kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
All good finds, I’m partial to the two PK’s though.
Best items you found at thrift stores (Goodwill)?
- Thread starter flashfire276
- Start date
Redfrogger2
New User
The prokennex golden ace hits beautifully!
I'm more or an eastern flatter player and I did not need to change my strokes at all for this racquet.
I have a pretty good grasp of different techniques for swings so when I play with wooden racquets I dont hit with spin but go with more of an old school swing.
But man the golden ace felt so nice
It's also the jose luis clerc signature model if that means anything.
SupahMan5000
Hall of Fame
You have a studio setup? I wanna learn how to take product photos like yoursAnd finally, racket #3, stopped by Play it Again Sports, and found this. For $17, a Dunlop M-fil 200. Was this series before or after the Aerogel series? I have far less knowledge about Dunlop frame history compared to Head, Wilson, Prince etc. Reminded me of the Aerogel 200 that James Blake used to use (love Blake). 18x20, 95in head, rough poly of some kind, and heavy! And look at all those relevant stats on the hoop. Every frame should have its balance and stiffness on it! A players stick by any measure, and feels very solid. But multifilament construction? Like what strings are made out of lol? Haven't heard that phrase before when it comes to rackets themselves.
I'm determined to crash this thread page with image overload lol.
still have a design house in Britain?
Not the best fake xray view I've seen on a racket, but not the worst.
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
I use a [pro]master still life studio 28x28 and an old Canon DSLR. That’s it’s really. Just shoot at a high f stop so the whole racket is in focus. I honestly wish they’d make a bigger one, as sometimes the corners of the box are visible and I have to clone them out in photoshop.
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
Alright, this is something I'd typically buy, but as my closet is starting to get worryingly full, I actually left this. Also it was still $30 at Play it Again Sports, so that's higher than my typical buying range lol But it was a brand new in bag Prince Graphite LX. Was this a decent frame around 1990 or so? Was I stupid to leave it, should I run back to see if its still there?
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
At $30 that is a fair price rather than a bargain, but if you haven't got one of the mid-range 'wide-body' Princes from the 88-94 period you should run back and get it, for the groovy paint-job too! They were the most tasteful of the first wide-bodies IMO. First check the strings are still good tension as they need to be >55lbs for control. Despite the name, I believe this one was a composite like the Comp, the Comp XB and a few others. Should be quite stiff / crisp feeling, so using a dampener is usually best.Alright, this is something I'd typically buy, but as my closet is starting to get worryingly full, I actually left this. Also it was still $30 at Play it Again Sports, so that's higher than my typical buying range lol But it was a brand new in bag Prince Graphite LX. Was this a decent frame around 1990 or so? Was I stupid to leave it, should I run back to see if its still there?
I've owned a few wide body frames in the past. I feel like all the advertising the industry put out to sell those frames sent me down a very wrong path. Power is so over rated and I wish I would have figured that out way sooner. Anything over about 22mm that's not made of wood would have to be really special for me to even consider accepting as a gift. 
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
I think these are early 90s given the use of 'Oversize' rather than '110', which was used in the late 80s. It was a slightly strange set of releases by Prince, because on the one hand the quality of construction, paintwork and bags with these rackets were just as good as the top models, but on the other hand they must have been lower graphite content or lower quality graphite to achieve the price-points, which were about half of the top-line Synergys, POG & Graphite II.
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
Speaking of Synergys, I just found a frame that I almost, ALMOST paid $70 for off the auction site for a NOS version. Luckily I had some patience, and found this near mint example at the Play it Again that always comes through for me at least once every other month. For $15, with original bag. There are some slight signs that this was played with, but I bet this thing saw a tennis court for no more than 3 hours in its 25 year life. Solid 9.5 condition. Hey where can I get that Prince 'arrow P' stencil? I need it in my life. Guess that was just a thing on some frames in the 90s, it looks pretty dope to me.
