When I am practicing my topspin serve, i notice that if my ball toss is right above my head (as in if i look up i see the bottom of the ball directly above me), my serve gets in, but little pace, little topspin, contact with ball seems awkward. But when i toss behind me (sometime quite far, probably a foot behind), i get much more pace on my serve, the ball jumps shoulder high, contact is smooth and it feels right. is this the correct way to toss the ball for topspin serve? I have always been told that: you toss the ball a bit in front of you for flat serve, toss the ball right above you (or a bit behind) for topspin serve. If it is correct, how do you get that toss right all the time, cause right now i get that nice toss only about 30% of the time. Thanks.
ball toss for topspin serve!
- Thread starter ptuanminh
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D
Deleted member 23235
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i have a slightly different toss for each serve...:
flat: overhead, more in front into the court
top: overhead, less into the court, swing more up and down
kick1: left of head, less into the court, swing more up and out to the right
kick2: overhead, less into the court, swing more up and out to the right
for kick, ideally all my tosses are more into court, where i'm launching my self up and into the court... ie. on perfect tosses, where i'm able to push up and into the court with my legs, all my kicks land around a foot from the service line, and hit the back fence on a high arc,... but i think there's less margin for error (ie. toss needs to be perfect to match my lean) - ie. can't replicate this all the time.
as far as how to get a consistent toss... alot of practice. my toss is still not perfect. i spent an hour yesterday practicing 2 things;
* keeping my head up at contact
* experimenting/practicing a consistent toss...
IMO it's a simple motion (fine motor skill) that the pros look easy, but is not (ie. given the other moving parts - ie. loading various power sources, and given the smallish target area you need to toss into)... in general, when my toss is ON, my serve is automatic... 95% of the time my serve is off because i'm spending all my time adjusting to a bad toss.
side note, there's a guy i know that played high D1, and his toss is all over the place (like 3.5 level toss)... he admitted that he spent alot of time getting good at adjusting to a bad toss, and he was unsuccessful at developing a consistent toss because he found it more difficult.
my $0.02
flat: overhead, more in front into the court
top: overhead, less into the court, swing more up and down
kick1: left of head, less into the court, swing more up and out to the right
kick2: overhead, less into the court, swing more up and out to the right
for kick, ideally all my tosses are more into court, where i'm launching my self up and into the court... ie. on perfect tosses, where i'm able to push up and into the court with my legs, all my kicks land around a foot from the service line, and hit the back fence on a high arc,... but i think there's less margin for error (ie. toss needs to be perfect to match my lean) - ie. can't replicate this all the time.
as far as how to get a consistent toss... alot of practice. my toss is still not perfect. i spent an hour yesterday practicing 2 things;
* keeping my head up at contact
* experimenting/practicing a consistent toss...
IMO it's a simple motion (fine motor skill) that the pros look easy, but is not (ie. given the other moving parts - ie. loading various power sources, and given the smallish target area you need to toss into)... in general, when my toss is ON, my serve is automatic... 95% of the time my serve is off because i'm spending all my time adjusting to a bad toss.
side note, there's a guy i know that played high D1, and his toss is all over the place (like 3.5 level toss)... he admitted that he spent alot of time getting good at adjusting to a bad toss, and he was unsuccessful at developing a consistent toss because he found it more difficult.
my $0.02
SinjinCooper
Hall of Fame
For most people, a toss location in line with your head or even slightly behind -- left-right along the baseline continuum -- is necessary for the racquet path to generate much topspin.
For most people, a toss a foot or more into the court -- toward the net -- is necessary in order to generate much depth or pace.
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
We have answered this question several times in recent months. There are many posts with illustrations.
Search TT or Google for a few of these terms:
kick....Salazar.....overhead...."over your head"...slice...Chas
Try Salazar overhead composite pictures
Look at high speed video from the side and watch how far the head moves forward between the toss release and impact.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Salazar doesn't hit down on the ball either. Must of us who are shorter than 6'10" also cannot hit down on the ball.
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
If the racket goes up but the ball leaves the racket going down - is that
1) 'hitting up' or
2) 'hitting down on the ball'?
1) 'hitting up' or
2) 'hitting down on the ball'?
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Here is the kind of data we need for discussions of height, serve projection angle and speed. Unfortunately, the type of serve is not on the graph.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...s_serves_across_the_elite_development_pathway
https://www.researchgate.net/public...s_serves_across_the_elite_development_pathway
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Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
In the article The Physics of the Kick Serve by Rod Cross he states
".....Despite the fact that the server swings up at the ball in a kick serve, the ball must be projected downward below the horizontal for a good serve. The serve angle, A, is typically between 2 and 6 degrees below the horizontal. ....."
This appears in the section on "Serve Parameters" with calculations but my interpretation is that it describes kick serve observations.
In order to observe your kick serve technique look at impact from the side and perpendicular to the ball's trajectory. For observing small angles to the horizontal very careful measurements with vertical references such as a plumb line have to be videoed.
Look for projection angles in high level kick serves, but accuracy becomes an issue.
Cross also mentions a "lob" kick serve technique where the ball is projected up with a considerable angle, has heavy spin and low pace. He says that the 'lob kick serve' is not effective at high levels due to the low pace.
".....Despite the fact that the server swings up at the ball in a kick serve, the ball must be projected downward below the horizontal for a good serve. The serve angle, A, is typically between 2 and 6 degrees below the horizontal. ....."
This appears in the section on "Serve Parameters" with calculations but my interpretation is that it describes kick serve observations.
In order to observe your kick serve technique look at impact from the side and perpendicular to the ball's trajectory. For observing small angles to the horizontal very careful measurements with vertical references such as a plumb line have to be videoed.
Look for projection angles in high level kick serves, but accuracy becomes an issue.
Cross also mentions a "lob" kick serve technique where the ball is projected up with a considerable angle, has heavy spin and low pace. He says that the 'lob kick serve' is not effective at high levels due to the low pace.
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M Pillai
Semi-Pro
I don't understand this. How can you get more pace by tossing behind? My topspin serve tosses are still a bit in the court but more closer to my body to get enough up drive on the ball. But if I toss it right above my head it is going to be a sitter (even though it has a lot of spin), since I dont get enough drive on the serve. I do that sometimes against folks who stand well behind the baseline (to get more sharp angles to ad side), but for most opponents, a serve like that will be an invitation to go for an outright winner.
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D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
I interpreted "behind" as "left of his head" when looking from behind the baseline.
He's is referring to "behind" him presuming his chest is facing the right side fence.
Your description (directly overhead vs above my head but into the court) is what I experience as well.
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D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
for a kicker, yes.. keep in mind there is some element of tossing into the court as well. need to play with the contact point to figure out what works best for you.
for top need to make contact overhead (not so much to the left of your head), but also into the court a bit... also need to play with a contact that works best for you.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Lance L
Semi-Pro
Perhaps a better term would "swinging up" at the ball.
Lance L
Semi-Pro
I think there is a misconception that only some serves should have topspin. A proper first serve type of serve should have a significant topspin component. Professional first serves, even the very best like Sampras, have a very large topspin component.
It is a matter of degree, it is just that second serves and kick serves have more spin.
wait a minute, according to this pic, you can do topspin serve when the ball is in front of you???
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
It'll be overhead and into the court slightly.
Think of your body set up like a spring on an angle.
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