Bad Line Calls

[kl2963]

I was playing in a local league (mixed team) and our opponents made horrible calls and his partner did not correct him. I was serving for the match in the second set and he called my serve our after dumping his return in the net. Almost the same thing on the second serve, except he hit it wide. When I asked the the mark he pointed to a spot about 2 feet away. This went on multiple times and we ended up dropping the 2nd set mainly because I lost my cool. Overall, I would say there were over 15 obvious bad calls. Most of the calls came after they hit a ball out or into the net. We loss in 3 sets and after the match their team captain apologized for the bad calls.

What do you do in this situation? How do you handle players like this?

 

[Ft.S]

Never happened to me this badly; bad calls happen every match, or I should say calls that not all players agree. If there were that many bad calls, before the 3rd set had started I would have called in both teams' captains and asked for their supervision, and I would also gently and respectfully have had a open conversation with the player's partner.

 

[mikeler]

Most people don't like confrontation, myself included. So the bad line callers expect you not to push back too hard. I played a notorious bad line caller in a league match a few years ago for the first time. Early in our match, there were a few balls I hit out that were close (but were out) and as soon as he called them out, I rushed the net and made a big "to do" asking "Are you sure?", "Where's the mark?" etc. It was gamesmanship on my part, but he didn't give me a bad call the whole match because he knew I was going to make a scene if he did.

 

[WisconsinPlayer]

Ask them to make their calls before or right after they hit the ball, then if it continues get an official or supervisor

 

[tennis tom]

I was serving for the match in the second set and he called my serve our after dumping his return in the net.

Ask them if their ball had gone over the net, if they'd still called it out? Cheat them back, they will stop cheating because they will think you're better at it then they are.

 

[Mr.Lob]

There's a difference between "bad line calls" and cheating. Everyone will make bad, or incorrect, calls from time to time. If a lot of bad line calls, offer him a discount coupon to a local optometrist at the next change over. If cheating call him on it. If they hit a ball long, or into the net, and then make a call, say, " too bad, rules say you need to make that call immediately. " and take the point.

 

[kl2963]

I am a non confrontational player. The most I will do is ask for the ball mark. This was a very unfortunate situation that took the fun out of tennis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 23235]

My thoughts on line calls:
I presume if i hit the line, it will be called out (pleasantly surprised when it's not) - so if it hits the line and it's called out, it's my fault
Most folks haven't read the literature of how the eyes can be deceived when a ball bounces. so knowing this, i give folks benefit of the doubt, but if you don't know, you just report what you see (ie. ball bounces on the line, but all you "see" is the ball bouncing off the ground 2-4in later due to compression/skidding).
I know some folks that quit USTA all together because of the BS cheating and drama in leagues.
Even though it bothers me from time to time, i try to remember that A) when i hit the line it was an accident B) I'm just playing tennis for the exercise and joy of getting good at something (not for collecting wins) C) most matches are not determined by a handful of bad calls... when i look back, i "lost" the match on shots that were well within my control - including the ones that hit the line.

Sometimes i wish tennis were as pure/cut and dry as other sports: ping pong, golf, bjj, etc,... clear rules, not much room for interpretation.

 

[NTRPolice]

In doubles I always ask the persons partner. If they do not correct the call(s) I will just stop play and ask for the captains.

I would then say in front of all players and captains that the line calls are so obviously bad that we cant continue until we get people who will call lines on their side of the court. By saying "their side of the court" you're basically implying that you're calling the lines fairly while they are not.

Then I would start beaning both of them any chance that I get. Why the partner? Because if that persons partner wont correct a call on a ball that's like 6 inches inside the court then it's assumed they are "in on it" too.

(Revenge cheating is never a good policy. If spectators or umpires see the revenge cheating they will think you're the instigator. Remember, ref's dont always see the first foul, but once "drama" is made they will definitely see the second. You.)

Thankfully, you dont get this kinda stuff in the higher levels. I've only seen children, or adults below 4.0 do this kinda stuff. At 4.0+ they start calling balls you see on the line as out and that's not so easy to "fix".

 

[tennis tom]

(Revenge cheating is never a good policy. If spectators or umpires see the revenge cheating they will think you're the instigator.

Of course you don't want witnesses when you're evening out the playing field. There aren't that many people watching amateur tennis matches, much less paying close attention while they're discussing the fine nuances of merlots and chardonays. If it's a "big" league match and everyone else has finished their matches and watching yours then there's witnesses. You do your revenge cheating when it's just you guys. Your baseline is the best one to cheat on since they can't see it well. But, if you want to really make your point that you're on to them and can cheat as well of better then them, you wait for one down a sideline where you both have the same view and look them right in the eye as you make an egregiously bad call by six inches or a foot--if you want to add some extra emphasis to it you can say, "Two can play at this cheating game!"