Anyways, the reason I'd been eyeing up this frame should be obvious. Just look at that paint job. This might be my favorite Prince paint work ever, though that purple/green Graphite I posted a couple weeks ago is right up there too. This React (part of the mid range Synergy line of the 90s) is right on the threshold of being too busy looking, but manages to stay on the correct side IMO. This frame may or may not end up suiting me, but it'll have a space on my 'cool wall' forever. Weighing in at 338g is right in my preference zone in terms of static weight however. I'm not usually much for stretch frames, it seems for a while Prince was all-in on their Longbody designs. Well Michael Chang did alright with em that's for sure. I also dig the dampener that's threaded through the strings, no way to lose it now, and leave it for your stringer to deal with lol.
Anyone have any ideas what's up with the grommet strip where it widens up a bit near the throat bridge? Haven't seen that on other Prince frames.
Pictars
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
I did not know that Synergys existed that weren't CTSs, and straight-beamed like this. 'Synergy Series' looks like late 90s to me. What a panoply of technology: Graphite Fusion Titanium, Soft-Shock, Comfort-Grip, Long-Body. I'm probably wrong, but something about the beam-shape and throat joins suggests to me that this is an aluminium racket with graphite/titanium overlays? Does the arrow-P stencil indicate this has a Prince-Key butt-cap?
davced1
Hall of Fame
Very pleased with this one I picked up for 39 swedish kronor (about 4 dollars). Prince Extender Outrage from mid 90's, 104 inches head size, 16x21 string pattern, Graphalu, 650 Power level whatever that means. I have no idea of the rest of the specs as they are not listed on the racquet itself but it feels surprisingly heavy for this type of racquet. Excellent condition almost looks brand new. It's the same racquet model but different paintjob I bought in the mid 90's when I just started playing tennis and played with for a long time before I switched to other racquets. I still play with the original one I got from time to time so I know how this will play. Easy power and depth, surprisingly good control as the beam width is about the same as a Wilson 6.1 classic or similar racquets.
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kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
This one doesn’t have it. I was going to guess it had something to do with it being a Longbody frame. To answer your question about the layup of this model. The grip to the Y-beam is all graphite, then it is literally fused to an alloy hoop. This is the most common way to do a Graphite-Fusion frame. Here’s a list of all the models in this 90s Synergy Series. Some are two piece aluminum low end sticks, some are Fusions, and a few are full graphite. Some are standard length and a few are Longbody style. Headsizss are all OS, from 107, 110, to 115 on the Elite (it came in 110, and 115 sizes).
Prince Synergy series:
Aero
Blaze
Elite
Fusion
Lite
Premier
Pro
React
Reflex
Stick
Tour
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
There's a racket called Synergy Stick? Love it!
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
There is indeed, it appears to be one of the full graphites too.
Amazing. Looks good. This whole series passed me by. I wonder if Stich ever tried the Stick?
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
The limited edition Stich Stick. Sure to be a hot seller lol.
Maybe this series was for North America only?
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
Another pic heavy post, hope people don't mind them too much.
I found what I believe to be the earliest version of the Prince Graphite, the grommetless and non-conjoined throat, made in USA edition. Not in fantastic shape, but the only damage is paint chips, no cracks or anything. So yeah, let us compare it to the other 2 generations I have. The early example weighs in at 364g strung, while the 2 other generations weigh exactly the same at 368g.
Yep its definitely a POG.
wow so smooth and gromettless!
your guess is as good as mine as to what this is code for "119M - 1992" alrighty then.
3 one stripes from left to right, older to newer, one grommetless, one individual grommets, one grommet strip.
Note with each generation the grip gets longer, but overall length is the same.
Not sure if the oldest one on the bottom is missing a sticker, there's no writing anywhere on the frame. All 3 have different style stickers.
Just laid em on top of one another, was trying to get a side profile of the grommets but oh well.
Anyone know why some holes are square and others were round?
Looking for you @Sanglier @retrowagen. I don't have to tag you Mr. Grafil injection because you're always here like me lol.
I found what I believe to be the earliest version of the Prince Graphite, the grommetless and non-conjoined throat, made in USA edition. Not in fantastic shape, but the only damage is paint chips, no cracks or anything. So yeah, let us compare it to the other 2 generations I have. The early example weighs in at 364g strung, while the 2 other generations weigh exactly the same at 368g.
