dking68
Legend
Will lobster step it up in slams next year? Or will he become another Zverev, Tsitsipas
Besides a few distinct performances, Carlos has been mostly average this year.
- Thread starter InsideOut900
- Start date
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Fed had a bad day against an in form Berdych. Don’t think he loses to tired Zverev. And if he reaches the semis, I wouldn’t dismiss his chances against Med
No I don't think he loses to Zverev either. It's close, I just think Alcaraz actually proved a little more on court than Fed did in their respective tournaments. But I could understand someone leaning the other way. Maybe in Alcaraz's place Fed would end up doing better.
Benf15harp
Hall of Fame
Imo he’s far better than both. He can clearly eat tiny for breakfast so as long as he avoids the great NOLE I’d say F yea! Usopen2024 is the one.
dking68
Legend
I think so too. How do you think he’ll do in 25’ if he wins the open in 24?
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Nole also thinks the same. He is talking about winning 3 next year. I think the Cincy win and the. Raz's unexpected departure has given Nole a pause on Raz's future. Ofcourse the future is bright but I think Nole is confident for next year.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Nole respects Raz but he was trying to compare Raz to Nole's chief rival and Raz is not ready for it
Hypo Crisis
Professional
I understand. But feeling physically gassed is totally different from mentally gassed. Novak has shown that he needs some time to adapt to his physical fatigue and he can be ok after. While if he is mentally out... it's over.
dking68
Legend
I don’t see Raz winning AO next year. RG he has a really good chance. I don’t see Raz defending Wimbledon. Sinner will be ready for USO.
duaneeo
Legend
I disagree. He won a slam and two Masters in 2022. The competition didn't get greater in 2023, and this Alcaraz fan expected much more from him. Wimbledon made up for the cramping at Roland Garros, but he's been nothing but hugely disappointing since at the big tournaments...losing to mug Paul at Canada, Oldjokic at Cincinnati, Mugvedev at the US Open, and now to the 90's-born mug poster boy at Shanghai.
This I somewhat resonate with. He's certainly had improvements from last year in many areas, and I think he's doing just fine given his age and experience. But it is certainly a disappointment that this wasn't the multislam season it seemed to be a while ago.
The year of Alcaraz has once again been overshadowed by a Big 3 player. It isn't his year yet even if he did have a legitimate claim to being no.1 for large parts of the year.
He needs to take a break. Seethe, grind, be smarter about scheduling and better own next year.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Please DO expose this forum. Alcaraz has been unjustly targeted here now because for fedal fans he couldn't stop Nole.
Clay lover
Legend
Once people have started to figure him out and rush his forehand on fast hardcourts I feel like he's in a bit of a lull.
But being figured out because of the publicity you're receiving is not a new thing - I think he can find a way to adapt.
But being figured out because of the publicity you're receiving is not a new thing - I think he can find a way to adapt.
McGradey
Hall of Fame
I noticed Dimitrov doing a good job of flattening out both his forehand and his DTL backhand into the Alcaraz forehand side. Definitely seems to be a vulnerability for the youngster. He seemed to be doing a better job of shortening the stroke and protecting himself on that side during the grass season, I expect he will try to figure it out fully in the off-season.
Fabresque
Legend
Big 3 have ruined tennis fandom.
We think that a 1 slam season is an abject failure that should not be celebrated.
Carlos has had an objectively successful season. Lol
V
Voleathoney97
Guest
Alcaraz moved like he's 35 year old.
TheFifthSet
Legend
best serving performance I’ve seen from Dim in years, pulled the trigger on BP’s (4 breaks in 14 return games, but only 33% RPW lul, rare overperformance), typical over-hitting/being rushed for time during nadirs from Carlitos.
chuckersthenut
Hall of Fame
Ridiculous. Poorly against Medvedev? Forgive your mother. Because you are a liar
The Sinner
Semi-Pro
How would you compare Alcaraz now with Djokovic and Nadal when they were the same age?
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Sinner is already in his prime and needs to step up in the most important tournaments.
There is no room for excuses for "chicken legs" anymore.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
He’s only 20yr!!!!
Benf15harp
Hall of Fame
Cygs! Lol jk
All depends on Novak.
Once he’s outta the way I don’t see anyone for the next 5 years or so beating sinner or tiny for slams.
dking68
Legend
Dominic & Andrey
Legend
Ewwww
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Alcaraz will have the Spanish inferiority complex when he faces Rafa. No doubt.
gqnelly
Rookie
Go back and watch the match...see when the umpire choses to call a time violation (Novak even says "you are seriously going to call that now in a Wimbledon final")...and some of the calls that were made during that crucial end to the second set and early in the 3rd. For the record, Alcaraz was taking more than 25 seconds consistently, as well. Novak goes on to lose the tiebreaker and then the following set 6-1 instead of being 2-0 up and maybe winning in straight sets...he goes 2 to 1 down and is so angry he doesnt regain his composure until the 4th set. At one point in the semis, the chair umpire gave Novak a hindrance call for something that Alcaraz does on literally every shot of every match (grunt as loud as an F16 taking off). The crowd got into it in the tiebreak and tried to make Novak miserable, too...so all I am saying is HE HAD SOME HELP.
Fabresque
Legend
Djokovic is honestly the last player on the planet that is impacted by these kinds of intangibles. To him it really doesn't matter, so I don't think Alcaraz was really helped at all. I think it was two warriors putting it out there on the court and Alcaraz squeaking by in the end. It happens.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
True. If we start taking slams away for these minor reasons, we would not be any different than Andy Murray who got distracted by feather.
messiahrobins
Legend
Alcaraz i think is at a bit of a crossroads. Not liking his mental state at the moment at all, he reminds me of courier late 1993. Courier was 23 at the time. I hope im wrong as i love alcaraz he is my fav player along with shelton but i am worried.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
I agree with this.
dking68
Legend
I just like Sinner man. I really hope he works on the body over that offseason because if he gets that body right, it’s over for everyone, including Djokovic. Sinners mental went up a level during this China swing
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Because Novak is never dead , I am surprised you're still asking this question
AlienBug
New User
“If you don’t count the tournaments he won, he hasn’t won anything this year.”
