Mainad
Bionic Poster
Thanks.
Best players in each country not to win a Slam
- Thread starter Mainad
- Start date
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Deleted member 307496
Guest
Byron Black is the best tennis player from Zimbabwe.
He has a QF at Wimbledon (2000) and a QF at the US Open (1995).
A career high rank of 22 also.
He has a QF at Wimbledon (2000) and a QF at the US Open (1995).
A career high rank of 22 also.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
@Mainad Thanks for putting up this thread. It has given me a few things to think about. I find it interesting that some nations produced many successful players from one gender but not the other, whereas others are more mixed. Czech Republic has obviously overproduced in both genders, but besides Croatia, Sweden is another country with a striking imbalance. When Edberg retired at the end of 1996, it seemed as though the long conveyor belt that had produced three multi-Slam champions (Borg, Wilander, and Edberg) in quick succession, as well as a host of other good players (Jarryd, Sundstrom, Nystrom, Carlsson, Svensson, Gustafsson, and Larsson) was winding down. But in the two decades since, there has been a champion (Johansson), three finalists (Enqvist, Norman, and Soderling), and at least one multiple semi-finalist (Bjorkman). All of them have been at least as successful as Catarina Lindqvist, and she's basically the only successful Swedish woman of the last 30 years.
China, on the other hand, has obviously produced more female players than male players.
Any thoughts on why this is?
China, on the other hand, has obviously produced more female players than male players.
Any thoughts on why this is?
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Safina has 3 Slam finals and the world #1 ranking. Dementieva has 2 Slam finals.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Damn, meant to include Switzerland and forgot. Thanks for the reminder!
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Now included. Not sure if you'll agree with all my choices though!
For Romania: Andrei Pavel > Adrian Voinea.
For Italy: Sara Errani > Flavia Pennetta (given your rules. I wish I didn't have to say this, as Errani is one of my least favorite players and I believe her to be totally overrated).
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Morocco. I can't think of any significant female players, but for the men it says something that Karim Alami is only #3. It'd be really hard to pick between Younes El Aynaoui and Hicham Arazi. Arazi was clearly the more talented, but after El Aynaoui's late career surge, he probably posted the better results.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
True, but only just (Pavel has 1 more 4th round at a Slam).
Aaagh...forgot about Errani's FO final. You're right again. Thanks.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Are you including non-Slam events for a tie? If so, then Pavel's Canadian Open win would put him WAY ahead of Voinea. Victor Hanescu also reached a Slam quarter-final at Roland Garros. Also, I can't remember who Voinea beat to make his, but didn't Pavel beat a really high seed? Tommy Haas? [And he took eventual champion Kafelnikov to five sets in his 4th round in Australia].
RacquetAbuse101
Semi-Pro
Denmark: Kurt Nielsen (Two Wimbledon finals)
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Pre-Open Era.
RacquetAbuse101
Semi-Pro
Yeah, sorry. My bad.
fundrazer
G.O.A.T.
Which means what other than that she was able to make 1 more slam final? Dementieva has more titles and olympic gold in singles where she beat guess who, Dinara Safina. She also made 7 semis.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Yes, plus Safina also held the number #1 ranking. But I do respect Dementieva's achievements also and I did consider her. In the end, I opted for whoever achieved the best results at the Slams. But I respect your different point of view and opinion.
Stanimal
Rookie
Dude, it's about the BEST player not to win a slam. Not which genetic freak couldn't bash their way through a draw.
Flash O'Groove
Hall of Fame
Corretja should be ahead of Ferrer I think?
Adv. Edberg
Legend
In Sweden is probably Soderling, Norman and Enqvist off the top of my head.
Murrayjuannow
Banned
India: Suresh
Murrayjuannow
Banned
Indonesia: Yayuk Basuki
Terry Tibbs
Hall of Fame
For me it would be Henman for GB. Could have won Wimbledon if it wasn't for prime pistol and the rain.
mattosgrant
Banned
I would pick Dementieva over Safina. I am pretty sure she has more Career titles, and bigger titles (Tier 1ish or Premier). The Olympic Gold (where she beat Safina in the final) which is much bigger thing than any achieved pushes her over the top for me.
Better results in slams? I guess technically 3 slam finals are better than 2, but wow there were some cakewalk draws, and atleast 2 of those finals were embarassing in nature. I mean I would call losing after having a match point in an epic to Serena in the semis, better than beating Zvonareva in the semis and then losing 6-0, 6-3 to Serena in the final.
