Best Forehand of all time

Best Forehand of all time

  • Andre Agassi

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • Pete Sampras

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • Jim Courier

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Roger Federer

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • Alberto Berasategui

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • Sergi Bruguera

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gustavo Kuerten

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Carlos Moya

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • Fernando Gonzalez

    Votes: 1 11.1%

  • Total voters
    9

urban

Legend
It is generally considered that before WW 2 Bill Johnston (with an old western grip), Cochet (who invented the early take of the ball), Perry and Vines had the best forehands. After WW 2 Kramer had a great forehand to complement his big game. In the fifties little Pancho Segura had a devastating forehand as doublehander, which was impossible to read. In the sixties the new topspin forehands with continental grips by Laver, Santana and Okker were very flexible and dangerous. Borg used a western grip for extreme topspin and played from the wrong foot. Then came Lendl, who generated more power and became the role modell for the Bollettieri style of play, which centred around big forehands (Agassi, Courier, even Sampras). On clay Bruguera's and Ferrero's forehands were effective. Federer's flexible forehand reminds me a bit of Laver's wristy shot. Today Gonzales has a dangerous forehand, if he can keep them in court.
 
Father of the post-modern forehand

Nadal, Lendl, Hoad, Laver, Perry, Kramer, Little and Big Bill: all forehand authorities, but they are punk kids....whippersnappers...grade school stoodents compared to the great Zenzo Shimizu of Japan. [look it up, wise guy]

He studied all the greats (Richard Sears, Willie Renshaw, Laurie Doherty, Dwight Davis, et al) and assembled a forehand so glorious and so reliable, he earned the JD Power and Associates award for finest forehand an unprecendented four years running.

Armed with a bamboo frame, Kobe gut and a grip so far-western it was Asian-fusion, Shimizu introduced the forehand as a weapon to the sport. The Lexus of forehands! Big Bill Tilden discredited his record in Match Play and the Spin of the Ball, but I think there were some insecurities surfacing there.

Shimizu was the father of the post-modern forehand. A slight man with a scythe of an arm, his legacy as a champion was tarnished by his love and relentless pursuit of the draw. Not the draw ceremony with its tradition, tea and structure. Not even the drawsheet itself. The DRAW. The golden fleece...the Holy Grail: actually TYING one's opponent in score. Partly cultural phenomenon, partly generosity of spirit....all honor, all the time. And these were some long matches.
...

The game went on without Zenzo Shimizu, with its odd number of sets and single elimination sensibility. The great executioner, Jimmy Van Alen drove the final nail in Shimizu's coffin -- a nail known as the sudden death tie-breaker.

The game is a wealthy one for having known Zenzo Shimizu, his forehand and his code.
 

urban

Legend
Fiction and fact are always intertwined. I love these stories and weird styles which make tennis history so attractive. How about the serve of Austrian Hans Redl? It's a little tragic element in his story. He lost an arm in WW 2 and - playing at Wimbledon -was allowed to serve by taking the ball up with his racket.
 

joe sch

Legend
slice bh compliment said:
Nadal, Lendl, Hoad, Laver, Perry, Kramer, Little and Big Bill: all forehand authorities, but they are punk kids....whippersnappers...grade school stoodents compared to the great Zenzo Shimizu of Japan. [look it up, wise guy]

He studied all the greats (Richard Sears, Willie Renshaw, Laurie Doherty, Dwight Davis, et al) and assembled a forehand so glorious and so reliable, he earned the JD Power and Associates award for finest forehand an unprecendented four years running.

Armed with a bamboo frame, Kobe gut and a grip so far-western it was Asian-fusion, Shimizu introduced the forehand as a weapon to the sport. The Lexus of forehands! Big Bill Tilden discredited his record in Match Play and the Spin of the Ball, but I think there were some insecurities surfacing there.

Shimizu was the father of the post-modern forehand. A slight man with a scythe of an arm, his legacy as a champion was tarnished by his love and relentless pursuit of the draw. Not the draw ceremony with its tradition, tea and structure. Not even the drawsheet itself. The DRAW. The golden fleece...the Holy Grail: actually TYING one's opponent in score. Partly cultural phenomenon, partly generosity of spirit....all honor, all the time. And these were some long matches.
...

The game went on without Zenzo Shimizu, with its odd number of sets and single elimination sensibility. The great executioner, Jimmy Van Alen drove the final nail in Shimizu's coffin -- a nail known as the sudden death tie-breaker.

The game is a wealthy one for having known Zenzo Shimizu, his forehand and his code.

