Best thing for Djokovic is a strong Nadal comeback

messiahrobins said:
Nope, these ratios actually are important. Djokovic fans actually came up with the idea a while back when it suited lol.
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I don't care what Djokovic fans came up with or not, the standard ways of judging players is what we follow

Slam count has been the parameter for excellence since the times of Sampras, it is what determines who is the best. Your 1 trick 1 dimensional pony has just 209 weeks at 1 which is like Hingis's count.... he does not hold the slams record.... So he has no claims at being the best ever player.

Fed was Sampras's successor and now it is Djokovic who is Federer's .... thats how it is.
 
The biggest opponent right now for Nadal and Djokovic is not one another but Father Time. And no one beats or cheats Father Time.
 
Razer said:
Greater players player longer, inferior players last less.... see, Nadal is the worst of the 3 for being unable to even play more.
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Well that’s one way to look at it but I don’t think anyone would agree with you in saying that Nadal was inferior.

It’s hard to play more if you’re injured and that was clearly the case with him.

:)
 
ghostofMecir said:
Eh, popyrin is different altogether as he looked mentally superior as a player to everyone not thinking he was going to lose for the past few weeks.
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Novak's made many comebacks from 0-2 sets, so credit to popyrin for actually going through and hanging up Novak's us open call (cue his post shelton 2023 uso match celebration).
 
sportsfan1 said:
He's been all of that for 5+ years. Players have been getting 2-0 sets up against him but lacking belief to close him out and gifting him slams instead. Until carlos and sinner came along and showed some spine at a couple of slams.
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Yea he's been making 32 double faults in 3 matches for the past 5 years. Clearly he's not playing overall this year anywhere near where he was playing last year except the Olympics, which should be obvious to anyone who watches tennis.
 
Torben said:
Well that’s one way to look at it but I don’t think anyone would agree with you in saying that Nadal was inferior.

It’s hard to play more if you’re injured and that was clearly the case with him.

:)
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Inferior bodies get injured repeatedly... the superior bodies are unbreakable

Djoker has gone 4.5 hours with Murray and then gone 6 hours with Nadal back to back and beaten them both at a slam..... today both of those fellows are finished while Novak isn't ...... even at age 37 his speed is not affected a lot despite the bodies of his rivals like Nadal/Murray or even the great Federer breaking down

Djokovic's knees got injured and like Superman he came back from surgery in 2-3 weeks and played..... Djokovic's body is superior and that makes him superior to Nadal as a player too.....

Nadal could never beat Novak at AO or take 3 sets off him on Grass while Novak has beaten Nadal everywhere...... Nadal is an inferior player..... Case Closed.
 
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GabeT said:
notice the “right now”? Reading the whole text you are responding to is a skill usually mastered in grade school
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Djokovic beat a horrible version of Nadal at the Paris Olympics.
Not to be confused with the RG tournament event.
 
Razer said:
Inferior bodies get injured repeatedly... the superior bodies are unbreakable

Djoker has gone 4.5 hours with Murray and then gone 6 hours with Nadal back to back and beaten them both at a slam..... today both of those fellows are finished while Novak isn't ...... even at age 37 his speed is not affected a lot despite the bodies of his rivals like Nadal/Murray or even the great Federer breaking down

Djokovic's knees got injured and like Superman he came back from surgery in 2-3 weeks and played..... Djokovic's body is superior and that makes him superior to Nadal as a player too.....

Nadal could never beat Novak at AO or take 3 sets off him on Grass while Novak has beaten Nadal everywhere...... Nadal is an inferior player..... Case Closed.
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You had originally stated that inferior players play less and superior players play more and now you are saying his body is inferior. That has a little different meaning.

Nadal is a year older but his body has gone through hell during his career. One can see that from the time he turned pro he was giving his all on every point in every match. Nadal put a lot of hard mileage on his body in the beginning of his career.

