BB11 SE: your opinion?

db379

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This is a new thread which I hope won't be hijacked last the last one on the same topic...

I am looking for sensible answers from people who actually played the racquet or who can give valuable info. Thanks.


I recently inquired about these bb 11 SE racquets on sale at TW... I emailed TW to ask them why they were so cheap now and if these racquets were in any way different from the very expensive version that was sold elsewhere. Here is their response...which I found rather surprising:

"Thank you for contacting Tennis Warehouse. I do not believe the Boris Becker 11 Special Edition 98 Racquets were ever $500. We currently sell them for less than the standard Becker 11 frames because they cost less to purchase from the manufacturer. "Each racquet features the same weight and balance specifications requested by Becker right down to the exact gram and millimeter." All Boris Becker 11 Special Edition 98 Racquets have the same balance and weight. You will only be able to
purchase this racquet at Tennis Warehouse.
I hope this information is helpful. Please email or call 1-800-883-6647 if you have any further questions or concerns, we will be happy to assist you."

Does it mean there different versions of the bb 11 SE, and is this one cheaper not only in price but also in performance? Anyone tried one and would care to comment on how it plays?
 
Does it mean there different versions of the bb 11 SE, and is this one cheaper not only in price but also in performance? Anyone tried one and would care to comment on how it plays?

No there are no different versions of the BB11 SE, i'm pretty sure the SE TW sells are the same as the ones in Europe, i really don't understand how these can be cheaper to purchase then the standard 11, i mean the lead is hand work by absolute precision!!! maybe TW can chime in here...
 
Ericsson, I know you tried this stick before. Could you comment on the SW issue? I mean 377 that's huge. I'm used to heavy sticks so the weight is not problem but I usually prefer my sticks more HL. Do you see room for customisation on the bb11 SE?

Also, do you prefer it to your tour 10s?
 
Ericsson, I know you tried this stick before. Could you comment on the SW issue? I mean 377 that's huge. I'm used to heavy sticks so the weight is not problem but I usually prefer my sticks more HL. Do you see room for customisation on the bb11 SE?

Also, do you prefer it to your tour 10s?

I've not hit a BB 11 SE but might buy one just to try it out. I was a big Becker fan back in the day and would curious to see how one of his current ("Old Man"????) frames compares to Pete's (Old Man Frame???). ;)

After hitting Jo11y's "J90's" (SW=405!!!) my eyes were opened a bit. Clearly, NOT a frame for someone who has less than excellent footwork or trouble 'getting the frame around' but for those who do have great feet and good batspeed, watch out! :) Why not try one? Best, CC
 
Ericsson, I know you tried this stick before. Could you comment on the SW issue? I mean 377 that's huge. I'm used to heavy sticks so the weight is not problem but I usually prefer my sticks more HL. Do you see room for customisation on the bb11 SE?

Also, do you prefer it to your tour 10s?


Hi David, first of all the SW is very high as you know and it plays high, too much for me (and 90% of this board ;-) nonetheless it is a great stick, very stable, you can penetrate the ball, serve bombs if you have the power.
I tested the racket when i was hitting with a guy with a high level, means i was on the run almost the entire time and although im quite fit i came too short to swing that beast all the time :-)
I like to play heavier sticks too but not with that SW, i trimmed my Volkls to have more batspeed, now they swing easy and smooth.
 
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I've not hit a BB 11 SE but might buy one just to try it out. I was a big Becker fan back in the day and would curious to see how one of his current ("Old Man"????) frames compares to Pete's (Old Man Frame???). ;)

After hitting Jo11y's "J90's" (SW=405!!!) my eyes were opened a bit. Clearly, NOT a frame for someone who has less than excellent footwork or trouble 'getting the frame around' but for those who do have great feet and good batspeed, watch out! :) Why not try one? Best, CC

Yes, why not try one. I'd really like to as I might like it. Even with the huge SW, it could be a nice training stick. Anyhting else would feel like a feather after this I guess :)

Only pb, in my neck of woods, I don't have the opportunity to test it, so I'll have to rely on what people like you find out when you test it. Cheers.

BTW, 405 SW sounds very high! How did it feel? I remember a few years ago I had one of my prestige classics leaded to 395g and it swung pretty heavy, but it was one of my favourites because you could just crush the ball. Had issues swinging really fast though.
 
