Berdych considering retirement

Picmun

Picmun

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Nostradamus

Nostradamus

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Zardoz7/12 said:
Karel Knap@Karel_Knap via twitter
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1145689397695791105
Tomas Berdych in London: "This may be my last @Wimbledon." He's been hampered and limited by hip problems since February. He says there are better days and worse days but it never gets O.K. He could make some decisions about his career after the tournament. Plays Fritz tomorrow.

Another player could bite the dust :(
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Does this mean now he has no chance of winning a major ??? this guy is probably the best player never to win a major ?
 
True Fanerer

True Fanerer

G.O.A.T.
He could've said something before I picked him in my bracket :mad:

Nah, really I feel sorry for Berdych.

He never quite lived up to his potential.
 
Shaolin

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
No need for him anyway.

Something happened to him years ago and he has just been skating by collecting checks...happy to get beat by any higher ranked player.
 
ghostofMecir

ghostofMecir

Hall of Fame
Nostradamus said:
Does this mean now he has no chance of winning a major ??? this guy is probably the best player never to win a major ?
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Pretty good argument for it if you consider both peak ceiling and overall achievements. Ferrer has better overall achievements as far as ranking consistency and overall winning are condensed, but Berdych is right there but with a better “peak” game.
 
Meles

Meles

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ghostofMecir said:
Pretty good argument for it if you consider both peak ceiling and overall achievements. Ferrer has better overall achievements as far as ranking consistency and overall winning are condensed, but Berdych is right there but with a better “peak” game.
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Does Bendy even have an impressive title to his name? 13 is amazingly low given his rankings. He had a Sock like win at Paris Masters in 2005, but the few 500s he has don't look all that amazing.
 
ghostofMecir

ghostofMecir

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I saw a bit of him today. He has lost all the power of his serve and the fluidity of his easy power and even though movement was never a strength, it’s a complete liability now. It was really sad watching Fritz absolutely thrash him every which way today.
 
Third Serve

Third Serve

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Meles said:
Does Bendy even have an impressive title to his name? 13 is amazingly low given his rankings. He had a Sock like win at Paris Masters in 2005, but the few 500s he has don't look all that amazing.
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"Sock-like win?"

Coria, Ferrero, Gaudio, Stepanek, and Ljubicic all in a row. He didn't face any top quality players, but each of those guys (except Stepanek) is without a doubt better than what Sock had to face in 2017: Edmund, Pouille, Verdasco, Benneteau, and Krajinovic.

Only Verdasco could deserve a spot in the first list.
 
Mainad

Mainad

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Third Serve said:
"Sock-like win?"

Coria, Ferrero, Gaudio, Stepanek, and Ljubicic all in a row. He didn't face any top quality players, but each of those guys (except Stepanek) is without a doubt better than what Sock had to face in 2017: Edmund, Pouille, Verdasco, Benneteau, and Krajinovic.

Only Verdasco could deserve a spot in the first list.
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Apart from Verdasco I would include Stepanek. He was runner up in Paris the previous year and would be ranked in the top #10 a few months later.
 
Meles

Meles

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Mainad said:
That's unfair. He beat 5 seeded players including 4 top 10 seeds and 2 GS champions in his run to the title. Sock only faced 1 seed, the #17.
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All clay courters.:-D I've seen a lot of 500's with betterer draws is the point.

This "retirement" is almost as sweet as Roddick's.:sneaky:
 
Meles

Meles

Bionic Poster
Third Serve said:
"Sock-like win?"

Coria, Ferrero, Gaudio, Stepanek, and Ljubicic all in a row. He didn't face any top quality players, but each of those guys (except Stepanek) is without a doubt better than what Sock had to face in 2017: Edmund, Pouille, Verdasco, Benneteau, and Krajinovic.

Only Verdasco could deserve a spot in the first list.
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Bendy beat clay courters on carpet save Clownanek.
 
Meles

Meles

Bionic Poster
ChaelAZ said:
Berdych looking to retire still puts in more effort to matches than Tomic, and most the time Kyrgios.
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Bendy had a deserved reputation as a bit of a choker on serve, but in fact his returning under pressure was an asset. Still very average serve for his height held him back.

Your post is flattering to Tomic and a bit insult to Kyrgios who has never been the Big 3's poodle.:mad:
 
Third Serve

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Meles said:
Bendy beat clay courters on carpet save Clownanek.
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Coria is still a tough second round opponent, no matter what the surface. Ferrero was quite good on other surfaces as well as clay, given he made the US Open final, the WTF, and won a Masters 1000 indoors. He might have been a bit past his best here, but he's no cakewalk for sure. Gaudio I can agree with you on. Stepanek wasn't that good of a player but on a fast surface he can cause plenty of trouble as his game is practically tailor-made for those conditions. Ljubicic is no slouch either. He nearly won Madrid (indoor hard) just a few weeks before Paris, beating Nalbandian and Coria on his way to the final. The two titles he won that year were both indoors, which only adds more to my claim.