Now if you look at Djokovic, he didn’t approach his tennis in the way Nadal did. As a matter of fact, he retired quite a lot for a player in the early part of his career. He retired an astounding 13 times, with 10 of those coming in the first ten years of his career and 3 coming after 2015. Djokovic’s retirements angered Federer to the point of him saying “if you’re not fit enough, just get out of here.” He supposedly went on his “miracle diet” and was a changed man who could run for hours and hours. He only retired 3 times after 2015, so something sure changed.

Father time caught up with Nadal sooner but that doesn’t mean his body was inferior. There is no way you or anyone can measure the amount of stress each player puts on their bodies.
 
I think Nadal call it quits at Davis cup this year Malaga. Plays laver cup Saudi exho which he is signed up to then possibly just Davis cup but possibly like 1-2 indoors Paris masters maybe Vienna that’s my gut feeling
 
Razer said:
even at age 37 his speed is not affected a lot
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He has slowed considerably. He has been getting hammered at both the Australian Open and Wimbledon this year.

The younger players do not fear him and Popyrin was the latest to expose his age related vulnerabilities.
 
Another way to get Novak going again is by announcing gold medals would be awarded for your country at the majors. He is still good than 99% of the players, with a decent draw, some luck and bad play from Sincaraz and with the right levels of motivation he can possibly win another slam, just replace the trophy with a gold medal.
 
Torben said:
You had originally stated that inferior players play less and superior players play more and now you are saying his body is inferior. That has a little different meaning.

Nadal is a year older but his body has gone through hell during his career. One can see that from the time he turned pro he was giving his all on every point in every match. Nadal put a lot of hard mileage on his body in the beginning of his career.

Now if you look at Djokovic, he didn’t approach his tennis in the way Nadal did. As a matter of fact, he retired quite a lot for a player in the early part of his career. He retired an astounding 13 times, with 10 of those coming in the first ten years of his career and 3 coming after 2015. Djokovic’s retirements angered Federer to the point of him saying “if you’re not fit enough, just get out of here.” He supposedly went on his “miracle diet” and was a changed man who could run for hours and hours. He only retired 3 times after 2015, so something sure changed.

Father time caught up with Nadal sooner but that doesn’t mean his body was inferior. There is no way you or anyone can measure the amount of stress each player puts on their bodies.
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You can’t have your cake and eat it too always. One of the main reasons Rafa fans chant epic epic like in a cult is because of that fight for every damm point like his life depended on it. Heck that’s exactly what I admire myself in that man. That never say never attitude, wish I can have some of that spirit in my every day life! If I needed someone to play a tennis rally/point for my life, I know who I will pick! Now that can also have issues and downside…. the body starts breaking down easier and earlier than most. It’s actually a miracle he came back so many times and still won 22 majors!!
 
Torben said:
You had originally stated that inferior players play less and superior players play more and now you are saying his body is inferior. That has a little different meaning.

Nadal is a year older but his body has gone through hell during his career. One can see that from the time he turned pro he was giving his all on every point in every match. Nadal put a lot of hard mileage on his body in the beginning of his career.

Now if you look at Djokovic, he didn’t approach his tennis in the way Nadal did. As a matter of fact, he retired quite a lot for a player in the early part of his career. He retired an astounding 13 times, with 10 of those coming in the first ten years of his career and 3 coming after 2015. Djokovic’s retirements angered Federer to the point of him saying “if you’re not fit enough, just get out of here.” He supposedly went on his “miracle diet” and was a changed man who could run for hours and hours. He only retired 3 times after 2015, so something sure changed.

Father time caught up with Nadal sooner but that doesn’t mean his body was inferior. There is no way you or anyone can measure the amount of stress each player puts on their bodies.
Click to expand...

Nadal gives his all in every match..... others hold back ? .... Is that your argument ?