 

[Nostradamus]

how long will it be when most of the clubs will have Play sight like tech to call all lines ? I know at present it is just too expensive to install and too expensive to have it ON at all times. and they are not 100 % accurate....lol

 

[OnTheLine]

What amuses me is that there are entire teams that are known throughout the section as blatant cheats at line calls. Every team every level out of one particular club. I am always thrilled when I am not in the lineup for those matches.
After a particularly flagrant call early in the match, I will ask the person who called it if they know that lines are considered good and ask if they know which side of the line is considered out .... it will sometimes temper the bad calls for a game or two. Then I will follow up later with, I thought we had this discussion earlier about which side of the line is considered out.
I tell myself I will retaliate with a bad call on my side, but I never do it.
I feel guilty enough about the inadvertent bad calls that I make, often in their favor, to be able to do it. I don't want the reputation of being "that player".

 

[NTRPolice]

Of course you don't want witnesses when you're evening out the playing field. There aren't that many people watching amateur tennis matches, much less paying close attention while they're discussing the fine nuances of merlots and chardonays. If it's a "big" league match and everyone else has finished their matches and watching yours then there's witnesses. You do your revenge cheating when it's just you guys. Your baseline is the best one to cheat on since they can't see it well. But, if you want to really make your point that you're on to them and can cheat as well of better then them, you wait for one down a sideline where you both have the same view and look them right in the eye as you make an egregiously bad call by six inches or a foot--if you want to add some extra emphasis to it you can say, "Two can play at this cheating game!"

I honestly think that people who are capable of "revenge cheating" are capable of cheating themselves. All you need to do to justify your cheating is simply accuse the other person of cheating--then anything goes, and there is no end to the amount of cheating you can justify because the amount of cheating accusations you can make is also endless.

Not giving them lets when you normally would, or beaning them off the court are completely legal. I support this type of behavior in response to a cheater, whereas against a normal opponent you wouldnt be trying to bean them and would give them more first serves.

If you're willing to call a ball 6 inches in the court as out in response to one of their bad calls then you're also willing to call a match point ball as out even if it's not actually "retaliatory" and equitable (1:1 bad calls). All you need to tell yourself then is "they would have done the same thing".

This isnt life or death. You dont need to cheat even if they're cheating. You can give cheating opponents a really hard time without having to actually cheat.

how long will it be when most of the clubs will have Play sight like tech to call all lines ? I know at present it is just too expensive to install and too expensive to have it ON at all times. and they are not 100 % accurate....lol

Hawkeye is accurate up to 5mm and has 10 cameras. That's going to be more accurate than any number of line judges.

The real issues with Hawkeye are showing the improper ball in question, the impact maximum it "generates" but does not see and it being sometimes "unavailable" when called upon.

The accurate to within 5mm is often ridiculed, but really it's better than any human can actually see.

 

[mikeler]

With regards to revenge cheating, I only did it once in my entire life. I've had so few issues with bad line calls (luckily) over a few decades. The reason why I did it this one time is because the this junior opponent was so much better than me and was bragging before the match to his friends about "when in doubt, call it out". We were on clay and he wouldn't even bother circling out marks, he would circle the actual mark and then we would switch sides and I could see the ball was actually in.

So I tried a trick that I thought I'd never use which my coach at the time told me he used once. I caught his clearly in 2nd serve with my left hand and called out. Words were exchanged at the net immediately after that for a few minutes, I didn't yield on the call and he still ended up double bageling me! The cheating stopped after that but I really don't recommend doing this. It's just not worth it since you never know how people might react.

 

[Matthew Lee]

Notoriously bad line calls are seen in every level for me: Juniors, high school, college, recreational, etc.
Me: If I know it's in and it was called out, I don't necessarily rush the net right away. Unless it was way too obvious, I let it go with a frowning expression, but I try to keep my cool. If it goes on, and it costs me more than I would like, I ask for a line judge. The only real time I got mad was when the guy called it out and then started yelling "let's go" and "come on". Even on a double fault he would fist pump and you would think he just hit a brilliant passing shot. I decided to call a few of his shots out, and he thought, at this point, that because he was "playing fair", he should do so, too. I realized this and I just drop-shotted him for a good portion of our points.

