Battle of the Drop Volleys: Federer [3] vs Thiem [7] - Stuttgart 2016

Who wins?

  • Fed in 2

    Votes: 15 34.9%
  • Fed in 3

    Votes: 5 11.6%
  • Thiem in 3

    Votes: 15 34.9%
  • Thiem in 2

    Votes: 8 18.6%

  • Total voters
    43
  • Poll closed .

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
After Thiem played 4 hard sets against Goffin the day before.:mad: Have you watched some of the Goffin vs Thiem match? That was tennis. Both players in top 8 in ATP race and their level's are surging (though Goffin not getting much further without a serve game. )
You mean their FO match? No, I recorded it but didn't have patience to watch it. I did watch some of the highlights of the match though.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Who knows? I would have a tough time supporting someone who plays every week and never gets tired.:(
Let's see what this kid Thiem can do. We desperately need youngsters to rise as it's unacceptable the way it is now with no youngsters challenging the very top players.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Thiem barely beat Federer (who had MP and won more points) in Roger's third match back when in teh previous two he was pushed HARD by fritz and mayer. If they meet at Wimbledon, Federer will have the rust shaken off and will be much more focused. Anyone who favors Thiem then, if Roger is healthy, is nuts.
Thiem is a moving target. Just have to see how his grass game develops in the next week. Fed was healthy in this match, but clearly not yet in top form and playing around with his game. Thiem is extremely clutch. Very good chance they'll meet in Halle.:eek::eek::eek:
 

duaneeo

Legend
Close him out nevertheless after the wheels had come off a bit; that's good.
Good perhaps, but IMO nothing impressive considering the circumstances.

Thiem barely beat Federer (who had MP and won more points) in Roger's third match back when in teh previous two he was pushed HARD by fritz and mayer. If they meet at Wimbledon, Federer will have the rust shaken off and will be much more focused. Anyone who favors Thiem then, if Roger is healthy, is nuts.
Spot on.
 

uliks

Banned
Thiem plays every single tournament he can. Singles and doubles.

If he could figure out how to play two tournaments at the same time, he would.
LOL. Yeah you right. He overplays a lot doesn't he. :) But OTOH grass isn't so much physically demanding surface, so hoping for another good showing from the Austrian Prince in Halle also. ;)
 

Pagoo

G.O.A.T.
Let's see what this kid Thiem can do. We desperately need youngsters to rise as it's unacceptable the way it is now with no youngsters challenging the very top players.
My only gripe is beating Nadal and Federer and then folding against Djokovic. Frankly, I don't know where the challenge is going to come from.
 

Arya Stark

Professional
I'm not looking for excuses but Federer was coming back from injury and being extra-cautious on a super wet and slippery grass court.
I hope Halle will be drier. I'm just happy he got to play three matches. I hope he plays 3/4 matches in Halle.
At this rate, i'm not hoping for him to win Wimby or anything, that's wishful thinking and it's just not gonna happen. If he gets to QF there i'll already be happy.
I'm ready to bet that he'll land in Murray's half. So even if he, by some miracle, gets to the semi's, to win, he'd have to beat both Murray and Djokovic... We already know how that went last time. His stamina and endurance aren't what it used to be.

What i'm really hoping for is for a youngin to win Wimby (wishful thinking i know) or Murray at least. I'll be rooting for Murray. Hope he redeems himself from his awful showing in that RG final.
 
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cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
My only gripe is beating Nadal and Federer and then folding against Djokovic. Frankly, I don't know where the challenge is going to come from.
Well Nadal and Federer aren't exactly at Djokovic's level but yes I agree.

The challenge may not come right away and Djokovic will probably rack up a lot more titles but eventually it will come, it always does.
 

Pagoo

G.O.A.T.
Well Nadal and Federer aren't exactly at Djokovic's level but yes I agree.

The challenge may not come right away and Djokovic will probably rack up a lot more titles but eventually it will come, it always does.
Federer needs to be a bit more clutch, please. These losses are getting very predictable. As soon as he failed to break, I already knew which way the match was headed.
 

Nonsense

Hall of Fame
My only gripe is beating Nadal and Federer and then folding against Djokovic. Frankly, I don't know where the challenge is going to come from.
Best time for a guy like Thiem to meet Novak in a slam is 4th round/QF. By the SF, Novak's wide awake and Thiem won't get the chance.

In the last 4 slams, Novak lost 6 sets in the 4th round (2 to Simon, 2 to Anderson, 1 to Agut and 1 to Lopez I think) and 4 sets combined in the semifinal and finals!

