Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by dangalak, Oct 5, 2012.
The beauty of this thread is that people will not spam misleading stats from the ATP website. :lol:
Federer has always had a better backhand, though Nadal's backhand is a very underrated shot. Next question?
In 2008-2009 Nadal's was vastly better and arguably was until 2011.
Federer has more variety and a better backhand in general. But its always exploited by Rafas forehand. Nadal has a stable backhand because of the two hands and no one can come close to generating his topspin so we can never know how he would respond
Um, Djokovic picked on his backhand all day. :lol:
True but he picked on feds as well what im saying is we would never know how he would behave to his own topspin
fed can certainly attack more off of his, but nadals is more consistent. defidently worth discussing
@ OP... they were only misleading to you because you didn't agree with them.
Kinda like how you claimed that your opinion was factual.
Erm, what? Djokovic picking on Federer's BH? :lol:
If anything, it's the reverse. Pay attention to how Federer's BH always looks GOATlike when he plays Djokovic and how Djokovic's BH looks much worse than it usually is because of Federer's variety. The only match where Federer's BH struggles with Djokovic's was the FO this year and that was with Djokovic's BH hitting great angles and Federer not slicing enough.
Murray's BH causes Federer a lot more problems.
Oh shut your mouth for God's sake. :?
Only a moron would look at statistics and say that, for instance, Nadal had a better serve than Querrey in 2010. They only show who won the most points/games, they don't show what led to that. Nadal's or Federer's percentages are mostly because of their all around game, not because of their serves/returns.
It is funny how Federer fans think Federer has the better forehand, better backhand, as good or better movement, yet he loses most of the baseline rallies in 85% of their matches (basically every match that wasnt indoors).
I agree but also look at their rome encounter this year
Excuse me, Dangalak? Inside voices please.
Matchups? His BH isn't very good against Nadal. Federer's serve might be vastly superior to Nadal, but against Federer, Nadal's serve looks much better than it is since Federer struggles against it etc.
Also, nobody claimed that Federer currently moves anywhere near well as Nadal. :lol:
Nadal's BH has declined. back in the day it was a much better shot.
You also ignore things that cannot be put into usual categories of "FH, BH, movement". Passing shots, defense, consistency.
I mean it's like you're pretending to be stupid just to have a go at me. :?
There, Federer also sliced very rarely.
Djokovic typically hurts Federer with his FH, not his BH.
Old Man Fed, just watch some of his Wimbledon matches
Yeah, Djokovic has trouble dealing with Federer's backhand backspin.
Nadal, by far. Much more consistent, less prone to shanking and a more solid shot overall.
Federer has the worst backhand in the top 4. It's obviously still a hellavashot, but there is no way it is better than Nadal's.
Who cares if it's a "solid shot" if he can't hit it down the line to save his life. :lol:
And that's just if you compare their drive backhands. Federer's slice is lightyears ahead of Nadal's.
Not to mention, this isn't 2008. Federer is no longer leaking errors left and right from his BH.
Ok. im kinda new here so i dunno but how come 90% of the threads are polls like "who has better fh?" "who has better bh" "better shoes" "nicest hair"..
whats the point?
Federer and Nadal are great because of their forehand.
Murray and Djokovic are great as well because they're good on both wings.
It's hard to discuss because if you say Federer's backhand is better than Nadal's, then Nadal's forehand is better than Fed's to cover for lack of backhand? vice versa.. etc.....
And I would say that when Nadal was playing, his forehand was better than Fed's, but he's out right now so hard to say "currently".
On a clay court, yeah it is.
We at TW struggle for originality in terms of our threads, especially in between major tournaments. Higher quality trolls often tank this part of the season; however, they return fresh and eager usually a few days before the Australian Open begins.
The only way Federer has a better backhand than Nadal is if you do not isolate the slice as a separate shot. In terms of topspin backhand, it is not close. Nadal's is much better. In terms of slice, Federer's is much better, but in today's game the topspin drive is more important, and thus we can say Nadal has the better backhand. If slice is that important, I guess you could say Federer has a better backhand than Djokovic, too, as Djokovic's slice is much worse than Nadal's.
The results of the poll are so typically ridiculous. Let me ask Federer fans: According to you, Federer has the greatest forehand of all time--better than Nadal, better backhand, much better serve, much better return, much better net game and better movement. With all of these advantages, how does Federer lose so many matches to Nadal? Mental strength? Come on. Federer should dominate the rivalry, using his great serve and forehand to pound away cross court to Nadal's substandard backhand all the time. Yet it is the reverse that happens.
While I agree that it seems odd to say that Federer is better in all 3 categories (which I don't think he is), your reasoning is deeply flawed. Field VS match-up; relate your implications to parameters that do not just involve a singular opposition.