I ended up winning and he gave me the laziest hand-shake I ever received.

 

[tennis tom]

I honestly think that people who are capable of "revenge cheating" are capable of cheating themselves.

That makes no sense. But if you want to harbor that opinion you're welcome to it.

 

[mikeler]

That makes no sense. But if you want to harbor that opinion you're welcome to it.

I consider myself a fair player. I did the reverse cheating once, but the other 99% of players I've faced that play fair, I show the same respect to them.

 

[Mr.Lob]

With regards to revenge cheating, I only did it once in my entire life. I've had so few issues with bad line calls (luckily) over a few decades. The reason why I did it this one time is because the this junior opponent was so much better than me and was bragging before the match to his friends about "when in doubt, call it out". We were on clay and he wouldn't even bother circling out marks, he would circle the actual mark and then we would switch sides and I could see the ball was actually in.

So I tried a trick that I thought I'd never use which my coach at the time told me he used once. I caught his clearly in 2nd serve with my left hand and called out. Words were exchanged at the net immediately after that for a few minutes, I didn't yield on the call and he still ended up double bageling me! The cheating stopped after that but I really don't recommend doing this. It's just not worth it since you never know how people might react.

Geez,that guy just have been a real "a" hole. He's double bageling you and he still was cheating.

 

[dgold44]

I was playing in a local league (mixed team) and our opponents made horrible calls and his partner did not correct him. I was serving for the match in the second set and he called my serve our after dumping his return in the net. Almost the same thing on the second serve, except he hit it wide. When I asked the the mark he pointed to a spot about 2 feet away. This went on multiple times and we ended up dropping the 2nd set mainly because I lost my cool. Overall, I would say there were over 15 obvious bad calls. Most of the calls came after they hit a ball out or into the net. We loss in 3 sets and after the match their team captain apologized for the bad calls.

What do you do in this situation? How do you handle players like this?

Wow !!!!

I would have pressured him every call and called several close balls out
I have never heard of anything on this level before

 

[newpball]

I was playing in a local league (mixed team) and our opponents made horrible calls and his partner did not correct him. I was serving for the match in the second set and he called my serve our after dumping his return in the net. Almost the same thing on the second serve, except he hit it wide. When I asked the the mark he pointed to a spot about 2 feet away. This went on multiple times and we ended up dropping the 2nd set mainly because I lost my cool. Overall, I would say there were over 15 obvious bad calls. Most of the calls came after they hit a ball out or into the net. We loss in 3 sets and after the match their team captain apologized for the bad calls.

Things are never black and white, I would want to know the other side of the story first.

Fact is you lost, and losers are usually the ones who complain!

 

[newpball]

Cheat them back.....

That's how cheaters start!

 

[newpball]

Of course you don't want witnesses when you're evening out the playing field. There aren't that many people watching amateur tennis matches, much less paying close attention while they're discussing the fine nuances of merlots and chardonays. If it's a "big" league match and everyone else has finished their matches and watching yours then there's witnesses. You do your revenge cheating when it's just you guys. Your baseline is the best one to cheat on since they can't see it well. But, if you want to really make your point that you're on to them and can cheat as well of better then them, you wait for one down a sideline where you both have the same view and look them right in the eye as you make an egregiously bad call by six inches or a foot--if you want to add some extra emphasis to it you can say, "Two can play at this cheating game!"

 

[dgold44]

Most people don't like confrontation, myself included. So the bad line callers expect you not to push back too hard. I played a notorious bad line caller in a league match a few years ago for the first time. Early in our match, there were a few balls I hit out that were close (but were out) and as soon as he called them out, I rushed the net and made a big "to do" asking "Are you sure?", "Where's the mark?" etc. It was gamesmanship on my part, but he didn't give me a bad call the whole match because he knew I was going to make a scene if he did.

I was playing against a notorious cheat in practice match once and I just walked to my sideline and put my racket in the bag and exited the place and proceeded to my car

Now I am more mature today and my new approach would be to simply quit and yell at the guy then exit the place and proceed to my car

 

[tennis tom]

how long will it be when most of the clubs will have Play sight like tech to call all lines ? I know at present it is just too expensive to install and too expensive to have it ON at all times. and they are not 100 % accurate....lol

There will still be cheating, but it will be the ruskies hacking into the Play Sight computer, to rig America's USTA matches.

 

[newpball]

I was playing against a notorious cheat in practice match once and I just walked to my sideline and put my racket in the bag and exited the place and proceeded to my car

Now I am more mature today and my new approach would be to simply quit and yell at the guy then exit the place and proceed to my car

It speaks volumes!