Novak's started bulldozing like Nadal at the end of slams.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
There's just nothing whatsoever positive about this match for Roger. Another match where he squanders BP's. To me, that is a far greater knock against him than any H2H against Nadal (whom no one beat on clay for all those years anyway). No top player in the open era has ever lost so many matches when they held MP. Nobody else is even close.

I don't care if Roger is rusty and coming back from injuries, on grass he should have beaten Thiem without any problem.

Roger's ROS is beyond anemic at this point. Sadly, unless his form dramatically reverses, I don't see him making even the 4th round at W. this year.
 

Pagoo

G.O.A.T.
There's just nothing whatsoever positive about this match for Roger. Another match where he squanders BP's. To me, that is a far greater knock against him than any H2H against Nadal (whom no one beat on clay for all those years anyway). I don't care if Roger is rusty and coming back from injuries, on grass he should have beaten Thiem without any problem.

Roger's ROS is beyond anemic at this point. Sadly, unless his form dramatically reverses, I don't see him making even the 4th round at W. this year.
I tend to agree. But as a fan, I can only hope for the best. The alternative is much worse.:(
 

kishnabe

Talk Tennis Guru
I can't take you seriously. Please you're killing me with some of your comments. :oops: Thiem's ROS is not better than Agassi's was anywhere. Agassi and Djokovic have the best ROS in the history of tennis. Connors was up there too. Thiem isn't mentioned in the same breath with any of those guys. Come on.

If Thiem beats even a sick Federer on grass, Federer should retire immediately. :p
Federer should retire then :)
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
I'm not looking for excuses but Federer was coming back from injury and being extra-cautious on a super wet and slippery grass court.
I hope Halle will be drier. I'm just happy he got to play three matches. I hope he plays 3/4 matches in Halle.
At this rate, i'm not hoping for him to win Wimby or anything, that's wishful thinking and it's just not gonna happen. If he gets to QF there i'll already be happy.
I'm ready to bet that he'll land in Murray's half. So even if he, by some miracle, get to the semi's, to win, he'd have to beat both Murray and Djokovic... We already know how that went last time. His stamina and endurance isn't what it used to be.

What i'm really hoping for is for a youngin to win Wimby (wishful thinking i know) or Murray at least. I'll be rooting for Murray. Hope he redeems himself from his awful showing in that RG final.
What "awful showing" was that?
 

kishnabe

Talk Tennis Guru
I do find it quite funny how some Fed fans complain that he shouldn't be losing twice in a row to Thiem but at the same time they whine about how the younger generation aren't stepping up enough and should've been beating old timers like Roger years earlier. I mean bloody hell, make your mind up guys!!!
It is great Thiem won today, hopefully he goes on to beat Djokovic in the future and prove he belongs.

He should though get these type on win on the big stage...Federer losing here does not change much.
 

LinePainter

Professional
In-form Thiem vs rusty Fed, I'm happy Thiem won today but Federer will be a lot better at Wimbledon.
Dominic has really got to cut down on the DFs though, too costly against people in the top 8.
 

dh003i

Legend
Federer will be better by Wimbledon, there is still Halle to be played. Winning Wimbledon would be a tall ask given his injuries this year and of course Djokovic, but it certainly isn't impossible.

Thiem is one of the few promising up-and-coming players who seems to have a good head on his shoulders and could really actually win Majors. He is very solid mentally, which is important.
 

Arya Stark

Professional
What "awful showing" was that?
His complete bending down, after ONE good set: 6-1, 6-2, 6-4
Watching him was painful. He got super tired after ONE set ( He spent wayyy too much energy in the previous rounds) and he completely gave up.

I like Murray (not his game, it's awfully boring, even if he has the means to be aggressive and CAN be, he chooses to play so passively it's infuriating, but for his character. I really like the guy.)
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
His complete bending down, after ONE good set: 6-1, 6-2, 6-4
Watching him was painful. He got super tired after ONE set ( He spent wayyy too much energy in the previous rounds) and he completely gave up.

I like Murray (not his game, it's awfully boring, even if he has the means to be aggressive and CAN be, he chooses to play so passively it's infuriating, but for his character. I really like the guy.)
The rest of the tour doesn't seem to do very well against Djokovic, certainly no better than Murray. If you think you can do better, there's no barrier except your own abilities stopping you from trying.
 
There's just nothing whatsoever positive about this match for Roger. Another match where he squanders BP's. To me, that is a far greater knock against him than any H2H against Nadal (whom no one beat on clay for all those years anyway). No top player in the open era has ever lost so many matches when they held MP. Nobody else is even close.

