Beta testers for racquetTune 3.0

stoneage

Rookie
I am working on a major update of racquetTune. Since I have gotten useful feedback from this forum before I would like to get in contact with 2-3 guys who are using the app and are interested in helping me by testing the next version. Mail me in that case.

And sorry, no Android version this time either :)

/Sten

_______________________________
racquetTune, swingTool and netHeight, tennis apps for the iPhone.
 

rosstheboss

New User
I am working on a major update of racquetTune. Since I have gotten useful feedback from this forum before I would like to get in contact with 2-3 guys who are using the app and are interested in helping me by testing the next version. Mail me in that case.

And sorry, no Android version this time either :)

/Sten

_______________________________
racquetTune, swingTool and netHeight, tennis apps for the iPhone.

Hi There
I use the current version and love it !! gave you a great review on the app store :) pretty please can i test it
racqueteers@live.co.uk
 

forthegame

Hall of Fame
I guess Android users will have to wait till the patent (not sure if that applies to software) expires and someone 'reverse engineers' an app!
 

stoneage

Rookie
I guess Android users will have to wait till the patent (not sure if that applies to software) expires and someone 'reverse engineers' an app!

No patent and no need to reverse engineer since it builds on public resesearch done by Cross and Bowers in Sydney 10 years ago. There is also a similar app for Android called FreqMess.


Is it going to be iP5 compatible?
I guess so. I you tell me what iP5 will be, I can tell you if it is compatible :)
 

GlenK

Professional
Just tried the tension tester. Strung up a racquet yesterday at 54/53.
Racquettune registered it at 69lbs.. oh well..
 

Dags

Hall of Fame
Just tried the tension tester. Strung up a racquet yesterday at 54/53.
Racquettune registered it at 69lbs.. oh well..

It's important to remember that this is just a reference number, though I have never seen it that far removed from the tension on the stringer. So long as you achieve repeatable results, it doesn't really matter.
 

stoneage

Rookie
No more beta testers needed.

Thanks for the response and I think I have all the volunteers I need.

/Sten
 

GlenK

Professional
That definitely sounds high. Please mail me at sten@appmaker.se if you have any more details. I is especially useful since I am doing a new version.

sten

Here is the email I just sent you.

Hi Sten,

I am always checking out ways to measure tension and/or stiffness. I like the way the RT works but I did find a distinct difference in what it registers for poly v. nylon.

I strung two racquets at the same time, one with WC Scorpion 1.22, the other with Head RIP control. Strung both racquets at 54/53.

Below are the readings in 24hrs and 48hrs for each string.

5/2 - Scorpion 1.22 - 47.2lbs - 35.4 SBS.
5/3 - Scorpion 1.22 - 47.1lbs - 35.3 SBS



5/2 - Rip Control 1.30 - 61.6lbs - 46.2 SBS
5/3 - Rip Control 1.30 - 60.8lbs - 45.7 SBS


As you can see, the scorpion job looks to be about what I "think" would be right. But it seems to read the nylon differently. I had all settings set correctly in this analysis. The one I mentioned for the 69lbs I did not have the string set correctly in settings for the Rip Control job.
The above was the result after I ensured I had all settings correctly.

Both are the same racquet, Head Prestige MP 18x20..

Note, I was taking my readings using the back of a spoon and used at least 5 readings for each. After about 3 readings they were consistent.

As long as they are consistent, we can still measure tension loss and the percentage of same. Would love to test any further upgrades.

Thanks....
GlenK
 
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J_aces

Semi-Pro
Cant wait to try the new version. In the old version poly measured almost exactly. Always within a lb and one time it measured exactly what I set it at
 

stoneage

Rookie
I strung two racquets at the same time, one with WC Scorpion 1.22, the other with Head RIP control. Strung both racquets at 54/53.
Below are the readings in 24hrs and 48hrs for each string.
5/2 - Scorpion 1.22 - 47.2lbs - 35.4 SBS.
5/3 - Scorpion 1.22 - 47.1lbs - 35.3 SBS

5/2 - Rip Control 1.30 - 61.6lbs - 46.2 SBS
5/3 - Rip Control 1.30 - 60.8lbs - 45.7 SBS

Thanks for your input. It interesting to compare two similar racquets with different strings. It is not surprising that the poly is lower, since they tend to lose tension quicker than nylon. But 14 lb is a bit (too) much. I have some string data that I have picked up from different people and there I found that someone had measured the density of RIP Control to 1.07 g/m instead of the 1.15 g/m I am using as standard for Synt Gut. If that is correct (I haven't tested myself) the string factor for a 1.30 string should be 1.42 instead of the 1.53 I guess you have used. This would lead to a tension of 57.0 lb instead of 61.6 lb, which is a little better (but still high). I think this confirm that the RIP control should be given a lower string factor than the standard.