 

[esgee48]

If someone has a rep for cheating, you should ask for an official as soon as it occurs. Or ask the TD before the match and ask the match to be entirely referreed. Other options are the 2 captains or designate and if they disagree, it's good. Taking the opportunity for bad calls out of the equation, then play. I am aware of at least several occasions where the match was watched by an official or 2 others.

 

[esgee48]

Deleted - duplicate post

 

[mmk]

how long will it be when most of the clubs will have Play sight like tech to call all lines ? I know at present it is just too expensive to install and too expensive to have it ON at all times. and they are not 100 % accurate....lol

At $10K/court - never. But at $200/court clubs might go for this:
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...ill-end-tennis-club-screaming-matches.584568/

 

[NTRPolice]

That makes no sense. But if you want to harbor that opinion you're welcome to it.

It makes perfect sense.

If someone can shoot someone to "save a life" then they are also capable of shooting someone to "take a life". Some people are not capable of shooting someone no matter what the circumstance is. I've been asked on job applications "If you had to take the life of another person, could you? Would you hesitate?". If you answer "yes" to those your application may be discarded.

A person who is willing to cheat in response to cheating has a different mentality than someone who will play fair even if their opponents are cheating. If this mentality isnt natural, then it shouldnt be encouraged. If it's natural, it should be discouraged. You dont have to cheat in response to cheating. It's a game, not a shootout. Dont give them any lets. Dont give them any "benefit of doubt". Call for lines judges. Bean them. Leave the balls scattered, ect. None of that is cheating, but definitely sends a message that you wont be taken advantage of.

The same thing applies to tennis. If you're willing to call a ball that is 1 ft. in the court as "out" then you're willing to cheat "big time" if you feel it's necessary. Because this is a sport and it's for fun, we shouldnt encourage this type of behavior, even if it's in response to your opponent cheating. It's not life or death.

A person who is capable of calling a ball that's a foot inside the court as out isnt going to call balls that hit the line as in on a critical point. They arnt. They dont have the mentality to do so.

 

[OrangePower]

It makes perfect sense.

If someone can shoot someone to "save a life" then they are also capable of shooting someone to "take a life". Some people are not capable of shooting someone no matter what the circumstance is. I've been asked on job applications "If you had to take the life of another person, could you? Would you hesitate?". If you answer "yes" to those your application may be discarded.

A person who is willing to cheat in response to cheating has a different mentality than someone who will play fair even if their opponents are cheating. If this mentality isnt natural, then it shouldnt be encouraged. If it's natural, it should be discouraged. You dont have to cheat in response to cheating. It's a game, not a shootout. Dont give them any lets. Dont give them any "benefit of doubt". Call for lines judges. Bean them. Leave the balls scattered, ect. None of that is cheating, but definitely sends a message that you wont be taken advantage of.

The same thing applies to tennis. If you're willing to call a ball that is 1 ft. in the court as "out" then you're willing to cheat "big time" if you feel it's necessary. Because this is a sport and it's for fun, we shouldnt encourage this type of behavior, even if it's in response to your opponent cheating. It's not life or death.

A person who is capable of calling a ball that's a foot inside the court as out isnt going to call balls that hit the line as in on a critical point. They arnt. They dont have the mentality to do so.

I agree with you, but, does it depend on how you define "cheating"? For example, let's say your opponent's groundstroke lands on the T, as in as any ball can possibly be, and yet you call it out. Is that "cheating"? Because you know it was in, your opponent knows it was in, you know your opponent knows it was in, and he knows you know! Can something that blatantly obvious be considered "cheating", or does it then become something else?

 

[kylebarendrick]

To me, that is why a retribution call has to be so far in that there is no doubt what you are doing. Middle of the service box, 3 feet inside the baseline, etc. I've never been able to get myself to do it, but I've wanted to - especially after watching an opponent call four of my partner's serves out in a single game that were all in.

 

[Nostradamus]

Yes That is Huge advancement in tech...........but there is still small margin for error like 0.78 inch ?? How does that compare to Haweye ?? 0.78 inch is almost 1 inch....... that is like calling ball that is 1 inch out,,,,,,IN

At $10K/court - never. But at $200/court clubs might go for this:
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...ill-end-tennis-club-screaming-matches.584568/

 

[Nacho]

I was playing in a local league (mixed team) and our opponents made horrible calls and his partner did not correct him. I was serving for the match in the second set and he called my serve our after dumping his return in the net. Almost the same thing on the second serve, except he hit it wide. When I asked the the mark he pointed to a spot about 2 feet away. This went on multiple times and we ended up dropping the 2nd set mainly because I lost my cool. Overall, I would say there were over 15 obvious bad calls. Most of the calls came after they hit a ball out or into the net. We loss in 3 sets and after the match their team captain apologized for the bad calls.

