Best grass courters of last 12 years

R

rosewallGOAT

Banned
Now that Murray has the Wimbledon title how would you rank the top 10 grass courters in the last 12 years. I dont think there is any question Murray is over Djokovic on grass now. He has every other stat over Djokovic now that both have won Wimbledon and his game is just better for the surface. Djokovic's only noted grass skill is a great return of serve and overall consistency really. I woud rank the top 10 of the last 12 years at this point as:


1. Federer

----big gap----


2. Nadal


----big gap-----


3. Murray

-----another big gap-----


4. Hewitt
5. Djokovic
6. Roddick


Dont even know to make note of after that. Pretty much everyone else sucks as this is a super weak grass era. Guess if I had to pick people to round out the top 10 it would have to be Grosjean, Del Potro, Berdych, and Tsonga in some order.

The order of 4-6 can be debated but I think the Wimbledon-less player should be last of that trio.
 
I would put Roddick above Djoker. Although Djoker has the title, I personally think Roddick was a better grass court player, and if he had faced anyone but Roger in the finals, he probably would have won.
 
Federer
..
..
..
Murray
Nadal
Hewitt
..
Roddick
Ivanisevic
Philippousis
..
..
Djokovic
 
フェデラー said:
I would put Roddick above Djoker. Although Djoker has the title, I personally think Roddick was a better grass court player, and if he had faced anyone but Roger in the finals, he probably would have won.
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I could see Roddick or Djokovic going either way. Although if Djokovic reaches another Wimbledon final, even losing it, it would probably have to be him. He has already been much more consistent at Wimbledon than Roddick was in his prime, in addtion to winning Wimbledon.

Both should clearly be behind Murray, and even Hewitt.
 
Why are people putting Murray ahead of Djokovic on grass? Both have 2 finals and 1 win. Murray has the Olympics, but DJoko made the semi of that.. is that all it takes to put Murray above Djokovic?
 
フェデラー said:
I would put Roddick above Djoker. Although Djoker has the title, I personally think Roddick was a better grass court player, and if he had faced anyone but Roger in the finals, he probably would have won.
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I would put Roddick well above Djokovic. Roddick is very underrated on grass. In fact I think Roddick 2004 would beat any other player except for Federer in the last 10 years. Without Federer he probably wins Wimbledon 03, 04 and 09. Wimbledon 05 he probably does not win. He also might not go through such huge slumps if he had not been beaten time and time again.
 
Strategy said:
Why are people putting Murray ahead of Djokovic on grass? Both have 2 finals and 1 win. Murray has the Olympics, but DJoko made the semi of that.. is that all it takes to put Murray above Djokovic?
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Because it's a grass court mug era outside the top 4, same for clay except it's even worse
 
Strategy said:
Why are people putting Murray ahead of Djokovic on grass? Both have 2 finals and 1 win. Murray has the Olympics, but DJoko made the semi of that.. is that all it takes to put Murray above Djokovic?
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Murray has won Queens a couple times hasnt he. That and the Olympic Gold, and he has only lost at Wimbledon to Federer or Nadal since 2008 now (well and an on fire Roddick in 2009), while Djokovic has lost to old Haas, way past his prime Safin, and Berdych since becoming a top 3 player.

Plus just watching them play over the years it is obvious who has a more skillfull grass game. Djokovic won a Wimbledon since he avoided Federer and Murray, and since Nadal despite being a much better grass player than Djokovic was so mentally owned by him at that point he was always going to lose.
 
Strategy said:
Why are people putting Murray ahead of Djokovic on grass? Both have 2 finals and 1 win. Murray has the Olympics, but DJoko made the semi of that.. is that all it takes to put Murray above Djokovic?
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In titles, it's:

Murray
1 Wimbledon, 1 runner up
3 Queens
1 Olympics (Wimbledon)

Djokovic
1 Wimbledon, 1 runner up
0 Queens, 1 runner up
0 Halle, 1 runner up

Then there's the grass head-to-head, which now stands at 2-0 to Murray. Both of those defeats were straight sets.
 