How is Nadal's topspin BH so good? He literally cannot hit it down the line with any authority unless he is approched and has to pass or he hits a sunday punch like BH. His backhand is as innocuous as you consider Federer's to be. It's almost like Murray's FH. Unlike, say, in 2008-2009, his BH has lost almost all of it's sting. These days, you can expect to pound forehands to his backhand and not fear to get a CC BH ripped past you and it had much better length.
As opposed to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkI4FpZDQcc
Federer having a better slice than Djokovic doesn't make his BH better for the reason that Djokovic's twohander is one of the top 5 in history, if not top 3. I cannot say the same for Nadal.
The last paragraph of yours is a joke. Nobody believes that Federer moves better than Nadal. His return isn't better than Nadal's either.
The reason why Nadal can punish Federer's backhand is because he can punish Federer's ONEHANDED backhand with his HIGH BOUNCING FH. The reverse doesn't happen because Nadal owns a twohander and Federer's FH doesn't bounce as high. Then there's the fact that Federer's favourite BH shot, the slice, is ineffective against Nadal, since he cannot get it on his BH consistently and a guy like Nadal can get that slice up and down easily.
Not to mention how Nadal's normally inferior serve is hard to return for Federer specifically.
Finally, the majority of their matches have been played on clay, where Nadal is the better mover, has the better forehand, the better backhand and where his inferiority in serve and net game matters little.
I said, if slice is equally important as topspin, then Federer's backhand is better than Djokovic's. The difference between Djokovic's topspin backhand and Federer's, while vast, is not as big as the difference between Federer's slice and Djokovic's.
Nobody believes that? There are probably a dozen threads on those two issues in the last month alone. It is almost a consensus among TW's Federer fans that Federer is a better mover (or was during his prime) than Nadal and has a better return. I think the first point of those is laughable and the second point at least debatable.
Complete contradiction there. If Federer's forehand is the greatest of all time and Nadal's backhand, two-handed or not, is garbage, then Federer can pound it all day long and crush the inevitable short balls. The fact that Federer can't hit high bouncing topspin shots to his backhand completely undermines your viewpoint, especially in the same paragraph you are saying Nadal's two-hander can essentially handle any shot, including the best groundstroke in game history in Federer's forehand.
So even his slice doesn't work against Nadal either? Damn, what a great backhand. Yet Nadal's terrible backhand can take all of that punishment from Federer.
Ah clay, the great neutralizer. But then, Nadal has a winning record against Federer on hard court as well.
The slice isn't equally important as topspin.
Federer is in no way as good as a mover as any of the top 4 currently. Federer being a better mover than Nadal in his prime is not utterly ridiculous and a possibility if you out more value in footwork. (remember Madrid? :lol
However, the reality is that they are fairly close and that Nadal is possibly the greatest mover ever.
I don't think so. Federer's backhand is brilliant against somebody like Djokovic and is a great shot against the vast majority of players.
I know that the likes of you frown at the word "match-up" but nothing else explains Nadal's ability to beat Federer more often than not over a time frame where he would typically get spanked by people in slams, that have a combined H2H record against Federer of 11-75 or something. :lol:
One handed backhands typically can't deal with that shot. There are not many players capable of doing what Nadal does, so I'm going to strike that out as an exception.
Nadal's serve is also more effective against Federer than Roddick's. Does that mean his serve is better?
Slices generally don't work well on forehands. That is an issue of Nadal's lefty status and his movement.
No he doesn't. Pretty sure Federer leads 6-5.
Since I haven't seen Nadal play since June, I say Federer.
Another addition has to be that this thread asks about theri CURRENT backhands. Throughout the recent years, Federer's backhand was far less consistent than it is right now, while Nadal's BH was a good deal more potent, than it is right now. Nadal beating Federer from the Monte Carlo final in 2008 to the Australian Open final 2009 has no bearing on how superior or inferior Nadal's backhand is to Federer's.
Federer CAN'T punish the inevitable short balls, because Federer would have to follow them to the net, where he is faced with what is possibly the best passing shot artist in history. Not to mention I never deemed Nadal's backhand garbage.
It is funny. It's other things too.
Seriously, how can you be a regular of the Former Players forum, yet be so ignorant of this sport?
There are some delusional people in this thread, Federer's backhand is definitely better right now especially on a hard or grass court. Nadal's backhand used to be a damn good shot but it's deteriorated into a weak push. He really can't do anything with that shot any more and is utterly desperate to run around it to hit forehands (even more so than Federer).
On the other hand, IMO Nadal's forehand is currently better than Federer's on most of the tour surfaces. Federer's forehand is still easily the second best on tour and by far the best on faster surfaces and indoors but overall Nadal has it these days by a decent margin.
