Best seasons listed by year

[Towny]

On hardcourt and grass 2015 Djokovic has 2/3 good opponents to 2006 Federer's nothing

Again, how many matches players have won in a season doesn't necessarily determine their level of play. It's not a bad indicator, but it's not always accurate. Wawrinka went 39-17 in 2014, but that has no bearing on his exceptional AO level.

Besides, it's your opinion that having 3 decent opponents is tougher than one exceptional one, an opinion I'm not sure many will share. Rafa went undefeated on clay that year and was in the middle of his 81-match win streak. Likewise, Novak clearly had it far tougher on clay in 2012 going up against peak Nadal as opposed to 2015.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Again, how many matches players have won in a season doesn't necessarily determine their level of play. It's not a bad indicator, but it's not always accurate. Wawrinka went 39-17 in 2014, but that has no bearing on his exceptional AO level.

Besides, it's your opinion that having 3 decent opponents is tougher than one exceptional one, an opinion I'm not sure many will share. Rafa went undefeated on clay that year and was in the middle of his 81-match win streak. Likewise, Novak clearly had it far tougher on clay in 2012 going up against peak Nadal as opposed to 2015.

Didn't write it.

About equal.

 

[Towny]

Didn't write it

Fair enough

 

[Jonas78]

Mere opinions.

The stats show 2015 Djokovic had 3 good opponents on clay, to Federer's 1 excellent opponent, and on hardcourt/grass 2015 Djokovic had 2/3 good opponents to 2006 Federer's nothing.

Given Rogers stats vs peak-Nadal on clay (esp FO) and Rogers stats vs Djok/Stan/Andy (2 of them which he has beat in FO) i think the answer is pretty clear.

Besides - Stans FO15 was one good ride, he was 6-4 on clay 2015 apart from FO.

Nadal was crap and Federer hadnt done anything on clay sinse 2011 either.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Given Rogers stats vs peak-Nadal on clay (esp FO) and Rogers stats vs Djok/Stan/Andy (2 of them which he has beat in FO) i think the answer is pretty clear.

Besides - Stans FO15 was one good ride, he was 6-4 on clay 2015 apart from FO.

Nadal was crap and Federer hadnt done anything on clay sinse 2011 either.

No it's not clear, especially if you have to beat all them three at RG because of a terrible draw.

 

[Jonas78]

No it's not clear, especially if you have to beat all them three at RG because of a terrible draw.

With 2005-2014 Nadal i would pick any FO-draw without him than one with him

 

[Deleted member 757377]

With 2005-2014 Nadal i would pick any FO-draw without him than one with him

If I were Federer, maybe I would too. Not if I were Djokovic.

Anyway I have to remind you 2015 FO Stan was the only player able to beat Federer from Rome to US Open along with Djokovic. Imagine having to deal with Nadal (at his worst) and Murray (at his best) too.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

@Jonas78

Hardcourt and grass anyway end any discussion about 2015 vs 2006 competition.

 

[Jonas78]

If I were Federer, maybe I would too. Not if I were Djokovic.

Anyway I have to remind you 2015 FO Stan was the only player able to beat Federer from Rome to US Open along with Djokovic. Imagine having to deal with Nadal (at his worst) and Murray (at his best) too.

Valid point. Nadal was a terrible match up for Roger on clay.

Stan is Stan, you never know when he shows up. Apart from FO15 he was 6-4 on clay that year.

Funny 2015. I have never seen people disagree that much on a year. I have seen it from 2/3 to 15/16 when people range 2000-2018.

 

[KINGROGER]

LOL

2006 Hardcourt:

no.114 Blake

2006 Clay:

no.9 Nadal

2006 Grass:

-


2015 Hardcourt:

no.32 Federer
no.62 Murray
no.101 Wawrinka

2015 Clay:

no.77 Wawrinka
no.113 Murray
no.121 Nadal


2015 Grass:

no.85 Federer
no.125 Murray

HC: same level of non existent competition aside from Nole had Fed at Cincy I guess. Fed had tougher opponents at 06 YEC. Blake, Roddick, Nadal.

Grass: both non existent. 06 Nadal and 15 Fed about the same toughness

Clay: 06 Nadal over BO5 much much tougher than anyone there.

Overall Fed had it tougher in 2006 due to Nadal on clay.