I don't care if Roger is rusty and coming back from injuries, on grass he should have beaten Thiem without any problem.

Roger's ROS is beyond anemic at this point. Sadly, unless his form dramatically reverses, I don't see him making even the 4th round at W. this year.
Dismissive, absolutist and defeatist, as usual. Your second paragraph really gets my goat. As if you or I could even have a clue exactly what Federer had to deal with recently beyond a vague injury account. There really is no 'should' about it at this point. Back problems can be SO sh*t. A tempered serve, more conservative motions and extensions, all seem like natural results. Of course he would want his form to increase before Wimbledon, that's pretty much why he's playing. I think Nadal's dishonest comebacks after sabbaticals over the years have made people forget how tough it can be. If anything it's GREAT that he's playing at the moment, lest we forget about less fortunate players like Hewitt, Safin etc.. Oh and the 34.8 years of age and 1313 matches might have something to do with it, or are you going to dismiss those as well? Remember, these aren't just excuses, they are genuine contributing factors to a player's decline. I don't even think your glass has any fluid in it at all, quite frankly.

It is disappointing that we can add yet another match to the list where Fed won more points and had MP but lost and I understand that that is frustrating ('what could have been'), but I can't help but look at what Roger has actually achieved and smile. Throw as many knocks against him as you like that is still the end result. Roger's so good he can lose more matches that he statistically should have won than any other player in history and still win the most. If those two qualities are intertwined, so be it.

I suppose it's always more difficult to stomach when there are other all time greats breathing down the necks of his records.
 

mule250

Professional
Dismissive, absolutist and defeatist, as usual. Your second paragraph really gets my goat. As if you or I could even have a clue exactly what Federer had to deal with recently beyond a vague injury account. There really is no 'should' about it at this point. Back problems can be SO sh*t. A tempered serve, more conservative motions and extensions, all seem like natural results. Of course he would want his form to increase before Wimbledon, that's pretty much why he's playing. I think Nadal's dishonest comebacks after sabbaticals over the years have made people forget how tough it can be. If anything it's GREAT that he's playing at the moment, lest we forget about less fortunate players like Hewitt, Safin etc.. Oh and the 34.8 years of age and 1313 matches might have something to do with it, or are you going to dismiss those as well? Remember, these aren't just excuses, they are genuine contributing factors to a player's decline. I don't even think your glass has any fluid in it at all, quite frankly.

It is disappointing that we can add yet another match to the list where Fed won more points and had MP but lost and I understand that that is frustrating ('what could have been'), but I can't help but look at what Roger has actually achieved and smile. Throw as many knocks against him as you like that is still the end result. Roger's so good he can lose more matches that he statistically should have won than any other player in history and still win the most. If those two qualities are intertwined, so be it.

I suppose it's always more difficult to stomach when there are other all time greats breathing down the necks of his records.
Was going to reply to his hyperbole but you said it all here, thanks.
 

mandy01

G.O.A.T.
^Yeah. Bang on. Roger was far, far from his best and it was still a close three-setter. Roger's barely been off the tour for a few weeks and you can already see the rust. Unlike Dull, who takes a year off and then wins two majors. :rolleyes:
 
D

Deleted member 512391

Guest
There's just nothing whatsoever positive about this match for Roger. Another match where he squanders BP's. To me, that is a far greater knock against him than any H2H against Nadal (whom no one beat on clay for all those years anyway). No top player in the open era has ever lost so many matches when they held MP. Nobody else is even close.

I don't care if Roger is rusty and coming back from injuries, on grass he should have beaten Thiem without any problem.

Roger's ROS is beyond anemic at this point. Sadly, unless his form dramatically reverses, I don't see him making even the 4th round at W. this year.
I watched the third set only and to be fair to Roger, he couldn't do anything on the break points he had. If I recall, Thiem hit an ace or a service winner whenever he faced a break point.
 

