Best of 3 sets (video)

E46luver

Professional
enough with serve crap
distracting advice here.

the serve is the last thing you should work on
never waste another minute practicing serves.
all your opponents have garbage serves, yet you still lose.

focus on movement and shot selection
if you want to win matches.

want to win matches?
look at what match winners do
its not the serve
 

Curious

Legend
ur getting terrible and distracting advice here.

the serve is the last thing you should work on
never waste another minute practicing serves.
all your opponents have garbage serves, yet you still lose.

focus on movement and shot selection
if you want to win matches.

want to win matches?
look at what match winners do
its not the serve
My serve in the next match will disprove your theory.;)
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
enough with serve crap
distracting advice here.

the serve is the last thing you should work on
never waste another minute practicing serves.
all your opponents have garbage serves, yet you still lose.

focus on movement and shot selection
if you want to win matches.

want to win matches?
look at what match winners do
its not the serve
enough with serve crap
distracting advice here.

the serve is the last thing you should work on
never waste another minute practicing serves.
all your opponents have garbage serves, yet you still lose.

focus on movement and shot selection
if you want to win matches.

want to win matches?
look at what match winners do
its not the serve
If your serve is good enough, you don't have to move.

J
 

Curious

Legend
If your serve is good enough, you don't have to move.

J
I don't want to get ahead of myself but it was crossing my mind. I guess everyone will agree that my serve is quite a bit higher than my overall level. So the question is, if I develop a serve that you would typically see at 4.5-5.0 level wouldn't that make a big difference at my overall 3.0-3.5 level tennis?
 

E46luver

Professional
that guy is trolling you
stop wasting your time
you are never going to develop a 5.0 serve
u will blow out your shoulder long before you get the reps in
you seriously want a 5.0 serve and a 3.0 bh ?

if u want to drill reaction then pick one thing
and then drill it for 5 hours
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't want to get ahead of myself but it was crossing my mind. I guess everyone will agree that my serve is quite a bit higher than my overall level. So the question is, if I develop a serve that you would typically see at 4.5-5.0 level wouldn't that make a big difference at my overall 3.0-3.5 level tennis?
Yea, you get six shots at breaking your opponent and worst case you play a tiebreaker.

J
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
that guy is trolling you
stop wasting your time
you are never going to develop a 5.0 serve
u will blow out your shoulder long before you get the reps in
you seriously want a 5.0 serve and a 3.0 bh ?

if u want to drill reaction then pick one thing
and then drill it for 5 hours
Yes, the actual 5.0 is trolling and the 3.75 who has been playing for 2 years has all the answers.

J
 

E46luver

Professional
green haedbadn player is very good
he cruhess the ball hard, adn has excelelnt serve
you maed soem great shots, but i will foucs only on mistakes IMHO set 2
at 0:07, you did nto evne reatc to approach shot
your rcaket prep seesm ltae that wlil take 2-3 motnhs to fxi
at :24, you drpo shot adn ddi nto follwo it in
you aer messnig up serve+1 but I will attribute that to green heabdand's killre sevre retrun aiblity. you are getting cauhgt totally off guadr by hsi bullet rtuerns
wyh ddi u sclie :42 ?
sevre return at 1:20 arm is betn, too close to blal
1:39 why u wathcing the blal dorp in ?
1:47 wyh you hit to middle? cursh that short ball into cornre. taht is not ralyl ball
1:50 wyh slcie? no topspni? slicde rihgt to opponetn
fh at 2:27, yr weigth is flaling backwrads? you're not used to suhc a fast hitter ?
3:20 you should hti taht to bh cornre, not dierctly to him . yuo need to drlil approach shost inot cornre?
4:19 you ruetrn dropshot with yr onw drposhot. insetad yuo hti to oppoent and he lbos you. laern dropshto
4:34 wyh u not stick racekt out? gave up too early
4:40 why nto hit to oepn court? you hit right bakc to opponent. wehn step in, u hti nwe dircetion, not cc rally ball. ATTAK SHORT BALL TO OPEN COUTR !
4:58 i tihnk yuo stadning in wrong place. can somenoe confimr ?
6:28 Yes
Stop slciing bakc serev retunrs. mankig tosn of errors
7:37 drpo shot, u should be running forawdr
8:25 lol
look at how ltae your rcaekt prep is at 8:47 eenv on slowets ball, you satdn adn wathc. lsat second yuo turn bdyo as part of swing. drill this to recat imemd to corecrt fh or bh
smae thing at 9:10. veyr late. just watching the ball
10:07 eihter tosppin or dropsoht form below net
10:13 do'nt rnu fowrard when yuo hti weak ball to his fh
11:28 graet drosphot, nwo move to net. u should hvae volleyde ttha nxet soht
12:01 excellent point!
 

