Barclays ATP WTF 2014 SF: [3] Stan Wawrinka vs [2] Roger Federer
- Thread starter jm1980
- Start date
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
The talk of Stan coming to the net as choke is utter BS.
He came to net more times today than Fed and had lot of success throughout the match.
He came to net more times today than Fed and had lot of success throughout the match.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Especially after his clapping today ;-)
They've been pretty great towards both players in their matches in 2012 and 2013 iirc (was present both times)
randomtoss
Semi-Pro
Tennis: made in Switzerland.
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
I think Fed deserved to win the 2nd set for sure, he was the better player that set and the match deserved to go 3. But Wawrinka was better for most of the 3rd.
Oh Fed made the right play each time and props on that, but the point is Wawrinka gave him that option in the first place, thats the choke.
Wawrinka had success when coming to net with good approaches. How many times did he successfully serve and volley throughout the match. Why would you have that as your go to on match point THREE times? And he was cramping at 5-6 sure...that was AFTER all of his match points.
TheMusicLover
G.O.A.T.
Interesting points and to quite a degree I feel compelled to agree with you.
Still, for the matter at hand, I believe Stan truly did his best, and as such I feel the verdict of his loss being a 'choke' being rather derogatory to his attempt this evening.
The guy did put up a brilliant performance and pushed the ATP #2 till the end. Not many of his comrades could claim such an achievement.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
That man who heckled Stan during his serve was not cool.
Stan needs to zone out.
Wonder what he will do in front of the 27000 screaming crowd next week.
Stan needs to zone out.
Wonder what he will do in front of the 27000 screaming crowd next week.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
+1 - and he did successfully serve and volley at least five times prior in the match iirc.Interesting points and to quite a degree I feel compelled to agree with you.
Still, for the matter at hand, I believe Stan truly did his best, and as such I feel the verdict of his loss being a choke being rather derogatory to his attempt this evening.
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
Hahahaha! Goddamn Hood Man causing a ruckus! :lol:
marc45
G.O.A.T.
it has only got worse over the years, like rabid dogs at times
Tennis wizard
Legend
Nah not full screen, about a quarter of the screen, decent quality too
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Interesting points and to quite a degree I feel compelled to agree with you.
Still, for the matter at hand, I believe Stan truly did his best, and as such I feel the verdict of his loss being a 'choke' being rather derogatory to his attempt this evening.
The guy did put up a brilliant performance and pushed the ATP #2 till the end. Not many of his comrades could claim such an achievement.
Fed did not hit great shots to win those points but he made the play to get the UFE.
It is not that Stan dumped makeable shots into the net every time.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Hood Man should write a blog about today's match ! Envy him.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
funny thing is Novak said after the match he doesn't usually let that stuff bother him!....who is he kidding?..that consistently bothers him and has become a bit of an achilles heel
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Yes.
Where are the people complaining about the quality of the matches?
And Federer's volleys were very good, indeed.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Funny how so many posters on here call Novak a pusher and Federer the ultimate aggressive player in men's tennis when most of what I saw from him in that final set was pushing like a pregnant woman without any morphine. You just gotta love TTW at times.
Bukmeikara
Legend
Pushers dont go to the net 30+ times.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Its called tactics. He won the match by being smart.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Both of them pushed in the third set . Fed tried to attack in the first set and that ploy didn't work at all. If you noticed, he went from standing on the baseline to about 5 ft behind .
Chico
Banned
Not to mention double standards when judging the crowd in two matches and Djokovic's and Wawrinka's reactions toward it. Double standards at its worst.
willhunting
Banned
^ Such a hater, smh.
TheMusicLover
G.O.A.T.
Happy to read you agree.
Yes well I as a rather moderate Fed fan I have this habit of always getting into trouble with fellow Fed fans, perhaps because I'm not a fangrl/boi, so pleased to meet a fellow Fed fan who is capable of appreciating in depth critical comments. And appreciating Fed's opponents just the same.
That seems to be hard to do for a lot - giving credits where due.
Best of luck to Fed tomorrow, but most of all, make it a great WTF final!
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
:lol:
If Novak loses it's the crowd's fault.
Djokovic's indoor streak ends tomorrow. Book it.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
One example doesn't determine a players playing style. Federer is obviously more of an aggressive player than Djokovic most of the time. However, I agree, Djokovic is no pusher, and Federer too can play scrambling tennis when he needs it.
When one player comes out on fire offensively and the other doesn't, it's easy for the other player to be pushed around in defensive positions. That's what happened. Federer still came to the net a lot. He used the strategies that worked.
Same thing would have happened to Djokovic under the same circumstance, except he wouldn't have come to the net as much, but would have countered by finding more of his offensive baseline game.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
One fan heckles , one fan creates ruckus = BAD behavior that needs condoned
Whole crowd applauding a break (even one that came through DF) <> Bad crowd.
