TennisMaverick
Banned
See TW Review: Boris Becker Delta Core London Tour:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=399669
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=399669
BB London Tour 93in2 Review
- Thread starter TennisMaverick
- Start date
galain
Hall of Fame
As much as the 'Boris Becker' name irks me, I will happily acknowledge how thrilled I am to see a company designing frames that have classy cosmetics.
Granted, it's usually the last thing I think about, but first impressions just by looking at the BB frames are very nice. It's nice to see paintjobs without tiger stripes, circuit boards, psychadelic colours or other marketing targeted guff.
Granted, it's usually the last thing I think about, but first impressions just by looking at the BB frames are very nice. It's nice to see paintjobs without tiger stripes, circuit boards, psychadelic colours or other marketing targeted guff.
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TennisMaverick
Banned
Why does it irk you? I'm very curious.
galain
Hall of Fame
Personally, I understand the concept of using a 'name' to sell product, but it feels very egocentric to me. I don't like the idea of swinging a "Boris Becker" racquet for the same reasons I don't like the idea of using (for example) David Beckham branded cologne. Beyond that, it feels very much like a tactic you would use to market to childen. Britney Spears...whatever, you get my drift? It's one thing to have an understated signature on the side of a racquet frame (although I'm not much a fan of that idea either), but it's a totally different level waving a racquet branded with both someone's first and last names. I don't really understand the need to move beyond the Voelkl marque. A 'Becker' signature range under Voelkl I could understand, but an entire sub/sister company marketed around his name just feels a little too "ME!" for me. Just a personal opinion.
Having said that, the Melbourne is still very high on my wish list of sticks I want to try.
dje31
Professional
Well put, Galain...and not just because we're both Rossi geeks.
But this probably helps explain why there's resistance---justified, logical, or not---to the brand among shops (having spent a ton of time in retail myself). You still have to appeal to the shop owner, buyer, and customer on an emotional level...and if the shop folks don't have that, they won't push the product either.
That being said, I can certainly see myself adding a couple of Melbournes, Londons (Tour & Regular) and whatever this upcoming NYC ends up being, to my collection...which already includes 3 Tour 10 Mids, and my wife's two C10 Pros.
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dje31
Professional
Well, at least for folks who speak English, "Becker" could be a semi-homophone for "Better," so they could use that in marketing material: "It's time to use a Becker (heard: better) racquet."
As long as we're brainstorming, "Boris" could be misconstrued as "boring," or as someone evil/bad guy (see: Boris Badenov, Boris Karloff, Boris Yeltsin, etc.)
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TennisMaverick
Banned
That is exactly what the brick-n-morter owners complain about, although, country club pro shops don't have that issue. But if the sticks sell, why care? Perhaps it's a class issue. Those who summer in the Hampton's have no issue with Boris' name on his own sticks, and IMO, post Counter Culture Revolution, breaking out of the company "autograph" mold, alla, Wilson "Jack Kramer, Stan Smith, Chris Evert, John McEnroe", etc., is no longer culturally necessary, especially when players like Boris, understood how to invest their money, bought major share in the racquet company, and don't have to work. He who dies with the most toys, wins--I really missed the '80's! After all, pro shop owners are in business. That means that they are supposed to be making money, and the BB line is selling. TW is smart enough to leave their personal opinion out of their buyer's decision making process. There is an old Sichuan, China saying: "It doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches the mouse." IMPO, it's cool that Boris' name is on all of his racquets. Wouldn't you want your name on a tennis racquet for the whole planet to be able to buy?!
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NoMansLandPlayer
Rookie
Maybe I am naive, but to me Becker and Volkl are the same company and I do not differentiate between the two. Its just a different name and expanded catalog. Had less racquet disappointments with Becker/Volkl than any other brand tried. Seems every racquet plays good in its own right, maybe its just that all of them have a nice feel.
neverstopplaying
Professional
More amenable, don't know, but a better sounding brand, definitely.
On an unrelated note, I personally tired of all the acronyms that have replaced many brand names. I would not like to see "BB" racquets.
"Becker" racquets - yes!
TennisMaverick
Banned
Remember, Becker was brought up with his name branded. Puma was quick to capitalize on the 17 year old wunderkind slapping his name and BB logo on frames by 1985.
They really did put his name and logo all over the "Super", but it was a Puma Boris Becker, similar to an autograph model. I don't see the difference really, but most do, unfortunately.
galain
Hall of Fame
Granted on all points. Personally - no I wouldn't be overjoyed to see my name everywhere, but that's just me.
I understand the need to distinguish line from line and to have multiple offerings for your market, of course, and bravo to Boris who is obviously doing something right.