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Hi David, first of all the SW is very high as you know and it plays high, too much for me (and 90% of this board ;-) nonetheless it is a great stick, very stable, you can penetrate the ball, serve bombs if you have the power.
I tested the racket when i was hitting with a guy with a high level, means i was on the run almost the entire time and although im quite fit i came too short to swing that beast all the time :-)
I like to play heavier sticks too but not with that SW, i trimmed my Volkls to have more batspeed, now they swing easy and smooth.

Thanks Ericsson. So I guess it's a no go for you.
 
Thanks Ericsson. So I guess it's a no go for you.

Well don't get me wrong, i had fun with the SE, and it's rock solid but too much to handle for me as my main stick thats for sure, i like mine more head light :) and i like the buttery feel of the powermax frames (as does Boris!)
I'm very curious about the reactions now you can demo it from TW
 
Very few of these were produced -- I think only 500 of these sticks worldwide.

We took a good position in them and are able to offer them at a great price.

They have all been hand tuned. We measured a bunch and the specs are spot on.

I've hit one and the plough through is exceptional -- nicest racquet I've ever hit on a backhand slice.

We have demos in stock.

Chris, TW
 
Very few of these were produced -- I think only 500 of these sticks worldwide.

We took a good position in them and are able to offer them at a great price.

They have all been hand tuned. We measured a bunch and the specs are spot on.

I've hit one and the plough through is exceptional -- nicest racquet I've ever hit on a backhand slice.

We have demos in stock.

Chris, TW


Hey Chris,

Send me a demo, please. I think you guys have my info on file, right?

Best,

CC
 
Very few of these were produced -- I think only 500 of these sticks worldwide.

We took a good position in them and are able to offer them at a great price.

They have all been hand tuned. We measured a bunch and the specs are spot on.

I've hit one and the plough through is exceptional -- nicest racquet I've ever hit on a backhand slice.

We have demos in stock.

Chris, TW
Hi Chris,

So just to clarify. The frames that TW has in inventory currently to sell are from the original 500 that were produced?

Thanks
 
I just ordered a demo and will report back here when I've had a chance to log (no pun intended!) a few hours with it on court in drilling sessions as well as competitive set/match play. CC
 
I just ordered a demo and will report back here when I've had a chance to log (no pun intended!) a few hours with it on court in drilling sessions as well as competitive set/match play. CC

I hear the Samster may be yielding one of these logs when we play our XO. I'm petrified....:)
 
Got my BB11 SE today and had a short hit with it tonight. Heckuva nice frame and didn't have any problems with the high swingweight. Two things i noticed - 1.) at this swingweight, you get the motion started and the frame will finish things and 2.) you HAVE to use a vibe dampener. Serves really well, very accurate groundstrokes with lots of spin potential - even with the 18x20 pattern and no poly. Will keep testing but definitely worth a demo if you like heavier frames.
 
CC,

did you receive your demo? We're all impatient to know what you have to say and how it compares to the K90 and KPS88...
 
CC,

did you receive your demo? We're all impatient to know what you have to say and how it compares to the K90 and KPS88...

And now for something completely different...................or is it?? :confused:

That's what I THOUGHT I'd find when I received my BB 11 SE demo from the good folks at TTW earlier in the week. Something 'completely different'. Remember, I am kind of "Old School", right? My current frame is the KPS 88: Black paint, small head, heavy weight, open string pattern, etc, etc, etc. And the BB 11 SE? I mean this thing is ORANGE, for Heaven's Sake! 98si, heavy (at least by most standards), 18x20 pattern. You get the idea. Well, read on tennis fans, because what I found just MIGHT surprise you! I know it surprised me.

Fit'n'Finish: I will admit my 'first blush' response to the BB 11 SE was not positive. I don't like the gawdy paint, and the off-set DNX material in silver seems a bit too 'Techno' in the Kraftwerk sense of the term, if you know what I mean. However the QUALITY of the paint, fit, and finish is excellent. Further the frame is, as promised, EXACTLY on spec. I won't list them here, because all you have to do is go to the link on TTW. I even took a few minutes to measure the SW. Guess what: 377. So, if you buy one, you apparently WILL get an 'exact replica' of what Boom Boom himself plays (or at least played at sometime in the recent past). I don't have the energy to keep track of these kind of things.