Yep its definitely a POG.
wow so smooth and gromettless!
your guess is as good as mine as to what this is code for "119M - 1992" alrighty then.
3 one stripes from left to right, older to newer, one grommetless, one individual grommets, one grommet strip.
Note with each generation the grip gets longer, but overall length is the same.
Not sure if the oldest one on the bottom is missing a sticker, there's no writing anywhere on the frame. All 3 have different style stickers.
Just laid em on top of one another, was trying to get a side profile of the grommets but oh well.
Anyone know why some holes are square and others were round?
Looking for you @Sanglier @retrowagen. I don't have to tag you Mr. Grafil injection because you're always here like me lol.
Spin-A-Lot
Rookie
The square holes look like the tiny speedports...
Sanglier
Professional
These depressions were molded into the frame using a jig, before the holes were drilled. It's a feature found on all Fansteel-made racquets, and later carried over to Grafalloy. The idea was to create a radiused edge flanking the holes to reduce string-wear on this grommetless design. The alternative was to chamfer the holes after drilling them, which would have required more manual work, and potentially introduced some structural weakness, as it would have removed frame material where it was most needed. All of the holes received this treatment on the outside, though it's harder to see the squared shape inside the string groove. The corner holes also received this treatment on the inside, as the strings are not centered in these, thus requiring more edge support.
Your grommetless frame is a Fansteel original, easily recognized by its blunt grip. This is the butt cap decal missing from most surviving examples:
The one with the individual grommets is an early Kunnan contract, which was followed not long after by the grommet-stripped model with a reworked throat area and a slightly thicker beam. The latter went through several minor cosmetic changes over the next few years before becoming the four-striped model.
Nice haul!
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
Ok thanks so much for the reply! I just got home from hitting with the Gen 1 POG tonight. Wow I simply can't believe this is a frame that actually was released in the 1970s. It just feels light years ahead of anything else made around then. I can see why other manufacturers were quick to try and make 'attack ads' claiming these 'jumbo frames' would hurt peoples games more than help. It was the only weapon they had while playing catch-up lol.These depressions were molded into the frame using a jig, before the holes were drilled. It's a feature found on all Fansteel-made racquets, and later carried over to Grafalloy. The idea was to create a radiused edge flanking the holes to reduce string-wear on this grommetless design. The alternative was to chamfer the holes after drilling them, which would have required more manual work, and potentially introduced some structural weakness, as it would have removed frame material where it was most needed. All of the holes received this treatment on the outside, though it's harder to see the squared shape inside the string groove. The corner holes also received this treatment on the inside, as the strings are not centered in these, thus requiring more edge support.
Your grommetless frame is a Fansteel original, easily recognized by its blunt grip. This is the butt cap decal missing from most surviving examples:
The one with the individual grommets is an early Kunnan contract, which was followed not long after by the grommet-stripped model with a reworked throat area and a slightly thicker beam. The latter went through several minor cosmetic changes over the next few years before becoming the four-striped model.
Nice haul!
So a rough timeline for each of the 3 generations above would be about this:
Gen 1: 1979- ‘80, 81? When did Prince stop USA production of frames, or was there some overlap from when they started contracting with Kunnan Lo?
Gen 2: 1982-83ish?
Gen 3: 1984-85? I saw a NOS on the Bay that had a paper attached with some mid 80s Prince frames like the Spectrum and Precision, and that example had 4 stripes, so I'm assuming it was later than mine above? I'm guessing that means my Gen 3 one stripe with grommet strip is no newer than 1985 unless you disagree.
As always, I love learning about these racket timelines from you guys.
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Sanglier
Professional
The grommetless version was made from 1978 through 1979 by Fansteel (blunt grip), thereafter by Grafalloy (tapered grip) until 1983. A third US manufacturer also produced some frames during the transition period, but these are very rare today. Incidentally, that "119M1992" electropenciled on the butt cap is an individual serial number, seen on all Fansteel production frames. Grafalloy maintained that practice through 1981, but they followed a different format.
The individually-grommeted model emerged in 1983, the earliest of which were produced in the US, the balance by Kunnan. These overlapped with the last of the grommetless frames.