What do you do in this situation? How do you handle players like this?

I usually give a couple of benefits, my eyes aren't always great either. 2-3 close calls I live with and don't say anything, these never make or break a match......But 15 calls seems excessive...I usually will question them when I think its obvious to me, each and every time: "are they sure? Is there a mark? (walk over and look at it) what does their partner think? etc..." I think in most cases this lets them know I am looking and maybe they will doubt themselves a little and hit some that are out. If they're a jerk about it, I don't have a problem telling them they can't call lines...Its rare any "confrontation" ensues, and you need to stand up for yourself out of principle. No one likes a cheater, or a jerk.

On the other end of it I have had people question every call, which is annoying too....especially when the shots seem obviously out.

But in the end, its a rec. match, your not playing for money, ATP points, or going to the moon. No need to get worked up about it. Just note the player and if you encounter them again ask for a ref beforehand or have a teammate stand on their side the whole time watching their line calls.....

 

[pabletion]

I was playing in a local league (mixed team) and our opponents made horrible calls and his partner did not correct him. I was serving for the match in the second set and he called my serve our after dumping his return in the net. Almost the same thing on the second serve, except he hit it wide. When I asked the the mark he pointed to a spot about 2 feet away. This went on multiple times and we ended up dropping the 2nd set mainly because I lost my cool. Overall, I would say there were over 15 obvious bad calls. Most of the calls came after they hit a ball out or into the net. We loss in 3 sets and after the match their team captain apologized for the bad calls.

What do you do in this situation? How do you handle players like this?

15 BAD CALLS???? Its your fault you lost the match, how can you stand for that? Man up!!!

 

[Dartagnan64]

15 bad calls means you were shooting too close to the lines to give them 15 opportunities.

Bad calls happen but I doubt I'd give someone that many opportunities to call a ball on the lines out.

In any event, my general response is to play better tennis rather than relying on favorable line calls. It is never to out-cheat the cheater. I'd rather be the better person so as to heap burning coals upon their head. I don't think "an eye for an eye" is appropriate in tennis.

 

[tennis tom]

If someone can shoot someone to "save a life" then they are also capable of shooting someone to "take a life". Some people are not capable of shooting someone no matter what the circumstance is. I've been asked on job applications "If you had to take the life of another person, could you? Would you hesitate?". If you answer "yes" to those your application may be discarded.

What companies are you applying to, try the US Army.

You dont have to cheat in response to cheating.

No you don't have to--it's an option.

If you're willing to call a ball that is 1 ft. in the court as "out" then you're willing to cheat "big time" if you feel it's necessary.

You don't have much faith in your fellow human's capacity for free will. You don't know me--you're just blowing hot air out your buttes based on nothing.

A person who is capable of calling a ball that's a foot inside the court as out isnt going to call balls that hit the line as in on a critical point. They arnt. They dont have the mentality to do so.

Repeat and rinse the above. You know nothing and are just pontificating.

 

[winchestervatennis]

I usually give a couple of benefits, my eyes aren't always great either. 2-3 close calls I live with and don't say anything, these never make or break a match......But 15 calls seems excessive...I usually will question them when I think its obvious to me, each and every time: "are they sure? Is there a mark? (walk over and look at it) what does their partner think? etc..." I think in most cases this lets them know I am looking and maybe they will doubt themselves a little and hit some that are out. If they're a jerk about it, I don't have a problem telling them they can't call lines...Its rare any "confrontation" ensues, and you need to stand up for yourself out of principle. No one likes a cheater, or a jerk.

On the other end of it I have had people question every call, which is annoying too....especially when the shots seem obviously out.

But in the end, its a rec. match, your not playing for money, ATP points, or going to the moon. No need to get worked up about it. Just note the player and if you encounter them again ask for a ref beforehand or have a teammate stand on their side the whole time watching their line calls.....