Prelude: There was almost NO adjustment needed in transition from my KPS 88 to the BB 11SE. Believe it or not, the two swing VERY similiarly. Even though all of my KPS 88's have been matched to a 345 SW, I actually felt the 11 SE was a bit EASIER to manuever and 'get around' during point play. While I typically agree with NBMJ when he says specs are very reliable predictors of how a frame will react in play, for some reason the Becker frame just felt more nimble to me. Go figure. So after a 15-20 minute warm up all the strokes felt 'Right as Rain', to quote the English (didn't Boris live in/maintain a residence in London for a while?) Time to get down to some tennis!

Groundstrokes: I really enjoyed hitting the BB 11SE from the ground. Off both sides I was able right away to generate good pace, plenty of spin, and most important of all, consistent depth. Bill commented almost immediately that he felt my shots were actually 'heavier' with BB 11 SE. Indeed I found the 11 SE to be noticeably more powerful than my KPS 88's, and on the FH this lead me to (at least initially) feel as though I needed to 'reign in' the shot. But with more hitting and a VERY slight adjustment of my grip to allow for more spin to control the trajectory of the ball I was back off the races. Moving along, the OHBH slice merits special mention with this frame. In particular, I really liked hitting approaches using the 11 SE because I got such consistent, nasty, 'bite' with my slice approaches. As a result, many times the volleys were MUCH easier to put away. I've historically found something very similiar with the KPS 88, Prestige mid, and other 'heavy' players' frames, so this quality may be a 'class effect', but is definitely noteworthy for all the chip and charge or s/v players still remaining out there.

Approach shots: I intentionally tried to play a bit more aggressively today and even opted to 'chip and charge' off some of Bill's second serves to try and get a sense for the 11 SE's quality on these shots (which are critical to my game). I was very pleased overall, especially (as I alluded to above) with the OHBH slice approach. While the BB has a less 'raw' feel when compared to the KPS 88 (and MUCH less 'feedback to the hand') it still offers a good sense of control and touch. I imagine deciding between the two frames when it comes to this category (where such preferences for one type of 'feel' over another is very often highly idiosyncratic amongst better players) will likely come down to a personal preference, with some preferring the Becker's more 'muted' quality (akin to the n90, if that helps you Wilson-nites, or the C10 Pro for the Volkl lovers amongst us) and others the 'immediacy' of the Pro Staff line.

Volleys: LOVE IT. Same 'set the racquet head and let the frame do the work' quality found with the KPS 88, but just a 'touch' more forgiving. This is a frame that rewards simple, solid technique. No 'swing' required folks!!! Again, Bill thought my volleys has just that little bit of extra 'stick' w/ the BB 11 SE. The frame is also EXTREMELY comfy and stable. During point/set play I was forced by Bill's strong play to tackle some half volleys and 'pick up shots', which the 11 SE handled with aplomb. Again, here I probably prefer the KPS 88's 'raw' feel, but I certainly did NOT uncover a 'limitation' (whatever that means) in terms of the Becker frame's ability to be used successfully at net.

Serves and Overheads: WOW. WOW. WOW. I didn't have a radar gun, but I may borrow one for tomorrow. "Big and nasty", those were Bill's words. I cruised through my service games today, generating pace with ease and hitting targets ALMOST as well as with my 88's. Again, for sheer MPH's I'd go with the BB. For precision and 'kick' on seconds, the 88. Filet, or well prepared Alaskan salmon? You decide. Likewise I was quickly snapping off overheads with no problema.

Conclusion: Who would have thunk it? :confused: Even though I very much liked the Volkl Tour 10Gen II and BB 11 Mid, I didn't care much at all for the 'STANDARD' edition of the BB 11 which I found 'clunky'. THIS frame, the BB 11 SE, is my friends a wholly different beast. Rock solid off the ground, stable, nimble, and possessed of plenty of 'umph' at net, it is also just plain nasty on the serve. I see why Big Boris likes this one. I would LOVE to snap the low quality string TW provides in its demos so I'd have an excuse to get Geoff to string it with my preferred set up. ;) Who knows, the mains WERE fraying a bit after two and a half hours of hitting today. :twisted:

Happy Hitting,

CC
 
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And the customary disclaimer......^^^^^

The above review was written by a life-long tennis player who is accustomed to swinging heavy frames and who, despite advancing age, is in pretty good shape and injury free. ;) Said tennis lover's PERSONAL opinion is that this frame is NOT likely best for intermediate level tennis players aspiring to improve their game. Honestly, it's probably not for most advanced players, as it is rather unique in its specifications.