The redesigned, bumpered, grommet-stripped model (like the one you have) followed a year later. All subsequent changes were purely cosmetic, including the 4-striped version, which appeared in 1987.
The first generation POG was for sure influential, but don't forget that PK "Black Ace" was also launched towards the end of 1978. Given how this type of frames came to dominate the market from the mid-'80s onward, and how later POGs had more in common with the "Black Ace" internally than with the first generation original, the 1978 "Black Ace" was arguably even more ahead of its time than the POG.
If you really want to try something that feels like it had traveled back through time, keep an eye out for a BBC "Big Ace", likewise produced during the 1978-1979 time frame, but only 11 Oz strung, with a 95 SqIn head, 28.5" extended length, open-ish string pattern, and 67-70 RA (but not harsh). If there had been a racquet from the '70s that was made for today's game, this would be it. The one non-trivial issue it had was build quality. Its balance was quite erratic, and the very thin-walls were on the fragile side, which didn't go well with the high string tensions in fashion at the time. As a result, not many are still around. However, the somewhat younger and far more common MatchMate "Graphite" was a direct descendant of this frame, and plays very similarly. You can give that racquet a whirl if you are ever curious.
The individually-grommeted model emerged in 1983, the earliest of which were produced in the US, the balance by Kunnan. These overlapped with the last of the grommetless frames.
The redesigned, bumpered, grommet-stripped model (like the one you have) followed a year later. All subsequent changes were purely cosmetic, including the 4-striped version, which appeared in 1987.
The first generation POG was for sure influential, but don't forget that PK "Black Ace" was also launched towards the end of 1978. Given how this type of frames came to dominate the market from the mid-'80s onward, and how later POGs had more in common with the "Black Ace" internally than with the first generation original, the 1978 "Black Ace" was arguably even more ahead of its time than the POG.
If you really want to try something that feels like it had traveled back through time, keep an eye out for a BBC "Big Ace", likewise produced during the 1978-1979 time frame, but only 11 Oz strung, with a 95 SqIn head, 28.5" extended length, open-ish string pattern, and 67-70 RA (but not harsh). If there had been a racquet from the '70s that was made for today's game, this would be it. The one non-trivial issue it had was build quality. Its balance was quite erratic, and the very thin-walls were on the fragile side, which didn't go well with the high string tensions in fashion at the time. As a result, not many are still around. However, the somewhat younger and far more common MatchMate "Graphite" was a direct descendant of this frame, and plays very similarly. You can give that racquet a whirl if you are ever curious.
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
At least in the UK the POG first two versions were rare and initially viewed as a luxury rackets like a Regna today, since it was about twice the price of most others. The aluminium Classic / Pros were much more successful. You would only see them in very nice sports shops in posh towns! It wasn't until the mid-80s Gen 3 that it was getting traction alongside other normal priced graphite sticks.
LeoFulgencio
Rookie
My first thrift store like (non internet) expererience ended with these rackets, total cost converted to US dollars was ~12.
~320 gramms, 18mm beam, flexible
-
~375 gramms, head very flexible, 18 or 18,5 mm beam
-
I was surprised about the open string pattern, little stiffer than the Browning, close to 360 gramms
~320 gramms, 18mm beam, flexible
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~375 gramms, head very flexible, 18 or 18,5 mm beam
-
I was surprised about the open string pattern, little stiffer than the Browning, close to 360 gramms
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
That’s wild! Amazing what you find out there.Not a thrift store, but a Play it Again sports. Not in the best shape, but couldn't resist. TGK 263.1
Bagumbawalla
G.O.A.T.
Just picked up a Spalding Big Bow (made in Belgium) for six dollars.
Like the look of it. I am traveling, but will try it out soon.
Like the look of it. I am traveling, but will try it out soon.
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
That one of the open throat variants?
Bagumbawalla
G.O.A.T.
Yes, I believe it is a wood-laminate, black with a "modern" open-throat design.
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
Well. Broke a racket tonight through normal use. Anyone hazard a guess what it was?
Pour one out for the Super Ace, opponent threw up a deep lob, I went for a baseline overhead, must've caught the ball half off the top of the strings/edge of the frame, and it made a sound like a baseball bat, head came clean off right on the strike of the ball. Until that moment it was playing beautifully.
