Ban Grunts From All Sports?

T

TimothyO

Hall of Fame
It seems that a lot of people who don't exert themselves while playing tennis or other sports want pro tennis players to remain silent.

And what of other sports? Should professional American footbball players remain silent? How about martial artists? I practice kendo (think Japanese fencing) and kiai, or spirit, is displayed through body langauge and voice and can mean the difference between a loss and a win. Kendo recreates combat and judges specifically look for fierceness in awarding points.

To me it just seems silly to expect tennis players to perform at today's levels and remain completely silent. 90% of the time this rec player is silent on ground strokes but I have been known to let out an involuntary grunt on especially hard shots and, based on my years in martial arts and football, I understand the value of "grunting". You're exerting yourself. It can be involuntary but can also be helpful when done with purpose.

Silent tennis made sense when played at the pace of old school wooden racquets and guys with gumby physiques. It doesn't make sense in today's environment of a far more physical and demanding game which, at the pro level, requires some extreme conditioning (especially in the ATP...many/most WTA members are very fit but I'm amazed at the extra pounds so many of them carry!)

Now, are female yells more annoying? To some, yes. I've been to kendo tournaments and when they ladies are in the squares fighting it out it's like the 2012 AO ladies' final x1000. But why should professional female athletes exerting themselves as hard as any male athlete be expected to remain silent because some don't like the sound?

If an NFL line backer can grunt when making a tackle why not another athlete grunt when swinging away at 100 mph shots? That's a glaring double standard based on outdated notions of tennis and female athletes.
 
It is a tactic not a need. When you screech on a drop shot or soft volley it is not due to effort.
 
TimothyO said:
It seems that a lot of people who don't exert themselves while playing tennis or other sports want pro tennis players to remain silent.

And what of other sports? Should professional American footbball players remain silent? How about martial artists? I practice kendo (think Japanese fencing) and kiai, or spirit, is displayed through body langauge and voice and can mean the difference between a loss and a win. Kendo recreates combat and judges specifically look for fierceness in awarding points.

To me it just seems silly to expect tennis players to perform at today's levels and remain completely silent. 90% of the time this rec player is silent on ground strokes but I have been known to let out an involuntary grunt on especially hard shots and, based on my years in martial arts and football, I understand the value of "grunting". You're exerting yourself. It can be involuntary but can also be helpful when done with purpose.

Silent tennis made sense when played at the pace of old school wooden racquets and guys with gumby physiques. It doesn't make sense in today's environment of a far more physical and demanding game which, at the pro level, requires some extreme conditioning (especially in the ATP...many/most WTA members are very fit but I'm amazed at the extra pounds so many of them carry!)

Now, are female yells more annoying? To some, yes. I've been to kendo tournaments and when they ladies are in the squares fighting it out it's like the 2012 AO ladies' final x1000. But why should professional female athletes exerting themselves as hard as any male athlete be expected to remain silent because some don't like the sound?

If an NFL line backer can grunt when making a tackle why not another athlete grunt when swinging away at 100 mph shots? That's a glaring double standard based on outdated notions of tennis and female athletes.
Click to expand...

It does? Then you'll be able to provide links to the 'lot of people' who have called for silence. Otherwise you'll concede that your entire post is addressing a massive strawman.
 
TimothyO said:
It seems that a lot of people who don't exert themselves while playing tennis or other sports want pro tennis players to remain silent.

And what of other sports? Should professional American footbball players remain silent? How about martial artists? I practice kendo (think Japanese fencing) and kiai, or spirit, is displayed through body langauge and voice and can mean the difference between a loss and a win. Kendo recreates combat and judges specifically look for fierceness in awarding points.

To me it just seems silly to expect tennis players to perform at today's levels and remain completely silent. 90% of the time this rec player is silent on ground strokes but I have been known to let out an involuntary grunt on especially hard shots and, based on my years in martial arts and football, I understand the value of "grunting". You're exerting yourself. It can be involuntary but can also be helpful when done with purpose.

Silent tennis made sense when played at the pace of old school wooden racquets and guys with gumby physiques. It doesn't make sense in today's environment of a far more physical and demanding game which, at the pro level, requires some extreme conditioning (especially in the ATP...many/most WTA members are very fit but I'm amazed at the extra pounds so many of them carry!)

