Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by FastFreddy, Aug 25, 2008.
List how much you can bench.
345 lbs. in 2002 and currently, around 275, but I don't practice on the bench anymore. I took 2 years off from weight training and I was able to flat bench 225 lbs. the first time I tried it again so I'm pretty sure that I could once again bench over 315 if I practiced. These days, I prefer to do dips in the park and I can do a lot of them due to my strong presses from back in the day.
dips kill your shoulders, dont do them
Deep dips are tough on the shoulders for beginners, but trust me, I'm no beginner. I'm extremely strong in the pressing department and although, deep dips (dips beyond parallel) are not recommended for beginners, I'm pretty sure a guy like me is safe. Remember, I was able to bench 3 plates on each side and I could dip with 3/45 lb. plates in between my legs so your advice doesn't apply to men of my strength.
how about weight too?
and power clean, squat and deadlift
i bench 155 for 5, maybe 175 for 1
i weight 175
i power clean 165, squat maybe 250-270 (i dont max), and deadlift 290 for 5, so maybe 310-315 for 1?
Here are my best bench numbers at certain body weight.
158 benched 225
170 benched 300
185 benched 340
192 benched 365
206 benched 385
213 benched 405
223 benched 425
Now I still can put up 385 at 209, but I benching is wrecking my right shoulder again. So I do 285 for 15 reps 3 sets. I have too get a mri on my shoulder this week I think I tore it up on the tennis court 3 weeks ago hitting a high two hand backhand and hurt it again this past weekend on the backhand again. I already had two rotator cuff surgery one one the left and one on the right. I think I need another one on the right or lots of pt and no more bench and switch to a one hand backhand.
You're a big mofo. Why don't you cut back on the bench weight if you have shoulder problems? I had to stay away from presses altogether a couple of years ago and my shoulders feel good now. My right shoulder was hurting badly from serving so I cut back on the tennis and didn't weight train at all. Sometimes rest is the answer.
Ha maybe they kill you, I've never had problems with them, and I do them deep, always. These are not for everybody
Hey I've been wanting to know for a long time now, if deep dips are bad for your shoulders or whatever, because I have always done them deep. I'm 19, but for like 2-3 years I have been doing them and not doing them, I always did them deep, and I never felt problems anywhere whatsoever, but then I've read in many places that it's bad to do them deep, and since I have never felt anything, I wonder if they ment in the long run or something?
Oh but I always do them without weights, don't like weights.
Same thing for deep bench dips, have you ever done them? I also read that those are bad too, but again I do them deep and it feels good. What do you think?
Well, the most I ever benched was 97 lbs. I think, LOL! But I didn't get into that exercise
The more flexible you are, the less dangerous they are for you. Take gymnasts for example. High level gymnasts can do a full split without any problems at all, but someone who isn't used to all that dynamic and static stretching would not come close to a full split. Depth on dips depends a lot on the individual and not on the generalization that deep dips are bad for the shoulders. If we follow that philosophy, we shouldn't weight train at all because something's gonna get strained sooner or later. If you're comfortable doing deep dips, don't worry about it.
umm... no my physical therapist who was helping me rehab my surgically repaired shoulder told me that. Lowering yourself in the dip exercise brings the humerus way out in front, and it's not ideal. The major benefit of the dip exercise is the triceps, why dont you just do a normal tricep routine.
Incline bench is also bad on the shoulder, especially bad on your biceps. It leaves your bicep tendon exposed.
and i bench 175 @12, 195 @ 10, 215 @ 8 for now...
It's meaningless if you dont mention how much you weigh (a bigger person can definitely bench more). I'm 140lbs
i can only do 140-145.....im 6'2" 200lbs....... and apparently very weak
I used to train a physical therapist, son. Your PT does not know more than I do about exercises. Rehab, perhaps, exercises, no.
BTW, I do dips as a chest exercise.
I never cared for bench but my max was 205.
but my power clean is at 300 at 185 body weight. I competed in school and beat out every weight class, next closest was 285.
damn SON, dont gotta be all defensive and gloat. Just trying to share my experience say that dip puts unnecessary stress on your shoulders. If i'm correct, and please do correct me if i'm wrong son. Rehab is all about restoration and maintenance. One must know a good deal about the complexity of a joint and know what to lock on, and what to avoid in order to restore and maintain function.