Also, maybe if I just take pictures of interesting rackets at thrift stores, I don't have to actually buy them all. So lets try a new type of post "somewhat interesting frames Kevin LEFT at Goodwill/Play it Again/random thrift store".
Tour-Spec 200g Dunlop. Left because they actually wanted $45 for it. Play it Again asking actual value? Unheard of! Also it was a bit sticky, it had that rubberized coating on it that starts to degrade after a decade.
Never seen this Spalding before, it looks like a metal racket, but its actually graphite with a separate piece bridge, I suppose this was a short lived thing in the early to mid 80s, on cheaper graphite rackets. So you can make everyone think you're using an even cheaper racket than you actually are!
Unbranded "Challenger" version of the Bill Hart Top Score frame. Looks really neat, would have bought it if they were asking a reasonable price. At $15 though, I'll pass.
Fantastic shape, I'm sure it hits excellent, Pro Kennex Graphite Marquis 60. But for the life of me, I can't tell the difference between this and a Graphite Encore 60, except one is red and the other is blue. So I left it.
This Prince was in great shape too, but I picked the React over it. I actually forget what model this was.
Pour one out for the Super Ace, opponent threw up a deep lob, I went for a baseline overhead, must've caught the ball half off the top of the strings/edge of the frame, and it made a sound like a baseball bat, head came clean off right on the strike of the ball. Until that moment it was playing beautifully.
Also, maybe if I just take pictures of interesting rackets at thrift stores, I don't have to actually buy them all. So lets try a new type of post "somewhat interesting frames Kevin LEFT at Goodwill/Play it Again/random thrift store".
Tour-Spec 200g Dunlop. Left because they actually wanted $45 for it. Play it Again asking actual value? Unheard of! Also it was a bit sticky, it had that rubberized coating on it that starts to degrade after a decade.
Never seen this Spalding before, it looks like a metal racket, but its actually graphite with a separate piece bridge, I suppose this was a short lived thing in the early to mid 80s, on cheaper graphite rackets. So you can make everyone think you're using an even cheaper racket than you actually are!
Unbranded "Challenger" version of the Bill Hart Top Score frame. Looks really neat, would have bought it if they were asking a reasonable price. At $15 though, I'll pass.
Fantastic shape, I'm sure it hits excellent, Pro Kennex Graphite Marquis 60. But for the life of me, I can't tell the difference between this and a Graphite Encore 60, except one is red and the other is blue. So I left it.
This Prince was in great shape too, but I picked the React over it. I actually forget what model this was.
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vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
That Spalding is from the mid 80’s. I believe it’s aluminum frame with a graphite reinforced plastic throat bridge.Well. Broke a racket tonight through normal use. Anyone hazard a guess what it was?
Pour one out for the Super Ace, opponent threw up a deep lob, I went for a baseline overhead, must've caught the ball half off the top of the strings/edge of the frame, and it made a sound like a baseball bat, head came clean off right on the strike of the ball. Until that moment it was playing beautifully.
Also, maybe if I just take pictures of interesting rackets at thrift stores, I don't have to actually buy them all. So lets try a new type of post "somewhat interesting frames Kevin LEFT at Goodwill/Play it Again/random thrift store".
Tour-Spec 200g Dunlop. Left because they actually wanted $45 for it. Play it Again asking actual value? Unheard of! Also it was a bit sticky, it had that rubberized coating on it that starts to degrade after a decade.
Never seen this Spalding before, it looks like a metal racket, but its actually graphite with a separate piece bridge, I suppose this was a short lived thing in the early to mid 80s, on cheaper graphite rackets. So you can make everyone think you're using an even cheaper racket than you actually are!
Unbranded "Challenger" version of the Bill Hart Top Score frame. Looks really neat, would have bought it if they were asking a reasonable price. At $15 though, I'll pass.
Fantastic shape, I'm sure it hits excellent, Pro Kennex Graphite Marquis 60. But for the life of me, I can't tell the difference between this and a Graphite Encore 60, except one is red and the other is blue. So I left it.
