Besides a few distinct performances, Carlos has been mostly average this year.

InsideOut900 said:
Maybe Big 3 wouldn't win as often as Carlos today since Fed and Djoko at the very least peaked later, but better wonder what would happen if you dropped Carlos in the 2007 field instead of Novak or 2006 field instead of Nadal?

He doesn't win a single big title, heck doesn't come close to winning any.

He has a high floor allowing him to grind matches against aging Novak and weaker crop, but a low ceilling or at least unable to even access his ceilling consistently.

2021 Med would be a good comparison.
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He'd do better than Novak. He is also a high ceiling, generally high floor player with the occasional stinker. I completely disagree.

I predict his reaching some of the greatest ever tennis peaks in some years.
 
NoleFam said:
The 2nd half of this year has been average, yea. The 1st half was stellar. 47-4 (92.2% win percentage) and 6 titles (1 Slam and 2 Masters). Pretty darn good.

Since then though he's 16-5 (76.2%).
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He is not losing to scrubs usually. Only Tommy Paul and Dimitrov were bad losses. Medvedev Sinner and freaking GOAT are not very concerning losses especially at age 20.
 
For the sake of silly comparisons:

2006 Nadal in 2023: firmly wins Monte Carlo, Rome, RG and Wimbledon. In contention for IW and Dubai. Still to see the YEC performance this year.

2 Slams and 2 M1000 guaranteed. Probably more big tournaments

2007 Djoko in 2023: guaranteed titles in IW, Miami, Canada, USO. Has a decent shot in AO, FO, Wimbledon as silly as it sounds, because the fields were that weak without Carlos in them

1 Slam and 3 M1000 guaranteed. Could easily win a 2nd Slam with Med, Tsitsi, Sinner as the main competition.

2023 Carlos in 2006: gets heavily cockblocked by 2006 Fed in IW, Miami, RG, Wimbledon, USO.

Could win Hamburg if Fed skips, but that is all. Gets beaten heavily in all of the above.

2023 Carlos in 2007: loses to peak 2007 Nadal in IW routinely, could win Miami, but needs to survive against Nadal in the QF, firmly loses anything on clay and grass to Fedal, much less post-Wimbledon where his form was underpar.

Could win Miami with some luck.
 
InsideOut900 said:
The only good performances I can remember from him this year are the IW final, some matches from Barcelona, the Zed demolishion in Madrid and the Musetti/Tsitsi trashings at the French.

These aside, he had his landmark tournament in Wimbledon where he straight setted Rune and Med before taking out Novak in a rather impressive showing admittedly.

He has been anywhere from average to outright poor on HCs, IW final aside, underperformed in Rome and RG semi and has been quite subpar since Wimbledon in every tournament he entered.

I know he is only 20 and has plently of time to work on consistency, but I think it's time to dial down on the expectations from him given his inability to play close to his best often, at least at this stage in his career
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Completely agree. He has been bang average post Wimbledon. His penchant for highlight reel tennis over sustained, patient aggression is proving to be his bane. And ever since Wimbledon, it's not "flowing". It seems like he is trying extra hard to make something happen and is very tense on court. Doesn't seem to be enjoying himself as much as he did in the past. That spontaneity and spark is largely missing. Let's hope for the survival of this sport that it's just a blip in the overall big picture. If Carlitos turns out to be a flop, then we might as well stick a fork in ATP.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
He is not losing to scrubs usually. Only Tommy Paul and Dimitrov were bad losses. Medvedev Sinner and freaking GOAT are not very concerning losses especially at age 20.
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Yea agreed and even the Paul and Dimitrov losses weren't terrible. Both are top 20. Could have been worse. Lol
 
Feliciano Lopez is the greater Spanish talent, confirmed.

Disclaimer: "The past is better, my view on levels are objective facts" logic used.
 
2006 Nadal on grass is not a great player by ANY means. This is just to justify taking slam AWAY from Alcaraz and Nole's competition.

2006 Nadal didn't win queens. Raz won. 2006 Nadal had poorest draw till finals where he was meeting fed and lost first set 6-0.

2023 Raz had ok draw till finals, not bad but not too tough but he also was breadsticked vs Djokovic yet won the final.

It's just some nostalgia to give Nadal this slam out of nowhere.
 
InsideOut900 said:
2021 Med would be a good comparison.
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To take this overly serious for a second, let's compare their performances at the big events.