Im pretty sure you're not entitled to go to the opponent's side to inspect a mark and could be coded for unsportsmanlike conduct by an official. But nothing stops you from looking at it the next changeover.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

What amuses me is that there are entire teams that are known throughout the section as blatant cheats at line calls. Every team every level out of one particular club. I am always thrilled when I am not in the lineup for those matches.
After a particularly flagrant call early in the match, I will ask the person who called it if they know that lines are considered good and ask if they know which side of the line is considered out .... it will sometimes temper the bad calls for a game or two. Then I will follow up later with, I thought we had this discussion earlier about which side of the line is considered out.
I tell myself I will retaliate with a bad call on my side, but I never do it.
I feel guilty enough about the inadvertent bad calls that I make, often in their favor, to be able to do it. I don't want the reputation of being "that player".

lol, "did the ball touch the 'out' part of the line?"

 

[NTRPolice]

I agree with you, but, does it depend on how you define "cheating"? For example, let's say your opponent's groundstroke lands on the T, as in as any ball can possibly be, and yet you call it out. Is that "cheating"? Because you know it was in, your opponent knows it was in, you know your opponent knows it was in, and he knows you know! Can something that blatantly obvious be considered "cheating", or does it then become something else?

There is nothing in the Code that says the first bad call is an act of unsportsmanlike conduct. It does say you should contact an official if there is a pattern of bad calls, or if there is a retaliatory call.

Here's why: The first "bad call" in a series of bad calls is not the worst call. Once you start thinking about some of the "retaliatory calls" people are suggesting in this thread, you can clearly see that the first call might be barely inside the line, whereas the "retaliatory" call is suggesting calling the next ball as out no matter where it lands. I've never seen the "first bad call of the match" be one that was a serve that landed inside the center of the service box.

The reason why the code says "pattern of bad calls" is because you're supposed to give your opponent the benefit of doubt when they make their calls against you. After a pattern of bad calls, then, you're not longer expected to give them the benefit of doubt. You may then summon an umpire.

A "retaliatory line call" is never acceptable. It's cheating. You can get back at your opponents by being creative. You dont have to cheat. If you're a kid and you do it, I suppose I understand the mentality. No adult should ever resort to challenging another individual to a contest of who can get the most stupid. We arnt kids on a jungle gym that are trying to push the limit of stupid until one of us breaks our neck's. That's what making a retaliatory call is.

Your opponent calls a ball that's 3 inches in as out, so you call a ball that's 3 ft. in as out, so they're supposed to call the next ball that's 30 ft. in as out? What does that accomplish?

 

[Nostradamus]

At $10K/court - never. But at $200/court clubs might go for this:
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...ill-end-tennis-club-screaming-matches.584568/

Guys, do you think if I do decide to buy this thing,,, should I bring it to every USTA matches and even the Playoffs as well and use it during the match ?? What if the Opponents say, they don't want this used ?

 

[tennis tom]

The first "bad call" in a series of bad calls is not the worst call.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT??? Your entire reasoning is not worthy of a point by point response. You are creating a fictional narrative. You must be very young and have a limited experience with the vast variety of players that populate the tennis courts of the planet. I'm not wasting anymore brain cells on this. OUT!!!

 

[mmk]

Guys, do you think if I do decide to buy this thing,,, should I bring it to every USTA matches and even the Playoffs as well and use it during the match ?? What if the Opponents say, they don't want this used ?

You'd have to get your opponent to agree to use it.

 

[OrangePower]

There is nothing in the Code that says the first bad call is an act of unsportsmanlike conduct. It does say you should contact an official if there is a pattern of bad calls, or if there is a retaliatory call.

Here's why: The first "bad call" in a series of bad calls is not the worst call. Once you start thinking about some of the "retaliatory calls" people are suggesting in this thread, you can clearly see that the first call might be barely inside the line, whereas the "retaliatory" call is suggesting calling the next ball as out no matter where it lands. I've never seen the "first bad call of the match" be one that was a serve that landed inside the center of the service box.

The reason why the code says "pattern of bad calls" is because you're supposed to give your opponent the benefit of doubt when they make their calls against you. After a pattern of bad calls, then, you're not longer expected to give them the benefit of doubt. You may then summon an umpire.

A "retaliatory line call" is never acceptable. It's cheating. You can get back at your opponents by being creative. You dont have to cheat. If you're a kid and you do it, I suppose I understand the mentality. No adult should ever resort to challenging another individual to a contest of who can get the most stupid. We arnt kids on a jungle gym that are trying to push the limit of stupid until one of us breaks our neck's. That's what making a retaliatory call is.

Your opponent calls a ball that's 3 inches in as out, so you call a ball that's 3 ft. in as out, so they're supposed to call the next ball that's 30 ft. in as out? What does that accomplish?