LOL what a joke this thread is. Federer HANDS DOWN!!!... owns ****** in that department.
Silly ****s. :lol:
Oh how we have missed you! F1
Fed's BH is pretty. Rafa BH is fugly. It's all about beauty btw.
Fed's hair > Rafa's
Mirka sexier than Xsisca, lol, OK I'll shut up
Oh no!! he's gone to the dark side :shock:
That's because most of their rallies are Nadal's forehand to Federer's backhand, while I think Federer's backhand can live with Nadal's forehand on faster surfaces, especially indoors, on clay it's a tough task.
You know how hot Mirka used to be.
I disagree. Federer penetrates the court a lot easier and has an easier time picking up halfvolleys from the baseline and hitting FH DTLs. Last but not least, he also has more touch and variety from that wing. Don't laugh, his forehand dropshots can be really lethal. Nadal on the other hand is underusing them.
I would give Nadal advantages in consistency and on the run, but the latter is mostly movement anyway.
I would definitely pick Nadal's on a claycourt, but Federer everywhere else.
then that means the rallies are being controlled by Rafa. Why can't Fed change the character of their rallies then and impose himself if he if so darn good ?
Because Nadal has wicked passing shots.
Why are most of their rallies this way? Federer, who is better at everything according to his fans, and is the more aggressive player, should be the one dictating play and sending his forehands to Nadal's backhand much more than vice-versa. Federer has the better serve: he should be following up Nadal's weak returns (remember, Nadal is a "terrible returner") by pounding the short return to Nadal's backhand over and over again. Yet the rallies almost always--via some unseen demonic force--reverse and Nadal ends up being the one in control dictating play and attacking the Federer backhand.
The fact that Federer needs a fast surface to realize his backhand is an argument against the strength of Federer's backhand, not for it. On a fast indoor surface Federer can flick the ball down the line using the other guy's pace for a winner. On a slow court, he can't generate sufficient pace most of the time to hit backhand winners. When he hits them it is by redirecting a hard hit ball from a perfect angle. He has to run around a not very hard hit short ball to hit a forehand because he cannot generate the power needed on his backhand.
Federer has to be incredibly aggressive to dominate Nadal. (i.e. stand in his BH corner and drill forehands)
Nadal can just wail away from his forehand corner and hit an I/O FH when he pleases. :lol:
And please, stop making up strawman FGS. He is a decent returner, especially when Federer's serve is concerned. His passing shots also make it difficult when Federer has a shorter ball, something he would easily follow to the net if he faced another player.
I know you are giving Nadal credit on his returns, speed and passing shots, but most Federer fans here do not. I am attacking their positions as well.
The point, faranell, is this:
1. Many of the most active posters here (those who start threads) are previously banned posters returning under new usernames.
2. They have time. Lots of time.
3. They have nothing better to do than to spend every waking hour on an internet forum.
Eg. The OP has been on the forum for less than a month. During that time, he has started 25 threads and has more than 450 posts.
So, what does one do? One can ignore users but there is no tool to prevent us from seeing this explosive diarrhoea of inane threads. So, you just try to go away from the forums for weeks at a time. When you come back, you discover that you've missed nothing. Works for me all the time.
Or better, just go to the Racquets subforum. That is still a saner forum than General Pro Player discussion and Pro-Match Results.
I dunno, he can certainly create pace as well. Just not very often off Nadal's balls. :lol:
I have been banned true, but I didn't need to make a dupe, they just unbanned me. :lol:
What's wrong with comparing their current BHs? Clearly there is some room for dicussion.
Why is diarrhea always referred to as "explosive"? I don't think I've ever smashed a toilet after a burrito. :lol:
The Nadal backhand has declined considerably in the passed couple of years...wonder how much has to do with how aggressively he planted on the right knee from a full sprint to achieve the torque necessary to rip it cross court
In terms of forehand shot, Federer and Nadal's are both great. I would give the slight edge to Federer.
Backhand shot, probably about equal but Federer has more variety.
Movement--if you are talking footwork, Federer is better; if you are talking sheer athleticism and defence, Nadal is much better, one of the best ever in the game.
Right now Fed's BH is easily a lot more potent than Nadal's. Only during the 08 Wimby to 09 AO period and then USO 10, did Rafa's BH look like a killer weapon. Otherwise I would take Fed's BH any day. Of course Djoker and Murray are in a different league altogether in the BH department, just like Fed/Rafa are in a different league in the FH dept.
Try hitting a shoulder height one-handed backhand and you'll get your answer.
I do as well. Just because I never talk about it (or Federer fans in general), it doesn't mean that I don't give him any credit.
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