 

[Towny]

It's kind of irrelevant anyway. Both Fed 2006 and Djokovic 2015 played at a very high level and would have won most of what they won even with slightly stronger competition.

Let's say Fed and Novak were absent for the whole 2008 clay season. It would have made no difference to Nadal, he would have the same results. No one would say that because he had poorer competition, his level was lower. When the competition stepped up to Fed in 2004-7, more often than not he beat them down. I've no reason to believe if he had to deal with Old Fed, Murray, slumpdal and Stan instead of clay-prime Nadal, he would have done any worse

 

[KINGROGER]

It's not the best but it is among the best.

05,06,07,08,09,11, 12, 13 are all better clay years.

 

[KINGROGER]

Mere opinions.

The stats show 2015 Djokovic had 3 good opponents on clay, to Federer's 1 excellent opponent, and on hardcourt/grass 2015 Djokovic had 2/3 good opponents to 2006 Federer's nothing.

Wrong. No stats show this.

 

[KINGROGER]

If I were Federer, maybe I would too. Not if I were Djokovic.

Anyway I have to remind you 2015 FO Stan was the only player able to beat Federer from Rome to US Open along with Djokovic. Imagine having to deal with Nadal (at his worst) and Murray (at his best) too.

If 2006 Fed had that draw then he’d win CYGS.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

It's kind of irrelevant anyway. Both Fed 2006 and Djokovic 2015 played at a very high level and would have won most of what they won even with slightly stronger competition.

Let's say Fed and Novak were absent for the whole 2008 clay season. It would have made no difference to Nadal, he would have the same results. No one would say that because he had poorer competition, his level was lower. When the competition stepped up to Fed in 2004-7, more often than not he beat them down. I've no reason to believe if he had to deal with Old Fed, Murray, slumpdal and Stan instead of clay-prime Nadal, he would have done any worse

I don't give much importance to opinions, you just have to show me with stats that 2006 Federer's opponents had good results.

About clay in fact I don't have many objections, it was a good year.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

If 2006 Fed had that draw then he’d win CYGS.

If Djokovic had 2003-10 hardcourt/grass opponents he would be sitting at 20+ slams now.

I'm good at fantasy tennis too.

 

[TMF]

He could beat the two greatest players of ALL TIME six times in 2009, but couldn't beat Roddick. Let that sink in.

Nole has a losing H2H against Roddick who is 3-21 against Federer is really getting under his skin.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Wrong. No stats show this.

Wrong. All stats show this.

 

[Towny]

I don't give much importance to opinions

OK, tell me what conclusion do you draw from these stats then? Because there must be some reason you keep creating these threads. Say you can show that Novak's competition was stronger in 2015 than Fed's in 2006 for sake of argument. What does that actually mean to you? What are you inferring?

 

[KINGROGER]

If Djokovic had 2003-10 hardcourt/grass opponents he would be sitting at 20+ slams now.

I'm good at fantasy tennis too.

Lol definitely not. If he can’t reach 20 by losing to lesser opponents Murray, Wawrinka, Nishikori etc he certainly isn’t winning more slams in a tougher era.

There’s no fantasy. Reality is Fed has the most slams he’s the GOAT.

 

[KINGROGER]

Wrong. All stats show this.

Which stats? That Nole faced opponents who had “higher ranked all time seasons”

This doesn’t show he had it tougher, at all.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Which stats? That Nole faced opponents who had “higher ranked all time seasons”

This doesn’t show he had it tougher, at all.

Much better than your opinion.

No one cares about your opinion. There's no website with KINGROGER's opinion LOL.

 

[KINGROGER]

Much better than your opinion.

No one cares about your opinion. There's no website with KINGROGER's opinion LOL.

That’s also your opinion. “Best ranked seasons ever” isn’t a fact by the way.

I can say “no one cares about your opinion”

All your stats are subjective.

 

[Jonas78]

@Jonas78

Hardcourt and grass anyway end any discussion about 2015 vs 2006 competition.

Yeah 2006 was the weakest of 2004-2007. Then again he only lost 2 matches off-clay (young Murray/Nadal) that season, none on grass. So could he handled tougher opposition? Surely. He was serving bagels in SF and F of Wimbledon and only lost one set.

On grass noone touches peak-Roger, If anyone it must be Pete. I can't see how Djokovic could beat him on grass. At his best he was even a better returner than Djokovic on grass.