Injuries are part of the game, how do we even know Nadal's injuries are real and not excuses he made ? How do we even know Djokovic or Federer's injuries were real ?
Bottomline is, injuries can never be an excuse for having a higher moral ground or being hyped in hypotheticals, if you try to wank your injuries then your opponent will easily say you are faking it/you are a phony chickening out citing injury.

injuries are a part of the game..... staying fit is also a part of the game....mileage is mileage, there is nothing like hard milease and soft mileage..... Djokovic has also run a lot in his career like Nadal or Murray did..... he won more.... thats the only conclusion here.
Nadal chased every ball in his youth....so ??? SO WHAT ??? .... Who says that being athletic in your teens years or in your 20s reduces life in your 30s ? That same wear and tear should be applicable to Djokovic too, but why is it not ? Why he is still Supreme Fit unlike his peers ??? The obvious answer is that he is better

Let me remind you :----> Nadal could never take 3 sets from Djokovic at the Aus Open and Wimbledon ..... Djokovic has taken 3 sets multiple times from Nadal everywhere....... Nadal was an inferior player.... Just accept it.
 
Razer said:
I don't care what Djokovic fans came up with or not, the standard ways of judging players is what we follow

Slam count has been the parameter for excellence since the times of Sampras, it is what determines who is the best. Your 1 trick 1 dimensional pony has just 209 weeks at 1 which is like Hingis's count.... he does not hold the slams record.... So he has no claims at being the best ever player.

Fed was Sampras's successor and now it is Djokovic who is Federer's .... thats how it is.
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Bit of a contradiction there unless you admit Nadal was GOAT after AO 2022? I assume you also think Court Is GOAT.
If both of the above you agree with then all good.
I haven't said who I think is GOAT btw, I simply said it's an important dynamic looking at percentages of wins/tournaments played and has been used in other sports as a yardstick.
 
It is funny seeing the usual suspects of Fedal fans crawling out the woodwork. Djokovic slamless year doesn’t do anything for your heroes. One is retired and the other is on the verge of retirement. The damage was already done. I could understand you celebrating more if these losses stopped Djokovic passing their records but it came too late.

I guess I can see Fed fans being the happiest because Novak has failed to equal Fed at Wimbledon and us open. Not sure why Rafa fans are celebrating though?
 
messiahrobins said:
Bit of a contradiction there unless you admit Nadal was GOAT after AO 2022? I assume you also think Court Is GOAT.
If both of the above you agree with then all good.
I haven't said who I think is GOAT btw, I simply said it's an important dynamic looking at percentages of wins/tournaments played and has been used in other sports as a yardstick.
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Nadal was always either below Federer or below Djokovic, an eternal number 2. Nobody ever thought he was GOAT, thats for sure.
 
Razer said:
Nadal gives his all in every match..... others hold back ? .... Is that your argument ?
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Nadal was known for this. I never stated that others held back. That is your assumption. Stay on topic.
Razer said:
Injuries are part of the game, how do we even know Nadal's injuries are real and not excuses he made ? How do we even know Djokovic or Federer's injuries were real ?
Bottomline is, injuries can never be an excuse for having a higher moral ground or being hyped in hypotheticals, if you try to wank your injuries then your opponent will easily say you are faking it/you are a phony chickening out citing injury
Click to expand...
This doesn't warrant a response due to stupidity. To suggest Nadal has been faking his injuries shows your ignorance and lack of intelligence. We'll move on from that.
Razer said:
injuries are a part of the game..... staying fit is also a part of the game....mileage is mileage, there is nothing like hard milease and soft mileage..... Djokovic has also run a lot in his career like Nadal or Murray did..... he won more.... thats the only conclusion here.
Nadal chased every ball in his youth....so ??? SO WHAT ??? .... Who says that being athletic in your teens years or in your 20s reduces life in your 30s ? That same wear and tear should be applicable to Djokovic too, but why is it not ? Why he is still Supreme Fit unlike his peers ??? The obvious answer is that he is better
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Nadal has played hard his whole career, while Djokovic was known to be a quitter in the beginning of his career. You need to look up his match against Guillermo Coria at the 2005 French Open where he claimed that he couldn't breathe and his legs had turned to stone. That would've been a match filled with long rallies and plenty of running. He quit while playing Nadal in a semi final at Wimbledon in 2007. You should read Roddick's comments on Djokovic and his retirements. Djokovic has used every excuse in the book and even invented some new ones. The guy hasn't always had the superior body. He claims that his new diet and magic drinks changed everything. This doesn't erase how much of a quitter he was in the beginning of his career.
Razer said:
Let me remind you :----> Nadal could never take 3 sets from Djokovic at the Aus Open and Wimbledon ..... Djokovic has taken 3 sets multiple times from Nadal everywhere....... Nadal was an inferior player.... Just accept it.
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This has nothing to do with your original post and all I'll say is good for Djokovic. His best days are behind him and all you will have is your memories. He is getting hammered on a regular basis. It's getting embarrassing.
 