duaneeo

Legend
The rest of the tour doesn't seem to do very well against Djokovic, certainly no better than Murray.
Being the #2 player in the game (who is referred to as a "Big Four" and has twice beaten Djokovic in a slam final), Murray certainly should be doing more against Nole than "no better" than the rest of the tour.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Understand the disappointment of the Fed fans but man I was amazed by Thiem today. I didn't think he would transition so well to grass. I had expected him to have the same problems that Wawrinka has with never finding a comfortable rhythm on grass but if he can make those backhand drive returns on grass, he could well be dangerous. And I reckon Stuttgart still plays faster and lower than Wimbledon (or at least what Wimbledon gets to by the second week) so he should be even more at ease at Wimbledon. What a prospect! I don't care about the naysayers and I also don't care how many titles Thiem wins. I just love watching him play and seriously how can you not!
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
Being the #2 player in the game (who is referred to as a "Big Four" and has twice beaten Djokovic in a slam final), Murray certainly should be doing more against Nole than "no better" than the rest of the tour.
Define "doing more" please.
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
I think Murray has the game to have better results than that. You don't?
No. His second serve hold game, by the numbers, is not in Djokovic's class. That aspect of his game is his great weakness, and has always been. He's within the mean, not great, not bad. His ATP points, compared to Djokovic, is a clearer look at the size of the gap between their abilities.
 

Urkezi

Semi-Pro
Come on, guys, what's with this defeatist attitude? I actually thought Rog played much better with each match, this was already resembling like something close to him actually playing a match, not just being on court. He is rusty as hell, especially on his backhand, and he could have easily won against Thiem. 3 or 4 matches to come at Halle and then another 3 or 4 before he really needs to put on a show - if he progresses the way he has been throughout this tournament (where he played without a backhand - top spin or slice, and a shabby forehand) he'll easily be in solid form come Wimbledon QF's. A huge overreaction, this was much better than say his last match vs Thiem where he barely moved. Next time Thiem is toast.
 

merwy

G.O.A.T.
My only gripe is beating Nadal and Federer and then folding against Djokovic. Frankly, I don't know where the challenge is going to come from.
As if Fedal and djokovic are on the same level today. You're living in the past man
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
My only gripe is beating Nadal and Federer and then folding against Djokovic. Frankly, I don't know where the challenge is going to come from.
Haha. Thiem will challenge all too soon. After seeing Thiem's block/bunt return do well enough with Fed on grass, I suspect it will be back in force for North American hard court season and leading the tour.:eek: Thiem was horrible late last season, but he was bad on grass too. Thiem might be able to get the job done on fast hard courts where Djokovic is not supreme. Thought Thiem's season would be an anticlimatic after the clay season, but developments are pointing to greater heights.;) If Thiem gets his Acapulco serve going at end of a tournament look out
(78% first serves, 22 aces, 1 DF):confused: Put the Goffin FO match and that serve together and he can beat anyone.:oops:
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Dismissive, absolutist and defeatist, as usual. Your second paragraph really gets my goat. As if you or I could even have a clue exactly what Federer had to deal with recently beyond a vague injury account. There really is no 'should' about it at this point. Back problems can be SO sh*t. A tempered serve, more conservative motions and extensions, all seem like natural results. Of course he would want his form to increase before Wimbledon, that's pretty much why he's playing. I think Nadal's dishonest comebacks after sabbaticals over the years have made people forget how tough it can be. If anything it's GREAT that he's playing at the moment, lest we forget about less fortunate players like Hewitt, Safin etc.. Oh and the 34.8 years of age and 1313 matches might have something to do with it, or are you going to dismiss those as well? Remember, these aren't just excuses, they are genuine contributing factors to a player's decline. I don't even think your glass has any fluid in it at all, quite frankly.

It is disappointing that we can add yet another match to the list where Fed won more points and had MP but lost and I understand that that is frustrating ('what could have been'), but I can't help but look at what Roger has actually achieved and smile. Throw as many knocks against him as you like that is still the end result. Roger's so good he can lose more matches that he statistically should have won than any other player in history and still win the most. If those two qualities are intertwined, so be it.