Can you elaborate on "The DRAW" ?
I dont think most of us understand Zenzo story and why if he had such a great FH, he never won any big tournaments ?
 
a DRAW

"actually tying one's opponent in score."

Satire. Attempted humor. Partly cultural, partly sports. Like Urban said, fact/fiction intertwine at times. You don't have to read it again now.

Though Shimizu was regarded as a great champion, he wasn't that great on the world stage. Big western forehand, though, according to Tilden's excellent book. Tilden basically ragged him (among others) for having less than a well-rounded game. The more things change....

Anyway, Tilden's book is called Match Play and the Spin of the Ball. It is recommended reading for any tennis player or fan. Every coach I've ever known speaks of it in reverent tones.

Urban, thanks for mentioning Hans Redl. I had forgotten that name. Like Vic Seixas, a great name for a band.
 

AndrewD

Legend
It's really nice to see that Lendl hasn't been forgotten - by the majority of posters. I was lucky enough to be down on court calling the lines when Lendl did the majority of damage at the Aus Open and I have to say that for sheer power, disguise and consistency no-one, not even Agassi, tops him. Other guys could hit it hard - Courier, Sampras, Becker, Agassi, for one - but Lendl gave you the impression that, had you checked the ball, it'd have bruises. The scary thing was, talking to the more senior umpires who'd seen Lendl in his younger days, he didn't try to hit as hard, at that stage, as he did in his early 20's.

Actually, the closest I saw to Lendl, although vastly different in technique, was Monica Seles pre-'incident'. Amazing control and power all executed by someone who took the ball three steps earlier than Agassi (it was quite freaky to see her go through matches and never once hit a forehand up around shoulder height).
 

Camilio Pascual

Hall of Fame
slice bh compliment said:
Shimizu was the father of the post-modern forehand.
The game is a wealthy one for having known Zenzo Shimizu, his forehand and his code.

Let's not forget his very interesting backhand,
he is the Japanese Alberto Berasategui.
 

foetz

Rookie
blake

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Yours!05

Professional
slice

Father of the post-modern forehand - another treat, nicely timed to complement that all-era Wimbledon feeling.
 
this one's not for everyone (sense of humor-wise)

Camilio Pascual said:
Let's not forget his very interesting backhand,
he is the Japanese Alberto Berasategui.

Indeed. Or is Berasategui the Basque Shimizu? See, the old reversal.
[it's funnier of you say it like John Lennon would have]

Camilio, is that your name or a cool old baseball reference? Cool either way, man.

And, YOURS!05, thanks for the kind words. Very Vic Seixas of you. [Vic Seixas = a euphemism for gracious]
 

Yours!05

Professional
slice bh compliment said:
Very Vic Seixas of you. [Vic Seixas = a euphemism for gracious]
Ah! Rhyming Slang as well?;)Seldom hear of Seixas. A google shows he recently spoke at some occasion honouring Trabert.
 
Yours!05

Yeah, Vic Seixas is the coolest (not just a great name). He sat in the umpire chair for a little pro-am thing I played in once. Ran into him years later at the 1999 USA-AUS Davis Cup tie at Longwood Cricket Club in Boston. You guys got us that weekend. Anyway, maybe he was just being extra VicSeixas, but he said hello before I could even get a word out. Could've just been his public persona, but, I think he knows all about grace and class. Even while sitting just under the FANatics.
All the best,
-----bh
 

crosscourt

Professional
Greatest of all time, I don't know. But a great forehand at the moment is Davydenko. If the rest of his game was there to support it, we'd be raving about his forehand. As it is it has to cope with a beautiful but not huge serve and a workmanlike backhand.
 

ctbmar

Semi-Pro
In my opinion, you got to have good footwork, anticipation, good ball-sense, good tracking of the flight of the ball and determining acute angles in order to have early preparation to hit a good forehand. So if Federer, Sampras & Lendl are of the same age (assume), using the same racket, using the same shoes, playing the same tennis ball, which of these 3 players have better footwork, better anticipation, better ball-sense, better tracking of the flight of the ball and determining acute angles in order to have early preparation to hit a good forehand??? My bet is Federer. Out of the 3 players, Federer is definitely the most efficient, the better athlete, most graceful, most effortless, best in his footwork, anticipation, tracking of the ball, etc. Sampras is a close 2nd in my books and Lendl next in line. Yes, Lendl was awesome and deadly at smacking the forehand consistently ( I saw "live" 80s matches of Lendl). But if someone like Federer can move him around the court with crazy spins, acute angles, powerful inside-out blasts, variety of forehands, making Lendl run...I doubt Lendl can keep up with Federer. Federer has withstood all the hardhitters of today's modern game by his superb footwork & anticipation. To me, he is an even better "Chess" Player than Sampras & Lendl at seeing the opponent's next move, next ball that is going to be hit, direction, pace, angle, spin, placement. Federer just reads the game better than Sampras & Lendl and this skill of his is not affected by time, by modern technology, by rackets, by tennis balls, by NIKE AIR shoes, by better court conditions, etc. This skill is in-born in Federer, it is 2nd nature to him and he just has more natural talent & more gifted in this department. Lendl may look awesome for balls that are near to him. But the discussion is the best overall Forehand. If you don't include the most difficult scenerio to hit a forehand, then it is hard to determine the best forehand. So let us imagine the worst scenerio:
These 3 players are at the extreme left side / AD side of the court, beyond the doubles line. The opponent hits a ball crosscourt, going to land exactly on the line on the deuce court, with acute angle and sliding away. By the time these 3 players attempt to run, the ball may be ankle low and they almost have to dive or lunge at the ball, their feets cannot be set properly and in mid-air, straining to reach for the ball.....