This Prince was in great shape too, but I picked the React over it. I actually forget what model this was.
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Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
Well. Broke a racket tonight through normal use. Anyone hazard a guess what it was?
Pour one out for the Super Ace, opponent threw up a deep lob, I went for a baseline overhead, must've caught the ball half off the top of the strings/edge of the frame, and it made a sound like a baseball bat, head came clean off right on the strike of the ball. Until that moment it was playing beautifully.
Also, maybe if I just take pictures of interesting rackets at thrift stores, I don't have to actually buy them all. So lets try a new type of post "somewhat interesting frames Kevin LEFT at Goodwill/Play it Again/random thrift store".
Tour-Spec 200g Dunlop. Left because they actually wanted $45 for it. Play it Again asking actual value? Unheard of! Also it was a bit sticky, it had that rubberized coating on it that starts to degrade after a decade.
Never seen this Spalding before, it looks like a metal racket, but its actually graphite with a separate piece bridge, I suppose this was a short lived thing in the early to mid 80s, on cheaper graphite rackets. So you can make everyone think you're using an even cheaper racket than you actually are!
Unbranded "Challenger" version of the Bill Hart Top Score frame. Looks really neat, would have bought it if they were asking a reasonable price. At $15 though, I'll pass.
Fantastic shape, I'm sure it hits excellent, Pro Kennex Graphite Marquis 60. But for the life of me, I can't tell the difference between this and a Graphite Encore 60, except one is red and the other is blue. So I left it.
This Prince was in great shape too, but I picked the React over it. I actually forget what model this was.
Admirable discernment I think. The Sears always looked like a Walmart special to me. Yes, shame that the HotMelt lives up to its name over time; very hard to find clean ones. The Spalding graphite with plastic bridge appears very similar to various mid-low range Taiwan Brownings. The PK and Prince are clearly low-range. The 'S' Challenger looks most interesting to me. Might be worth another look if it's just cosmetic issues, especially if there's a potential leather grip to repurpose. I had some great success recently with a couple of £5 sticks that had £20 worth leather grips I could transfer.
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
So anyways, I left all those things, but walked out with this, which was priced at $9.99. Wilson Sting Largehead, anyone have any experience with this line? I have the Sting SC and Sting remake from the mid 2000's already. I think this is the original if I'm not mistaken? 110in, 360g strung (actually 2 grams less than the 85in Sting SC) and looks to be aimed squarely at taking on the POG. I always love a glossy black box beam frame, with that solid, not hollow feel to it, just feels higher end to me. I'll have to see how it compares with the POG. Hopefully next time I play I can make sure my camera rig actually makes it to the court, and isn't left next to the garage door like it was last time... Can't believe my racket head snap went undocumented...
Anyways:
Anyways:
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PBODY99
Legend
@kevin qmto
At 1/2 the price of the POG & endorsed by Vic Braden, I picked one up as I was dealing with a shoulder injury from a major bike crash. Used it that season while I healed.
At 1/2 the price of the POG & endorsed by Vic Braden, I picked one up as I was dealing with a shoulder injury from a major bike crash. Used it that season while I healed.
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
The Sting largehead sold for half the price of a POG? At 100% graphite how'd they ever made a profit at the time? I mean, I know the POG was like over $200 but still.
Sanglier
Professional
The original 1982-1983 grommetless "Sting Largehead" was indeed a pseudo-copy of the POG, all the way down to those squared string holes in the corners that you had asked about earlier. It was made by Grafalloy alongside the POG, using the same materials, and following the same Fansteel production protocol. The average specs between these two models are virtually identical. However, despite having to pay Prince royalty for each racquet sold, Wilson set the MSRP for the "Sting Largehead" at only $170, instead of POG's $295. It was an aggressive move to cut into POG's market share, but the dramatically lower price might have given some consumers the erroneous impression that the "Sting" was a cheap imitation, made to a lower quality standard than the POG; which was probably not Wilson's intent!