Finally it would be interesting to know the frequencies that you are getting (they are shown in the oscilloscope view). I think that racquetTune gives a little to high tension for high frequencies, something I trying to correct in the new version.
 

stoneage

Rookie
Sten, could you include a less arcane racquet customization feature in one of the next updates? Something a la TW's for example.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customization.php

What do you mean by arcane? I developed it as an improvement to the fairly awkward TWU calculator. So instead of retyping numbers you can interactively drag the weight along the racquet to find the combination of weight and placement that suits you needs. I also thinks it gives you a better understanding of what is happening when you are placing weights at different places.
 

2ndServe

Hall of Fame
blx six one tour 90 strung with tour bite 17. at 70lbs on my klippermate it registered 10 times that with was 39-40 lbs. I'll try it on my other blx six one tour strung by a pro on a professional machine. This seems very off. It's tight so no way it's 39-40 lbs. It's between 60-70 lbs.
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
What do you mean by arcane? I developed it as an improvement to the fairly awkward TWU calculator. So instead of retyping numbers you can interactively drag the weight along the racquet to find the combination of weight and placement that suits you needs. I also thinks it gives you a better understanding of what is happening when you are placing weights at different places.

I simply mean it's not very intuitive. I do appreciate the current features, but a simple calculator would be less involved, even if I had to type the numbers in manually. Perhaps it's just me, but A + B = C is easier than navigating charts, diagrams, and tables, even with the iPhone's touch functionality. If that doesn't make sense, let me say that I find the app to be very busy, visually speaking.

I'm not requesting that you remove the current version, only that you consider adding a secondary means of calculation. Pretty please?

Whatever you decide, thanks for all the work.
 
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stoneage

Rookie
I simply mean it's not very intuitive. I do appreciate the current features, but a simple calculator would be less involved, even if I had to type the numbers in manually. Perhaps it's just me, but A + B = C is easier than navigating charts, diagrams, and tables, even with the iPhone's touch functionality. If that doesn't make sense, let me say that I find the app to be very busy, visually speaking.

I'm not requesting that you remove the current version, only that you consider adding a secondary means of calculation. Pretty please?

Whatever you decide, thanks for all the work.

I am open to all kinds of suggestions (even if I don't implement them right away) and different people have different needs. So I appreciate your input (I hope it didn't sound otherwise).

What would the ideal simple calculator do for you? What parameters would you enter what do want as a result? I.e. how do you use the TWU calculator today?
 

GlenK

Professional
Here is the email I just sent you.

Hi Sten,

I am always checking out ways to measure tension and/or stiffness. I like the way the RT works but I did find a distinct difference in what it registers for poly v. nylon.

I strung two racquets at the same time, one with WC Scorpion 1.22, the other with Head RIP control. Strung both racquets at 54/53.

Below are the readings in 24hrs and 48hrs for each string.

5/2 - Scorpion 1.22 - 47.2lbs - 35.4 SBS.
5/3 - Scorpion 1.22 - 47.1lbs - 35.3 SBS
5/6 - Scorpion 1.22 - 46.3Lbs - 34.8 SBS (after 2 hrs of play)
(576.0 hz for lbs) (576.5 hz for SBS)



5/2 - Rip Control 1.30 - 61.6lbs - 46.2 SBS
5/3 - Rip Control 1.30 - 60.8lbs - 45.7 SBS

5/6 - Rip Control 1.30 - 60.1Lbs - 45.1 SBS - (one hour of play)
(650.4 hz for lbs) (651.1 hz for SBS)

5/6 - Rip Control 54.7lbs-651.4 hz - 41.1 SBS-651.3 hz - After changing the string factor to 1.42