I believe Federer will have that extra lift-off, quicker off the blocks, better anticipation than Lendl or Sampras and probably be able to reach the ball to make a decent attempt to make a passing shot. Lendl plays very mechanically, and please don't tell me he will be able to run and anticipate better than Federer at getting these kind of extremely difficult balls....
No offense to Lendl or Sampras. They were the Forehand Kings of their generations, but the ONE has arrived to take their places.
 

Rodzilla

Semi-Pro
If Moya and Gonzo are up there, why does Roddick not deserve to be up there? Roddick probably has one of the best forehands in the game at the moment, and that forehand is hard to break. IMO, it's one of the only things that give him his chances against Federer. IMO, Federer arguably has the best forehand of all time. The guy is just sooo good.
 

Grimjack

Banned
ctbmar said:
In my opinion, you got to have good footwork, anticipation, good ball-sense, good tracking of the flight of the ball and determining acute angles in order to have early preparation to hit a good forehand. So if Federer, Sampras & Lendl are of the same age (assume), using the same racket, using the same shoes, playing the same tennis ball, which of these 3 players have better footwork, better anticipation, better ball-sense, better tracking of the flight of the ball and determining acute angles in order to have early preparation to hit a good forehand??? My bet is Federer. Out of the 3 players, Federer is definitely the most efficient, the better athlete, most graceful, most effortless, best in his footwork, anticipation, tracking of the ball, etc. Sampras is a close 2nd in my books and Lendl next in line. Yes, Lendl was awesome and deadly at smacking the forehand consistently ( I saw "live" 80s matches of Lendl). But if someone like Federer can move him around the court with crazy spins, acute angles, powerful inside-out blasts, variety of forehands, making Lendl run...I doubt Lendl can keep up with Federer. Federer has withstood all the hardhitters of today's modern game by his superb footwork & anticipation. To me, he is an even better "Chess" Player than Sampras & Lendl at seeing the opponent's next move, next ball that is going to be hit, direction, pace, angle, spin, placement. Federer just reads the game better than Sampras & Lendl and this skill of his is not affected by time, by modern technology, by rackets, by tennis balls, by NIKE AIR shoes, by better court conditions, etc. This skill is in-born in Federer, it is 2nd nature to him and he just has more natural talent & more gifted in this department. Lendl may look awesome for balls that are near to him. But the discussion is the best overall Forehand. If you don't include the most difficult scenerio to hit a forehand, then it is hard to determine the best forehand. So let us imagine the worst scenerio:
These 3 players are at the extreme left side / AD side of the court, beyond the doubles line. The opponent hits a ball crosscourt, going to land exactly on the line on the deuce court, with acute angle and sliding away. By the time these 3 players attempt to run, the ball may be ankle low and they almost have to dive or lunge at the ball, their feets cannot be set properly and in mid-air, straining to reach for the ball.....

I believe Federer will have that extra lift-off, quicker off the blocks, better anticipation than Lendl or Sampras and probably be able to reach the ball to make a decent attempt to make a passing shot. Lendl plays very mechanically, and please don't tell me he will be able to run and anticipate better than Federer at getting these kind of extremely difficult balls....
No offense to Lendl or Sampras. They were the Forehand Kings of their generations, but the ONE has arrived to take their places.

This goes to the Babe Ruth argument -- famous in all sports.

Yes, Fed's forehand is technically superior to Lendl's, and he's capable of doing more things with it than Lendl was. But the same is true of most players on tour today. The credit isn't all Fed's in this comparison -- a lot of it has to do with advances in technique since Lendl's heyday.