AO: Alcaraz didn't play, so no point of comparison.
IW: Alcaraz easily. Med lost to Dimitrov in the quarters. Alcaraz won beating FAA, Sinner, and Medvedev on the trot in straight sets.
Miami: Alcaraz. Med lost in straights to RBA in the quarter. Alcaraz to Sinner in three in the semis. Clearly better, though not by the margin of IW.
MC: Neither played.
Madrid: Lol. Alcaraz won the whole thing. Med lost early to Garin.
Rome: Meh. Both lost early in straights, but Alcaraz at least won a match first.
RG: Alcaraz clearly. Manhandled Tsistipas in the quarters, where Med went down in straights.
Wimbledon: Alcaraz by a country mile. Med barely skated by Cilic before losing to Hurkacz. Alcaraz... well, we all know happened there.
Canada: Medvedev clearly. He won the whole thing while Alcaraz lost to Tommy Paul.
Cincinnati: Alcaraz made the final and even had a championship point, even if he struggled mightily along the way. Med lost to Rubles in the semifinal.
USO: Medvedev clearly. I mean, I don't think he faced anyone playing as well as 2023 Medvedev, but still, he was insanely dominant that fortnight.

Shanghai wasn't held in 21 so no point of comparison there either. Anyway, Alcaraz this year has clearly been better almost everywhere compared to Medvedev in 21. The one big feather in the latter's cap is the US Open. (He also made the finals in Paris and the ATP Finals, so we'll see if Alcaraz can come close to matching that or not.)
 
InsideOut900 said:
The only good performances I can remember from him this year are the IW final, some matches from Barcelona, the Zed demolishion in Madrid and the Musetti/Tsitsi trashings at the French.

These aside, he had his landmark tournament in Wimbledon where he straight setted Rune and Med before taking out Novak in a rather impressive showing admittedly.

He has been anywhere from average to outright poor on HCs, IW final aside, underperformed in Rome and RG semi and has been quite subpar since Wimbledon in every tournament he entered.

I know he is only 20 and has plently of time to work on consistency, but I think it's time to dial down on the expectations from him given his inability to play close to his best often, at least at this stage in his career
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Sadly he lost his humbleness and believed the hype and lost the desire to fight for every point and wants to entertain first win 2nd. The us open loss to medvedev where he took liberties in thw 1st set may become the worst mistake of his career. He needs to win australia i think.
 
messiahrobins said:
Sadly he lost his humbleness and believed the hype and lost the desire to fight for every point and wants to entertain first win 2nd. The us open loss to medvedev where he took liberties in thw 1st set may become the worst mistake of his career. He needs to win australia i think.
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Nadal is in Carlos’s head too.
 
BeatlesFan said:
He won Wimbledon, two Masters 1000 and three other 500's. If you think a 20 year old who had a season like that is "average," then you have an agenda. You can stop worrying, Carlos isn't going to pass Nole in slams in 2038. But denigrating this kid for an "average" year is the definition of either being blind or insane, take your pick.
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All that is true. But then i think of Del Potro. Nobody knows what the future brings. Therefore when the opportunity knocks one should take it and alcaraz should have won RG and Uso this season with how weak thw tour is. Next season may be alot harder for him if rune korda sinner musetti shelton step up.
 
In terms of shot-making and shot-selection and even movement (until the cramps) he was playing well enough to win the Roland Garros Final.
But that's the thing, he find his best form when playing Djokovic, but struggles to find that form against others.
Maybe he needs a better coach to focus him, plus I'm sick of seeing Ferrero's face.
 
And since people are talking 2012, let's look at Carlitos vs. Fed from that year.

IW: Federer dropped a couple sets early, but then tore through some great players in straight sets. Alcaraz similarly beat some top players handily, but Fed's opposition was a bit better.
Miami: Alcaraz made the semis looking just as dominant as at IW before running out of steam against Sinner. Federer lost early to Roddick (in his last season, barely seeded).
MC: Neither played.
Madrid: Similar to Indian Wells. Both won, but Federer beat the better players to win.
Rome: Federer easily. Made it the semis before losing to Novak while Alcaraz crapped out early.
RG: This is where I might start to get controversial, but I'll take Alcaraz slightly. Fed dropped a set apiece to Ungur (who?), Mahut (on clay?), and Goffin (a lucky loser at the time!) before going down two sets to love against Delpo and then losing in straights to Djoker (who himself had only barely skated by Seppi and Tsonga in the previous rounds). Alcaraz was clearly better pre-semifinal than Federer, even if he didn't play anyone as good as 2012 Delpo.
Wimbledon: Lol
Canada: Federer didn't play, so no point of comparison. Carlos sucked anyway.
Cincinnati: Federer clearly, given that he won without dropping a set and even bageled Novak in the final.
US Open: Another one where I'll give the slight edge to Alcaraz. Federer won three matches in straight sets here (Verdasco the only opponent of note), then got a walkover in the round of 16 before losing to Berdych in the quarters. Alcaraz dropped a set to Evans but also beat Zverev in straights in the quarters before losing in four to Medvedev. It's close, but Fed didn't beat anyone as good as Zverev and lost to a worse player in my opinion – especially given that that semifinal was probably the single best slam match Medvedev has ever played.
Shanghai: Federer clearly here as well. Beat Wawrinka and Cilic before losing to Murray in the semis. Alcaraz of course just lost to Dimitrov.