It's just a little 'too' much for me personally. The frames seem to be really good and I have always loved Voelkl's products. That said, I rarely moan about paintjobs and in the end, it's just another, albeit a little louder, paintjob.
dje - how's it going mate?
I understand the need to distinguish line from line and to have multiple offerings for your market, of course, and bravo to Boris who is obviously doing something right.
It's just a little 'too' much for me personally. The frames seem to be really good and I have always loved Voelkl's products. That said, I rarely moan about paintjobs and in the end, it's just another, albeit a little louder, paintjob.
dje - how's it going mate?
njaudio2010
New User
can a beginning 3.25 player use london-tour?
Howdy
just for kicks, i demoed the london-tour and decided to keep it ...as long as i keep my eyes on every ball as i hit it ; as long as i dont over-hit; and as long as play on balls of my feet all the time.. its excellent.. as remarked by all a small sweet spot and buttery feel. slices are incredible. its a bit lighter than the other players racquets so it is easier to move around. its not going to replace my Organix10-295 (now my racquet of choice) but i am going to use london-tour as my practise racquet to improve my game. by the way, i am using full-bed nat gut(klip) at 54m/52x and its a bit tight .. but just playable.. for me i probably need 52m/50x (or slightly lower) on this frame.
if becker comes out with a 18x20 london or Melbourne-light, i will give up on this frame.. but i really do like 18x20.
Howdy
just for kicks, i demoed the london-tour and decided to keep it ...as long as i keep my eyes on every ball as i hit it ; as long as i dont over-hit; and as long as play on balls of my feet all the time.. its excellent.. as remarked by all a small sweet spot and buttery feel. slices are incredible. its a bit lighter than the other players racquets so it is easier to move around. its not going to replace my Organix10-295 (now my racquet of choice) but i am going to use london-tour as my practise racquet to improve my game. by the way, i am using full-bed nat gut(klip) at 54m/52x and its a bit tight .. but just playable.. for me i probably need 52m/50x (or slightly lower) on this frame.
if becker comes out with a 18x20 london or Melbourne-light, i will give up on this frame.. but i really do like 18x20.
TennisMaverick
Banned
At one time, everyone used 65in2-68in2, 13-plus oz racquets. It didn't matter if you were an 8-year old child or a very slight woman. It just made getting the ball over the net much more difficult without instruction and years of practice.
Congrats on the London Tour. That is now my stick.
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TennisMaverick
Banned
I used Kneissl BITD, but in Summer '89, I started playing with the Blue BB Super, although they were stiffer than my White Star Pros, because I was older and felt that I needed the to go to a 92in2 from my 75in2. Unfortunately, Puma was pulling out of the USA, so I couldn't get a contract, and Estusa, was terrible the first 18 months with distribution, so I stayed with my Kneissls till they were shot. However, I hit with the Puma BB Super a few times this summer, and I actually forgot how well the older frames sliced BHs, and how much feel there is on contact. I had more contact with the stick/ball, controlling the ball better than with my PB 10 Mid, although, they are quite similar, but, the drop in pace sometimes hurt me--even if I hit deep--because my guys would just tee-off. If I adjusted and got more air on the ball with a little more spin, then I kept them off me, which is how I played BITD. There is an advantage with the slice, as I can really carve the outside of the ball when returning high kick serves on the ad side and hit lefty CC FHs, short-angle CC, which turns their attack into a weakness. I can't do that with even the PB 10 Mid. My feeling is that I can do it with the London Tour, but I haven't returned serve with it in a competitive situation yet, so I cannot state that with conviction.
As the sticks have become more powerful, and as I've aged, I hit flatter, since the sticks allow it and flat deep drives kill topspin, plus, hitting heavy topspin, kills the hitter's legs, and short balls, get put away easily. It is interesting that I felt the BB Super to be too stiff in the mid-80's, but hardly stiff--more firm only--today. The ball really sinks into the string bed with the Super, and that is why I said that it is similar to the PB 10 Mid, but better. I tried to convince Volkl to recess the cross string grommets in the London Tour as they did with the Melbourne, but the mold adjustment was too costly, so they softened the Tour to get the same effect. Fortunately, the DC provides needed pop in a soft frame. The Melbourne, really feels VERY similar to the BB Super: firm on contact; long cupping dwell time; great plow thru; and slightly better racquet face response, so it is slightly better at net. So...after my long-winded answer to put things in-context, the Puma BB Super is definitely doable to play with today, if strung with a responsive multi or gut.
Back Stateside?