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
That topspin backhand by Fed was definitely not part of his tactics, that's for damn sure. Thank god he has a GOAT slice....
Sartorius
Hall of Fame
Great match. Small part of it due to wrong reasons though, Mourier really stirred things in the 3rd. Stopping Fed to challenge in the TB was particularly poor.
Stan was better than Federer from the baseline by a good margin, but poor serving and that whole nervy 5-4 game did him in today. I don't like the word choke, but he played those MPs strangely to say the least. S&V served him well at times in this match, so maybe trying once was fine, but there was no reason to force himself to the net at all those match points. Still credit Federer, made him play, a good pass, and also a good serve to save another in TB.
Fed's serve was also bad, again. Also again very fragile on the FH side. The serve he can and must fix against Novak, the FH probably not - I don't think he's comfortable the way ball comes to him on this "dead" surface. That aside how fitting those 2 last points were, net play is now firmly a part of his game, instead of being an option... In any case yet another entertainment delivered today and more to look forward to, hats off.
Stan was better than Federer from the baseline by a good margin, but poor serving and that whole nervy 5-4 game did him in today. I don't like the word choke, but he played those MPs strangely to say the least. S&V served him well at times in this match, so maybe trying once was fine, but there was no reason to force himself to the net at all those match points. Still credit Federer, made him play, a good pass, and also a good serve to save another in TB.
Fed's serve was also bad, again. Also again very fragile on the FH side. The serve he can and must fix against Novak, the FH probably not - I don't think he's comfortable the way ball comes to him on this "dead" surface. That aside how fitting those 2 last points were, net play is now firmly a part of his game, instead of being an option... In any case yet another entertainment delivered today and more to look forward to, hats off.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Anyone will look like a pusher vs. Stanimal in this form + Fed couldn't hit a forehand to safe his life today (still, a pusher doesn't win 25+ points at the net). But yeah, Novak is certainly no pusher either - I expect him to do most of the 'pushing' tmr though if it goes anything like their normal matches.
His volleys were the one part of his game that was great today
ah, cheers. My laptop is not big enough for that
I think the fact that it did bother him today will actually help him tmr. Unless of course the crowd turns completely against him because of the clapping - that would get to him to some extent, I guess.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Novak will never be widely loved.
Fedal, Delpo, Stan are loved far and wide, not just by rabid nationalist fans like some other players...
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
Tell me about it!:-? His topspin backhand was very poor for large parts of the match, and as you say his slice is often what keeps him in play. He used it to great effect to move Stan around the court. Stan's drive-backhand otoh is a thing of beauty.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
This win is actually for Edberg. The volleys at the end won him the match.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
I guess the London crowd never got that memo :-?
Fed is widely loved almost everywhere. Nadal in Latin American countries... That's about it.
TheMusicLover
G.O.A.T.
I advise you to skipp some 20, or 50 posts back in this same thread.
If you look out well, you may catch me calling Fed ...
Pusherer
J
John6239
Guest
Feel bad for Stan. It was a tough match for both. A lot of pressure on both sides.
Both had trouble with their first serves. Looking back at the Murray match, it was really Murray who played poorly to only win one game when federer couldn't find his first serve often. The difference between Murray and even Djokovic vs Wawrinka is wawrinka is more of a power hitter. He can't blast opponents with his shots as consistently as Berdych, Cilic or Del Po but he puts a lot on them and makes it tough to return because he keeps pounding and pounding. Federer has had more trouble this year vs years prior because he is no longer able to absorb big hitting with his new racket and he can't play as offensively from the back of the court because he can't go for as many forehand or backhand winners without hitting them long or wide (although with the new racket he doesn't dump them into the net as much). He relies on his first serve to get him free points or set up for an easy volley or relies on his strong second serve (the most consistent on tour and I think atg). The new racket allows him to defend much better this year.
Sad that he had to beat his friend. Third tournament since September that he has saved match points and won a match. The first set he got off to a bad start because it took time for him to get into it. He did get 1 break back in the first so he was fighting all the way. He should have broken earlier in the second and got confused in his first service game in the third.
I just hope that this doesn't crush wawrinka and hurt his Davis Cup chances. It is on clay his favorite surface. Switzerland probably will have to rely on federer throughout.
Both had trouble with their first serves. Looking back at the Murray match, it was really Murray who played poorly to only win one game when federer couldn't find his first serve often. The difference between Murray and even Djokovic vs Wawrinka is wawrinka is more of a power hitter. He can't blast opponents with his shots as consistently as Berdych, Cilic or Del Po but he puts a lot on them and makes it tough to return because he keeps pounding and pounding. Federer has had more trouble this year vs years prior because he is no longer able to absorb big hitting with his new racket and he can't play as offensively from the back of the court because he can't go for as many forehand or backhand winners without hitting them long or wide (although with the new racket he doesn't dump them into the net as much). He relies on his first serve to get him free points or set up for an easy volley or relies on his strong second serve (the most consistent on tour and I think atg). The new racket allows him to defend much better this year.