Federer certainly the more consistent. Alcaraz, though, was at least at a similar level to Federer in two of three slams played, though Fed was far and away better at Wimbledon (the one hiccup against Benneteau aside). I'm not one who would say Alcaraz is on the level of a strong Big 3 year like this, but he's not insanely far off either – and of course he's well behind where the Big 3 were in their respective best seasons, but that's to be expected at just 20 years old.
 
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tennis_pro said:
This is like Djokovic's 2008 season.

The only difference is that Djokovic had peak/prime Federer and Nadal and a whole tour to compete against while Alcaraz has a 40-year old Djokovic and a bunch of nobodies.
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It's crazy what Djoker can do at 41 yo, I've never seen a 42 yo player show such great consistency. It's true Raz fails to dominate despite his main rival being 43, but he's still an inexperienced baby. Hopefully he'll have more epic battles against the 44 yo champion before he retires.
 
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CoolCoolCool said:
It's crazy what Djoker can do at 41 yo, I've never seen a 42 yo player show such great consistency. It's true Raz fails to dominante despite his main rival being 43, but he's still an inexperienced baby. Hopefully he'll have more epic battles against the 44 yo champion before he retires.
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I'm not surprised, sports medicine can do amazing things these days, and Djokovic has access to all the best.
 
CoolCoolCool said:
It's crazy what Djoker can do at 41 yo, I've never seen a 42 yo player show such great consistency. It's true Raz fails to dominate despite his main rival being 43, but he's still an inexperienced baby. Hopefully he'll have more epic battles against the 44 yo champion before he retires.
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heeey
 
gqnelly said:
He won a slam because Wimbledon (the chair umpire and the fans) did their best to get him in the match...he was about to go down two sets to love. The chair umpire calls time violations at the end of the second set and Novak loses his focus for two sets leading to him being down two sets to one instead of being up two to love. Credit to Carlos for taking advantage but he had a LOT OF HELP....
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Amen to this.
 
mike danny said:
You clearly misunderstood what dead means in this context. Djokovic clearly wasn’t feeling well physically in the Cincy final and Carlos let him off the hook when he should’ve gone for the jugular
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I don’t see him winning more than 1 slam next year honestly. I think he wins one, purely because I expect Nole to lose a step next year. Maybe Sinner could do some damage but he needs to work on those legs
 
tudwell said:
And since people are talking 2012, let's look at Carlitos vs. Fed from that year.

IW: Federer dropped a couple sets early, but then tore through some great players in straight sets. Alcaraz similarly beat some top players handily, but Fed's opposition was a bit better.
Miami: Alcaraz made the semis looking just as dominant as at IW before running out of steam against Sinner. Federer lost early to Roddick (in his last season, barely seeded).
MC: Neither played.
Madrid: Similar to Indian Wells. Both won, but Federer beat the better players to win.
Rome: Federer easily. Made it the semis before losing to Novak while Alcaraz crapped out early.
RG: This is where I might start to get controversial, but I'll take Alcaraz slightly. Fed dropped a set apiece to Ungur (who?), Mahut (on clay?), and Goffin (a lucky loser at the time!) before going down two sets to love against Delpo and then losing in straights to Djoker (who himself had only barely skated by Seppi and Tsonga in the previous rounds). Alcaraz was clearly better pre-semifinal than Federer, even if you want to argue he didn't play anyone as good as 2012 Delpo (though surely Tsitsipas isn't too terribly far off, given his record on clay).
Wimbledon: Lol
Canada: Federer didn't play, so no point of comparison. Carlos sucked anyway.
Cincinnati: Federer clearly, given that he won without dropping a set and even bageled Novak in the final.
US Open: Another one where I'll give the slight edge to Alcaraz. Federer won three matches in straight sets here (Verdasco the only opponent of note), then got a walkover in the round of 16 before losing to Berdych in the quarters. Alcaraz dropped a set to Evans but also beat Zverev in straights in the quarters before losing in four to Medvedev. It's close, but Fed didn't beat anyone as good as Zverev and lost to a worse player in my opinion – especially given that that semifinal was probably the single best slam match Medvedev has ever played.
Shanghai: Federer clearly here as well. Beat Wawrinka and Cilic before losing to Murray in the semis. Alcaraz of course just lost to Dimitrov.

Federer certainly the more consistent. Alcaraz, though, was at least at a similar level to Federer in two of three slams played, though Fed was far and away better at Wimbledon (the one hiccup against Benneteau aside). I'm not one who would say Alcaraz is on the level of a strong Big 3 year like this, but he's not insanely far off either – and of course he's well behind where the Big 3 were in their respective best seasons, but that's to be expected at just 20 years old.
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I'd take IW Raz slightly but these almost mirror what I'd say.

Your post is shockingly, reasonable given the forum we're in and the level of discourse that is on display.
 
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dking68 said:
Yeah I agree but I expect Novak to decline a bit. I don’t see Novak winning three next year, but I said this last year and look what happened. The new gen needs to step up
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New gen too busy modeling for the blind apparently and TikTok ing to have any worries about being great.
 
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