The only argument for Safina would be being ranked #1, but given the amount of controvrsy that caused, even that wouldnt be sufficient for me.
Better results in slams? I guess technically 3 slam finals are better than 2, but wow there were some cakewalk draws, and atleast 2 of those finals were embarassing in nature. I mean I would call losing after having a match point in an epic to Serena in the semis, better than beating Zvonareva in the semis and then losing 6-0, 6-3 to Serena in the final.
The only argument for Safina would be being ranked #1, but given the amount of controvrsy that caused, even that wouldnt be sufficient for me.
Algo
Hall of Fame
As far as I know, there hasn't been anyone coming anywhere close to Anita Lizana in Chile so I'm okay with leaving that empty
It'd probably have to be Andrea Koch or Daniela Seguel, if you "need one" though. The former came close to the 200s both singles and doubles and the latter close to top 100 in doubles.
wanna chime in @Fedeonic ?
It'd probably have to be Andrea Koch or Daniela Seguel, if you "need one" though. The former came close to the 200s both singles and doubles and the latter close to top 100 in doubles.
wanna chime in @Fedeonic ?
7
70sHollywood
Guest
Netherlands - Tom Okker and Betty Stove.
Nice topic. For India Ramanathan Krishnan competes with Amritraj. Hard to compare because Krishnan was ranked 6 in amateurs, Amritraj 16 in the Open era. Krishnan has better DC credentials but again as an amateur. Toss a coin, or just use personal bias (as per usual on this forum ☺).
Mexico : Antonio Palafox and Yola Ramirez
Edit: Sorry, just read it is Open Era only. I'll leave the post because they are are all significant players and I saw them play!
Mexico : Antonio Palafox and Yola Ramirez
Edit: Sorry, just read it is Open Era only. I'll leave the post because they are are all significant players and I saw them play!
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Mainad
Bionic Poster
Good point. He was twice a finalist at RG. Ferrer, only once.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Forgot the Netherlands. Good choices. Added, thanks.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Nice one. Added.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
It was a toss-up between him and Rusedski. In the end, I plumped for Greg because of his US Open final.
Murrayjuannow
Banned
Thailand: Srichaphan and Tanasugarn
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't have time to fill-in the whole list but you can start with Arazi for Morocco
cluckcluck
Hall of Fame
Argentina: Gisela Dulko
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
Female for Argentina has to be Paola Suarez. Reached a career high of #9 and in 2004 got to the SF of the French and the QF of Wimbledon
I'd also say it's debatable Eugenie is the best Canadian to not win a slam...she made a final but I don't know if that's convincing enough and she has only won 1 title. I'd say Carling Bassett deserves just as much credit despite not making a major final.
For the United states I'd throw a personal choice of Pam Shriver for the women or Rosie Casals. I don't think it's as simple as looking at who made the most finals without winning one in this case.
Russian Woman would either have to be Dementieva or Olga Morozova to me...I'd lean toward Dementieva.
Ukraine...well the only woman I can even think of is Alona Bondarenko.
Swiss woman if we are counting all woman to every REPRESENT the country I have to give that to Manuela Maleeva. Yes she was born in Bulgaria but eventually represented Switzerland in internatonal play (starting in 1990) and her record is better than Patty in my opinion...and I loved Patty.
Just my choices
I'd also say it's debatable Eugenie is the best Canadian to not win a slam...she made a final but I don't know if that's convincing enough and she has only won 1 title. I'd say Carling Bassett deserves just as much credit despite not making a major final.
For the United states I'd throw a personal choice of Pam Shriver for the women or Rosie Casals. I don't think it's as simple as looking at who made the most finals without winning one in this case.
Russian Woman would either have to be Dementieva or Olga Morozova to me...I'd lean toward Dementieva.
Ukraine...well the only woman I can even think of is Alona Bondarenko.
Swiss woman if we are counting all woman to every REPRESENT the country I have to give that to Manuela Maleeva. Yes she was born in Bulgaria but eventually represented Switzerland in internatonal play (starting in 1990) and her record is better than Patty in my opinion...and I loved Patty.
Just my choices
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
And the female for India would have to be Sania Mirza by a landslide
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
Yes, plus Safina also held the number #1 ranking. But I do respect Dementieva's achievements also and I did consider her. In the end, I opted for whoever achieved the best results at the Slams. But I respect your different point of view and opinion.
Dementieva won more singles titles (16 to 12) won WAY more matches (576-360) and spent a decade ranked in the world's top 10 players. A perfect example of how slam results don't tell the whole story. Dementieva was literally a point away from a 3rd final at wimbledon I'm 2009 anyway. Safina really doesn't win this one.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Good call.