Just out of curiosity, do you actually have a degree as a PT and have you actually helped someone with rehab?
I was certified by ACE, and Apex which is a division of NASM. One of my clients was a physical therapist and although she knew more about bodyparts than I did, I knew how to exercise those bodyparts better than she did although I wouldn't doubt that she knew more when it came to rehabilitating injured muscles and joints. Anything else you'd like to know, son?
nope, that would be all thank you. Dont try to get into people's faces just cause they're trying to share something son
Yeah, I'm flexible enough to do them deep, I've never had shoulder problems before, until now though (but that was from doing something else, which will go unmentioned due to it's great stupidity...) but anyways, even with that shoulder nuisance I'm having right now, it doesn't bother me still.
This pain used to be in my shoulder, where it connects with the arm, and since I started doing exercises, like push ups and just bodyweight exercises, it seems it has started to move upwards and now I feel it in my clavicule, near my neck. What the hell?
I don't remember exactly how I got that pain, but my guess would be that first I may have got it from playing too much resident evil 4, because when those zombies grab you, you have to move the left analog stick left and right really fast, and since I played many hours and got caught many times, I did that left-to-right motion too many times and that's when it all started hurting, I couldn't do any shot when I played tennis, it felt like my arm would break off. So I rested from tennis, began doing exercises and suddenly the pain disappeared, but now it came back somehow, but I think it could have been from swinging a dumbbell bar.
I've seen some articles and videos by this trainer guy Tom Purvis, and he too says dips are awful for the shoulders.
But I've never heard incline bench press is bad for shoulders, or biceps. (DE-cline maybe.) Anyone know about this claim?
Listen, Say Lo, you went off about how dips kill your shoulders and not to do them when this thread wasn't even about dips. You took a direct shot at me and not the other way around. Dips are a chest exercise so your advice about doing bench dips was very bad for those who want to do dips as a chest enhancer. It's always a good idea to do some research before you give questionable advice. If you don't want to research your advice, save the advice giving for the professionals.
hey did you read my post to you?
Cal, I never met Purvis in person, but I met guys who trained directly under him at NASM and I'm not talking about his clients. Purvis was the inventor of the 6 steps to exercise utilized by NASM. You probably saw this guy in those bowflex commercials. He's the guy who points at the exercisers' bodyparts and says
"look at those muscles working!". Purvis left NASM to work with Bowflex. I'd suspect Purvis is promoting some Bowflex exercise if he says dips are bad for you. Purvis is known as Mr. alterior motive.
Trasher, don't worry about it. Deep dips are fine for guys like us. Stop playing that zombie game.
No, it wasn't related to bowflex. He had his owns series of videos about his theories of safe and effective lifting technique and training. I think I have some of them around. If I recall, the exercises he thought were bad for you were dips, behind the neck pulldowns, maybe sled leg press -- incline leg press was ok, though -- and possibly decline presses. Also some other machines or exercises that I can't recall now that he believed made your muscles/joints move in unhealthy ways.
I talked to him on the phone once years ago. He seemed like a enthusiastic guy who was passionate about encouraging safe and effective training. He may be wrong in his beliefs, or a shyster of some sort, but he seemed geniune.
Yeah, I don't play it anymore! LOL. Good game though
umm... look back and i only commented about dips. Then you went on to say how you know more than my PT (an attack at my PT?), I'm grateful for my PT so yeah, I would defend him... and dont son me, son
That's when i went on to ask for your credential
Also, i didnt say anything about "bench dips", i've never even heard of it (yeah i'm no professional)
It's always a good idea to do some reading before you do some questionable accusations. If you dont want to read closely, save the advice giving for those who's been through it. Really bad if you're a professional.
back to bench pressing
500lb way back in the 90's, but probably couldn't do 315lb now due to no free weights in last 6 years.
You big guys bring images of Lou Ferrigno running around the courts with a palm size racket.
Weight is also meaningless without a person's height. For example,
my skinny frog arms and frog legs make me lighter than other people
that are my height.