Prince bought Grafalloy around that time and shut down the OEM operation, which put a permanent end to the production of racquets using the method originally developed and patented by Fansteel. Their original plan was to continue producing racquets in the US, but Kunnan soon won them over. Wilson was in the process of moving their own production to St Vincent, while also relying on their Taiwanese contractors to pick up the slack during the transition. The last of the grommetless "Sting Largehead"s were made (or finished using leftover materials from Grafalloy) in St Vincent during 1984, but most of the "Largehead"s produced that year were of the new individually-grommeted type, and came predominantly from Long-Yi (AKA Long-Tai, AKA Marshal Corporation). Yours is one of these (the "L" is for "Long-Yi", the "G" indicates the year-1984, the "W" is a lot/batch code). A smaller number of 1984 "Largehead"s were also produced by SanHoSun, which alone made 200,000 frames for Wilson that year. Long-Yi/Marshal continued to make racquets for Wilson for at least another 4-5 years, though not nearly at the same rate as SanHoSun.
The Long-Yi-made "Sting Largehead" retailed for only $129 in 1984 (about $380 in 2023 dollars), while the Kunnan-made POG retailed for $250 ($730 in 2023). As was the case at Grafalloy a year earlier, the cost of making these two frames in Taiwan was also roughly the same - about $20 ($58 in 2023), per Kunnan's own estimate, at the volume he was making these things. The per-unit production cost at Grafalloy was at least 3x that, if not higher. The way the Taiwanese contractors priced these frames for their clients - they would take their own cost, and the estimated cost of making the racquets in the US, split the difference, and use that as the starting point for the negotiation. Even if the wholesale price of these racquets had been 50% of their MSRP, by shifting production to Taiwan, Wilson was able to make some money, while Prince was for sure making a ton more money!
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
I was wondering why the large-head rackets not made by Prince weren't successful in the early 80s. Wilson had this Sting and Sting 2, PS 110 & 125 and a few other oversizes as did other companies, but I don't recall any of them cutting through like the Princes. I suppose (i) Prince had developed a successful presence with the 110 Classic & Pro then POG, so they were seen as the masters of oversize, and (ii) the other companies had high performance midsizes, which were already considered 'large' at the time, so the oversizes were just overkill from those companies. Was it also that the Prince patent meant the rivals had to be slightly bigger than 110sqi, when Princes were 107sqi, so the rivals were a bit too big for manoeuvrability at high weight?
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
If the Stings were around $100-120 when new, that would still make them about twice the price of the best woods and 50% more than many upper mid-range competitors like PK Silver Ace, Wilson Aggressor, Black Max etc ($80). It's just POGs were obscenely priced, even if they did come with the lovely velvet cases.
PBODY99
Legend
My club was connect with Wilson and the Sting Mid was the model most of the players used. Iwas one of the few who used the Sting 110. Temple's former Mens BasketBall coach John Chaney used the Wilson Pro Staff when they were released.
Prince marketed their frames by giving the teaching Pros the PRO which was slightly stiffer and sold at the pro shop.
Prince marketed their frames by giving the teaching Pros the PRO which was slightly stiffer and sold at the pro shop.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
Wilson sold the Sting $100 less than the Prince Graphite. Wilson used the same OEM in California and had to pay Prince for the use of the patent of the Oversize frame. I never understood how Wilson made any money. Its like British Leyland selling the Mini at a loss on every car sold.
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kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
Fantastic write up. Answering many questions before I even had the chance to ask them! I honestly never even knew the names of any other Taiwanese factory other than Kunnan Lo. Were those other two as prevalent in making rackets for other western brands or did they only work with specific companies? And did they have their own in house brand like Pro Kennex was for Kunnan Lo?
Back to the Sting though, I wonder if Wilson made any claim that the arch in the support beam actually did anything, or was it to slightly differentiate itself from the POG.
Sanglier
Professional
The arched brace/stabilizer reduced twist in the open throat, which is meant to promote control on off-center shots. Wilson made it arched to look different from POG, one would assume, as they never explained why it would behave any differently than the straight one on the POG.