Never made a Slam quarter-final (as per my criteria).
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Never made a Slam quarter-final therefore does not meet my criteria.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
What does he have to do with this discussion?
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Still think it's debatable, but I get your point. Wasn't Dementieva regarded as the best women never to win a slam, when she retired by a fair amount of experts?
Edit: What he says
Coria and Nalby are debatable too (as well as Gonza and Rios), but I too would go with Nalby and Rios too. Henman over Rusedski due to consistency imo.
Great thread by the way.
On Denmark, I remember reading that Woz was the first Dane to reach a slam final since some guy way back when.
Edit: Kurt Nielsen, Wimbledon RU in 53 and 55.
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
Then no Indian woman meets your criteria because it hasn't happened yet. Mirza is the only one ever the make the 4th round of a major and the only one ever to reach a top 30 ranking...then she hurt her wrist and couldn't continue to compete in singles. Based on your....ehem...criteria...there is no woman from India that's any good
Mainad
Bionic Poster
That's right. Some countries will not meet the criteria. There will nearly always be certain players that are the best in their countries to never win a Slam but if they haven't reached a particular standard in the Slams then it's not really saying much is it? That's why I picked quarter-finals reached as the standard to be met.
RacquetAbuse101
Semi-Pro
I've mentioned Kurt Nielsen, but he doesn't fit the criteria, obviously. Actually, no male Danish player qualifies. Kenneth Carlsen did manage to beat Stefan Edberg on Centre Court in '94, but he didn't make it to the QF.
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mattosgrant
Banned
Just no. 1 slam final is not better than 6 semis on 3 different surfaces. Plus anyone who followed both knows Tim is better and had the far more consistent career as a top player. Nobody ever thought Greg could win a slam. Tim was a contender to win Wimbledon like 5 years in a row.
For New Zealand it would be Chris Lewis and Onny Parun. Onny made the Australian Open final (1973) and also qualified and competed in the World Tour Finals. He also was a US Open quarterfinalist in 1973 and also a quarterfinalist at the French Open in 1975. He won the French Open doubles in 1974 (with Dick Crealy)Apologies if this has been done before but I wanted to see what people thought who are the best man and woman player from each of the most prominent tennis nations never to win a Grand Slam in the Open Era. I have made my choice on names who have at least made a Slam quarter-final:
My thoughts (? where I can't think of a suitable candidate):
Argentina:
David Nalbandian and Paola Suarez
Australia:
Mark Philippoussis and Wendy Turnbull
Belgium:
Xavier Malisse and Yanina Wickmayer
Brazil:
Fernando Meligeni and ?
Canada:
Milos Raonic and Eugenie Bouchard
Chile:
Marcelo Rios and ?
China:
Zheng Jie and ?
Croatia:
Mario Ancic and ?
Czech Republic:
Tomas Berdych and Helena Sukova
Denmark:
Caroline Wozniacki and ?
Ecuador:
Nicolas Lapentti and ?
Egypt:
Ismail El Shafei and ?
France:
Cedric Pioline and Nathalie Tauziat
Germany:
Tommy Haas and Anke Huber
Great Britain:
Greg Rusedski and Jo Durie
India:
Vijay Amritraj and ?
Italy:
Corrado Barazzutti and Sara Errani
Japan:
Kei Nishikori and Kimiko Date
Morocco:
Younes El Aynaoui and ?
Netherlands:
Tom Okker and Betty Stove
New Zealand:
Chris Lewis and ?
Poland:
Jerzy Janowicz and Agnieszka Radwanska
Romania:
Andrei Pavel and Simona Halep
Russia:
Nikolay Davydenko and Dinara Safina
Serbia:
Slobodan Zivojinovic and Jelena Jankovic
Slovakia:
Miloslav Mecir and Dominika Cibulkova
South Africa:
Kevin Curren and Amanda Coetzer
Switzerland:
Marc Rosset and Patty Schnyder
Spain:
Alex Corretja and Garbine Muguruza
Sweden:
Robin Soderling and Catarina Lindqvist
Ukraine:
Andriy Medvedev and ?
United States:
Todd Martin and Mary Jo Fernandez
Zimbabwe:
Byron Black and ?
What names would you pick for each (and please add more countries if you feel I have left anyone out)?
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Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Why not? Amateur/pro era?
Edit: Ah, I see. Didn't read the OP well enough.