that you were 100% sure when you were not, and then remember to post here the next day on how balls should be called out only if you are 100% sure.

 

[tennis tom]

If the ball is close and you did that, I would not have any trust in you.

WHY? Anyone who's played tennis knows some balls are close, Vision is a huge part of the game, some people have better vision then others. Let's play tennis and not a lot of hand-holding and needless talk.

A close ball requires an acknowledgment that it was close, regardless of whether you are 100% sure it is out.

WHY? Everyone in attendance knows it was close except for the blind, stupid, alcoholic or distrusting paranoids who think any close call against them must be cheating.

A person who does not communicate this and pretends it is similar to a ball which is a foot wide is intentionally hiding something.

WHAT? Linespersons at tournaments don't don't say "close", they only say "OUT!".

Considering that even chair umpires will indicate to a pro that the ball was slightly out (if necessary with a pinch of their fingers and a smile) shows that it is human nature to distinguish between close and far out balls. Sometimes pros will do that for their opponents. Like yesterday Nadal asked Dog on the first serve of matchpoint what he thought, while waiting for Hawk Eye (Nadal was right).

A club level nobody player who pretends to have a sense of justice more than chair umpires or pros is a fraud, plain and simple.

Maybe at your club.

Time for a vision exam Suresh.

................................

 

[newpball]

Maybe the answer is just what Cindy prescribes. Work on body language and assertiveness, little to do with lateness or facts on the ground.

You are clearly not listening.

It has everything to do with lateness, calling a ball out after the opponent has already hit the ball back is ludicrous.

 

[user92626]

new,

Don't tell me you never run into the situation that after you hit a shot, look up and only to find your opponent signaling out on your previous shot.

 

[sovertennis]

new,

Don't tell me you never run into the situation that after you hit a shot, look up and only to find your opponent signaling out on your previous shot.

Very, very rarely. I have to side with new and others here: you can't wait until the ball is being played by your opponent to call his previous shot out. The call has to be fast and sure.

 

[beernutz]

new,

Don't tell me you never run into the situation that after you hit a shot, look up and only to find your opponent signaling out on your previous shot.

I'm not new (or newpball) but I have played tennis for over 40 years and I have never waited that long to make a call. Whenever I haven't been sure enough to call a ball immediately out then I let play continue.

 

[user92626]

Now I'm surprised that it seems to happen not that rare for me, not as rare as you guys suggest.

Very strange indeed.

I see it happens most often with shots that i scramble behind the baseline, hit on the rise which the ball looks like it has bounced a few inches out. I love a good point so I hate to make the call, especially if I already got it back cleanly. And then a few seconds later I kinda regret.

Another way to explain my "slowness" is that I am not playing and waiting for opponents to make errors. That's always secondary. I'm not looking very hard for that. So my indecisiveness only gets worse, ie slower. You know that no two close calls have the same certainty/decisiveness, right?