best servers by height; Zverev is the worst!

[George Turner]

There's lots of talk on these forums about how height is an important factor on serving, so i had a look at who had the best and worst serves for each height. Stats indicate service games won/average aces per match, vs top 50 players. Players with more losses than wins aren't included, with the exception of Wayne Arthurs.

Note; Juan Chela and Juan Monaco are both significant outliers for their height, so i included the second worst aswell.

Honourable mention to Filippo Volandri, officially the worst server ever on tour. Wins 63.3% service games and 0.5 aces per match.

6 foot 6 best; Joachin Johansson
88.3%/15.9
6 foot 6 worst; Alexander Zverev
79.9%/6.5

6 feet 5 best; Milos Raonic.
89.9%/14.4
6 feet 5 worst;Bernard Tomic.
77.5%/6.9

6 feet 4 best; Nick Kyrgios.
86.6%/13.2
6 feet 4 worst; Gael Monfils
77.9%/8.0

6 feet 3 best; Wayne Arthurs
84.5%/15.6
6 feet 3 worst; Juan Chela---Jiri Novak
70.4/3.0---74.6%/3.8

6 feet 2 best; Andy Roddick
88.3%/11.6
6 feet 2 worst; Pablo Carreno Busta
74.2%/3.8

6 feet 1 best; Pete Sampras
87.9%/11.3
6 feet 1 worst; Juan Monaco---Hyeon Chung
71.3%/1.9---73.5%/2.8

6 feet 0 best; Stan Wawrinka
81.4%/7.0
6 feet 0 worst; Roberto Bautista Agut
76.9%/2.9

5 feet 11 best; Thomas Johansson.
78.1%/8.2
5 feet 11 worst; Fabio Fognini
68.4%/2.9

5 feet 10 best; Marcos Baghdatis
77.0%/6.9

5 feet 9 best; Sebastian Grosjean
75.9%/5.5
5 feet 9 worst; Guillermo Coria
73.3%/2.5
No good servers at this height or below.

Conclusions; relative to his height, Zverev is one of the worst servers in the game! His serve is no better than Thomas Johansson and he compares with the slightly less lanky Tomic and Monfils on the serve department.

The breaking point to be able to be a great server is 6 feet 1. That height can provide a server like Sampras but below that height there are no great servers.

Another breaking point is 6 feet 4, at this height you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to serve 6+ aces a match and you have much more chance of being a huge server.

 

[True Fanerer]

Federer is the best server ever for his size and frame period .

 

[Shaolin]

Rios had a great serve and was 5'8 or 5'9.

Never was a fan of the Zverev serve…he just hits it into the middle of the box.

 

[George Turner]

Federer is the best server ever for his size and frame period .

Not quite as good as Sampras

 

[SpinToWin]

Reminds me of the recent thread I made... Could've factored in height too... Hmmm...

It's actually worse than that @George Turner . What you're looking at is service games in total, not just serves. If you believe most commentators and posters, then Zverev has an above average ground game, especially for his height. This means that his serve actually is more of a problem than the stats may at first indicate, as even with a solid rallying game to back up the serve, he is less good at winning service points.

Indeed, I just checked my table, and based on the first serve strength stat as I measured/calculated it, Zverev is around spot 20 in the past 52 weeks, even though he is considerably taller than most players on the list. Others known for their height are well ahead of him on this stat.

Edit: One question though: What was the domain of players you chose from to make this comparison?

 

[George Turner]

Reminds me of the recent thread I made... Could've factored in height too... Hmmm...

It's actually worse than that @George Turner . What you're looking at is service games in total, not just serves. If you believe most commentators and posters, then Zverev has an above average ground game, especially for his height. This means that his serve actually is more of a problem than the stats may at first indicate, as even with a solid rallying game to back up the serve, he is less good at winning service points.

Indeed, I just checked my table, and based on the first serve strength stat as I measured/calculated it, Zverev is around spot 20 in the past 52 weeks, even though he is considerably taller than most players on the list. Others known for their height are well ahead of him on this stat.