Curious

Legend
green haedbadn player is very good
he cruhess the ball hard, adn has excelelnt serve
you maed soem great shots, but i will foucs only on mistakes IMHO set 2
at 0:07, you did nto evne reatc to approach shot
your rcaket prep seesm ltae that wlil take 2-3 motnhs to fxi
at :24, you drpo shot adn ddi nto follwo it in
you aer messnig up serve+1 but I will attribute that to green heabdand's killre sevre retrun aiblity. you are getting cauhgt totally off guadr by hsi bullet rtuerns
wyh ddi u sclie :42 ?
sevre return at 1:20 arm is betn, too close to blal
1:39 why u wathcing the blal dorp in ?
1:47 wyh you hit to middle? cursh that short ball into cornre. taht is not ralyl ball
1:50 wyh slcie? no topspni? slicde rihgt to opponetn
fh at 2:27, yr weigth is flaling backwrads? you're not used to suhc a fast hitter ?
3:20 you should hti taht to bh cornre, not dierctly to him . yuo need to drlil approach shost inot cornre?
4:19 you ruetrn dropshot with yr onw drposhot. insetad yuo hti to oppoent and he lbos you. laern dropshto
4:34 wyh u not stick racekt out? gave up too early
4:40 why nto hit to oepn court? you hit right bakc to opponent. wehn step in, u hti nwe dircetion, not cc rally ball. ATTAK SHORT BALL TO OPEN COUTR !
4:58 i tihnk yuo stadning in wrong place. can somenoe confimr ?
6:28 Yes
Stop slciing bakc serev retunrs. mankig tosn of errors
7:37 drpo shot, u should be running forawdr
8:25 lol
look at how ltae your rcaekt prep is at 8:47 eenv on slowets ball, you satdn adn wathc. lsat second yuo turn bdyo as part of swing. drill this to recat imemd to corecrt fh or bh
smae thing at 9:10. veyr late. just watching the ball
10:07 eihter tosppin or dropsoht form below net
10:13 do'nt rnu fowrard when yuo hti weak ball to his fh
11:28 graet drosphot, nwo move to net. u should hvae volleyde ttha nxet soht
12:01 excellent point!
Thanks for your time. Will need to check these points later.
 

Curious

Legend
green haedbadn player is very good
he cruhess the ball hard, adn has excelelnt serve
you maed soem great shots, but i will foucs only on mistakes IMHO set 2
at 0:07, you did nto evne reatc to approach shot
your rcaket prep seesm ltae that wlil take 2-3 motnhs to fxi
at :24, you drpo shot adn ddi nto follwo it in
you aer messnig up serve+1 but I will attribute that to green heabdand's killre sevre retrun aiblity. you are getting cauhgt totally off guadr by hsi bullet rtuerns
wyh ddi u sclie :42 ?
sevre return at 1:20 arm is betn, too close to blal
1:39 why u wathcing the blal dorp in ?
1:47 wyh you hit to middle? cursh that short ball into cornre. taht is not ralyl ball
1:50 wyh slcie? no topspni? slicde rihgt to opponetn
fh at 2:27, yr weigth is flaling backwrads? you're not used to suhc a fast hitter ?
3:20 you should hti taht to bh cornre, not dierctly to him . yuo need to drlil approach shost inot cornre?
4:19 you ruetrn dropshot with yr onw drposhot. insetad yuo hti to oppoent and he lbos you. laern dropshto
4:34 wyh u not stick racekt out? gave up too early
4:40 why nto hit to oepn court? you hit right bakc to opponent. wehn step in, u hti nwe dircetion, not cc rally ball. ATTAK SHORT BALL TO OPEN COUTR !
4:58 i tihnk yuo stadning in wrong place. can somenoe confimr ?
6:28 Yes
Stop slciing bakc serev retunrs. mankig tosn of errors
7:37 drpo shot, u should be running forawdr
8:25 lol
look at how ltae your rcaekt prep is at 8:47 eenv on slowets ball, you satdn adn wathc. lsat second yuo turn bdyo as part of swing. drill this to recat imemd to corecrt fh or bh
smae thing at 9:10. veyr late. just watching the ball
10:07 eihter tosppin or dropsoht form below net
10:13 do'nt rnu fowrard when yuo hti weak ball to his fh
11:28 graet drosphot, nwo move to net. u should hvae volleyde ttha nxet soht
12:01 excellent point!
I watched them all and agree with almost all those points. I need more experience and smartness. I hope the first one is the bigger factor!
 