Often there are no officials involved, and there is no real recourse if your opponent is hooking you obviously and repeatedly.
So then the only thing that can be done is to let the opponent know that you know that he is cheating repeatedly, and that you are not going to stand for it.
Calling a blatantly in ball as out is a way to do that, using a language that the opponent is likely to understand.
What other options are there, short of refusing to continue to play?

Just curious, what would you do if your opponent started calling anything within 5 feet of the lines as out (and there were no officials to call)?

You could confront him about it, but let's say that he just laughs and it does not deter him.
You could just stop playing, and concede the match.
Or you could force the issue by retaliating in a very obvious way.

Let me also add that this is a hypothetical - thankfully I've never come across an opponent that is hooking so badly, and I've never had to resort to even calling an official / linesperson.

 

[NTRPolice]

Often there are no officials involved, and there is no real recourse if your opponent is hooking you obviously and repeatedly.
So then the only thing that can be done is to let the opponent know that you know that he is cheating repeatedly, and that you are not going to stand for it.
Calling a blatantly in ball as out is a way to do that, using a language that the opponent is likely to understand.
What other options are there, short of refusing to continue to play?

Just curious, what would you do if your opponent started calling anything within 5 feet of the lines as out (and there were no officials to call)?

You could confront him about it, but let's say that he just laughs and it does not deter him.
You could just stop playing, and concede the match.
Or you could force the issue by retaliating in a very obvious way.

Let me also add that this is a hypothetical - thankfully I've never come across an opponent that is hooking so badly, and I've never had to resort to even calling an official / linesperson.

You stop play and ask for both captains to come to the court. You then explain that your opponent is calling balls several feet in the court as out, and when questioned about the clearly bad calls, they "laughed". Explain to both captains that if this behavior continues you will default the line, not confirm the score, and file a grievance for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Telling your opponent "Are you sure? That ball was several feet inside the court.", is just as effective as calling their next shot out. The difference is that you havnt cheated or further degraded the game.

If you're going to assume that calling the captains and directly accusing your opponent of cheating wont work then why can you assume that retaliatory calls will? If the person is that brazen then a retaliatory call is only going to raise tempers. Raising tempers isnt going to solve the issue. Calling the captains to the court and accusing your opponent of cheating should embarrass them to the point where they call the lines decently. The captains or acting captains should be present at every match. If there are no captains, there should be umps.

People are use to getting a few bad calls here and there. People are not used to having serves in the middle of the box called as out, nor ground strokes at the T. If you do that, you're going to look like the angry teenager, not your opponent, even if your opponent has actually called 4-5 balls on the line as out and you only did one retaliatory call. It would enrage TennisTom even more to know that someone filed a grievance against him since the opponents captain saw the retaliatory call. He might think he was smart in the moment.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Guys, do you think if I do decide to buy this thing,,, should I bring it to every USTA matches and even the Playoffs as well and use it during the match ?? What if the Opponents say, they don't want this used ?

You'd have to get your opponent to agree to use it.

Even if my opponent decided not to use it to make official calls, i'd still set it up... I'd guess that it would act sorta like a roving line judge, ie. keeps the calls more honest when the judge is around.
So if they cheated on a call, i might have to go back "to the video tape" and say something like, "funny this thing shows it as 6in IN, but it only has a .78in error rating"... i think it would keep people more honest, and only leave the extremely controversial calls up for grabs (ie. caught a sliver of the line), and i'd be fine with that.

In the end, i think most folks just care about line calls being called fairly and consistently on both sides, rather than whether or not a hair of the ball caught the line. ie. who cares if a "hair of the ball touching the line" is being consistently called out.... if it's being consistently called out on both sides. i honestly wouldn't care if the ball squarely hits the line, and is called out, as long as it's consistent on both sides.

the troubles arise when we are the types that give benefit of the doubt, and the other side doesn't, so the sense of fairness is gone.. meanwhile how do you define an allowable tolerance of "benefit of the doubt"?

 

[mmk]

Even if my opponent decided not to use it to make official calls, i'd still set it up... I'd guess that it would act sorta like a roving line judge, ie. keeps the calls more honest when the judge is around.
So if they cheated on a call, i might have to go back "to the video tape" and say something like, "funny this thing shows it as 6in IN, but it only has a .78in error rating"... i think it would keep people more honest, and only leave the extremely controversial calls up for grabs (ie. caught a sliver of the line), and i'd be fine with that.