Edit: One question though: What was the domain of players you chose from to make this comparison?

I couldn't pick players pre 1991 cos of lack of stats. Otherwise John McEnroe prob would be the top server at 5 feet 11. These stats are taken from their entire careers.

I know players ground games are factors. Nadal for example has an average serve, averaging about 3 aces per match. But his ground game is so good he holds a very high percentage of service games.

The fact Zverev has an above average ground game (a very good one actually, he's no.3 in rhe world) proves my point, to only hold about 80% of service games is pretty poor for a player of his height!

I don't think i saw this thread you made

 

[SpinToWin]

I couldn't pick players pre 1991 cos of lack of stats. Otherwise John McEnroe prob would be the top server at 5 feet 11. These stats are taken from their entire careers.

I know players ground games are factors. Nadal for example has an average serve, averaging about 3 aces per match. But his ground game is so good he holds a very high percentage of service games.

The fact Zverev has an above average ground game (a very good one actually, he's no.3 in rhe world) proves my point, to only hold about 80% of service games is pretty poor for a player of his height!

I don't think i saw this thread you made

So it's all players from 1991? Or is it mostly focused on top 50 or so?
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...t-serve-strength-and-reliance-attempt.604280/

 

[Zoolander]

By stopping at 6'6", you are stiil about half a foot short of the good Dr Ivo........... Or is there nobody else at 6'11 to compare him to?!

 

[George Turner]

By stopping at 6'6", you are stiil about half a foot short of the good Dr Ivo........... Or is there nobody else at 6'11 to compare him to?!

There literally is no one else, tallest player ever. Lord servebot Isner is 6 foot 10, Dr. Ivo has marginally better serve stats.

So it's all players from 1991? Or is it mostly focused on top 50 or so?
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...t-serve-strength-and-reliance-attempt.604280/

It's focusing on decent players. I don't want to include guys like Victor Hanescu, a 6 foot 6 journeyman who averages 4.4 aces per match. There's no stats available before 1991 so i've not used players who played a lot of their tennis before then.

Looks like you made the effort of taking into account their rally games aswell, good effort i just wanted to see how much height is a factor. I was a little shocked to see how poor Zverev's serve is for a 6 foot 6, world number 3.

 

[Lukhas]

I suppose Benoît Paire can thank Tomic for not making the list: you'd easily forget he's 6' 5" considering how dreadful his serve is.

Aside from that, I'm not surprised in the slightest concerning Zverev: it simply illustrates that once and for all, you can't get something for nothing. There's only 24 hours per day, and all that time spent practising his ground game is less time practising your serve. That, or Zverev's volleying skills and especially his transition game (id est "how to get to the net" rather than "how to volley") that may as well be non-existent. But he's young, he's made progress in his result this season so who knows what the future holds.

 

[Sudacafan]

There's lots of talk on these forums about how height is an important factor on serving, so i had a look at who had the best and worst serves for each height. Stats indicate service games won/average aces per match, vs top 50 players. Players with more losses than wins aren't included, with the exception of Wayne Arthurs.

Note; Juan Chela and Juan Monaco are both significant outliers for their height, so i included the second worst aswell.

Honourable mention to Filippo Volandri, officially the worst server ever on tour. Wins 63.3% service games and 0.5 aces per match.

6 foot 6 best; Joachin Johansson
88.3%/15.9
6 foot 6 worst; Alexander Zverev
79.9%/6.5

6 feet 5 best; Milos Raonic.
89.9%/14.4
6 feet 5 worst;Bernard Tomic.
77.5%/6.9

6 feet 4 best; Nick Kyrgios.
86.6%/13.2
6 feet 4 worst; Gael Monfils
77.9%/8.0

6 feet 3 best; Wayne Arthurs
84.5%/15.6
6 feet 3 worst; Juan Chela---Jiri Novak
70.4/3.0---74.6%/3.8

6 feet 2 best; Andy Roddick
88.3%/11.6
6 feet 2 worst; Pablo Carreno Busta
74.2%/3.8