Thanks for your input. It interesting to compare two similar racquets with different strings. It is not surprising that the poly is lower, since they tend to lose tension quicker than nylon. But 14 lb is a bit (too) much. I have some string data that I have picked up from different people and there I found that someone had measured the density of RIP Control to 1.07 g/m instead of the 1.15 g/m I am using as standard for Synt Gut. If that is correct (I haven't tested myself) the string factor for a 1.30 string should be 1.42 instead of the 1.53 I guess you have used. This would lead to a tension of 57.0 lb instead of 61.6 lb, which is a little better (but still high). I think this confirm that the RIP control should be given a lower string factor than the standard.

Finally it would be interesting to know the frequencies that you are getting (they are shown in the oscilloscope view). I think that racquetTune gives a little to high tension for high frequencies, something I trying to correct in the new version.

I have added the latest readings to the original post in bold. Also showed the hz readings for each measure. On the last entry, I just manually changed the string factor for the Rip Control to 1.42. You were right, huge difference.
 

GlenK

Professional
Also, I think it would be a bit easier to enter the data on string thickness by just typing it in instead of the pull bar. It's tricky to change 1.25 to 1.22 by sliding that bar.
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
I am open to all kinds of suggestions (even if I don't implement them right away) and different people have different needs. So I appreciate your input (I hope it didn't sound otherwise).

What would the ideal simple calculator do for you? What parameters would you enter what do want as a result? I.e. how do you use the TWU calculator today?

Quickly match racquets. The current racquetTune app is OK for theoretical purposes, but sometimes I just want to take the weight and balance of a current frame, purchase another one, and figure out where I need to put X amount of weight for them to be the same - without the hassle of trial and error, or drag and drop. Is knowing swingweight important to me? Yes, but I don't have the resources to buy a fancy machine to measure/alter it the right way. So, modifying weight and balance will have to do, and a simple calculator (on my phone!) would make that much easier. If you could include an option for the point system for balance (something the TW version ostensibly lacks) I'd be more than appreciative.

Thanks again for your time and attention.
 
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Dags

Hall of Fame
I think that racquetTune gives a little to high tension for high frequencies, something I trying to correct in the new version.

As you're taking feedback, just a note on this. I appreciate the desire to get the readings as close as possible to the reference tension on the stringing machine as a lot of your people will expect them to match. However, really we know that the reading doesn't actually matter, so long as it's consistent. When I've upgraded your app in the past, it's clear you'd been making some alterations as my results changed quite dramatic in some cases. Unfortunately, this rendered previous data redundant - the worst case was when I had been monitoring a customer/hitting partner's tension, and the reading went UP!

I'm all for making the app as accurate as possible, and it would be great if I could string a customer's racquet at 60lbs and then show them a racquetTune reading that was also 60lbs. Just be careful not to change it too much.
 

Dags

Hall of Fame
Also, I think it would be a bit easier to enter the data on string thickness by just typing it in instead of the pull bar. It's tricky to change 1.25 to 1.22 by sliding that bar.

I actually like the slide bar.

My top 'wants' in the app are:

1.) ability to save different profiles so I can easily switch between racquets/strings etc I regularly test.

2.) ability to save history within each profile - date and reading it could get from the app, ability to manually input hours of play between readings would be useful. Opens up the possibility for you to include fancy graphs to show tension loss in different strings. Come on, how cool would that be? 8)
 
I am working on a major update of racquetTune. Since I have gotten useful feedback from this forum before I would like to get in contact with 2-3 guys who are using the app and are interested in helping me by testing the next version. Mail me in that case.

And sorry, no Android version this time either :)

/Sten

_______________________________
racquetTune, swingTool and netHeight, tennis apps for the iPhone.

Hey Sten just downloaded your App and it works great. You should definitely try and get an Android version of your App out because many of my friends have Android phones and never let me use phone anymore because they are constantly checking their racquets. Help me out here dude I did not go home with my phone two nights ago because one of my friends wanted to use the App on all of his families racquets. No rush though. :)
 
I actually like the slide bar.

My top 'wants' in the app are:

1.) ability to save different profiles so I can easily switch between racquets/strings etc I regularly test.