Strategy said:
Why are people putting Murray ahead of Djokovic on grass? Both have 2 finals and 1 win. Murray has the Olympics, but DJoko made the semi of that.. is that all it takes to put Murray above Djokovic?
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Simply, because they watch the matches. Murray was always better than Djokovic on grass. Just like Roddick was better than Hewitt or Agassi on grass even if he never won a Wimbledon title. The same way Goran was brilliant on grass or Federer was brilliant on clay.
 
Incredible how Djokovic gets dissed on grass after 2 semis, a final and a win in the last 4 years.

Ralph in the same time had two early round exits.
 
roberttennis54 said:
Simply, because they watch the matches. Murray was always better than Djokovic on grass. Just like Roddick was better than Hewitt or Agassi on grass even if he never won a Wimbledon title. The same way Goran was brilliant on grass or Federer was brilliant on clay.
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I mostly agree, but why is it obvious Roddick is better than Hewitt on grass. Once Hewitt got himself back together was playing at roughly the same level as peak Roddick in 2004 and 2005 on grass (peak Roddick was 2003-2005 of course). Most have Hewitt winning their hypothetical Wimbledon match in 2005, but losing in 2004. Yet Hewitt was also a top grass courter from 2000-2002, winning Queens all 3 of those years, and winning Wimbledon in 2002, and was arguably even a bit better on grass than as he was in 2004-2005. Roddick had only one other year of top grass tennis which was 2009. Hewitt is a way better returner on any surface than Roddick, but especialy on grass, moves alot better on the grass, passes better, even volleys better. Roddick has the much better serve and more power, and that is about it. Roddick's return of serve is a joke, it is why he lost the Wimbledon final to Federer in 2009 despite actually outplaying him off the ground that day, but getting outaced by twice over by Federer (who doesnt have a superior serve to Roddick).

I am not sure Roddick would be better than Agassi on grass either. A way past his prime Agassi had match point to beat Roddick at Queens 2003, and that was the start of Roddick's best 4 month stretch of tennis ever. That was Roddick's only ever win over Agassi anywhere btw. Agassi on grass would also have much better returns, better passing shots, better groundies.
 
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OKUSA said:
Federer
..
..
..
Murray
Nadal
Hewitt
..
Roddick
Ivanisevic
Philippousis
..
..
Djokovic
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You CANNOT be serious. Look at their Wimbledon resumes and tell how you can say they had better results than Djokovic. Specially considering Philippoussis and Roddick have zero titles.

Even today, I didn't see this supposedly huge gap between Murray and Djokovic. Novak was ahead with breaks on both the third and fourth sets and choked them away with horrible serving.

All Djokovic hating trolls out of the woodwork now, I see.
 
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jm1980 said:
You CANNOT be serious. Look at their Wimbledon resumes and tell how you can say they had better results than Djokovic. Specially considering Philippoussis and Roddick have zero titles.

Even today, I didn't see this supposedly huge gap between Murray and Djokovic. Novak was ahead with breaks on both the third and fourth sets and choked them away with horrible serving.

All Djokovic hating trolls out of the woodwork now, I see. I'm taking a break this forum until Novak wins a slam.
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It's nothing to do with trolling. I don't mind Djokovic, but despite winning Wimbledon he has never been that great on grass. I would not agree with Scud, but Roddick is definitely a better grass court player than him. You may not see a big difference, but today we saw Murray comfortably straight set Djokovic on grass.

