Best baseliner of all time: Nadal or Novak?

Best baseliner of all time?


  • Total voters
    81
  • Poll closed .

vex

Hall of Fame
Nadal purely from the baseline considering that Djokovic has better first strikes off both the serve and the return.
Yeah it’s really hard to argue with this. Rafa’s ability to wreck everyone and keep up woth Djoker despite lagging behind on serve/return kinda speaks for itself.
 

vex

Hall of Fame
I mean the data is there. Overall across all surfaces combined (Hard + Clay + Grass), Rafa is the best player in tennis history from a neutral baseline position.

I have a question to those saying Novak.

How has Nadal won more Slams than Novak despite having a "worse serve, worse return of serve and worse baseline game".

Keep in mind that Rafa has played less Slams tournaments than Novak so the age excuse does not work, so how is this possible ?
I’m not necessarily saying Rafa isn’t a better baseliner... this is a close call. But I think the biggest factor is simple Rafa’s unmatched movement on clay.

I do think the accuracy Novak shows when he is absolutely peaking puts his baseline game above anything Rafa can do. BUT he doesn’t maintain that level and often plays complacently. Rafa just relentlessly plays at that same excellent level.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Italian is my favourite. Guessing you know some good places in London?
Man all I did during the COVID-19 induced lockdown in my area was cook Italian. I'm guessing you've cooked a lot too but after I fixed my version of the various dishes I like I'm only ever going to Italian restaurants to eat food I can't cook at home (no oven) or can't be bothered to make at home.
 

Leandro2045

New User
https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/

In-play Points Dominance
(In-play Points Dominance Ratio : % of return in-play points won divided by % of service in-play points lost (excluding aces and double faults)

Nadal : 1.35%
Djokovic : 1.29%
Agassi : 1.27%
Federer : 1.25%
Sampras : 1.23%


2nd Srv. In-play Points Dominance
(2nd Serve In-play Points Dominance Ratio: % of 2nd serve return in-play points won divided by % of 2nd serve service in-play points lost (excluding double faults)

Nadal : 1.33%
Djokovic : 1.29%
Agassi : 1.23%
Federer : 1.17%
Sampras : 1.11%
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
He probably hasn't had wings in years lol. He's so much of a seafood nut. I can't stand the stuff he usually loves. Paella? Gross!

So you mean to tell me that you've been posting pictures of chicken wings this whole time because you literally don't eat anything else?

:unsure:
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Man all I did during the COVID-19 induced lockdown in my area was cook Italian. I'm guessing you've cooked a lot too but after I fixed my version of the various dishes I like I'm only ever going to Italian restaurants to eat food I can't cook at home (no oven) or can't be bothered to make at home.
I tended to cook quite a lot too but I've definitely been making a bit more effort - done a lot of baking as well.

I cook a lot of stuff with pasta but I don't know if I'd call it Italian, probably need to up my game there :laughing:
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
We were in Italy before Christmas (we got married).
Good Italian restaurant in London? I give you San Lorenzo in Wimbledon. An almost historic restaurant in Wimbledon. Two Italian(their parents started it, they have another restaurant in Knightsbridge) brothers I know runs it. Their food is authentic and they only use fresh foods. The price is low compared to the quality. Place is full of tennis too, being a restaurant like that for years in SW19 with that network, many players go there. I don’t want to name drop so much, but it’s got an atmosphere like nowhere else. I’ve had so much fun there, a second home.
They also have sometimes giro d’Italia wine tastings which is great. They get an Italian from the specific region and wine. They have good wines to a nice prize.
They change the menu after what’s in season. Owner personally goes to the market to get the best products for the dishes. Best food and atmosphere!
Checked out the website and it has Boris Becker giving it an endorsement (y) Looks good!

I'll deffo make way down there once everything has eased off. Thanks!
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
I tended to cook quite a lot too but I've definitely been making a bit more effort - done a lot of baking as well.

I cook a lot of stuff with pasta but I don't know if I'd call it Italian, probably need to up my game there :laughing:
What‽

Proper pastas are the easiest things to cook if you have the right ingredients! Of course there is a wee bit of technique required—and most of it comes down to tossing the pasta in the sauce at the end to emulsify the sauce and timing it so that it doesn’t overcook, but other than that they’ve got a fantastic time invested to reward ratio.
 

aman92

Hall of Fame
As someone already mentioned Novak has a better first serve and return shot.. So purely from baseline play, it has to be Nadal
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
What‽

Proper pastas are the easiest things to cook if you have the right ingredients! Of course there is a wee bit of technique required—and most of it comes down to tossing the pasta in the sauce at the end to emulsify the sauce and timing it so that it doesn’t overcook, but other than that they’ve got a fantastic time invested to reward ratio.
Yeah don't get me wrong I cook some nice pasta dishes, I do the trick of putting a bit of pasta water in at the end to make a sauce and stuff so I'm not a novice :laughing: But I like to do stuff like putting choritzo in with my crab and cherry tomatoes which I wouldn't call Italian etc... I make a good ragu as well (including white ragu) etc...I have a few arrows in my quiver. What I mean is I don't think I'm particularly authentic with it.
 

ravenousRublev

New User
Nadal is the better baseliner and it really isn't close in a neutral rally nadal would win 55-60% of points against Djokovic. Djokovic has a massive advantage on hard/grass courts due huge serve and return advantage, Also the low bounce makes it more difficult to take the ball early nadal needs more time to attack the ball. Topspin is less effective on faster surfaces. Nadal dominates on clay because serve and return on clay become mostly a nonfactor and the high bounce suits rafa able to to put massive amounts of topspin on forehand making hitting through rafa on clay almost impossible. Clay is the best measure of pure baseline skill so borg,nadal, lendl probably top 3 baseliners Djokovic not too far behind.
 
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