bent arm 1hb - (not what you think)

[10sbeast888]

the footwork/hip/core still does the same thing, except

- the arm instead of extending then following the core, it jabs out. so at contact the arm is still bent (slightly).
- a boxing jab has pronation, so does this jab bh.

additional points -

- no it's not an injury risk as the collision is still powered by the racket momentum.
- there is no equivalent on the fh side, as the forearm extension by itself adds RHS on the bh side, but reduces on the FH side, so there is no such thing as a jab fh;
- contact lower on the string bed for extra RHS from the pronation.

try it, not gonna rip winners, but super easy rally shot, great for rec ball.

 

[ppma]

Hahahaha.

It's even better of what I had thought. Thanks.

 

[Curious]

A wall hit video would be nice.

 

[10sbeast888]

A wall hit video would be nice.

will do when I get chance.

try it.. for your '1-3' tempo, everything is the same till the '1'... but when you do the '3', instead of ESR, you jab/punch at the ball with some pronation. contact the 3rd main from the lower edge, instead of the dead center sweet spot.

 

[Curious]

will do when I get chance.

try it.. for your '1-3' tempo, everything is the same till the '1'... but when you do the '3', instead of ESR, you jab/punch at the ball with some pronation. contact the 3rd main from the lower edge, instead of the dead center sweet spot.

I think I understand what you’re describing. The only concern is the lack of racket drop that way, though it can probably be achieved with a little push down with the off hand.

 

[Curious]

Something like this, mate?

 

[10sbeast888]

Something like this, mate?

close enough - the initial part of the '3' is also the same as your normal ESR '3', so the amount of the drop is almost the same.. the diff is once the racket head reaches the low point of the drop, instead of pulling into the ESR you just jab the fist out, with the intention of pronation-lifting the ball with the 3rd main from the lower edge.

notice how small this motion is - great for pushing in neutral, lifting one high in defense... you almost never lose balance.. the trade off is your not gonna rip winners due to the lack of ESR... but how many bh winners you'd rip anyway, the bh is a control shot.

 

[Curious]

close enough - the initial part of the '3' is also the same as your normal ESR '3', so the amount of the drop is almost the same.. the diff is once the racket head reaches the low point of the drop, instead of pulling into the ESR you just jab the fist out, with the intention of pronation-lifting the ball with the 3rd main from the lower edge.

notice how small this motion is - great for pushing in neutral, lifting one high in defense... you almost never lose balance.. the trade off is your not gonna rip winners due to the lack of ESR... but how many bh winners you'd rip anyway, the bh is a control shot.

Sounds like you’re confusing pronation and supination here unless I got it totally wrong.

 

[10sbeast888]

Sounds like you’re confusing pronation and supination here unless I got it totally wrong.

pronation - it speeds up the lower edge of the racket.

since the set up and the '1' is almost the same, very easy to decide on the fly whether you want to just jab it, or pull a full ESR shot... tbh I have been hitting this way more and more just because how little work this is

 

[Curious]

pronation - it speeds up the lower edge of the racket.

since the set up and the '1' is almost the same, very easy to decide on the fly whether you want to just jab it, or pull a full ESR shot... tbh I have been hitting this way more and more just because how little work this is

Pronation when? In the forward swing into contact or backswing/drop?

 

[Curious]

I’m not patient enough to wait for wall hit. Can’t you do a quick shadow swing video?

 

[10sbeast888]

I’m not patient enough to wait for wall hit. Can’t you do a quick shadow swing video?

lol

this is a bad lesson of 1hbh, although I still like his other videos..

the 'jab 1hb' would look like this (often), with 1 of the key points being the contact has to be low (towards the ground, not towards the handle) on the racket face.

I said (often) because you can still activate the ESR at any moment to cover the ball if needed.

 

[Curious]

lol

this is a bad lesson of 1hbh, although I still like his other videos..

the 'jab 1hb' would look like this (often), with 1 of the key points being the contact has to be low (towards the ground, not towards the handle) on the racket face.

I said (often) because you can still activate the ESR at any moment to cover the ball if needed.

Ok, I’ll wait for your video.

 

[10sbeast888]

Ok, I’ll wait for your video.

the Bryan on the far side, and the duece court dude on the near side, neither one goes crazy with the ESR... e.g. the one at 1:33 looks like what I am talking about.

 

[Curious]

the Bryan on the far side, and the duece court dude on the near side, neither one goes crazy with the ESR... e.g. the one at 1:33 looks like what I am talking about.

I see. Not much rolling of the arm(ESR). Simply swinging straight forward and up. Yeah, nice and simple. Less power and spin but less can go wrong.

 

[Jono123]

the footwork/hip/core still does the same thing, except

- the arm instead of extending then following the core, it jabs out. so at contact the arm is still bent (slightly).
- a boxing jab has pronation, so does this jab bh.

additional points -

- no it's not an injury risk as the collision is still powered by the racket momentum.
- there is no equivalent on the fh side, as the forearm extension by itself adds RHS on the bh side, but reduces on the FH side, so there is no such thing as a jab fh;
- contact lower on the string bed for extra RHS from the pronation.

try it, not gonna rip winners, but super easy rally shot, great for rec ball.

That sounds like more of a block.