rosewallGOAT said:
I mostly agree, but why is it obvious Roddick is better than Hewitt on grass. Once Hewitt got himself back together was playing at roughly the same level as peak Roddick in 2004 and 2005 on grass (peak Roddick was 2003-2005 of course). Most have Hewitt winning their hypothetical Wimbledon match in 2005, but losing in 2004. Yet Hewitt was also a top grass courter from 2000-2002, winning Queens all 3 of those years, and winning Wimbledon in 2002, and was arguably even a bit better on grass than as he was in 2004-2005. Roddick had only one other year of top grass tennis which was 2009. Hewitt is a way better returner on any surface than Roddick, but especialy on grass, moves alot better on the grass, passes better, even volleys better. Roddick has the much better serve and more power, and that is about it. Roddick's return of serve is a joke, it is why he lost the Wimbledon final to Federer in 2009 despite actually outplaying him off the ground that day, but getting outaced by twice over by Federer (who doesnt have a superior serve to Roddick).

I am not sure Roddick would be better than Agassi on grass either. A way past his prime Agassi had match point to beat Roddick at Queens 2003, and that was the start of Roddick's best 4 month stretch of tennis ever. That was Roddick's only ever win over Agassi anywhere btw. Agassi on grass would also have much better returns, better passing shots, better groundies.
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I don't think Hewitt ever played at the level of 2004 Roddick. They only met once close to their primes on grass and Hewitt won. Roddick when 3 years undefeated on grass to anyone not named Federer.

In 2009 I think you will remember that Roddick broke Federer more than Federer broke him. In fact Roddick has never had trouble breaking Federer on grass. He breaks him FAR more than anyone including Nadal on the surface. His problem was holding serve against Roger. In 2004 I lost count of how many times he broke Roger. Even in 05 where he was getting thoroughly dismantled he managed to break.

I agree Hewitt would have likely won in 05, but Roddick had 03, 04 and 09 where he would have likely won Wimbledon. He won Queens 4 times as well.

As for Agassi he has never been that consistent on grass and managed to lose to players that Roddick would beat such as Scud.
 
jm1980 said:
You CANNOT be serious. Look at their Wimbledon resumes and tell how you can say they had better results than Djokovic. Specially considering Philippoussis and Roddick have zero titles.

Even today, I didn't see this supposedly huge gap between Murray and Djokovic. Novak was ahead with breaks on both the third and fourth sets and choked them away with horrible serving.

All Djokovic hating trolls out of the woodwork now, I see. I'm taking a break this forum until Novak wins a slam.
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Djokovic's only notable win on grass is against Nadal which whom he beat in like 10 finals in a row and had his number
 
I have 11 players I would consider for the top 10: Federer, Nadal, Murray, Hewitt, Djokovic, Roddick, Berdych, Tsonga, Grosjean, Ančić, and López, not necessarily in that order. Who doesn't make the cut?
 
buscemi said:
I have 11 players I would consider for the top 10: Federer, Nadal, Murray, Hewitt, Djokovic, Roddick, Berdych, Tsonga, Grosjean, Ančić, and López, not necessarily in that order. Who doesn't make the cut?
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Of those Lopez. I dont see why he would even be considered to be honest. Can you refresh me to what he has achieved on grass?
 
rosewallGOAT said:
Of those Lopez. I dont see why he would even be considered to be honest. Can you refresh me to what he has achieved on grass?
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-3 QF appearances at Wimbledon, beating Safin and Ančić in 2005, Baghdatis in 2008, and Roddick in 2011. Eastbourne title in 2013.
 
buscemi said:
-3 QF appearances at Wimbledon, beating Safin and Ančić in 2005, Baghdatis in 2008, and Roddick in 2011. Eastbourne title in 2013.
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Not bad. Still the only one of the people you listed to never make a semifinal at Wimbledon. Grosjean did 2 years in a row, as surprising as it is, and those others were atleast considered dark horses to win Wimbledon which Lopez never was. So he still gets my axe for sure.
 
rosewallGOAT said:
Not bad. Still the only one of the people you listed to never make a semifinal at Wimbledon. Grosjean did 2 years in a row, as surprising as it is, and those others were atleast considered dark horses to win Wimbledon which Lopez never was. So he still gets my axe for sure.
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Yeah, he would probably be my #11 as well.
 
