Ball hitting the squares of the stringbed diagonally - equal bounce?

boatsign

New User
Do the mains and the crosses have equal bounce?

Based on TW customer reviews I have strung two racquets with gut mains and nylon crosses at 2 lbs higher tension. The Blade 104 racquets are weighted to about 331 gm.

Babolat VS 15L / Wilson Sensation Control 16 at 56 and 58
Babolat VS 17 / Wilson Synthetic Gut Power at 56 and 58

Very comfortable, still adjusting my swing and racquet orientation during break-in. I'm watching the control or accuracy on serves, topspin lobs, deflections, etc. Ideally I would like the mains and the crosses to impart equal bounce when "brushing" the ball diagonally to the stringbed.

Question:

How do I string a similar racquet with a full bed Prince Synthetic Gut Duraflex 16 to get performance similar to the gut hybrids above?

Should the crosses have equal tension to the mains, or 2 lbs higher tension?
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
If you believe what TWU says, the PSGD is slightly stiffer than the Wilson brands. That means lower tension if using PSGD. It is your dime, but I would probably try 56# for mains and crosses. You do realize that the strings will not perform the same over time. They will lose tension at significant different rates.

I do not really understand what you are trying to achieve when you say 'equal bounce.' Equal spin? Equal response?

Equal spin ain't going to happen unless you have slice type strokes. Top spin/slice serves? Same principle since the string bed moves and responds AS A UNIT. The mains and crosses where you hit the ball will deflect the same. One cannot deflect more than the other depth-wise. Only way one could do that is if point ball impacts are used rather than 2.5" balls. Mains and crosses will also move side ways. But that will depend on force applied in the direction of frame movement AND string coefficients of friction. Since these strings have different COF, they will move differently.
 

boatsign

New User
these two reviews from TW are my source for the setups in the first post:

Babolat VS Team Natural Gut 17 (1.25) String Customer feedback

Comments: If you are going to string with a hybrid, consider using a softer string than polyester on the crosses. String the crosses with Wilson Syn Gut 2 lbs firmer than the mains. I string at 54lbs and 56 lbs, much like the Joker. I am 81 and hit out without trouble. I have used this type of hybrid for about 20 years and have strung it in friends' racquets (on my Babolat Star) with few problems. Gut on gut will wear relatively fast but gut on smooth syn gut seems to last forever. The difference is feel, spin, finesse, and drop shots. I have never had an arm problems. For older players 1/2 gut with soft syn gut is a blessing. Buy the Babolat natural gut, spend a bit more, and save your body!
From: Paul, 5/16

Comments: I agree completely with the previous poster "Paul" -- gut in the mains with a multi in crosses is wonderful. I've been using Babolat VS 17g in the mains with Excel in the crosses strung at 55/57 lbs and the feel and ball pocketing is amazing. Incredibly, the gut is showing little wear but the crosses seem to take all the abuse. To be safe, I replace the (cheaper) crosses about every three weeks just because they show the wear but I've not actually broke a string yet. I'm a senior 4.0 doubles (play 5-6 times per week) so feel and touch are as important as spin and pace. This would not be optimum for younger, hard hitting singles players with more modern grips and playing styles. But oh boy, does it feel nice.
From: Eric, 7/16
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
You want strings that have similar COF. If your SG has a much lower COF, then the NG mains will slide more easily and the string bed will be uneven according to your request. Unfortunately NG is fairly sticky which is why it is often paired with slippery crosses.
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Thinking this over while sipping a soda! There are several options to perhaps achieve your goals. The easiest way is to use a frame that has a small surface area and is 18x20. All the strings in the impact zone will be restricted in their movement just because they will interfere with each other as they try to move. A 2nd way is to increase the tension in the crosses thereby restricting the movement of the mains. You may want to try a differential of 5-8# higher in the cross. A 3rd way may be to just use a much thicker cross (15 or 15L Ga) which does the same thing as #2, but PERHAPS at the tension you want to use. 3 cents due to inflation.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
8732333_orig.jpg
 

boatsign

New User
There was a TW thread where someone tested a full bed of their string on three racquets, with crosses at 2 lbs less, even, and 2 lbs more - can anyone provide a link to that thread?
 

boatsign

New User
FWIW, I bought a couple used Wilson Blade 104 racquets, weighted them to 331 gm, and strung them with full beds of PSGD 16 @ 60 lbs and 62.5 lbs.

Accounting for 20% tension loss (TW specs), they should break in to an "end tension" of 48 lbs and 50 lbs.

As for balls hitting the stringbed diagonally, I guess I must compare the response to the gut hybrids in my first post by trial-and-error.

I am hoping for more comments on getting equal impact of mains and crosses on balls hit diagonal to the stringbed, like on serves.

There are so many articles and posts (mainly polys) about the crosses actually measuring out at 30% less tension than the mains, and that tightening the crosses brings the tension differential down to a 25% discrepancy.

I just wonder if stringing the crosses tighter on a full bed of synthetic gut dials in more consistent accuracy for balls struck diagonal to the racquet - like on a sandpaper ping pong paddle, the ball bounces off the same way in any direction.

TWU?
 

boatsign

New User
Thinking this over while sipping a soda! There are several options to perhaps achieve your goals. The easiest way is to use a frame that has a small surface area and is 18x20. All the strings in the impact zone will be restricted in their movement just because they will interfere with each other as they try to move. A 2nd way is to increase the tension in the crosses thereby restricting the movement of the mains. You may want to try a differential of 5-8# higher in the cross. A 3rd way may be to just use a much thicker cross (15 or 15L Ga) which does the same thing as #2, but PERHAPS at the tension you want to use. 3 cents due to inflation.

Thank you esgee48 -

Tighter stringbed means less string movement means more accuracy. Does that guarantee uniform angle of the departing ball?

I have hit spin overheads from the backcourt that veered off-course by six feet when using a full bed of multifilament @ 56 lbs - when the ball would have landed in with tight, dead synthetic gut strings and the same swing.

Just speculating, if a 3% variation in the above two cases accounts for a 6-foot discrepancy in location to one side, then a 1% variation in string performance accounts for a 2-foot discrepancy to one side.

Just sayin' that a tiny variation of angle, when the ball leaves the stringbed, gets magnified tremendously over the 78-foot length of the playing surface. And 80-plus feet for the diagonal distance of the doubles court.

Maybe that's why dead synthetic gut strings - while not powerful - may deliver consistently accurate placement for service returns and for lobs to the back-hand corner.
 

TW Staff

Administrator
There are too many factors for me to figure out how to make your mains/crosses offer the same response. The cross strings are shorter so you'd want less tension in there to let them respond like the longer mains so stringing the crosses lower makes sense at first. However, as you stated above, the crosses are going to come out lower anyway as the string has to be pulled through the woven mains when tensioned and so there is a significant tension loss. Figuring out how much tension is lost would give you the idea reference tension for the crosses and you'd also need to factor in a formula accounting for the shorter string lengths of the crosses.

I think your best bet is to try proportional stringing. The goal of proportional stringing is to get a more uniform response from the stringbed which it sounds like is what you are seeking.

You might find this thread interesting:
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...ing-tensions-on-crosses.555564/#post-10803305

I hope that helps. I've not tried proportional stringing and just string my mains/crosses at the same tension without any issues -- as long as they are all strung nice and low! Best of luck.

Cheers,
Chris, TW
 
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