Taiwan had a handful of racquet makers in the '60s and '70s, mainly sub-contracting for Japanese producers. Their number exploded in the early 80s with the onset of the graphite era (there is a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing going on here, as the massive global switch to graphite racquets may not have happened so quickly without this explosion of makers). By mid 1985, there were by some account 84 factories making racquets in central Taiwan, supported by a whole eco-system of mold manufacturers, metal foundries, string-makers, grip tape and bag-producers, etc. Kunnan was one of the earliest, biggest, and best-known of these frame makers, in part because Lo was such a charismatic character, and utterly fearless in expanding his business empire, for which he eventually paid dearly. There was a lot of incestual relationship between all these factories, as many of them were started by alumni from the established makers, some of whom retained good working relationship with their former employers and sub-contracted for the latter. Just because Kunnan won the contract and delivered the finished product doesn't always mean that it came out of his own factory! However, only the half-a-dozen or so top contractors ran their business in a financially sound and sustainable fashion, the rest eventually destroyed themselves by racing to the bottom through their cutthroat price war (in part encouraged by their foreign clients, some of whom used a divide-and-conquer approach to drive down the bids). Those who survived did so by moving their factories to the Mainland in the early '90s, where they continue to be responsible for many of the "Made in China" frames to this day.
Some Taiwanese makers did market house-brands, but none of them took off the way PK did, in part because PK pretended to be an American brand from its inception, with a California-based marketing operation run by "real" Americans, who, according to PK alumni in Taiwan, took home the lion's share of the profits. Kuebler had identified "Madison" as the house brand of Taiwan-Strong, one of the other major contractors. I suspect the name was inspired at least in part by Kunnan's initial effort to call his brand "Kennedy". After Kunnan got into legal and financial trouble and was forced to exit PK, the latter was eventually sold to Taiwan-Strong in the early 2000s, so you could say that PK became Taiwan-Strong's house brand thereafter. Other reasonably successful house brands included Antelop, Wintide, RoxPro, Bonny, etc., of which only Bonny is still around, though their racquets are not marketed in the US in any significant way.
I don't think the tiny difference, if any, in head size was a determining factor in how people perceived these racquets. Rather, I suspect there is a bit of a wine-tasting psychology going on behind the impressions, where an expensive wine tends to taste better than a cheap alternative, so long as you know ahead of time which one is expensive and which one is cheap (or which one is French and which one is not). Even today, if you switched "Made in China" with "Made in Germany" labels on comparable products, I suspect user impressions can be altered in some interesting ways depending on the crowd.
Wilson should have priced their "Sting Largehead" $20-$30 less than the POG to signify that they were equals, not 50% less! However, at the time they were also promoting their own super expensive line, the Ultras, with MSRP between $280 (Standard) and $360 (OS), made in-house in Illinois, so perhaps this was their way of showing that the Ultras were so much better (more than 2x better?) than the POG, in a very roundabout way that didn't really register with their intended audience.
michael valek
Hall of Fame
However almost everything made by British Leyland was utter crap. My first car was a mini and even though I loved it and it was great fun, it was utterly crap. If you put 3 people in it the brakes were noticeably less effective.
michael valek
Hall of Fame
And I recently picked up an ultra2 midsize. It’s actually lighter than my max200’s but much more powerful and spin-friendly. Requires further research. Shame they are so tough to find in Europe. It feels much nicer than the ps85 although I haven’t hit with one of those for a few years.
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
Bring back 1950s Alvis or Aston Martins!
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
I find most of the early 1980s Wilson mid-sizes play fine, but none of them have an interesting feeling apart from the PS85. It's like they used some sort of boring graphite with no personality!
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
Hence, Wilson moved manufacturing to Taiwan and the UK gave up making cars!
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
Wilson kept making racquet in their own factory in St. Vincent until 1990. Also Wilson went to Taiwan for the Sting when Prince did for the same because Prince ended up owning the factory in California. So Prince and Wilson used Kunnan Lo in Taiwan.
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
When did Prince stop manufacturing in California?
For the Sting, I suppose Wilson also had many other rackets in the Taiwan pipeline so economies of scale would have been great. Apart from the cross-bar mid-80s POG is very similar to Spectrum Comp, which was also about half the price. So for me the POG was very expensive, with a price of $200 in the early 80s being equivalent to about $500 today. By the late 80s that was a more realistic price compared to others.