I agree. He had a lot of help from his self belief and ability to break Novak and outplay him despite Novak's best efforts in the final set. Watch it again -this time without your blinkers and closed mind. To begrudge an opponent's win is the lowest form of fandom. Grow up.
And must outright win everything because the era is weak and somehow he himself won't become a better player in the coming years (hint: he was 19/20 in 2023).“If you don’t count the tournaments he won, he hasn’t won anything this year.”
The hypocrisy / double standards that pass for assessment on this board are noteworthy only because of the obtuseness depicted.
That said, and given that Carlos has not / is unlikely to win everything and is as prone to being 'off-piste' as anyone else, is true. What is beyond me is who exactly has said that he will win everything / definitely amass xxxx number of slams etc. Who?
Any comments I have heard from the pundits / commentators or read about the potential that Carlos has shown, focus on that potential and do not purport to be taken as tablets of stone. There can never be certainty. It is frankly absurd to suppose that the unrealistic expectations of some fans, equate to a justification for denigrating his excellent achievements.
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InsideOut900
Legend
“If you don’t count the tournaments he won, he hasn’t won anything this year.”
Because I am not talking about the tournaments he won, but how he played levelwise, irrespective of win or loss.
This is simply a thread about how Carlos actually played compared to what he is capable of producing on the court, it's that simple. His so called great year wouldn't happen if there were more quality players to punish his average performances.
He deserves Wimbledon and IW, he was outright better than what the rest can produce, but the rest of the time his level was sketchy against good competition.
Now that most people twist and reinterpretate what I am saying it's not my fault, lol.
Loooool! A big fat zero.“If you don’t count the tournaments he won, he hasn’t won anything this year.”
So who should he play / beat? Will some army of 'quality' players manifest to justify wins by the players or is this yardstick simply put forward for Carlos? And will you then agree that every no-hoper beaten by the great players wasn't a worthy win?
It is not twisting what you say, but pointing out that your premise is weak.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
InsideOut900
Legend
This is mostly just beating around the bush to avoid the actual point I made.
He isn't supposed to beat better players, he is supposed to do the part he can control, which is how well he can play against the players he is facing.
This is actually something I agree with, but only if a player is compared within the context of their own era and never escape that bubble.
Essentially what this type of thinking promotes is not using your critical thinking and just apply an uniform standard/methodology over everything, which is exactly what you did in the initial comment, applying the "you can only beat who is in front of you" without dynamically analyzing who was he actually facing and how he played himself, which is far more valuable for me at least.
Responding to all your comment -just avoiding repeating a long quote.
As to your first response - he has beaten those he beat and lost when he couldn't do so. The point is whether he has been largely average, and that assessment must take into account his achievements against the field - not in thin air. Debating in thin air is meaningless if making judgements on performance. There is no beating around the bush - your premise is weak. You propose at once that Carlos has been average AND that the quality of those he has beaten is questionable.
You say in your second point, if I understand it, that you discussed how well Carlos played / the calibre of the player faced. Not so. You said "His so called great year wouldn't happen if there were more quality players to punish his average performances." This is not analysing / discussing what happened, but what might have happened if he faced players of "quality". That old chestnut of an asterisk against his wins.
I disagree with you, because I am thinking critically, and believe that your premise is wide of the mark.
I do however appreciate your contributions, because they were thought provoking, and allowed a discussion. Thanks for that.
NYTennisfan
Hall of Fame
This again?
He missed a lot of the early HC season with injury.
He won arguably the 5th slam in Indian Wells, cramped at the French Open semis, won Queens leading up to Wimbledon and then Wimbledon beating Djokovic, then lost an epic final to Djokovic in arguably the most important Masters tournament then lost in the Semis of the US Open.
He made at least the Semis of every important tournament outside of Rome I guess? And won on what was previously thought of as his weakest surface. Maybe he hasn't reached the insanely high expectations of TTW posters but he's had a great season as a 20 year old. People think he's some kind of robot that should win every or most major tournaments. He's not a Djokocop, nobody is.
He missed a lot of the early HC season with injury.
He won arguably the 5th slam in Indian Wells, cramped at the French Open semis, won Queens leading up to Wimbledon and then Wimbledon beating Djokovic, then lost an epic final to Djokovic in arguably the most important Masters tournament then lost in the Semis of the US Open.
He made at least the Semis of every important tournament outside of Rome I guess? And won on what was previously thought of as his weakest surface. Maybe he hasn't reached the insanely high expectations of TTW posters but he's had a great season as a 20 year old. People think he's some kind of robot that should win every or most major tournaments. He's not a Djokocop, nobody is.
I think his level at the slams this year was fantastic. Peak Big 3 level? Obviously not. But he demolished Musetti and Tsitsipas on clay, Zverev on hard, Med and Rune on grass. No one else on tour besides Novak could even get close to doing that across all three surfaces.
Of course, he faltered a bit in the two semis he lost. The cramping in particular was disappointing. That’s the only real let-down as far as slam performances in my opinion. He could have played better against Medvedev as well, but Med in that form at the US Open is a worthy opponent to lose to (Novak at the French is too, of course, but the manner of that first loss left something to be desired).
Outside the slams I think you’re closer to the mark. But even that is mostly post-Wimbledon hard court performances that have left something to be desired. Hope he cleans up his game soon and gets back to early 2023 form.
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