Beijing 2017 final: Rafael Nadal vs Nick Kyrgios

Rafa or Nick


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I don't buy into this prime thing. Today Rafa is #1 with 2 GS and a number of other tournaments. Roger is just behind also with 2 GS and a few other tournaments. They are both at an incredible level of tennis. I was watching the 2008 Wimby final, and I don't think Rafa and Roger are worst players today. It even looks like Fed moves faster today! And actually Nadal' serve and BH are more efficient today.Roger's BH is much better today.
The only years Nadal has been competitive on serve with this year are 2010 and 2013 on hard courts. Claydal2017 right up there with 2012 and 2008 versions. Combine his both 2017 clay and hard performances plus the impending end of year run and it will be his best year if we ignore grass.:confused:

Federer is similarly excellent, but if his back dogs him the rest of the year this would just be like a prime year, not a "peak" year (2004-2007). At this point Fed would have to decisively sweep his remaining events to even think of peak at this point. He had the potential to hit that over this hard court season, but went belly up at the last gasp.:rolleyes:

Most of the "experts" on TTW look at movement alone and of course these two moved better when they were younger (age 23-24), but the game has become much more about power and better developed serving plus more. Most of these things don't reveal themselves until you look at the stats. Nadal on clay this year was insane; 57% 2nd serve points won for career, but 2017 was 65% and a whopping 75% at RG.:eek:o_O That is crazy stuff and bodes very well for Nadal's longevity as unlike most veterans his serve had been falling apart late in his career. The reversal in his serve numbers in 2017 is nothing short of stunning. The TTW arm chair "experts" are by in large oblivious to this and get their rocks off watching long neutral rallies or something.:rolleyes:
 
The only years Nadal has been competitive on serve with this year are 2010 and 2013 on hard courts. Claydal2017 right up there with 2012 and 2008 versions. Combine his both 2017 clay and hard performances plus the impending end of year run and it will be his best year if we ignore grass.:confused:

Federer is similarly excellent, but if his back dogs him the rest of the year this would just be like a prime year, not a "peak" year (2004-2007). At this point Fed would have to decisively sweep his remaining events to even think of peak at this point. He had the potential to hit that over this hard court season, but went belly up at the last gasp.:rolleyes:

Most of the "experts" on TTW look at movement alone and of course these two moved better when they were younger (age 23-24), but the game has become much more about power and better developed serving plus more. Most of these things don't reveal themselves until you look at the stats. Nadal on clay this year was insane; 57% 2nd serve points won for career, but 2017 was 65% and a whopping 75% at RG.:eek:o_O That is crazy stuff and bodes very well for Nadal's longevity as unlike most veterans his serve had been falling apart late in his career. The reversal in his serve numbers in 2017 is nothing short of stunning. The TTW arm chair "experts" are by in large oblivious to this and get their rocks off watching long neutral rallies or something.:rolleyes:

Thanks Meles to put down in stats some general thoughts. Yep absolutely incredible what lonjevity is doing to these two men. And then there is one factor that is hard to measure, but must be taken into the count:
Experience.
Always comparing the 2008 Winby final with today, Nadal's and Fed's game was much more 'obvious' than it is today. The tactical part of their game has absolutely improved. And this, while difficult to measure, is heavy in terms of results.
 
I think with Nick he was gauging how Rafa was playing and when he saw that he was on fire and he wasn’t able to make a dent in his game he saw the writing on the wall and didn’t bother to fight with Rafa for the victory. He’s a a guy that if he can’t win easy he’s not going to battle you and dig deep for the win.
that doesn't explain his very close encounters against Federer with both wins and losses for both going either way.

unless you're saying that NK always thought he could beat Federer in their encounters, but not Nadal this time (China Open final).
 
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