Torben said:
Nadal was known for this. I never stated that others held back. That is your assumption. Stay on topic.

This doesn't warrant a response due to stupidity. To suggest Nadal has been faking his injuries shows your ignorance and lack of intelligence. We'll move on from that.

Nadal has played hard his whole career, while Djokovic was known to be a quitter in the beginning of his career. You need to look up his match against Guillermo Coria at the 2005 French Open where he claimed that he couldn't breathe and his legs had turned to stone. That would've been a match filled with long rallies and plenty of running. He quit while playing Nadal in a semi final at Wimbledon in 2007. You should read Roddick's comments on Djokovic and his retirements. Djokovic has used every excuse in the book and even invented some new ones. The guy hasn't always had the superior body. He claims that his new diet and magic drinks changed everything. This doesn't erase how much of a quitter he was in the beginning of his career.

This has nothing to do with your original post and all I'll say is good for Djokovic. His best days are behind him and all you will have is your memories. He is getting hammered on a regular basis. It's getting embarrassing.
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Blah blah blah..... but Nadal remains inferior to Djokovic because he could never take 3 sets at AO or W while Novak took 3 sets everywhere multiple times... also Djokovic has 24 slams, 2x times weeks at 1 and a winning h2h

Nadal is now dust underneath Djokovic's shoes..... thats where he is ... the game is over..... There is no goat race now.... Djokovic has won.
 
Torben said:
Well that's an insightful response.


He is tied for top spot Margaret Court and will stay there forever. Those are the facts.

There is no way he is winning another slam.
:)
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He will win his 25th, don't worry. He is not finished like Nadal.

Novak is born to win while Nadal wasn't.

Gotta live with it, no ?
 
Razer said:
He will win his 25th, don't worry. He is not finished like Nadal.

Novak is born to win while Nadal wasn't.

Gotta live with it, no ?
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You keep on dreaming and we'll see what happens.

You are probably still reeling after that Popyrin loss, but do try to enjoy the rest of the tennis.

Yes I can live with Court and Djokovic tied with he most slams.
;)
 
Torben said:
You keep on dreaming and we'll see what happens.

You are probably still reeling after that Popyrin loss, but do try to enjoy the rest of the tennis.

Yes I can live with Court and Djokovic tied with he most slams.
;)
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Djoker has won, there is nothing left to dream.

Yes I am reeling from the popyrin loss, it affects me a lot, I am a dumbass who has nothing better to do in life than cheer for djokovic or nadal.... yeah man you are right.... you got me.... cool... cheers .... ???
 
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Torben said:
You keep on dreaming and we'll see what happens.

You are probably still reeling after that Popyrin loss, but do try to enjoy the rest of the tennis.

Yes I can live with Court and Djokovic tied with he most slams.
;)
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Pretty desperate to include women and men together, no? You sound like the US media trying to create drama where there is none. Firstly the guy you are arguing with is not even a Novak fan..he says outrageous stuff all the time and is an equal opportunity offender, he is not batting as a Novak fan as far as I can tell. Secondly, if we start including women’s tennis then Rafa is like 4th or 5th, no?
 
pirhaksar said:
Pretty desperate to include women and men together, no? You sound like the US media trying to create drama where there is none. Firstly the guy you are arguing with is not even a Novak fan..he says outrageous stuff all the time and is an equal opportunity offender, he is not batting as a Novak fan as far as I can tell. Secondly, if we start including women’s tennis then Rafa is like 4th or 5th, no?
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Lets see