6 feet 1 best; Pete Sampras
87.9%/11.3
6 feet 1 worst; Juan Monaco---Hyeon Chung
71.3%/1.9---73.5%/2.8

6 feet 0 best; Nicolas Almagro
79%/7.3
6 feet 0 worst; Roberto Bautista Agut
76.9%/2.9

5 feet 11 best; Thomas Johansson.
78.1%/8.2
5 feet 11 worst; Fabio Fognini
68.4%/2.9

5 feet 10 best; Marcos Baghdatis
77.0%/6.9

5 feet 9 worst; Guillermo Coria
73.3%/2.5
No good servers at this height or below.

Conclusions; relative to his height, Zverev is one of the worst servers in the game! His serve is no better than Thomas Johansson and he compares with the slightly less lanky Tomic and Monfils on the serve department.

The breaking point to be able to be a great server is 6 feet 1. That height can provide a server like Sampras but below that height there are no great servers.

Another breaking point is 6 feet 4, at this height you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to serve 6+ aces a match and you have much more chance of being a huge server.

I was expecting some analysis in the 6’10” and 6’11” categories.
Is it that there’s no bad servers in them to compare to the good ones? Like who’s the worst 6’11’ server in the tour? Opelka?
In the Schwartzman‘s 5’7” category there’s nothing to be said for sure.

 

[Sudacafan]

Not quite as good as Sampras

I have Sampras listed at 6’2”, not 6’1”.
Is it that the OP did not want Sampras to lose to Roddick in the 6’2” category?

 

[Surion]

I was expecting some analysis in the 6’10” and 6’11” categories.
Is it that there’s no bad servers in them to compare to the good ones? Like who’s the worst 6’11’ server in the tour? Opelka?
In the Schwartzman‘s 5’7” category there’s nothing to be said for sure.

Read the thread

 

[Sudacafan]

By stopping at 6'6", you are stiil about half a foot short of the good Dr Ivo........... Or is there nobody else at 6'11 to compare him to?!

Opelka

 

[Sudacafan]

Read the thread

Correct. There are disclaimers for that. Sorry.

 

[George Turner]

I suppose Benoît Paire can thank Tomic for not making the list: you'd easily forget he's 6' 5" considering how dreadful his serve is.

Aside from that, I'm not surprised in the slightest concerning Zverev: it simply illustrates that once and for all, you can't get something for nothing. There's only 24 hours per day, and all that time spent practising his ground game is less time practising your serve. That, or Zverev's volleying skills and especially his transition game (id est "how to get to the net" rather than "how to volley") that may as well be non-existent. But he's young, he's made progress in his result this season so who knows what the future holds.

Paire is worth a mention, has a shocking first serve percentage at 52.8%, most players are around 60%. Has more career losses than wins, one of the most overrated *talents* in tennis

Zverev does need to improve his serve, at his height he's not getting the most out of that shot. he also needs to improve his forehand, clearly not the finished article yet. I still have faith in him

I have Sampras listed at 6’2”, not 6’1”.
Is it that the OP did not want Sampras to lose to Roddick in the 6’2” category?

Sampras is 6 foot 1, 185 centimetres, same height as Fedal. So he's safe from Roddick

A few other great servers that narrowly miss out are Kraijeck at 6 feet 5, Ivanisevic at 6 feet 4 and Becker at 6 feet 3.

 

[George Turner]

For those of you mentioning Schwartzman, his stats stand at 67.5%/2.3

Fellow dwarf Olivier Rochus has an even worse serve, at 61.1%/1.4

Nobody that height even has an average serve, it's inevitably going to be a liability.

 

[Thundergod]

Stan isn't better than 79% for the 6'0'' guys? I know his serve technically isn't the best, but I thought his ground game would carry him.

 

[George Turner]

Stan isn't better than 79% for the 6'0'' guys? I know his serve technically isn't the best, but I thought his ground game would carry him.

Wow, i thought Stan was taller than that, didn't even look at him! Updated

I took into account both aces and % of service games held when deciding whose the best.