I also met Tom Purvis back in 1995 when I got my NASM advanced personal trainer cert. Cool guy alot of people goof on him at because of bowflex thing but you would sell everything if they give you the money. I also had certs from ACE, ACSM, ISMA, NFTA, NSCA, Keiser power pacer spinning instructor and a cert in active isolated stretching from Phil Warton. My friend benched 500 at 325 no roids and a roided trainer did 365 at 135 that's 2.68 percent of his body weight.
I first tore up my right shoulder in Junior A hockey not bench and that finished my hockey career. Got it fixed and all was good back to heavy benching then playing tennis with my friend Dave who played #5 for Duke. When I first played him he beat me by 1-2 breaks. Two years later I could beat him two breaks but I tore up my left shoulder to beat him not a good trade off. Clay might be good for your knees but its hell on your shoulder.
Hitting 8-12 shoulder height or higher balls instead of 5-8 balls waist to chest height balls on hard court.
No more clay tennis for me. I rested my shoulder for 3 weeks no bench and hitting one hand backhands no two handers. I started hitting the two hander last week then kept the bench at 285 all was good then I messed it my this past weekend hitting a two handed top spin lob. I will rest it for 6 weeks or just get it looked at this week I think I really tore it up again.
I guess I shouldn't play any more against 25 year old Div one players since my 35 year old body can't keep up any more.(my shoulder) I put these two guys on one side of the court and me on the other side and played some games and drills. I reached for a high backhand which was not hard but I reached out in front of me and heard something pop and give out in my right shoulder. I tried to hit a two hander after that but my arm would give out. Its funny I can still serve but my arm doesn't like going across my body. I been doing my pt before I lift or play tennis I hope I didn't rip up something else in my right shoulder.
OK, Chin Lo; my fault on the bench dips. I should have stated that dips are used more often as a chest exercise than as a tricep exercise. Sure you involve triceps, but so does every pressing exercise. Why would you recommend doing tricep alternatives when most people do dips as a chest exercise? That's what made me curious.
Question for the experts...what are the advantages/ disadvantages of using dumbells for bench press instead of the bar+plates?
With the barbell, your hands are in a fixed position so your range of motion is more limited. You also need a spotter when attempting a very heavy weight, but with the dumbbells you can just drop them if you need. I actually used dumbbells to improve my bar press. I often worked out without a spotter so I used heavy dumbbells for safety. My barbell press went up dramatically as a result of dumbbell training. Barbell presses are actually easier to do lb. for lb. because the bar is easier to balance. For example, I could press 315 on the bar for 2 reps, but only 125 on the dumbbells. Simple arithmetic would say that I should be able to dumbbell press 155-160 lb. dumbbells, but because of the balancing act, I probably couldn't have done them. I say probably because 125 were the heaviest dumbbells in the gym where I used to work so it's hard to say for certain. Either way, dumbbell presses are more difficult to do than barbell presses P4P. To recap: The barbell can be used with heavier weights than with dumbbells and it's a good way to develop pressing power. The drawback is that you'd need a spotter when using heavy weights. Dumbbells are good for a deeper stretch at the bottom and top of the movement. You also don't need a spotter with dumbbells. A drawback is that you can't go as heavy because of the difficulty in balancing dumbbells. Most gyms don't carry huge dumbbells for extremely strong members.
Thanks for the feedback
I think you do sort of need a spotter for dumbbells, at least I would like one. I feel I could bench more weight than I could comfortably pick up and swing into position, you know?
Plus, dropping dumbbells on the floor isn't not always appreciated or practical.
All the guys I seen over the years are strong on dumbells and weaker at barbell or the other waty around.
I am strong at barbell and stink at dubbell it comes down to which one you do more of. Most people get better at one than forgot about the other one. You can do both and get strong at both switch every other workout. If you want to go heavy on bench and can't find a good spotter at the gym use the smith machine thats what I use since my two shoulder tears.
with dumbells, both sides are having to work independently so all the muscles are being worked equally.