Djokovic, Court, Williams and Graf all have more slams, so yeah, I guess he is 5th overall if we include both men and women.
 
pirhaksar said:
Pretty desperate to include women and men together, no?
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No. They are the facts. They are tied. In other words, Djokovic isn’t the greatest.
pirhaksar said:
Firstly the guy you are arguing with is not even a Novak fan..he says outrageous stuff all the time and is an equal opportunity offender, he is not batting as a Novak fan as far as I can tell.
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I don’t really care if he’s a Djokovic fan or not.
pirhaksar said:
Secondly, if we start including women’s tennis then Rafa is like 4th or 5th, no?
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It doesn’t matter where Nadal is to me. The point was that in terms of slam titles, Djokovic isn’t the best, he is tied with a woman named Court. He isn’t the greatest sorry to say. That’s pretty much it.
 
Hitman said:
Lets see

Djokovic, Court, Williams and Graf all have more slams, so yeah, I guess he is 5th overall if we include both men and women.
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That’s pretty much it.
(y)

All anyone needs to do is go and do a search to see who has the most titles. Nadal isn’t in the top three in that comparison and Djokovic doesn’t stand alone at the top.

It’s a little crowded on that top step.
 
pirhaksar said:
It’s really so dumb to put the men and women together. Blame the stupid US media like the 2 Chrissie and the idiotic Mcnroe bros trying to prop Serena up.
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It is what it is. But yeah imagine Nadal and Federer 5th and 6th....it makes them look even further behind Djokovic, who is still first, even if he is sharing it.
 
pirhaksar said:
It’s really so dumb to put the men and women together. Blame the stupid US media like the 2 Chrissie and the idiotic Mcnroe bros trying to prop Serena up.
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Hitman said:
It is what it is. But yeah imagine Nadal and Federer 5th and 6th....it makes them look even further behind Djokovic, who is still first, even if he is sharing it.
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377762635_3320650491414758_7317440101924147138_n.jpg
 
Hitman said:
And thankfully because of that, we got to enjoy your incredible insight into the world of professional tennis here. I know I am grateful for Rafa for that.
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Lmaooooo

Hitman with the perfect deadpan sarcasm in his third language. Well done sir
 
Hitman said:
It is what it is. But yeah imagine Nadal and Federer 5th and 6th....it makes them look even further behind Djokovic, who is still first, even if he is sharing it.
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It’s a travesty is what it is.. I have no problems if the women get paid same or get same trophies but the 2 are different sports, its ridiculous and unfair to the women actually.
 
Torben said:
No. They are the facts. They are tied. In other words, Djokovic isn’t the greatest.

I don’t really care if he’s a Djokovic fan or not.

It doesn’t matter where Nadal is to me. The point was that in terms of slam titles, Djokovic isn’t the best, he is tied with a woman named Court. He isn’t the greatest sorry to say. That’s pretty much it.
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Yeah I have nothing more to add to this except of course that I am never going to be able to agree with your position. It’s ok we can move on. The reason I said he was not a Novak fan is not whether you care or not but you seemed to imply his positions were because he was a Novak fan. That’s how most TTW comments are, you tailor the debate or stats or terms of the debate to prop your guy while dissing the guy you hate…I kind of assumed that here. My apologies if that was not your intent.
 
ghostofMecir said:
It’s not about motivation—he’s slower, makes more mistakes, has less stamina, and does not possess the shot making talent to ameliorate for these things
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He's 37 years old, playing poorly for his standards but still reached a Slam SF, QF (withdrew), and a F.

By any reasonable measure, his shot making talent has mitigated his physical decline and allowed him to play at a high level well past the retirement age of previous greats

Also, Djokovic won his last Slam at 36.3 years old. For comparison, Federer won his last Slam at 36.5 yo. ~2 months' worth of difference in "shot making talent", even if Novak never wins another Slam
 
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