 

[abmk]

Valid point. Nadal was a terrible match up for Roger on clay.

Stan is Stan, you never know when he shows up. Apart from FO15 he was 6-4 on clay that year.

Funny 2015. I have never seen people disagree that much on a year. I have seen it from 2/3 to 15/16 when people range 2000-2018.

it'd be hilarious to put 2015 in the top 5 competition wise from 2000-2018.
wouldn't be in the bottom 5 either.

 

[BrokenGears]

That’s also your opinion. “Best ranked seasons ever” isn’t a fact by the way.

I can say “no one cares about your opinion”

All your stats are subjective.

No stats aren’t subjective. They’re OBJECTIVE

Claims made off stats are subjective, but can be proven

 

[KINGROGER]

No stats aren’t subjective. They’re OBJECTIVE

Claims made off stats are subjective, but can be proven

His interpretations are subjective yes, with lots of double standards.

 

[Druss]

Yeah right

http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?playerId=4920&tab=matches&season=2009

His record against Roddick stands out like a turd in a punchbowl.

Lol that’s a good one! Undisputed 2009 world No3 Djoker beats peak/prime Fedal 6 times (incl a positive H2H against Fed that year) yet goes 0-3 vs post peak Roddick.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

it'd be hilarious to put 2015 in the top 5 competition wise from 2000-2018.
wouldn't be in the bottom 5 either.

Because you decided it?

4 players won 92% of matches against the field, 95% in big tournaments, 100% at Roland Garros.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Lol that’s a good one! Undisputed 2009 world No3 Djoker beats peak/prime Fedal 6 times (incl a positive H2H against Fed that year) yet goes 0-3 vs post peak Roddick.

If you lose like 30 times to non slam winners it is perfectly normal to lose 5 times to a slam winner.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Best seasons (in no particular order):

2008
2010
2013
2017

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Yeah 2006 was the weakest of 2004-2007. Then again he only lost 2 matches off-clay (young Murray/Nadal) that season, none on grass. So could he handled tougher opposition? Surely. He was serving bagels in SF and F of Wimbledon and only lost one set.

On grass noone touches peak-Roger, If anyone it must be Pete. I can't see how Djokovic could beat him on grass. At his best he was even a better returner than Djokovic on grass.

2003-07 were all weak outside clay. 2003-04 on clay too. 2003-05 grass had Roddick by the stats, but he was mediocre on hardcourt so he may have had good grass score only because he played few matches.

At 26 he forgot how to dominate? You throw in 1-2 players and everything changes. Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, Del Potro stopped him many times after streaks of straight-sets won matches.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

His interpretations are subjective yes, with lots of double standards.

I don't think I have double standards: IMO when a bunch of players dominate the competition is high

 

[Deleted member 757377]

2011 and 2015:

no.48 Nadal
no.84 Federer
no.85 Federer
no.98 Federer
no.135 Murray
no.148 Wawrinka

2004 and 2006:

no.76 Nadal
no.146 Roddick

 

[Deleted member 757377]

2011 and 2015 are much greater seasons than 2004 and 2006.

2011-18 was much tougher than 2003-10, especially 2011-15 compared to 2003-07.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

2003-07 vs 2011-15 seasons:

1) 2015 Djokovic
2) 2006 Federer
3) 2011 Djokovic
4) 2007 Federer
5) 2004 Federer
6) 2005 Federer
7) 2013 Nadal
8) 2012 Djokovic
9) 2013 Djokovic
10) 2014 Djokovic
11) 2012 Federer
12) 2011 Nadal
13) 2007 Nadal
14) 2005 Nadal
15) 2014 Federer
16) 2006 Nadal
17) 2003 Roddick
18) 2015 Federer
19) 2015 Murray
20) 2014 Nadal
21) 2011 Federer
22) 2003 Federer
23) 2012 Murray
24) 2012 Nadal

 

[Jonas78]

2003-07 were all weak outside clay. 2003-04 on clay too. 2003-05 grass had Roddick by the stats, but he was mediocre on hardcourt so he may have had good grass score only because he played few matches.

At 26 he forgot how to dominate? You throw in 1-2 players and everything changes. Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, Del Potro stopped him many times after streaks of straight-sets won matches.