Powderwombat

Semi-Pro
First one I watched I was waiting for one of those Happy Gilmore serves where they take 3 steps during the motion, but he didn't move forward at all lol.
 
I don't want to get ahead of myself but it was crossing my mind. I guess everyone will agree that my serve is quite a bit higher than my overall level. So the question is, if I develop a serve that you would typically see at 4.5-5.0 level wouldn't that make a big difference at my overall 3.0-3.5 level tennis?
Well, yes and no. Improving your serve will absolutely help you win more. The serve is the most important shot in the game. But even with a vastly improved serve, there's going to be a cap as to how much it can help you win against better overall players, as you have too many other skills that are still under developed. However, you should notice a huge difference against players at a similar level or maybe even a half point higher NTRP rating. If you're playing 3.0 and 3.5 players, a truly good serve should able to help you dominate those type of players...but even a 3.5 player at some point in a match is going to be able to back up and at least block the ball back into play, so you have to be able to back the serve up somewhat...but what it should do is give you a lot more free points, shorter returns, more opportunities to come to net, and so forth. This all should equate to vastly more wins.

In regards to USTA ratings, the NTRP rating system has a very good rubric for determining levels of a player. For instance, a 4.0 NTRP rating is described as "This player has dependable strokes with directional control and the ability to alter depth of shots on both forehand and backhand sides during moderately paced play. This player also has the ability to use lobs, overheads, approach shots, and volleys with success. This player occasionally forces errors when serving. Points may be lost due to impatience. Teamwork in doubles is evident."

A 4.5 player is described as, "This player can vary the use of pace and spins, has effective court coverage, can control depth of shots, and is able to develop game plans according to strengths and weaknesses. This player can hit the first serve with power and accuracy and can place the second serve. This player tends to overhit on difficult shots. Aggressive net play is common in doubles."

Even with a very improved serve, you are not going to fit the characteristics of a 4.5 player. In some ways, I think you exhibit some evidence of the traits of a 4.0 NTRP level now, but your consistency / stroke dependability is probably lacking. However, I think getting to this level (4.0) could definitely be obtained with improvement over the next year. Sometimes improvement in tennis is not necessarily linear. You might be surprised that as you begin to improve your footwork, your stroke consistency may improve dramatically.

My last blurb is in regards to comments that were made about drilling pattern play. I think this is very helpful, as it does remove a lot of decision making and thinking that needs to be done. However, I don't think you need to get overly complicated at this juncture, so pick some general patterns you can utilize the most in a match For instance, at lower levels of play, the pattern I would encourage you to use is hit it to their weaker side (usually their backhand), and keep hitting it there until you get a short ball, then attack / approach the net. This may not seem as exciting as running someone from side to side or trying to blast winners from the baseline, but it's a strategy that will win matches at lower levels of play. There are other basic baseline patterns like 2-1, where you hit two forehands to the opponents backhand side, and then the 3rd forehand you take cross court. I wouldn't get too fixated on trying to learn 3 or 4 different patterns right now. Pick one or two general ones you think fit best and spend your time focusing on more important things such as footwork and movement.
 

Curious

Legend
Well, yes and no. Improving your serve will absolutely help you win more. The serve is the most important shot in the game. But even with a vastly improved serve, there's going to be a cap as to how much it can help you win against better overall players, as you have too many other skills that are still under developed. However, you should notice a huge difference against players at a similar level or maybe even a half point higher NTRP rating. If you're playing 3.0 and 3.5 players, a truly good serve should able to help you dominate those type of players...but even a 3.5 player at some point in a match is going to be able to back up and at least block the ball back into play, so you have to be able to back the serve up somewhat...but what it should do is give you a lot more free points, shorter returns, more opportunities to come to net, and so forth. This all should equate to vastly more wins.