Now, are female yells more annoying? To some, yes. I've been to kendo tournaments and when they ladies are in the squares fighting it out it's like the 2012 AO ladies' final x1000. But why should professional female athletes exerting themselves as hard as any male athlete be expected to remain silent because some don't like the sound?

If an NFL line backer can grunt when making a tackle why not another athlete grunt when swinging away at 100 mph shots? That's a glaring double standard based on outdated notions of tennis and female athletes.
Click to expand...


Grunting doesn't bother me at all. It's totally different from the screaming like they are being massacred type of hollering the women do. Azarenka,Sharapova and their ilk are just using gamemanship with their shreiking. It's unnecessary,and makes the already unbearable WTA tour even more unbearable.
 
TimothyO said:
It seems that a lot of people who don't exert themselves while playing tennis or other sports want pro tennis players to remain silent.

And what of other sports? Should professional American footbball players remain silent? How about martial artists? I practice kendo (think Japanese fencing) and kiai, or spirit, is displayed through body langauge and voice and can mean the difference between a loss and a win. Kendo recreates combat and judges specifically look for fierceness in awarding points.

To me it just seems silly to expect tennis players to perform at today's levels and remain completely silent. 90% of the time this rec player is silent on ground strokes but I have been known to let out an involuntary grunt on especially hard shots and, based on my years in martial arts and football, I understand the value of "grunting". You're exerting yourself. It can be involuntary but can also be helpful when done with purpose.

Silent tennis made sense when played at the pace of old school wooden racquets and guys with gumby physiques. It doesn't make sense in today's environment of a far more physical and demanding game which, at the pro level, requires some extreme conditioning (especially in the ATP...many/most WTA members are very fit but I'm amazed at the extra pounds so many of them carry!)

Now, are female yells more annoying? To some, yes. I've been to kendo tournaments and when they ladies are in the squares fighting it out it's like the 2012 AO ladies' final x1000. But why should professional female athletes exerting themselves as hard as any male athlete be expected to remain silent because some don't like the sound?

If an NFL line backer can grunt when making a tackle why not another athlete grunt when swinging away at 100 mph shots? That's a glaring double standard based on outdated notions of tennis and female athletes.
Click to expand...

You took some time to write this, so I definitely think it's worth a reply. That said, I completely disagree with you.

First, you should acknowledge that absolutely nobody is arguing that tennis players should "remain silent". Grunting has been going on for a long time. It's high pitched screaming or shrieking that is bothering people.

I also disagree that this is a double standard. A double standard means you are judging people differently for the same behavior. Grunting and screaming are different. Male and female tennis players both grunt, but the focus here is on shrieking or screaming while hitting the ball, not grunting. When Schiavone starts drawing flak for her guttural grunts, or when nadal starts getting a free pass for screaming "maaa-meeeeeee! for two full seconds, then we'll have a double standard. Some of these screams have reached the decibel level of standing next to a blender. It's not a grunt.

Finally, I don't think that the analogy to other sports is especially apt. Different sports have different tolerances to crowd noise. Tennis fans cheer between points and during very exiting points, but we expect people to be quiet during the service and generally quiet during the point. In golf, people are even quieter. In (american) football and basketball, people make as much noise as possible to throw off the other team. There's absolutely no need for a "one size fits all" approach to crowd noise. So why should there be one for the players?
 
A grunt is not a scream. Sharapova Azarenka, Both Williams etc. scream at 80+ decibels.. there's a huge difference between that and a grunt.. Why is this so hard to understand.
 
Cup8489 said:
A grunt is not a scream. Sharapova Azarenka, Both Williams etc. scream at 80+ decibels.. there's a huge difference between that and a grunt.. Why is this so hard to understand.
Click to expand...

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Beall Sinclair
 
I agree with the others who differentiate the grunt from what Azarenka and Sharapova do. What Nadal, Djokovic, Ferrer, and many of the female players do should be allowed.

I think this whole "grunting" deal is blown out of proportion in tennis more than other sports because tennis is played in complete silence. Even if you're screaming in a football stadium, I doubt very many people could hear it whereas on a tennis court, not a single noise goes unheard.
 
Cup8489 said:
A grunt is not a scream. Sharapova Azarenka, Both Williams etc. scream at 80+ decibels.. there's a huge difference between that and a grunt.. Why is this so hard to understand.
Click to expand...