 

[10sbeast888]

That sounds like more of a block.

yes the swing path is about the same as a RoS block... with some small diffs:

- for the RoS block you'd likely want to lock the elbow and just swing from the shoulder to have stability and avoid injury; and you probably don't care where the contact is on the string bed.
- for this 'jab' bh the elbow can still be extending and adding RHS. and you want to contact low on the bed so the pronation can add RHS.

isn't the bh racket path quite similar to a slice serve? and he's talking about the same contact point I am talking about.

 

[Curious]

yes the swing path is about the same as a RoS block... with some small diffs:

- for the RoS block you'd likely want to lock the elbow and just swing from the shoulder to have stability and avoid injury; and you probably don't care where the contact is on the string bed.
- for this 'jab' bh the elbow can still be extending and adding RHS. and you want to contact low on the bed so the pronation can add RHS.

isn't the bh racket path quite similar to a slice serve? and he's talking about the same contact point I am talking about.

Takao slice serve analogy and hitting on the lower part of strings suddenly clicked now!
Is this what you mean?

 

[10sbeast888]

Takao slice serve analogy and hitting on the lower part of strings suddenly clicked now!
Is this what you mean?

your on the right track.

notice this motion does open the face... the good news is that you can still activate the ESR at any moment to cover the ball... your tennis computer can handle it.

 

[Curious]

notice this motion does open the face...

I know. Just like the racket face opening (to the side) on a slice serve. I definitely see the similarity.

 

[Curious]

Pretty much zero ESR.

 

[10sbeast888]

edit

 

[10sbeast888]

Pretty much zero ESR.

yup.

so you have the options to go with/without ESR.

the ESR swing takes longer to set up, has more spin, the body opens up more... should be the option when you have time and feel confident.

the jab shot is succinct, has less spin, the body stays more side ways... great for neutral/defensive push, approach shot, RoS.

 

[Curious]

the jab shot is succinct, has less spin, the body stays more side ways... great for neutral/defensive push, approach shot, RoS.

And less error prone because it’s very compact. Why not use it on everything? Bh, fh, slices …
Someone will say what about power. Yeah, I know, aren’t we all obsessed with that?!

 

[Roforot]

the Bryan on the far side, and the duece court dude on the near side, neither one goes crazy with the ESR... e.g. the one at 1:33 looks like what I am talking about.

looks like the arm is straightened out?
I'll be honest, it looks like a normal BH.

ESR is external shoulder rotation? I'll need to compare that to what you're talking about?

 

[10sbeast888]

And less error prone because it’s very compact. Why not use it on everything? Bh, fh, slices …
Someone will say what about power. Yeah, I know, aren’t we all obsessed with that?!

in the first post I pointed out that the extension of the forearm, by itself, actually moves the racket AWAY from the ball on the fh side, so there is no such thing as a jab fh

also you can't really use supination to add RHS by contacting low on the bed... it's an awkward move..

yeah, it's a unique thing for the 1hb.

 

[10sbeast888]

looks like the arm is straightened out?
I'll be honest, it looks like a normal BH.

ESR is external shoulder rotation? I'll need to compare that to what you're talking about?

yes.

the 'tell' is that with the ESR the racket releases, to the right of the hand; without the ESR, the racket stays to the left of the hand.

The Bryans often hit somewhere in between, with a very modest ESR, so at the finish the racket is vertical above the hand.

all are valid options, depending on the situation.

 

[Curious]

in the first post I pointed out that the extension of the forearm, by itself, actually moves the racket AWAY from the ball on the fh side, so there is no such thing as a jab fh

also you can't really use supination to add RHS by contacting low on the bed... it's an awkward move..

yeah, it's a unique thing for the 1hb.

I also take the jab as a small punchy swing with a short take back, short follow through. Hence it can be applied to everything. Every time I lose badly with my ‘full’ strokes I revisit this MEP idea!

 

[10sbeast888]

I also take the jab as a small punchy swing with a short take back, short follow through. Hence it can be applied to everything. Every time I lose badly with my ‘full’ strokes I revisit this MEP idea!

I see... I made a post in the thread about directionals... if things go south on the fh side there is no need to go 'jabby', take the same full acceleration except you use the RHS to create height and spin, instead of forward pace..... this way you are still safe, but can still inject venom as may recs hate high balls.

especially on clay as the bounce is not true, it's risky for the opp to take a high looper on the bounce... so you can safely back him up.

 

[Curious]

I see... I made a post in the thread about directionals... if things go south on the fh side there is no need to go 'jabby', take the same full acceleration except you use the RHS to create height and spin, instead of forward pace..... this way you are still safe, but can still inject venom as may recs hate high balls.

especially on clay as the bounce is not true, it's risky for the opp to take a high looper on the bounce... so you can safely back him up.

I totally agree with the idea of hitting loopy, spinny groundstrokes. I just forget to think up, not forward once the match starts.

 

[Curious]

I tried to implement your jab bh yesterday. It won’t be easy to control my wild follow through it seems.

 

[10sbeast888]

I tried to implement your jab bh yesterday. It won’t be easy to control my wild follow through it seems.

no need to force it really ... if ESR works fine it's all good.

thing you can try is to have the face more closed during the racket drop, this might encourage you to hit lower on the face and have less ESR.

 

[Roforot]

well, it looks like my drive BH is what you describe as a jab (albeit w/ a mostly straight elbow). It helps though as another player was trying to tell me I seemed to be using too much arm but he couldn't quite explain that I was missing ESR. I am predominantly slicing after a recent neck/trapezium injury (from sleeping in a funky position), but once better, I'll try focusing on ESR to see how it connects w/ my drive backhand.