Beating the pusher with a semi-western/western FH

[Deep]

I lost a few sets today to the pusher/dinker player today using my typical eastern FH grip. There were times when I did hit some good shots, but like usual, my misses were just low into the net or long.

I decided to experiment and said screw it. I'm a hard hitter and like to play a lot of topspin. So I switched to the semi-western/western FH..and it worked so awesome. I'm one who loves to pounce on these dink/no pace shots.

With my previous eastern FH grip, my FH shots would go just low of the net or be just out on these no-pace/dink returns. As soon as I switched to the semi-western/western FH grip and swung hard I was just killing these no-pace dinks.

It took a lot more snap and power, but the consistency was so much better. What do you guys think?

 

[FrisbeeFool]

Maybe a more extreme grip works better for you? I'd say use whatever grip works the best for you and stay it. If your put-away shots are going long, maybe don't go for a winner. Hit a solid approach shot and come to the net?

 

[TeflonTom]

beatin pushers is about tactics not really style

seems like the grip mostly just suited u better n thats why u executed more effectively and won

no rule that says sw is better for beatin pushers. in fact if anythin i find pushers struggle more with flat/slice than topspin. bottom line is that best way to win is to play ur best tennis with whatever style suits u best, n just execute smart tactics

 

[Failed]

You can't beat good pushers from the baseline if you are below 5.0 level. You have to beat them bringing them to the net with drop shots, opening up the court and closing in to the net, serve and volleying or counter-pushing. Basically they either make you play their game or make you change your game plan.

 

[Deep]

I didn't want to get into his lob-fest..I basically was trying to hit DTL and cross court. Not much pace, but plenty of spin..worked perfect. One thing I see is with the SWFH/WFH is that you need to swing pretty hard.

 

[tank_job]

usually pushers themselves use full western grips, so they can lob the baseline with plenty of topspin and push you back so you can't attack.

 

[Limpinhitter]

I lost a few sets today to the pusher/dinker player today using my typical eastern FH grip. There were times when I did hit some good shots, but like usual, my misses were just low into the net or long.

I decided to experiment and said screw it. I'm a hard hitter and like to play a lot of topspin. So I switched to the semi-western/western FH..and it worked so awesome. I'm one who loves to pounce on these dink/no pace shots.

With my previous eastern FH grip, my FH shots would go just low of the net or be just out on these no-pace/dink returns. As soon as I switched to the semi-western/western FH grip and swung hard I was just killing these no-pace dinks.

It took a lot more snap and power, but the consistency was so much better. What do you guys think?

The point is that if you play someone who doesn't take much risk, and you can't count on him to commit many unforced errors, then, unless you are so much better than him that you can put away his pushes and dinks on a high percentage basis, you have to be patient and steady enough to work the point until you have a high percentage opportunity to attack. It a SW grip makes you steadier and/or makes your put-aways easier to execute, then that's a good way to accomplish it.

 

[Limpinhitter]

I didn't want to get into his lob-fest..I basically was trying to hit DTL and cross court. Not much pace, but plenty of spin..worked perfect. One thing I see is with the SWFH/WFH is that you need to swing pretty hard.

When you swing hard, do it with your upper body rotation, and keep your arm and grip relaxed. Upper body rotation is a very repeatable motion with few variables. Swinging hard with your arm leads to inumerable, unaccounted variations in your swing path, which will lead to less control and more UE's.

PS: BTW, when you do accelerate your rotation, delay that acceleration until just before contact. Don't try to accelerate from the back of your backswing.

 

[Deep]

I've been really enjoying playing with the SWFH/WFH last few weeks. It has been a godsend playing against the dinkers lately. It may not have much pace against them, but it sure gets the message across. I love just smacking it high and making the ball drop. I have to say it is a fairly aggressive swing that needs full commitment..no half-assing it right?

 

[martini1]

You can't beat good pushers from the baseline if you are below 5.0 level. You have to beat them bringing them to the net with drop shots, opening up the court and closing in to the net, serve and volleying or counter-pushing. Basically they either make you play their game or make you change your game plan.

Good general tactics I could agree on, until you meet a pusher who is also a spin doctor who slices everything like the local deli shop. Very hard to deal with when they can slice back those drops shots with angel. Unless your drop shots are like Federer's.

 

[charliefedererer]

Good general tactics I could agree on, until you meet a pusher who is also a spin doctor who slices everything like the local deli shop. Very hard to deal with when they can slice back those drops shots with angel. Unless your drop shots are like Federer's.