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TennisMaverick
Banned
I finally got this thing dialed in. I lost a few grams, redistributed it, and it now plays the way that I need it to at 375 grams, 21 grams less than my PB 10, and lighter than any frame I've ever used. The softness of this frame with the DC and 18x20 string bed, makes this a real mean stick. Unless I unload for too much, I basically can't miss. If you have grooved strokes, take this stick out for a ride.
Agent Orynge
Professional
What if your strokes are non-grooved?
Meaghan
Hall of Fame
Then don't get this stick!
TennisMaverick
Banned
Yes, there is more spin and more pace, so I hit a heavier ball. There is less dwell time, but the ball compresses on the string bed more, so I actually have a little more feel. It is a trade-off for me, because I prefer the feel of a more traditional Volkl shaped head, but I can deal. What is remarkable, is that as soft as the PB 10 Mid is, after hitting with the Tour for a few weeks, the PB 10 Mid feels stiff.
Meaghan
Hall of Fame
Will deffo have a look at it at some stage, for now my pb10 mid is proving to be very special, I'm playing very well and my serve is very dominant, I do have to concentrate hard on my fh but my ohbh feels very natural and is still my most reliable and penetrating ground stroke.
I can imagine the positives staying relatively the same with the london tour, my main interest would be whether it serves the same as the volkl is an absolute serving dream. Also the pb10 really rips thro the air and this causes some problems on occasions with my fh. I have an older stiffer yonex that seems to just hit straight thro the ball so that even my full western fh feels much flatter and very penetrating. My prestige mids were also good in this dept, wilson rok I remember too, and this makes me start thinking about the denser pattern.....
I suppose its all about trade in the end, maybe I need a tad more weight to slow the bugger down but without affecting my serve, hmmmmm.........
Agent Orynge
Professional
I don't get the hype, that's what I don't get.
Agent Orynge,
Perhaps if you demoed the stick you would appreciate it's attributes. TM's description of the London Tour is quite accurate. I have played with Head rackets almost exclusively for 30 years and I really enjoy my conversion to Volkl. So give it a ride and share your observations. I welcome your input.
Perhaps if you demoed the stick you would appreciate it's attributes. TM's description of the London Tour is quite accurate. I have played with Head rackets almost exclusively for 30 years and I really enjoy my conversion to Volkl. So give it a ride and share your observations. I welcome your input.
Agent Orynge
Professional
sunof tennis
Professional
Maybe, but a good comparision of the two certainly would be.
Why wouldn't it? A subjective/objective comparison would gives others more input, if they were interested in both rackets. I trust you will keep an open mind.
Agent Orynge
Professional
TennisMaverick
Banned
If there were ever an issue with Volkl in the USA, it is one of the frames that I would look at. Are they livelier than they were BITD and less easier to break?
JGads
G.O.A.T.
Forgive my uncoolness, I don't know what "BITD" means, but it's a golden frame. Unique in that it's 11.6, 11.7 stock and with the small head that you can really whip when you want to, but there's a healthy 330 swingweight that simultaneously puts a good punch into the ball, always sending it deep in a very precise way. And, it's the best feeling frame I've ever experienced, full, no-frills all-graphite that puts so many of today's hollow-feeling newbies to shame. Easily the best Mid I've tried, and I've tried several. For me, it's an easier-to-handle Prestige Mid that essentially hits the same ball.
Agent Orynge
Professional
This is pretty much spot on. Maneuverable without sacrificing depth, control without sacrificing power. Sterling feel, too.
TennisMaverick
Banned
BITD: Back in the day.
I hit with the Redondo Mid a few years ago and was impressed with its feel, but cautious because of my BITD experience with the Black Ace. I had a practice partner who would break them by the third/fourth string job--they would just snap in-half--and they were also far less lively than my Kneissl White Star Pro, which was much smaller. I hit with it around the time that VSA lost the tennis division, and I was looking at both the Redondo Mid and the Kneissl Red Star, but decided to stay with Volkl. How does the BA compare to the Redondo Mid?
JGads
G.O.A.T.
I hated the Redondo, to be honest. Just too sluggish and powerless for me from the baseline. The Ace (at least this current one; never played with an older version) has a very good punch and feels crisper....
Have to say, though, that I just got back from a fun hit with a fellow TTer who got the re-issue PS85 and I was dumbfounded. Always thought my Ace was a pretty whippy frame but it felt like a log tonight when I went to it after hitting with the 85. That thing is amazingly fun. 12.5 but so maneuverable. Now I'm scratching my head.
TennisMaverick
Banned
Thanks. Good to receive first person user info. I'll definitely check-it-out if Volkl ever checks-out.
Agent Orynge
Professional
Well, I am thoroughly dumbfounded.