I suppose it's always more difficult to stomach when there are other all time greats breathing down the necks of his records.
And really Fed can hold his head high, even US Open final. The opponent's clutch play was the factor. Djokovic has done it all too many times lately in some tough matches. Modus operandi for Thiem who did the same to Goffin at the French who was up 5-3 in the 2nd. Fed steam rolls and it got him to the match points today from down 5-0 in the 2nd.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Being the #2 player in the game (who is referred to as a "Big Four" and has twice beaten Djokovic in a slam final), Murray certainly should be doing more against Nole than "no better" than the rest of the tour.
Yep. The French final fiasco in the last three sets was Murray running out of mental/physical gas (plus Djokovic making a strong case for GOAT in those sets). He failed to manage the tournament well with the opening 5 set wins. Murray should get another shot at Wimbledon and hopefully he delivers some competition like he did in the first set of the French. Djokovic has never taken a set from Murray at Wimbledon.:eek:
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
No. His second serve hold game, by the numbers, is not in Djokovic's class. That aspect of his game is his great weakness, and has always been. He's within the mean, not great, not bad. His ATP points, compared to Djokovic, is a clearer look at the size of the gap between their abilities.
Definitely a major weakness on clay for Murray (his only one these days.) On hard courts for many years Djokovic has had vastly superior stats. I would have said Murray has done very well with his opportunities, but then this last FO final makes me wonder what is the malady? Do you know what ails Murray and causes him to play like statistical garbage in some sets? Had a set at French where opponent won 88% of their 2nd serve points. That is just nuts given Murray's return and game on clay. The answer seems to be some kind of mental fatigue....?
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
Definitely a major weakness on clay for Murray (his only one these days.) On hard courts for many years Djokovic has had vastly superior stats. I would have said Murray has done very well with his opportunities, but then this last FO final makes me wonder what is the malady? Do you know what ails Murray and causes him to play like statistical garbage in some sets? Had a set at French where opponent won 88% of their 2nd serve points. That is just nuts given Murray's return and game on clay. The answer seems to be some kind of mental fatigue....?
One set in isolation is too small a sample size. Murray will, for instance, quit on sets if they're out of reach to conserve energy. This would not happen with a fast 4 format. Murray doesn't have a good enough serve game, given his size, strength, and obvious talent for ball striking. He's much bigger and stronger than Pete Sampras, and better off the ground, and yet Sampras had a much better hold game. I don't know why Murray's hold game doesn't work well enough, I only use the information provided by the statistics.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
One set in isolation is too small a sample size. Murray will, for instance, quit on sets if they're out of reach to conserve energy. This would not happen with a fast 4 format. Murray doesn't have a good enough serve game, given his size, strength, and obvious talent for ball striking. He's much bigger and stronger than Pete Sampras, and better off the ground, and yet Sampras had a much better hold game. I don't know why Murray's hold game doesn't work well enough, I only use the information provided by the statistics.
Murray does not have the first serve game and that has been holding him back for years (that was Sampras's bread and butter). Clayray corrected that these last two years on clay and its made a huge difference (up from 70% to 76% first serve points won.) That is my disgust with the 4th set serving; it was so unClayray. He was cleary not tanking, but could not serve to save his life. He should should have been 60% in play in that 4th set 20/34 first serves instead of 14/34. He should have won 15 of those points instead Murray won 6 plus lets say 3 on 2nd. That cost him 6 points on serve in the 4th set. The numbers vary a lot for any player from set to set, but Murray is far more erractic than anyone else. Nadal match in Monte Carlo comes to mind. 70% first serves in first set and then drops to 30% in the 2nd. I've seen him angry at his box when his fitness has failed in matches, so I suppose conserving energy may make sense and it probably revolves around that back of his. Back surgery is a desperate move and he's clearly not 100% all of the time post surgery.

His serve has definitely improved some over the last few years, so perhaps he can get the job done at Wimbledon and with a better serve he might do something at the US Open if the draw rolls his way. Wimbledon is Murray's best surface and it would be pretty easy on the back with the tendency for easier holds of service.
 

Urkezi

Semi-Pro
One set in isolation is too small a sample size. Murray will, for instance, quit on sets if they're out of reach to conserve energy. This would not happen with a fast 4 format. Murray doesn't have a good enough serve game, given his size, strength, and obvious talent for ball striking. He's much bigger and stronger than Pete Sampras, and better off the ground, and yet Sampras had a much better hold game. I don't know why Murray's hold game doesn't work well enough, I only use the information provided by the statistics.
This one is fairly obvious, though. Pete had essentially two first serves :) An enormous difference in serve quality and a much more aggresive approach - first strike forehand winner or going in behind a monster serve - does wonders for your hold game.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
This one is fairly obvious, though. Pete had essentially two first serves :) An enormous difference in serve quality and a much more aggresive approach - first strike forehand winner or going in behind a monster serve - does wonders for your hold game.
And if you want to win major, that first serve is huge. Its what seperates Sampras from Federer. The secret to any player who wins a lot of points on first serve is what happens when they get hot on serve with a higher percentage in play than normal; its lights out for the rest of the draw. The big servers can have greater peak play. Murray now has this gear on clay with his solid ground game to finish off points on first serve better than most players. On hard courts it stops Murray from punching through. Djokovic is rewriting this a bit with his tremendous 2nd serving of late (particularly Wimbledon), but the big Sampras game is best for holding serve and being unbreakable when the serve is hot.
 
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