In regards to USTA ratings, the NTRP rating system has a very good rubric for determining levels of a player. For instance, a 4.0 NTRP rating is described as "This player has dependable strokes with directional control and the ability to alter depth of shots on both forehand and backhand sides during moderately paced play. This player also has the ability to use lobs, overheads, approach shots, and volleys with success. This player occasionally forces errors when serving. Points may be lost due to impatience. Teamwork in doubles is evident."

A 4.5 player is described as, "This player can vary the use of pace and spins, has effective court coverage, can control depth of shots, and is able to develop game plans according to strengths and weaknesses. This player can hit the first serve with power and accuracy and can place the second serve. This player tends to overhit on difficult shots. Aggressive net play is common in doubles."

Even with a very improved serve, you are not going to fit the characteristics of a 4.5 player. In some ways, I think you exhibit some evidence of the traits of a 4.0 NTRP level now, but your consistency / stroke dependability is probably lacking. However, I think getting to this level (4.0) could definitely be obtained with improvement over the next year. Sometimes improvement in tennis is not necessarily linear. You might be surprised that as you begin to improve your footwork, your stroke consistency may improve dramatically.

My last blurb is in regards to comments that were made about drilling pattern play. I think this is very helpful, as it does remove a lot of decision making and thinking that needs to be done. However, I don't think you need to get overly complicated at this juncture, so pick some general patterns you can utilize the most in a match For instance, at lower levels of play, the pattern I would encourage you to use is hit it to their weaker side (usually their backhand), and keep hitting it there until you get a short ball, then attack / approach the net. This may not seem as exciting as running someone from side to side or trying to blast winners from the baseline, but it's a strategy that will win matches at lower levels of play. There are other basic baseline patterns like 2-1, where you hit two forehands to the opponents backhand side, and then the 3rd forehand you take cross court. I wouldn't get too fixated on trying to learn 3 or 4 different patterns right now. Pick one or two general ones you think fit best and spend your time focusing on more important things such as footwork and movement.
Good overall assessment.
About the patterns, how about going cross court persistently until a clear opportunity to hit a winner comes up with a short ball or very open court for an approach shot? That literally eliminates all thinking: I’ll hit everything cross court. That’s the only thinking basically.
 

Curious

Legend
A little off topic but relevant, I’ve always been impressed by how quickly pro players turn and get ready for the incoming ball. They turn as quickly for a groundstroke as a rec player turns for a volley at the net! This is a great example here. Look at Thiem’s position at the moment the ball hits the net. I froze the video there to see it clearly.


 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
how about going cross court persistently until a clear opportunity to hit a winner comes up with a short ball or very open court for an approach shot? That literally eliminates all thinking: I’ll hit everything cross court. That’s the only thinking basically.
CC is generally the preferred shot (safer shot), unless he has a weaker side, in which case you should attack his weakness. But let's say his FH=BH, then generally you should be going CC unless you get a short ball to attack. This is "Wardlaw's Directionals" in a nutshell.

CC you have longer court to hit into and you are hitting over the lowest part of the net, so generally higher-percentage play than DTL over highest part of net into shorter court.
 

Sir Weed

Professional
A little off topic but relevant, I’ve always been impressed by how quickly pro players turn and get ready for the incoming ball. They turn as quickly for a groundstroke as a rec player turns for a volley at the net!

Mental approach: no matter how fast the incoming ball is it should feel like you're waiting for the ball - prepare so that, having a clear picture of what you're going to do with the ball, you feel bored while the ball is approaching contact point.
 
Good overall assessment.
About the patterns, how about going cross court persistently until a clear opportunity to hit a winner comes up with a short ball or very open court for an approach shot? That literally eliminates all thinking: I’ll hit everything cross court. That’s the only thinking basically.
@IowaGuy response above is spot on. In the case where the opponent has a weaker backhand, what ideally should happen is should be able to control the middle of the court by hitting inside out forehands to the backhand corner. You are still hitting over the low part of the net and you still are getting the extra diagonal length. You are forcing the opponent to try to hit a sharper angle to get it to your backhand side or forcing them to go for a tougher shot down the line, both of which are harder shots for most players off their weaker side. And, of course, you don't have to do that just off your forehand. Use that backhand slice to hit low, deep slices to the opponents backhand corner. Most players at lower levels don't have much ability to attack or blast a winner from the backcourt on a deep ball, especially one with little pace like a slice. If you'll be patient, you'll eventually get a short ball you can attack! If you have a cooperative partner that is able to do so, you can practice hitting two or three balls deep like normal rallying, but ask have him to hit a short ball on purpose during the rally at some point . Play it out like a real point. This will help you work on your approach shots, short ball recognition, footwork, and volleys. Your opponent can work on passing shots and defensive skills. If your partner can't really rally well, you can do a 3 ball drill where guy feeds a short ball, you approach, he feeds you a ball to volley, and third ball can be a lob that you have to back up and hit an overhead. That's a good drill to do, as you get to hit several types of shots (approach, volley, overhead), makes you work on footwork, and it's more game like (versus someone feeding you 50 balls and hitting 50 cross court forehands).
 