2008 was a slump, his level of play was bad, not because of age because he got better at the end of the year. He didnt only lose to the mentioned players, he lost to Fish, Roddick, Simon etc. Or is peak-Rafa > peak-Fed on grass too, because he won in 2008? He didnt suddenly end 66-15 because the field changed overnight. Practically every stat available (and the eye test) support this slump. You think Roger was peak for 15 years but everything else changed? If so he must be the only athlete in history.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

2008 was a slump, his level of play was bad, not because of age because he got better at the end of the year. He didnt only lose to the mentioned players, he lost to Fish, Roddick, Simon etc. Or is peak-Rafa > peak-Fed on grass too, because he won in 2008? He didnt suddenly end 66-15 because the field changed overnight. Practically every stat available (and the eye test) support this slump. You think Roger was peak for 15 years but everything else changed? If so he must be the only athlete in history.

Strange that in 15 years at the top he was at peak only in a 4 years timespan, just when the competition was at its lowest.

 

[Jonas78]

The competition objectively got better though.

Strange that in 15 years at the top he was at peak only in a 4 years timespan.

I would say peak 2004-2007, prime 2004-2012, with big slumps in 2008 and 2010, and less consistent 2011/2012. Most Rafa-fans would say peak 2008, 2010, 2013 - thats 3 years. Djokovic had about 5 years but his level of play had ups and downs 2012-2014.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

I would say peak 2004-2007, prime 2004-2012, with big slumps in 2008 and 2010, and less consistent 2011/2012. Most Rafa-fans would say peak 2008, 2010, 2013 - thats 3 years. Djokovic had about 5 years but his level of play had ups and downs 2012-2014.

Peaking only in weak years affects his legacy.

 

[Jonas78]

Peaking only in weak years affects his legacy.

As i have said earlier, Djokovic dominated a strong year, 2011, i agree. I dont put 2015 as a strong year though.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

As i have said earlier, Djokovic dominated a strong year, 2011, i agree. I dont put 2015 as a strong year though.

Stats show 2008-15 were the strongest years and Djokovic was clearly the best in that timespan.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

I would say peak 2004-2007, prime 2004-2012, with big slumps in 2008 and 2010, and less consistent 2011/2012. Most Rafa-fans would say peak 2008, 2010, 2013 - thats 3 years. Djokovic had about 5 years but his level of play had ups and downs 2012-2014.

2014, 2015 and 2017 are top-10 Federer's seasons.

 

[Jonas78]

Stats show 2008-15 were the strongest years and Djokovic was clearly the best in that timespan.

No. Your analyzis of the stats show 2008-2015. Anyway - we discussed If Fed had a slump in 2008. With all your focus on stats, I find it very hard to believe you dont acknowledge that slump. Federer has said himself he wasnt feeling 100% for large parts of 2008.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

No. Your analyzis of the stats show 2008-2015. Anyway - we discussed If Fed had a slump in 2008. With all your focus on stats, I find it very hard to believe you dont acknowledge that slump. Federer has said himself he wasnt feeling 100% for large parts of 2008.

Look, I'm just trying to measure competition with stats. I'm not much into speculations.

 

[Jonas78]

Look, I'm just trying to measure competition with stats. I'm not much into speculations.

Sure, but how can you measure level of opposition correct If you dont take into account a players level of play? When Federer suddenly loses 15 matches In a year, how do you know if the field got stronger or Fed is In a slump? Or both?

 

[Jonas78]

it'd be hilarious to put 2015 in the top 5 competition wise from 2000-2018.
wouldn't be in the bottom 5 either.

I agree

 

[Towny]

Look, I'm just trying to measure competition with stats. I'm not much into speculations.

You still haven't answered my question. What is the conclusion of your data?

OK, tell me what conclusion do you draw from these stats then? Because there must be some reason you keep creating these threads. Say you can show that Novak's competition was stronger in 2015 than Fed's in 2006 for sake of argument. What does that actually mean to you? What are you inferring?

BTW, best season ranking isn't an objective statistic. It factors in a lot of stats but the priorities given to each stat on the website is a subjective choice

 

[Towny]

The biggest joke out of all this is that the same website ranks Federer as Open era GOAT based on the exact same criteria. It gives him 901 GOAT points (the metric used to determine best season) with Djokovic on 749 and Nadal on 736. Do you accept these are simply objective stats as well?

 

[Towny]

http://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/goatList
Here's the link if anyone's interested