Sad that he had to beat his friend. Third tournament since September that he has saved match points and won a match. The first set he got off to a bad start because it took time for him to get into it. He did get 1 break back in the first so he was fighting all the way. He should have broken earlier in the second and got confused in his first service game in the third.
I just hope that this doesn't crush wawrinka and hurt his Davis Cup chances. It is on clay his favorite surface. Switzerland probably will have to rely on federer throughout.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Getting into trouble? With whom? I think we are quite a few good Fed fans, you certainly being one of them. NatF, cc0509 are others. Nathaniel was great too.Happy to read you agree.
Yes well I as a rather moderate Fed fan I have this habit of always getting into trouble with fellow Fed fans, perhaps because I'm not a fangrl/boi, so pleased to meet a fellow Fed fan who is capable of appreciating in depth critical comments. And appreciating Fed's opponents just the same.
That seems to be hard to do for a lot - giving credits where due.
Best of luck to Fed tomorrow, but most of all, make it a great WTF final!
But every fanbase has it's fair share of trolls.
Feel sad for Stan, he really deserved to win - even though Fed got bad calls in the first game of the third and again in the TB
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
Yeah, agree. Wawrinka's ridiculously heavy ball doesn't help either!....
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Hood_Man
G.O.A.T.
Come on Hood man! Help Federer
:lol:
Man, what a blessing to have witnessed THAT live! So much drama, so many backhands, and so many bad tempers :twisted:
Was there any mention by the commentary team about what caused Fed to lose his temper at the start of the third set (aside from being break point down of course)? There were some pretty badly behaved members of the crowd up in the cheap seats, I'm wondering if that was getting to them both.
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
He thought a backhand from Wawa was out, and didn't here the umpire call it in. Only two points later did Federer realise it.
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
Missing the 2nd volley wasn't the choke, Im saying the choke was not even trying to win a baseline rally in one of the THREE chances he had when he set up those chances all due to winning baseline rallies. If he felt nervous and played MP differently from a regular point where he found success with a tactic that is exactly what a choke is.
Like I said losing due to an error isn't always a choke. In both FO finals of 2012 and 2014 Djoko it DF because he went for big 2nd serves knowing he needs to establish point control to have a chance vs Nadal on clay. Tossing in a makeable second would likely be a less than 50% chance to win the point and making a big second serve is likely more than 50%. Also Novak wasn't in winning position really in either of those matches since even if he got the serve in and won the point, he'd still only be at deuce and have a long way to go to even win that set, much less the match.
In contrast I think touching the net on a fairly routine volley to lose the 2013 FO SF to Nadal I think you could call a choke and I think Novak played his best match of the three in 2013, so like I said being a choke and playing well don't have to be exclusive.
Interesting points and to quite a degree I feel compelled to agree with you.
Still, for the matter at hand, I believe Stan truly did his best, and as such I feel the verdict of his loss being a 'choke' being rather derogatory to his attempt this evening.
The guy did put up a brilliant performance and pushed the ATP #2 till the end. Not many of his comrades could claim such an achievement.
I do agree Stan did his best and put up a brilliant performance and many would be lucky to push Fed as hard as he did. However, I don't think a great performance and a choke are mutually exclusive and in fact go together because you need to play really well to get into a winning position (the only time a choke is possible).
I rarely like to use the word choke myself as it usually devalues what the opponent had to do to take it away from you, but I think there are cases where it is warranted and this one fits.
Wawrinka outplayed Federer for most of the match and placed himself into a position to win and then ended up costing himself that position by choosing to use a tactic that is not his strongest and giving Fed the chance to answer without having to do anything exceptional. It makes sense to maybe try that on one match point, but to do it 3/3 times especially when each time he GOT match point by winning a baseline rally (twice by winners) seems like a mistake due to a momentary lapse in judgement - i.e. a choke.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
a lot of drinking?
willhunting
Banned
When Stan is on he can bully anyone around the court and make them look like a "pusher."
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
The umpire did a wrong over rule and he did not ensure Fed heard it.
It was strange because I thought Stan hit it well out and the linesman called it so. Fed was walking back when the umpire over ruled with a quick 'Correction' . But he should have made sure Fed knew about it.
Towards the end, we saw Stan get upset with a fan who was sitting close by heckle him during serve.
Are you going to make a summary post about your day ? Looking forward.
dunlop_fort_knox
Professional
in London? nahhh.
RF20Lennon
Legend
Awesome! would love to see some pics
Basically the passing shot that Wawrinka hit was out but overruled by the Umpire as in but he didn't make it clear and thus Federer didn't realize and couldn't challenge.
dunlop_fort_knox
Professional
that makes 1 this year.
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