Agreed.

Low bouncing slices will be harder to hit with a western grip.

 

[tank_job]

Agreed.

Low bouncing slices will be harder to hit with a western grip.

But why do people say this?

If you have a western grip and put a lot of topspin on the ball, you should be able to hit even these low balls hard because the spin will lift them up over the net, and then back down inside the court again.

If you have an eastern forehand, you will be forced to hit a very risky shot close to the net, and you can't hit it as hard because you can put less spin on it...

 

[mightyrick]

But why do people say this?

If you have a western grip and put a lot of topspin on the ball, you should be able to hit even these low balls hard because the spin will lift them up over the net, and then back down inside the court again.

They say it because the shot is DIFFICULT. The optimal contact point for a Western or Semi-Western is not at the calves. This is a tough shot that requires you to bend substantially to get under it. It also requires hitting harder to get the pop necessary to get the ball over.

If you have an eastern forehand, you will be forced to hit a very risky shot close to the net, and you can't hit it as hard because you can put less spin on it...

Actually, no. This is not risky at all for an Eastern. I have an Eastern forehand. Hitting a shot 10 inches above the ground isn't that bad. BTW, an Eastern gripper hits pretty close to the tape regardless of their contact point.

Conversely, if I get a high ball, that is a MUCH tougher shot for an Eastern gripper (as opposed to a Western hittter).

All of the grips have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[anubis]

I struggle against moonballers. I played a match earlier in the week against some ladies that hit moonballs every shot. 99% of my returns went right into the net. That's why moonballers are successful at lower levels, I guess.

In the end I just dinked it back... played their own game. It was the only way to have a rally lasting longer than 2 shots.

 

[tank_job]

I played a moonballer today, spent an entire evening smacking backhands crosscourt at head height - used it as high backhand practice. I have a sw 1hbh and western fh, so I match up well against moonballers.

One thing I notice is that although moonballers obviously like to make you hit high balls, they cannot handle high balls, or heavy topspin well. They start making errors when the ball is jumping up on them.

So I just made sure to whip upwards on my backhand, sent it cross-court, got the ball kicking up high on him and drew the error from him. I was not even trying to hit winners. Since I beat the moonballer by forcing him into error, I guess I 'out-pushed' him...?

Then I played a big-serving flat-hitter and got my ass handed to me. And I know that this guy has lost to the moonballer I just beat. Different match-ups. (I get no time to set up my backhand against the big-hitter, and my return of serve stinks, partially because of my backhand grip).

 

[ATP100]

If you ever hit with a "good pusher" in your area, you should try to hit with him as much as possible.

I know it is hard to believe, buy you will learn more hitting with him than hitting as hard as you can with your friends back and forth.

 

[charliefedererer]

If you ever hit with a "good pusher" in your area, you should try to hit with him as much as possible.

I know it is hard to believe, buy you will learn more hitting with him than hitting as hard as you can with your friends back and forth.

Great advice!

Tennis is more than trading hard topspin shots.

Having at least one pusher among your hitting partners is great for your game, particularly if they are masters of slice and placement.

The best medicine is often the most bitter.

 

[cork_screw]

You need to slowly draw them off the court. Be patient. And then come into the net. Don't over commit when you come to the net. A lot of pushers' first instinct is to lob. So that is usually the reaction you get when you come to net. I like to stand around the service box line just in case they try to lob me. If I get a easy shot it's a close in and a put away volley, if it's a lob, I retreat a bit then hit an overhead. Just remember your overhead doesn't have to necessarily win you the point just redirect it away so they are back in a difficult position so maybe you get an easy volley. Some people try to go roddick on overhead and hit it long or into the net and that's what the pusher wants. Move the pusher, that is the main key to beating pushers. Angles over power, angles over power...

 

[RJR]

If you ever hit with a "good pusher" in your area, you should try to hit with him as much as possible.

I know it is hard to believe, buy you will learn more hitting with him than hitting as hard as you can with your friends back and forth.

Played my first tourney ever, yesterday. Was taken out by a "good pusher." Learned a ton about my strategic weaknesses because, unlike a lot of my standard hitting partners, he NEVER beat himself. When I did have success it was about consistency and patience. Hope to meet him again in a few weeks.