OKUSA said:
Federer
..
..
..
Murray
Nadal
Hewitt
..
Roddick
Ivanisevic
Philippousis
..
..
Djokovic
Click to expand...

If you're going to include Ivanisevic in the last 12 years discussion, he has to be #2 after Federer.

The only other guy with an argument against Ivanisevic is Nadal, since he won Wimbledon twice, but in retrospect it seems like a joke that Nadal won it twice in the first place.
 
I would agree with the sentiment that Murray belongs over Djokovic at this point, but people taking Queens into account when taking Andy over Novak should take into account that the last 3 years since entering this prime form of his, Djokovic hasn't played either Halle or Queens. To go cold from Roland Garros to Wimbledon without any grass court tennis in between and win title/lose in semi's to eventual champion/lose in final is pretty impressive. We've seen with Rafa this year how difficult that adjustment can be to make without any match time.
 
Federer20042006 said:
If you're going to include Ivanisevic in the last 12 years discussion, he has to be #2 after Federer.

The only other guy with an argument against Ivanisevic is Nadal, since he won Wimbledon twice, but in retrospect it seems like a joke that Nadal won it twice in the first place.
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Probably right, he did make 3 finals and lost 2 to Sampras and 1 to Agassi
 
Ivanisevic's Wimbledon title was technically over 12 years ago, as Wimbledon 2013 is ended, and thus Wimbledon 2001 would be ended now as well, and since then Ivanisevic is....nothing. I do agree Ivanisevic was an amazing grass courter though and far better than virtually everyone (minus Federer) of this era.
 
Murray always looked more comfortable on grass and was the more talented player on the surface to me, and his win today moves him clear above Djokovic and Roddick I would say.

In future years I give him a far greater chance of adding to his grass court haul than Djokovic as well.
 
Strategy said:
Why are people putting Murray ahead of Djokovic on grass? Both have 2 finals and 1 win. Murray has the Olympics, but DJoko made the semi of that.. is that all it takes to put Murray above Djokovic?
Click to expand...

Murray Vs Djokovic on Grass
Matches - 2-0
Sets - 5-0
End of Argument
 
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Strategy said:
Why are people putting Murray ahead of Djokovic on grass? Both have 2 finals and 1 win. Murray has the Olympics, but DJoko made the semi of that.. is that all it takes to put Murray above Djokovic?
Click to expand...

While their Wimbledon records are almost identical, Murray has more titles, fewer losses, and another major title on grass (the Olympics). Djokovic didn't even medal, nor has he ever won a grass court warm-up, reaching only two finals. I think it's clear Murray is better. The margin isn't as big as some might think, but Murray certainly has the better record on grass and seems to be the man to beat these days on the surface.
 
Top level: Federer
2nd level: Nadal
3rd level: Murray, Roddick
4th level: Djokovic, Hewitt
5th level: Berdych, Tsonga, Henman
 
I cant accept Roddick being at a higher level than Hewitt on grass. If someone thinks Roddick is a bit better despite the lack of a Wimbledon title, then fine, but a whole level higher, no way.
 
rosewallGOAT said:
I cant accept Roddick being at a higher level than Hewitt on grass. If someone thinks Roddick is a bit better despite the lack of a Wimbledon title, then fine, but a whole level higher, no way.
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If there was any other player in the world besides Federer in all three of those finals Roddick would have won them all. He really was unfortunate to come up at the same time as Fed. He flat out dominated everyone else on grass in his era.
 
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Why is ARoddick so down below? Yes, he doesn't have a Wimbledon, he should be JUST behind RNadal on the 3rd place. If RFederer didn't exist, he would have had ATLEAST 4 Wimbledons under his belt: '03, '04, '05, '09
It was unfortunate that he played against a prime RFederer on his favourite surface as well.
 
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