With these clarifications/disclaimers made, I PERSONALLY like it a LOT. ;) You may too. Or you may just want one because they are cool, and you are a Boris Becker fan.

CC
 
Oh, and can anyone tell me if there is more DNX in this frame than found in the BB 11 MP 'Standard'. It certainly plays/feels 'stiffer' (especially in the hoop) to me.

CC
 
I promise to stop............just keep having 'after-thoughts'.........

I must also share my surprise Boris is using this puppy. I owned and played briefly with a couple of PUMA BB Supers and they played NOTHING like the BB 11 SE. :confused:

Best,

CC
 
Yes. At least the 'visible' lead @ 3/9 would be easily removable. Just peel it back........BUT, I suspect there is lead buried elsewhere on the frame. Best, CC
HAHAHAHAH so the lead is visible, LOL, real hitech there <cough>:roll:

what is different from the BB11 standard model? other than butcap? the extra DNX is nothing but added lead strips at 3/9 to make it swing higher? is that it? where is the NASA stuff CC:confused:

so basically they got a BB11 changed the butcap and added whole buch of lead, thats it? and they wanted $500 for that initially, who are they kidding?

gives a whole new meaning to the agasi tunra grip walmart edition :)
 
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HAHAHAHAH so the lead is visible, LOL, real hitech there <cough>:roll:

what is different from the BB11 standard model? other than butcap? the extra DNX is nothing but added lead strips at 3/9 to make it swing higher? is that it? where is the NASA stuff CC:confused:

so basically they got a BB11 changed the butcap and added whole buch of lead, thats it? and they wanted $500 for that initially, who are they kidding?

gives a whole new meaning to the agasi tunra grip walmart edition :)

Hey Mon,

I'm not familiar enough with the BB 11 Standard Edition to speak intelligently. I wish I had one of each to hold side by side and then compare the two.

I can say this: if FELT noticeably stiffer in the head.

CC
 
Great review, Craig. Was good meeting you today. No empirical evidence but the SE does feel like a different frame than the regular BB11 MP. Definitely more than just lead tape added here.
 
I hit with tennisntn3477's Becker 11 Special Edition today and quickly noticed some similarities and differences with the special edition vs. the standard edition:

I have not used my own BB11 Standard for several months now but I can vouch for the similar level of comfort and plush feel of the Standard and the Special Editions.

The Special definitely had more plow-through and hits a noticeably heavier ball. Slicing was easy with the Special and skids off the ground nice and low. The manueverability was less with the Special compared to the Standard. If you don't have good timing and try to do funny stuff like wrist flicking, etc. that's just not going to work with the Special edition.

I spent about 10 minutes with the BB11 Special Edition trading groundstrokes with tennisntn3477 and then put it down.
 
Hey Mon,

I'm not familiar enough with the BB 11 Standard Edition to speak intelligently. I wish I had one of each to hold side by side and then compare the two.

I can say this: if FELT noticeably stiffer in the head.

CC
there is a difference of 17grams between the two and oh yes the SE flexs at 58 while the standard is 61, so the standard is stiffer with less DNX,:confused: go figure
the normal butcap on the SE must have weighed little less since the rubber but cap on the standard BB11 weighs a bit more, the weight was shifted from the butcap towards 3/9, which is why it has a higher SW, but, not sure if the added lead is 17g me thinks at least 12g at 3/9 so maybe there is more lead that is not accounted for, hidden NASA DNX or hidden lead under bumper, CC can you peak in there, lift bumper a bit with knife

great review BTW, I was going to buy one but after the visible lead I opted against it, you saved me $159 CC thanks I owe you:)

what was it strung with NRG17g?
 