So where does The Babe come in? Most baseball authorities will tell you that hands down, Babe is the best power hitter of all time. Does he own the career HR mark? No. The single season? No. But the distance between him and his contemporaries was absolutely staggering. He was outhomering most whole teams in his era.

Likewise, Fed's forehand may be the most advanced ever, owing to advances in the forehand since Lendl's prime. But it's not even cut-and-dried that Fed has today's top FH. Ditto Sampras in his era -- and indeed, I think that would have been a minority opinion at the time.

But when Lendl played, the only argument was over who had the 2nd best forehand. Suggesting the biggest was anybody else would have been absurd. Laughable. Flat-out stupid.

The best way to compare across eras is always to compare relative to contemporaries, and when it came to forehands, Lendl had no contemporaries.
 

newnuse

Professional
Grimjack said:
This goes to the Babe Ruth argument -- famous in all sports.

Yes, Fed's forehand is technically superior to Lendl's, and he's capable of doing more things with it than Lendl was. But the same is true of most players on tour today. The credit isn't all Fed's in this comparison -- a lot of it has to do with advances in technique since Lendl's heyday.

So where does The Babe come in? Most baseball authorities will tell you that hands down, Babe is the best power hitter of all time. Does he own the career HR mark? No. The single season? No. But the distance between him and his contemporaries was absolutely staggering. He was outhomering most whole teams in his era.

Likewise, Fed's forehand may be the most advanced ever, owing to advances in the forehand since Lendl's prime. But it's not even cut-and-dried that Fed has today's top FH. Ditto Sampras in his era -- and indeed, I think that would have been a minority opinion at the time.

But when Lendl played, the only argument was over who had the 2nd best forehand. Suggesting the biggest was anybody else would have been absurd. Laughable. Flat-out stupid.

The best way to compare across eras is always to compare relative to contemporaries, and when it came to forehands, Lendl had no contemporaries.

That's a good post on the contemporary comparison. Lendl did have the best during his time. There was not much debate. He hit a very heavy ball with that club he called a racket.

I always thought Agassi had the best FH during his peak, not Sampras. I recall that most people thought Agassi had the best FH.
 
Rodzilla said:
If Moya and Gonzo are up there, why does Roddick not deserve to be up there? Roddick probably has one of the best forehands in the game at the moment, and that forehand is hard to break. IMO, it's one of the only things that give him his chances against Federer. IMO, Federer arguably has the best forehand of all time. The guy is just sooo good.

If you could argue Roddick's great forehand is one of the things that has given him a chance when he has played Federer; one could argue even more so that Gonzalez's great forehand is one of the things that gives him a chance when he plays Roddick. After all Gonzalez has been even more of a challenge to Roddick, than Roddick has been to Federer, in their careers.
 

gugafanatic

Hall of Fame
Verdasco has one of the most devastating forehands on the tour yet is not on the poll.

Nadals forehand is also quite unique due to the topsin and angles he can generate.

Grosjean and Tursanov- both have big forehands that are very flat. Seb's into-out forehand is one of the best on the tour, as he catches alot of opponents wrong-footed.

Roddick and Andreev also have big forehands- both use the Babolat PD
 

killer

Semi-Pro
Another vote for Lendl's here: as far as technique is concerned, he changed the way the forehand is hit. Prior to his rise, most forehands, save a few exceptions like Borg, were his using a continental/Eastern grip. Lendl and his coach, Tony Roche, developed a variable grip forehand that changed depending on the height of the ball i.e. eastern for low, western for high. Because of this, and as was previoulsy posted (that no one even debated his claim to best forehand in the game), lendl takes it.
 

gscone

Rookie
Hands down, Lendl. I hit with him once when I was part of the Reebok camp (many years ago, of course) and his FH was just sick.
 
L

laurie

Guest
Rafa, we're talking about the greatest forehands of all time here. How did Roddick get into this?

Roddick doesn't even have the best forehand of this generation.
 
Best MALE Forehand of RECENT Times

This would be a more accurate title for this thread!! How do you throw all the great women forehands like GRAF???
 

Jonnyf

Hall of Fame
laurie said:
Rafa, we're talking about the greatest forehands of all time here. How did Roddick get into this?

Roddick doesn't even have the best forehand of this generation.

did you see Roddick's FH againt Ferrero and Chela OMFG it was amazing
 

justafa

New User
Vote for who you think had the best forehand of all time take into account power, consistency, spin, accuracy, depth and total dominance of it. Specialties like service returns or like Andre taking the ball very early and on the up or total forehand bludgeoning over powering opponent Courier style.

For this poll I'll go with Sampras.
 
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