The barbell also works both sides equally, but not on most Smith machines. Some Smiths have independent left and right movement, but most just go straight up and down so you can cheat on one side. Dumbbells and the barbell bench press do not allow cheating on one side. I have a slight preference for the bar, but dumbbells are very good too.
Actually Rickson, the dip can be used to emphasize either the chest or the triceps, depending on your body position. I'm sure you already know this, but for some of the others, if you lean forward when doing dips, you emphasize the pecs; if you keep your body more upright, you'll emphasize the triceps.
You get the chest involved even if you're upright. I do dips for 3 bodyparts; the chest, triceps, and deltoids. On chest day, I tend to lean forward like you said. On delt day, I go straight up and down and do not lock out. On tricep training, I make sure to lock out the elbows.
Question to everyone, the strength you gain from benching dumbells, does that strength translate to bar bench?
For some reason, that doesn't happen to me. But my bar benching strength increase my overall strength in all exercise...
i currently bench 270lbs using 4sec negatives though. could be higer if it were regular. my weight is 240. don't go past the bar being parallel to the chest.
warm ups are 225lbs for 17-19 reps regular.
I do something like 80-100 lbs for the first set, depending on how wussy I'm feeling. Then I build. Second set is usually about 130-140 lbs. at 8 reps. Third set is typically 160-170 range for 6-8 reps. If I've feeling studly I'll do a few reps at 180 or so, but usually NOT.
I only bench a few times each month, but do dips twice per week. The problem I have with benching is my pecs can overpower my back muscles and my tennis is RUINED. I don't find having a big strong chest contributes anything to stroke production. One needs to only look at FED and Rafa for confirmation of the validity of that view, IMHO.
Very smart not letting the bar go past parallel. When you lift you should have a 90 degree bend at your elbow to your forearm and a 90 degree from your elbow to your side of your body at the bottom of the lift. Remember Andre could bench 300 at 170 you says bench can't hurt your strokes.
The only time weight lifting doesnot work for sports is when the player just adds lifting on top of all their training. Over training is too much volume and risk of injury. Then they say weight training didn't help them. You have to replace some of your hitting time with weights so not to get stale and feel fresh and get stronger not tried.
You also want to figure out if you want to lift on the days you play your sport. I always lift or bike before hockey but for tennis I like to bike or jump rope some times if lift before a match but it could make you too pumped or tired before your match and mess with your feel.
If I may ask, how much do you weigh? I get the impression from reading your posts that you probably don't weigh much more than 180. If you're benching your body weight for reps, you must be in about the 98th percentile or so for men your age. That's pretty impressive.
What's a bench press?
This morning I was 170 lbs. I've been lifting since I was 8 years old. From age 29 to 32 I was heavily into power lifting. I still lift two days per week, unless I'm not playing tennis, in which case it's three days per week.
We have a guy at my gym who is 70 something, a bit shorter than me and about 185 pounds. He does reps with 225 like he was lifting fly paper. There are lots of strong guys out there, though few of them are over 50.
I don't know what percentile I'm in lifting wise and would like to know. Do you have a cite for that 98th percentile?
I do know that most tennis players my age don't lift much, if at all. And many males over 50 are NOT lifting despite the widespread advice to do so.
By the way, I saw my orthopedic surgeon two days ago and he told me that I was the fittest guy he's seen in a month. Although I've had guys ask me if I were on 'the patch' (androgel or similar) because I'm so lean, I was chuffed to monkeys when the ortho made that comment. Now, can he fix my lousy back?
Anyway, yeah, I hear you. Anyone can say anything on the net. Take it all cum granula salis unless they are willing to meet you in the gym, eh?
Edit: I found these records by age. 303 lbs for a 165 lb male, age 65! http://www.usapowerlifting.com/records/american/men-benchpress.htm
What is the patch, Robert?
Testosterone patch, e.g. Androgel. Look here:http://www.androgel.com/
One of the guys who plays at our club-a lawyer buddy-is on it. He has beatch teats, lots of visceral fat, and a stooped posture. I'm sure he needs it! I hope he doesn't read this!
Here's a great site I just found. LOL! Read it and weep: http://www.pipeline.com/~dada3zen/average.htm
I don't vouch for any of that information.
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