It may not be the toughest draw ever but to compare it with Jack Sock's travesty of a Masters tournament is completely unreasonable.
 
Meles

Meles

Bionic Poster
Third Serve said:
Coria is still a tough second round opponent, no matter what the surface. Ferrero was quite good on other surfaces as well as clay, given he made the US Open final, the WTF, and won a Masters 1000 indoors. He might have been a bit past his best here, but he's no cakewalk for sure. Gaudio I can agree with you on. Stepanek wasn't that good of a player but on a fast surface he can cause plenty of trouble as his game is practically tailor-made for those conditions. Ljubicic is no slouch either. He nearly won Madrid (indoor hard) just a few weeks before Paris, beating Nalbandian and Coria on his way to the final. The two titles he won that year were both indoors, which only adds more to my claim.

It may not be the toughest draw ever but to compare it with Jack Sock's travesty of a Masters tournament is completely unreasonable.
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LOL Coria, he was well into his serve yips at that point.:sneaky:

For fun I'm going to pull Recent Elo's for the Bendy triumph:
Jiri Novak recent Elo ranking of 64
Coria was still ranked 10 by recent Elo, but by January was 25
Ferrero recent Elo of 14, but heading to 21 by end of year
Guaido recent Elo of 14 and then steep decline
Stepanek recent Elo of 39, but up to 20 by January 2006 (decent opponent)
Luby in the final...recent Elo of 5 and on the rise to peak of 3 the next year.

So basically easy vacuum era route to the final where he had a worth opponent on carpet. Khachanov last year beat recent Elo's 15(Isner), 6, 5, & 1 last year, so pretty much Khachanov >>>>> Berdych:p
 
D

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Lew II said:
Philippoussis is nowhere close to players like Ferrer in achievements.

He lost in 1R ot 2R in 20 slams out of 38 and never qualified for the YEC, LOL
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Made 2 GS finals though, can't be ignored.
 
mightyrick

mightyrick

Legend
I wouldn't count Berdych out. When you have a long term injury... it's hard to see past it. Lots of players have been in this situation. Especially with surgeries involved and long rehabs.

The body takes a long time to mend and adapt in these situations. I'll be curious to see what he says at the end of the year.
 
Third Serve

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Meles said:
LOL Coria, he was well into his serve yips at that point.:sneaky:

For fun I'm going to pull Recent Elo's for the Bendy triumph:
Jiri Novak recent Elo ranking of 64
Coria was still ranked 10 by recent Elo, but by January was 25
Ferrero recent Elo of 14, but heading to 21 by end of year
Guaido recent Elo of 14 and then steep decline
Stepanek recent Elo of 39, but up to 20 by January 2006 (decent opponent)
Luby in the final...recent Elo of 5 and on the rise to peak of 3 the next year.

So basically easy vacuum era route to the final where he had a worth opponent on carpet. Khachanov last year beat recent Elo's 15(Isner), 6, 5, & 1 last year, so pretty much Khachanov >>>>> Berdych:p
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First of all, I don't trust Elo all that much when judging form, since that is where it's application is arguably weakest. I don't think I need to state any reasons why as the subject has been done to death. That being said, the ratings seem accurate enough, but I have a few counter-points which I'll cover as we go on.

Second of all, this entire discussion is all about the comparison to Jack Sock's 2017 Paris Masters draw. I haven't yet tried to argue that it was the toughest draw ever or anywhere close to that; merely that it consisted of a tougher batch of opponents than what Sock had to face. Your recent Elo list seems to back that statement up pretty neatly considering most of the above players likely have better numbers than anyone Sock played except for probably Verdasco. I have no stats to give but I strongly believe that's the case even without looking.

Third of all, in my previous post, I mentioned that Coria, despite the service yips (thank you for noticing that; I had overlooked it), was a very good second round opponent. You might be using a different metric, but I like to judge opponents based on how well they stack up compared to others in their position. Kyrgios in the semifinal of a Grand Slam would be considered a weak opponent, but slide him back to the second round and he automatically becomes a tough opponent. You see what I mean?

2005+ Coria being the semifinal opponent of an indoor Masters would be enough evidence to claim that Berdych's draw was weak, but he was drawn very early on so that game can't be played. So, tough relative to the round number. The same goes for Ferrero in the third round. Gaudio, I can agree, was a weaker quarterfinal opponent while Stepanek and Ljubicic more or less played to the required level. You have that going for you there.

Fourth of all, why are we bringing Khachanov into this? I never brought him up in the first place; the discussion was purely about Paris 2005 vs. Paris 2017. While we're on the topic, Khachanov's Paris win was truly impressive, even more so than Berdych's which I've been fiercely defending here. Krajinovic, Ebden, Isner, Zverev, Thiem, and Djokovic is by no means an easy draw. I'd say it's one of the hardest Paris draws I've seen in recent memory. To add on to that, he dropped only one set and it was to tiebreak god Isner. Bit early to say Khachanov is better than Berdych though.

I think that's all. It's been an interesting discussion so far.
 
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