In the end, i think most folks just care about line calls being called fairly and consistently on both sides, rather than whether or not a hair of the ball caught the line. ie. who cares if a "hair of the ball touching the line" is being consistently called out.... if it's being consistently called out on both sides. i honestly wouldn't care if the ball squarely hits the line, and is called out, as long as it's consistent on both sides.

the troubles arise when we are the types that give benefit of the doubt, and the other side doesn't, so the sense of fairness is gone.. meanwhile how do you define an allowable tolerance of "benefit of the doubt"?

I agree, I may buy one if my club doesn't, more out of interest than need - pretty much all the guys I play are honest/generous with line calls. I'd just like to see how often we play serves that are actually long.

 

[Nostradamus]

Even if my opponent decided not to use it to make official calls, i'd still set it up... I'd guess that it would act sorta like a roving line judge, ie. keeps the calls more honest when the judge is around.
So if they cheated on a call, i might have to go back "to the video tape" and say something like, "funny this thing shows it as 6in IN, but it only has a .78in error rating"... i think it would keep people more honest, and only leave the extremely controversial calls up for grabs (ie. caught a sliver of the line), and i'd be fine with that.

In the end, i think most folks just care about line calls being called fairly and consistently on both sides, rather than whether or not a hair of the ball caught the line. ie. who cares if a "hair of the ball touching the line" is being consistently called out.... if it's being consistently called out on both sides. i honestly wouldn't care if the ball squarely hits the line, and is called out, as long as it's consistent on both sides.

the troubles arise when we are the types that give benefit of the doubt, and the other side doesn't, so the sense of fairness is gone.. meanwhile how do you define an allowable tolerance of "benefit of the doubt"?

What is the margin of Error on Haweye system ? is it a lot better 0.78 inch margin ?

 

[tennis tom]

Often there are no officials involved, and there is no real recourse if your opponent is hooking you obviously and repeatedly.

It would enrage TennisTom even more to know that someone filed a grievance against him since the opponents captain saw the retaliatory call. He might think he was smart in the moment.

You stop play and ask for both captains to come to the court.

NTRP, you are obviously not reading others post to you in creating your fake narrative--check your meds! Most matches have NO officials or captains to call on, and that's when the psycho-cheaters come out from under their rocks. If there were captains at the venue, they are likely playing too. If there's a tournament referee, he may be observing another match he's been called to--you don't always have "tennis police" available and you have to take care of business yourself. I would not be in a position to have a grievance filed against me because I'm "smart" enough not to play league tennis anymore. When I compete it's in the Seniors where 99% of the players know tennis and this B.S. thankfully doesn't happen. I've been playing for over sixty years, public parks, private clubs, college, league, sectionals, opens, seniors, grand prix, and in many countries and continents, and trust me my friend, there are a few tennis psychos out there, thankfully a tiny minority, and everyone they encounter know who they are and their antics--and the best way to deal with them is to give them a taste of their own medicine--cheat them back and look them in the eye when you do--then they play fair because they respect you and fear you are better at cheating then they are and abandon that tactic--and if anyone is watching they thank-you afterwards for having the courage to bully the bully back.

 

[OrangePower]

You stop play and ask for both captains to come to the court. You then explain that your opponent is calling balls several feet in the court as out, and when questioned about the clearly bad calls, they "laughed". Explain to both captains that if this behavior continues you will default the line, not confirm the score, and file a grievance for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Telling your opponent "Are you sure? That ball was several feet inside the court.", is just as effective as calling their next shot out. The difference is that you havnt cheated or further degraded the game.

Flex league does not have captains, officials, or teammates to call. So what do you do?

Telling your opponent "that was several feet inside the court" still leaves you with no recourse if they just say "well, its my call, and I saw it out". Of course you both know he is lying / cheating, but there is nothing to be done other than to (1) concede points like that whenever he feels like taking them, or (2) stop playing and concede the match. Both of which are outcomes your opponent may be trying to goad you into.

Calling an obviously-in shot of theirs out says a similar thing, but in addition sends the statement that you are not going to concede a bunch of points or the match itself.

Really, what would you do? Flex league match, just you and your opponent and no-one else, opponent is making truly ridiculous calls.
The only other alternative is to walk off the court.

 

[OrangePower]

In the end, i think most folks just care about line calls being called fairly and consistently on both sides, rather than whether or not a hair of the ball caught the line. ie. who cares if a "hair of the ball touching the line" is being consistently called out.... if it's being consistently called out on both sides. i honestly wouldn't care if the ball squarely hits the line, and is called out, as long as it's consistent on both sides.

Completely agree. Any such device is going to be making much more accurate calls than we as the players on court can make ourselves, and it would be making the calls impartially. Thats all you can ask for.