Your right. And for the screaming alone I avoid watching them play. Maybe their sponsors will shut em up one day.
 
Cup8489 said:
A grunt is not a scream. Sharapova Azarenka, Both Williams etc. scream at 80+ decibels.. there's a huge difference between that and a grunt.. Why is this so hard to understand.
Click to expand...

+1. Also, an NFL player can be as loud as he wants due to the overwhelming crowd noise (which is part of the game), you can't compare that to a tennis player who is surrounded by a crowd that is expected to be dead silent. Very, very different situation.
 
Cup8489 said:
A grunt is not a scream. Sharapova Azarenka, Both Williams etc. scream at 80+ decibels.. there's a huge difference between that and a grunt.. Why is this so hard to understand.
Click to expand...

+1. Also, an NFL player can be as loud as he wants due to the overwhelming crowd noise (which is part of the game), you can't compare that to a tennis player who is surrounded by a crowd that is expected to be dead silent. Very, very different situation.
 
Those who say that Sharapova, Azarenka, etc are just grunting have probably never had to exert any effort while playing tennis.
 
AZARENKA DOESN’T GRUNT SHE SCREAMS! Jesus i wish people would freaking understand the difference so i don't have to repeat it every thread that tries to compare stupid women screamers with Nadal or Djokovic during a 40 shot rally.
 
The WTA has got to do something about the grunting situation. It's wrong, it's evil, it's cheating, it's disgusting, and it's out of freaking control!!..........Girrrrrrrl Powerrrrrrrrrrr!!! :oops: :oops:
 
Devilito said:
AZARENKA DOESN’T GRUNT SHE SCREAMS! Jesus i wish people would freaking understand the difference so i don't have to repeat it every thread that tries to compare stupid women screamers with Nadal or Djokovic during a 40 shot rally.
Click to expand...

Well, women generally have higher pitched voices than men. You're entering Alice in Wonderland territory if you're proposing that we now measure both volume and frequency!

As for those who compare NFL stadiums to tennis stadiums that's absurd. The tennis players exerts himself or herself no less than the NFL player regardless of what the crowd is doing! I've played both (American) football and tennis and both naturally result in some level of involuntary grunt and both can benefit from deliberate grunting when appropriate. That action is independent of what the crowd is doing.

That being said I do agree with those who state not all grunts/wcream/shrieks are appropriate. Sharapova's noises seem contextual and she doesn't do it on every shot. Azarenka seems to do it deliberately even when not appropriate (eg on some touch shots).

I'll be the first to admit that I strongly dislike female shrieking! When a family with little girls moved in behind us it took a while for my sons and I to get used to the shrieking. They were toddlers at the time and it scared the heck out of us since we weren't used to it. It sounded like "bloody murder" to us but friends with daughters say that's simply how little girls play. Thank goodness we had boys! :)
 
I used to love it when Greg Louganis grunted while doing a reverse 4 and a half somersault in pike position. The grunt had a degree of difficulty of 4.8. Mark Spitz was another awesome grunter.
 
WARNING: Spoiler for those who have not yet seen South Park the Movie!







***

Anyone remember when in South Park the Movie, they forced a chip upon Cartman which would give him an electric shock every single time he would swear? Give the players a similar chip, and if they make noises louder than 90 decibels 3 times in less than 20 seconds then shock them.

It's a good idea, no?
 
Why don't soccer players scream bloody murder kicking the ball down the field? What about a boxer throwing a jab or hook?

It's one thing to exhale, or grunt lightly while exhaling, but it's another thing to be screaming off of your vocal cord.
 
Ban shrieking, allow grunting.

In reality, it is going to be very difficult to define the distinction.
 
Say Chi Sin Lo said:
Why don't soccer players scream bloody murder kicking the ball down the field? What about a boxer throwing a jab or hook?

It's one thing to exhale, or grunt lightly while exhaling, but it's another thing to be screaming off of your vocal cord.
Click to expand...

Boxers very very regularly grunt while throwing their punches, and quite loudly. The surrounding hubbub muffles the obvious sounds of physical exertion.
 
Anyone with half a brain can see the difference between grunting and yelling/screaming/shrieking/etc.