2.) ability to save history within each profile - date and reading it could get from the app, ability to manually input hours of play between readings would be useful. Opens up the possibility for you to include fancy graphs to show tension loss in different strings. Come on, how cool would that be? 8)

I am currently testing the 3.0 beta and if you want these features then you will be very pleased when the finished version is released.
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Sounds awesome. What I noticed is that the only racquets that read low were my prestige mids. I would string them at 48#s and they always read lower..in the 30s many times. Everything else was fine. Maybe it is something with midsize racquets.
 

stoneage

Rookie
Also, I think it would be a bit easier to enter the data on string thickness by just typing it in instead of the pull bar. It's tricky to change 1.25 to 1.22 by sliding that bar.

I agree, so I have already changed that.
 

stoneage

Rookie
As you're taking feedback, just a note on this. I appreciate the desire to get the readings as close as possible to the reference tension on the stringing machine as a lot of your people will expect them to match. However, really we know that the reading doesn't actually matter, so long as it's consistent. When I've upgraded your app in the past, it's clear you'd been making some alterations as my results changed quite dramatic in some cases. Unfortunately, this rendered previous data redundant - the worst case was when I had been monitoring a customer/hitting partner's tension, and the reading went UP!

I'm all for making the app as accurate as possible, and it would be great if I could string a customer's racquet at 60lbs and then show them a racquetTune reading that was also 60lbs. Just be careful not to change it too much.

I have made some small changes in the past, but I they were not intended to be dramatic.
I will do some final changes this time, but since I include the possibility to save the results I have to lock the algorithm after that.
 

stoneage

Rookie
Quickly match racquets. The current racquetTune app is OK for theoretical purposes, but sometimes I just want to take the weight and balance of a current frame, purchase another one, and figure out where I need to put X amount of weight for them to be the same - without the hassle of trial and error, or drag and drop. Is knowing swingweight important to me? Yes, but I don't have the resources to buy a fancy machine to measure/alter it the right way. So, modifying weight and balance will have to do, and a simple calculator (on my phone!) would make that much easier. If you could include an option for the point system for balance (something the TW version ostensibly lacks) I'd be more than appreciative.

Thanks again for your time and attention.

OK, that sounds like a useful thing. I'll think it over. However, I am not sure that I will do it for this version. But rather spend some more time on the swingweight later.
Have you tried swingTool (since you don't want to buy a fancy machine)?
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
OK, that sounds like a useful thing. I'll think it over. However, I am not sure that I will do it for this version. But rather spend some more time on the swingweight later.
Have you tried swingTool (since you don't want to buy a fancy machine)?

Take your time, brother. I got along well enough before the advent of smart phones, I think I can wait a while longer for another version of your convenient app. :D

I'll look into swingTool.
 

Dags

Hall of Fame
I am currently testing the 3.0 beta and if you want these features then you will be very pleased when the finished version is released.

I have made some small changes in the past, but I they were not intended to be dramatic.
I will do some final changes this time, but since I include the possibility to save the results I have to lock the algorithm after that.

I'm liking the sound of this. :)
 

stoneage

Rookie
Take your time, brother. I got along well enough before the advent of smart phones, I think I can wait a while longer for another version of your convenient app. :D

I'll look into swingTool.

I started thinking about it and got hooked, so there will be a target racquet to optimize against. As a penalty for getting this started you should be forced to beta-test at least that part. Mail me if you feel responsible (sten@appmaker.se) :)
 

GlenK

Professional
Working great and telling me just what I wanted to know. Looking forward to the update. If you need testers of future update, just let me know.


screenshot20110511at112.png
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
Depending on how much work you want to do for the end user, you could include an advanced option to output the specific length of tape required to achieve the desired weight/balance, and not just the weight to be added. For example, there could be radio buttons to select from 1/4 inch width, 1/2 inch width, 1/4 gram/inch weight, the rarer 1/8 gram/inch weight, and then input boxes for minimum and maximum desired lengths. Then the app could output in either inches or milimeters how many pieces of tape to add, in what lengths, and how many layers. So, if a racquet required a lot of tape, and the user set the max length to 4 inches, the app would ouput the minimum number of similar layers to achieve that weight. 

Frankly, that seems a bit involved for something that amounts to a simple conversion, but it's one more thing to consider.     
 
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