 

[BlackSilver]

Bad thread. First, because Almagro, who is far better server than Wawrinka, only Thomas Johansson, (at least between important players) comes close to his serve, taking into account players of 183cm or shorter. Not including Hanescu or other similar players is a flaw IMO.

A third flaw is not taking into account the surface, because this ace metric hurts clay courters for obvious reasons.

But the greatest problem is to underestimate Zverev serve, who probably gets more unreturned serves to each ace he hits than joe atp due to his serve being more based on speed than placement. He also has a worst than average forehand, which helps to show how his serve is better than ace stats indicate. Second, his ace stat is probably improving, as is the case with most young players.

Zverev's is by far his biggest weapon (not his overrated backhand that wins few points or his bad forehand), and if he had a serve not as good, he wouldn't have won two masters, especially Rome, where he annihilated everyone in his way, including Djokovic, where he got two or more free points in all but one service game if I remember correctly.

 

[Mugu]

michael stich? everyone always forgets about that guy. he was a tremendous overall talent with a killer serve.

 

[Mugu]

poor pathetic filippo volandri. i'm not surprised to see he has the worst serving stats. he certainly has the ugliest looking
serve i've ever seen. kudos to him, i guess, for being able to stay in the pro ranks with a serve like that.

 

[Mugu]

5 feet 9 best; Sebastian Grosjean
75.9%/5.5
5 feet 9 worst; Guillermo Coria
73.3%/2.5
No good servers at this height or below.

i'm too lazy to look it up myself, but i wonder what Coria's stats would be before the big FO meltdown and the serve yips killed his career.

 

[George Turner]

Bad thread. First, because Almagro, who is far better server than Wawrinka, only Thomas Johansson, (at least between important players) comes close to his serve, taking into account players of 183cm or shorter. Not including Hanescu or other similar players is a flaw IMO.

A third flaw is not taking into account the surface, because this ace metric hurts clay courters for obvious reasons.

But the greatest problem is to underestimate Zverev serve, who probably gets more unreturned serves to each ace he hits than joe atp due to his serve being more based on speed than placement. He also has a worst than average forehand, which helps to show how his serve is better than ace stats indicate. Second, his ace stat is probably improving, as is the case with most young players.

Zverev's is by far his biggest weapon (not his overrated backhand that wins few points or his bad forehand), and if he had a serve not as good, he wouldn't have won two masters, especially Rome, where he annihilated everyone in his way, including Djokovic, where he got two or more free points in all but one service game if I remember correctly.

Including players like Hanescu is pointless, their serves are poor because it reflects their overall game. People are more interested in why the world no.3 doesn't serve that well for his height!

I'm not sure why you think Zverevs groundgame is making him lose service games, he has a better groundgame than Raonic but Raonic is holding more service games. So there's clearly a gulf in quality between their serves.

Your comment about clay courters is correct. But there's a reason they're Claycourters, it helps minimise their serve weakness!

i'm too lazy to look it up myself, but i wonder what Coria's stats would be before the big FO meltdown and the serve yips killed his career.

Coria never had more than a mediocre serve, he didn't really need one. He's a GOAT as far as returning goes.

Maybe I'll do this thread again, with return. stats instead

 

[nolefam_2024]

Zverev is now 8.7 aces per match
82.45 service games won.

Still nowhere in servebot territory but better than 2017 when he was just 20 year old.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Federer is the best server ever for his size and frame period .

Ridiculous claim. Thanks to uts the fan worshipping is not really a factor nowadays.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Alcaraz is already at 81.44 % service games holds. And he still is bashed for his service. That's why people are calling him tiny because you can't fake the height

 

[nolefam_2024]

The breaking point to be able to be a great server is 6 feet 1. That height can provide a server like Sampras but below that height there are no great servers.

Another breaking point is 6 feet 4, at this height you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to serve 6+ aces a match and you have much more chance of being a huge server.

Carlos is right at the edge of this barrier but he is still tinier than he should.

While sinner is near the upper limit and he is having entire ATP talking about him.