OP is Stanley:

16138sb.jpg
 
TimothyO said:
Well, women generally have higher pitched voices than men. You're entering Alice in Wonderland territory if you're proposing that we now measure both volume and frequency!
Click to expand...

Grunting is forcefully expelling air out of your lungs and starts from down low in your gut. Screeching like WTA do is no different then yelling or screaming or talking. It’s actively using your vocal chords to produce a noise. There is no difference between Azarenka screeching or yelling “MISS THE BALL” in the middle of the point. Again, grunting is due to effort, screeching is due to just being annoying. Simple. That’s why people trying to justify it and defend it fail. There is no defending people purposely being annoying. Now I agree that most women players don’t do it on purpose all the time because they’ve done it so long now it’s become a habbit. But you know what? Tough luck. Just because you have a bad habbit doesn’t justify it. It has nothing to do with athletics or expending effort.
 
If anyone has gotten close courtside at an NBA game, there is a LOT of noise from the players. You are just unable to hear it for the crowd. No shrieking though.
 
simple way to stop this...keep your mouth shut and breath through your nose. See if you can scream like that. Boxers have mouthguards and their mouths shut so if they get hit they dont break their jaw. They will let out an audible 'hmmph' when punching as they exhale out their nose. They don't open their mouth and 'kiaaaiii' when they punch.When you hit a baseball you dont scream out do you? Just imagine if women golfers screamed/shrieked when they teed off. How ridiculous would that look?
 
Learn the difference between a grunt and a scream, no one wants anything to be silent.


TimothyO said:
It seems that a lot of people who don't exert themselves while playing tennis or other sports want pro tennis players to remain silent.

And what of other sports? Should professional American footbball players remain silent? How about martial artists? I practice kendo (think Japanese fencing) and kiai, or spirit, is displayed through body langauge and voice and can mean the difference between a loss and a win. Kendo recreates combat and judges specifically look for fierceness in awarding points.

To me it just seems silly to expect tennis players to perform at today's levels and remain completely silent. 90% of the time this rec player is silent on ground strokes but I have been known to let out an involuntary grunt on especially hard shots and, based on my years in martial arts and football, I understand the value of "grunting". You're exerting yourself. It can be involuntary but can also be helpful when done with purpose.

Silent tennis made sense when played at the pace of old school wooden racquets and guys with gumby physiques. It doesn't make sense in today's environment of a far more physical and demanding game which, at the pro level, requires some extreme conditioning (especially in the ATP...many/most WTA members are very fit but I'm amazed at the extra pounds so many of them carry!)

Now, are female yells more annoying? To some, yes. I've been to kendo tournaments and when they ladies are in the squares fighting it out it's like the 2012 AO ladies' final x1000. But why should professional female athletes exerting themselves as hard as any male athlete be expected to remain silent because some don't like the sound?

If an NFL line backer can grunt when making a tackle why not another athlete grunt when swinging away at 100 mph shots? That's a glaring double standard based on outdated notions of tennis and female athletes.
Click to expand...
 
Devilito said:
Grunting is forcefully expelling air out of your lungs and starts from down low in your gut. Screeching like WTA do is no different then yelling or screaming or talking. It’s actively using your vocal chords to produce a noise. There is no difference between Azarenka screeching or yelling “MISS THE BALL” in the middle of the point. Again, grunting is due to effort, screeching is due to just being annoying. Simple. That’s why people trying to justify it and defend it fail. There is no defending people purposely being annoying. Now I agree that most women players don’t do it on purpose all the time because they’ve done it so long now it’s become a habbit. But you know what? Tough luck. Just because you have a bad habbit doesn’t justify it. It has nothing to do with athletics or expending effort.
Click to expand...

Obviously you've never been in a martial arts dojo. There are some men who sound like shrieking women when fighting. And I'm certain that They could mop the floor with you while doing so.

How would you enforce a rule based on your opinion of grunting vs shrieking? Measure volume and frequency? If an athlete's audible sounds exceed a certain frequency you penalize them? Brilliant!
 
TimothyO said:
Obviously you've never been in a martial arts dojo. There are some men who sound like shrieking women when fighting. And I'm certain that They could mop the floor with you while doing so.
Click to expand...

Alistair Overeem will come to your dojo and mop the floor with everyone at the same time while you or all screaming like little girls. Nobody cares about your kendo anyway. It's 2012, nobody uses a sword anymore, get over it.
 
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