 

[mightyrick]

Played my first tourney ever, yesterday. Was taken out by a "good pusher." Learned a ton about my strategic weaknesses because, unlike a lot of my standard hitting partners, he NEVER beat himself. When I did have success it was about consistency and patience. Hope to meet him again in a few weeks.

Congrats on your first tourney. The "good pusher" is a good first opponent. If there's one thing a pusher does, it is that they teach you about your own game. You probably learned a lot.

The next time you meet a pusher, you'll probably try to "out consistency" or "out patience" him. That's usually the second step that people have to go through. (Usually results in a loss).

Make no mistake, unless you are a pusher also, you will need a developed weapon to beat this type of a player. I guarantee you will not beat them at their own game -- unless you are one of them.

 

[Frank Silbermann]

I lost a few sets today to the pusher/dinker player today using my typical eastern FH grip. There were times when I did hit some good shots, but like usual, my misses were just low into the net or long.

I decided to experiment and said screw it. I'm a hard hitter and like to play a lot of topspin. So I switched to the semi-western/western FH..and it worked so awesome. I'm one who loves to pounce on these dink/no pace shots.

With my previous eastern FH grip, my FH shots would go just low of the net or be just out on these no-pace/dink returns. As soon as I switched to the semi-western/western FH grip and swung hard I was just killing these no-pace dinks.

It took a lot more snap and power, but the consistency was so much better. What do you guys think?

That's why I consider the semi-wester / western grips to be a kind of cheating. If offers you a significant amount of cheap topspin and power that you didn't really earn (as contrasted with, say, Rod Laver, who developed power and heavy topspin with a Continental grip).

But why do people say (that it's harder to hit low balls with a wetern grip)?

If you have a western grip and put a lot of topspin on the ball, you should be able to hit even these low balls hard because the spin will lift them up over the net, and then back down inside the court again.

If you have an eastern forehand, you will be forced to hit a very risky shot close to the net, and you can't hit it as hard because you can put less spin on it...

It's harder with a Western grip because you have to get down so low to lift them up with massive spin. That's one reason why today's pros are so much more dependent on leg strength and cardiovascular fitness than top players sixty years ago. With an Eastern grip (or better yet, a continental grip) all you need to do when handling a low ball is to hit more softly.

 

[rkelley]

If you have an eastern forehand, you will be forced to hit a very risky shot close to the net [on a low ball - RK], and you can't hit it as hard because you can put less spin on it...

I would disagree with this statement. The big topspin of modern strokes is a function of the swing path. You can use any grip between an Eastern and Western to get this done.

 

[RJR]

Congrats on your first tourney. The "good pusher" is a good first opponent. If there's one thing a pusher does, it is that they teach you about your own game. You probably learned a lot.

The next time you meet a pusher, you'll probably try to "out consistency" or "out patience" him. That's usually the second step that people have to go through. (Usually results in a loss).

Make no mistake, unless you are a pusher also, you will need a developed weapon to beat this type of a player. I guarantee you will not beat them at their own game -- unless you are one of them.

Hooray! I've already made it to step two then! I got lured into playing his game...I'm just not as good at it! Started to have more success stepping in, catching the ball early, trying to rush him a bit. Too little, too late. Need to find a partner like him because I'm guessing I'll see more than a few of them at the 3.5 level.

 

[Larrysümmers]

Hooray! I've already made it to step two then! I got lured into playing his game...I'm just not as good at it! Started to have more success stepping in, catching the ball early, trying to rush him a bit. Too little, too late. Need to find a partner like him because I'm guessing I'll see more than a few of them at the 3.5 level.

ohhhhh yeahhhh

 

[DeShaun]

usually pushers themselves use full western grips, so they can lob the baseline with plenty of topspin and push you back so you can't attack.

I've taken my lumps against these guys in tournaments. Fantastic retrievers, but also, they hit their forehands with above average amounts though not a ton of topspin and deep down the middle all day long- it's what they seemed to excel at. Nothing that you would consider a heavy shot but spun with just enough top that these guys are seemingly thinking very actively about the flight path that their ball will take with an eye towards ensuring that it travels with higher than normal net clearance than what you might have been accustomed to when dealing with your typical opponents' ground strokes- but not technically a moon ball, and it lands deep every time and bounces such that you must either take it on the rise at some risk or you must stay well behind your baseline. It's losing to guys like these which encouraged me practice my forehand lobs this past year so that I will be able to trade with them the next time without losing focus or my technique breaking down after say six or seven rally strokes.