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what is different from the BB11 standard model? other than butcap? the extra DNX is nothing but added lead strips at 3/9 to make it swing higher? is that it? where is the NASA stuff CC:confused:

so basically they got a BB11 changed the butcap and added whole buch of lead, thats it? and they wanted $500 for that initially, who are they kidding?

dnx is a form of graphite not metal so the extra dnx material they are talking about is in the frame, not the lead tape.....
 
there is a difference of 17grams between the two and oh yes the SE flexs at 58 while the standard is 61, so the standard is stiffer with less DNX,:confused: go figure
the normal butcap on the SE must have weighed little less since the rubber but cap on the standard BB11 weighs a bit more, the weight was shifted from the butcap towards 3/9, which is why it has a higher SW, but, not sure if the added lead is 17g me thinks at least 12g at 3/9 so maybe there is more lead that is not accounted for, hidden NASA DNX or hidden lead under bumper, CC can you peak in there, lift bumper a bit with knife

great review BTW, I was going to buy one but after the visible lead I opted against it, you saved me $159 CC thanks I owe you:)

what was it strung with NRG17g?

Yes, it appeared to be NRG 17. I hate that stuff. It IS about to pop, after a grand total of one hitting session. Maybe Geoff will string it for me with my preferred BB Ace 18 using the "Pro" pattern? CC
 
And now for something completely different...................or is it?? :confused:

That's what I THOUGHT I'd find when I received my BB 11 SE demo from the good folks at TTW earlier in the week. Something 'completely different'. Remember, I am kind of "Old School", right? My current frame is the KPS 88: Black paint, small head, heavy weight, open string pattern, etc, etc, etc. And the BB 11 SE? I mean this thing is ORANGE, for Heaven's Sake! 98si, heavy (at least by most standards), 18x20 pattern. You get the idea. Well, read on tennis fans, because what I found just MIGHT surprise you! I know it surprised me.

Fit'n'Finish: I will admit my 'first blush' response to the BB 11 SE was not positive. I don't like the gawdy paint, and the off-set DNX material in silver seems a bit too 'Techno' in the Kraftwerk sense of the term, if you know what I mean. However the QUALITY of the paint, fit, and finish is excellent. Further the frame is, as promised, EXACTLY on spec. I won't list them here, because all you have to do is go to the link on TTW. I even took a few minutes to measure the SW. Guess what: 377. So, if you buy one, you apparently WILL get an 'exact replica' of what Boom Boom himself plays (or at least played at sometime in the recent past). I don't have the energy to keep track of these kind of things.

Prelude: There was almost NO adjustment needed in transition from my KPS 88 to the BB 11SE. Believe it or not, the two swing VERY similiarly. Even though all of my KPS 88's have been matched to a 345 SW, I actually felt the 11 SE was a bit EASIER to manuever and 'get around' during point play. While I typically agree with NBMJ when he says specs are very reliable predictors of how a frame will react in play, for some reason the Becker frame just felt more nimble to me. Go figure. So after a 15-20 minute warm up all the strokes felt 'Right as Rain', to quote the English (didn't Boris live in/maintain a residence in London for a while?) Time to get down to some tennis!

Groundstrokes: I really enjoyed hitting the BB 11SE from the ground. Off both sides I was able right away to generate good pace, plenty of spin, and most important of all, consistent depth. Bill commented almost immediately that he felt my shots were actually 'heavier' with BB 11 SE. Indeed I found the 11 SE to be noticeably more powerful than my KPS 88's, and on the FH this lead me to (at least initially) feel as though I needed to 'reign in' the shot. But with more hitting and a VERY slight adjustment of my grip to allow for more spin to control the trajectory of the ball I was back off the races. Moving along, the OHBH slice merits special mention with this frame. In particular, I really liked hitting approaches using the 11 SE because I got such consistent, nasty, 'bite' with my slice approaches. As a result, many times the volleys were MUCH easier to put away. I've historically found something very similiar with the KPS 88, Prestige mid, and other 'heavy' players' frames, so this quality may be a 'class effect', but is definitely noteworthy for all the chip and charge or s/v players still remaining out there.