pencilcheck

Professional
my theory that no rec players can have disproportionate skill sets across their game is that if you can get to 4.5+ serve (even though you also might double fault a lot) you will need to acquire fundamentals that also helps in other parts of your game. Tennis is very technical but a lot of skill sets are transferable.
 

Curious

Legend
my theory that no rec players can have disproportionate skill sets across their game is that if you can get to 4.5+ serve (even though you also might double fault a lot) you will need to acquire fundamentals that also helps in other parts of your game. Tennis is very technical but a lot of skill sets are transferable.
But I believe serve is still a unique one in that it’s the only shot where the ball is not in play, no movement is involved and it’s independent of your opponent. Furthermore it’s the only shot one can always practice on their own.
 

pencilcheck

Professional
But I believe serve is still a unique one in that it’s the only shot where the ball is not in play, no movement is involved and it’s independent of your opponent. Furthermore it’s the only shot one can always practice on their own.
Well technically based on your logic it actually makes it harder because you have to produce all forces yourself you have to control the placement yourself and toss is one of the hardest things to master in high level serve coupled with the body position to support that. The technique required to hit with a lot of spin and pace cannot be brushed off just because you have full control of the ball placement. If that’s the case shouldn’t serve be the easiest to master in tennis?

However I believe the trick to increase serve is also shared with other shots, if you know how to hit better such as forehand and backhand, sliced, then it would be easier to hit faster, more accurate serve
 

Curious

Legend
Well technically based on your logic it actually makes it harder because you have to produce all forces yourself you have to control the placement yourself and toss is one of the hardest things to master in high level serve coupled with the body position to support that. The technique required to hit with a lot of spin and pace cannot be brushed off just because you have full control of the ball placement. If that’s the case shouldn’t serve be the easiest to master in tennis?

However I believe the trick to increase serve is also shared with other shots, if you know how to hit better such as forehand and backhand, sliced, then it would be easier to hit faster, more accurate serve
I worked a lot on my serve. Now it’s as easy and uncomplicated as hitting a ball that’s hanging in the air.
 

Curious

Legend
No, the rest of your game looks fine.

If you serve more aces or unreturnable, you'll hardly need anything else. Or you 'll need the rest of your game to be "complimentary"
The rest of the game is not fine but you’re right, I exaggerated my serve. It’s not there yet.
 
I should read all the comments in this thread, but I'm too lazy, I still want some tennis internet points so here goes in chronological order of watching the 2 vids.

1. Your forehand, nice form, consistent form, let's not treat the ball like a nice puppy or baby you are putting into the pool and gently pushing it forward, develop some whip with the wrist and the forearm. Like the pool reference is the push forward on the ball is like whoosh on the surface of the pool, brush up and out of the water as you go forward. Ah, this analogy sucks.

2. Stand closer to the T when serving, but your opponent, what the heck? Lol, kill him down the line if he is going to stand way out there when serving and then he just watches his serve and stays way out there.

3. Backhand slice, it's consistent, but so much the same everytime, it starts at the left shoulder then whooshes in front of you ending near the right thigh or knee, it's like there is a a wasp actually on your shorts you are trying to swipe off. The ball is always the same, kind of slow and arching and spinning the same way, a little predictable. Try developing a more attacking slice that lands deeper in the court by moving the racket still shoulder to a downward angle, but not so upside down windshield wiper, more diagonally forward.

I really liked the consistency of the strokes though, that's a great base to build on and the net clearance was really good.
 

Curious

Legend
One issue to clarify:
When do you start your recovery movement?
1. As soon as you hit the ball
2. After completing your follow through
3. Watch the ball go , land on the other side, now you can start to recover, what’s the rush for?! ( me )
 
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