Approach shots: I intentionally tried to play a bit more aggressively today and even opted to 'chip and charge' off some of Bill's second serves to try and get a sense for the 11 SE's quality on these shots (which are critical to my game). I was very pleased overall, especially (as I alluded to above) with the OHBH slice approach. While the BB has a less 'raw' feel when compared to the KPS 88 (and MUCH less 'feedback to the hand') it still offers a good sense of control and touch. I imagine deciding between the two frames when it comes to this category (where such preferences for one type of 'feel' over another is very often highly idiosyncratic amongst better players) will likely come down to a personal preference, with some preferring the Becker's more 'muted' quality (akin to the n90, if that helps you Wilson-nites, or the C10 Pro for the Volkl lovers amongst us) and others the 'immediacy' of the Pro Staff line.

Volleys: LOVE IT. Same 'set the racquet head and let the frame do the work' quality found with the KPS 88, but just a 'touch' more forgiving. This is a frame that rewards simple, solid technique. No 'swing' required folks!!! Again, Bill thought my volleys has just that little bit of extra 'stick' w/ the BB 11 SE. The frame is also EXTREMELY comfy and stable. During point/set play I was forced by Bill's strong play to tackle some half volleys and 'pick up shots', which the 11 SE handled with aplomb. Again, here I probably prefer the KPS 88's 'raw' feel, but I certainly did NOT uncover a 'limitation' (whatever that means) in terms of the Becker frame's ability to be used successfully at net.

Serves and Overheads: WOW. WOW. WOW. I didn't have a radar gun, but I may borrow one for tomorrow. "Big and nasty", those were Bill's words. I cruised through my service games today, generating pace with ease and hitting targets ALMOST as well as with my 88's. Again, for sheer MPH's I'd go with the BB. For precision and 'kick' on seconds, the 88. Filet, or well prepared Alaskan salmon? You decide. Likewise I was quickly snapping off overheads with no problema.

Conclusion: Who would have thunk it? :confused: Even though I very much liked the Volkl Tour 10Gen II and BB 11 Mid, I didn't care much at all for the 'STANDARD' edition of the BB 11 which I found 'clunky'. THIS frame, the BB 11 SE, is my friends a wholly different beast. Rock solid off the ground, stable, nimble, and possessed of plenty of 'umph' at net, it is also just plain nasty on the serve. I see why Big Boris likes this one. I would LOVE to snap the low quality string TW provides in its demos so I'd have an excuse to get Geoff to string it with my preferred set up. Who knows, the mains WERE fraying a bit after two and a half hours of hitting today. :twisted:

Happy Hitting,

CC

Great review and what is more important, spot on!
Many of this i have already posted a long time ago, glad you feel the same though im a little surprised you can actually handle this beast, who are you Craig?? :)
 
Craig has been playing tennis 30+ years and has very polished, efficient strokes. People with less experience and/or less polished games will simply wear themselves out trying to use a frame with this type of specs.

For example, I would not last for more than 45 minutes with the Special Edition.
 
samster, I have been playing tennis for 30 plus years, sometimes you have bad days. Like today, I was just aweful. I had to put down my KPS88 and go back to my usual PT630 to make it respectable.

It was strung with Pacific Prime 17g which I thought was the best string for this frame. I was sick and just had crown work done on my teeth. Today was a bad day i almost smashed my KPS88 and cut out a NEW $50 setup.

Frames that are this demanding will punish you really hard if you are off.
 
Did y'all do the "big picture" look at the BB SE 11? Does kind of tickle me that Boris Becker would offer the frame at $500+ and the cuts on the lead aren't even square...makes you wonder who was doing the work.
 
samster, I have been playing tennis for 30 plus years, sometimes you have bad days. Like today, I was just aweful. I had to put down my KPS88 and go back to my usual PT630 to make it respectable.

It was strung with Pacific Prime 17g which I thought was the best string for this frame. I was sick and just had crown work done on my teeth. Today was a bad day i almost smashed my KPS88 and cut out a NEW $50 setup.

Frames that are this demanding will punish you really hard if you are off.

Yep....the older you get, the more you'd better get used to bad days. But, those bad days just make the good ones even sweeter. I had a hit with a youngster Friday. We drilled indoors for a couple of hours. Toward the end of the hit, we really opened up. I was clocking the ball. I finally figured out that with my grip, I'm just not going to be a Nads. And I reinforced the notion that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a ball hit with moderate top and flatter trajectory. It does take time away from your opponent... :)
 
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