Better Career Henin or Hingis?

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some comparisons:

Olympics:

Henin: 1 Gold
Hingis: 0

Slams :

Henin 7 wins, 4 runner Ups
Hingis : 5 wins, 7 runner ups.

total weeks at No.1

Henin: 117 weeks
Hingis 209 weeks.

Singles match record:

Henin 496-107 (82.26%)
Hingis: 548-133 (80.47%)

wta titles:

Henin: 41 , 16 RU
Hingis: 43 , 26 RU

Years in top 10:

Henin : 7
Hingis: 8

year end #1:

Henin 3 times
Hingis: 3 times

Doubles slams:

Henin 0 wins, 0 runner ups
Hingis: 9 wins, 2 runner ups

wta Doubles titles:

Henin : 2 , 1 RU
Hingis 37, 14 RU

Doubles career record:

Henin: 47-35 (57.32%)
Hingis: 286-54 (84.12%)

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Henin takes it in singles, but overall Hingis may take it due to winning so many more doubles slams.
 
Henin takes it full-stop. Doubles doesn't mean enough in the modern era, which is why the 'legends-in-the-making' almost always focus on singles alone.
 
could also be because its difficult to be good at both.

OrangeOne said:
Henin takes it full-stop. Doubles doesn't mean enough in the modern era, which is why the 'legends-in-the-making' almost always focus on singles alone.
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Well just by a virtue than Henin could have probably continued to march o with her career and win a few more in each category, Id give her the edge. Hingis had he period but once the bashing game started and the bog girls took over, she was outpowered and did not manage to find any way to get past them so she retired for the first time. Comback was lame so it can be counted out. Henin however did exactly what Hingis did not, he stood firm vs very girls who were beating Hingis ( the big hard hitting Davenport, Williams Sis's etc. ) and retired at nr1 while still having a couple of slams more to her name surely - if she stayed focused and determined. That is the tip that decides for me.

Other than that both girls are pretty much similar with acomplishments.
 
Henin by far for me. 7 slams to 5 is already a clear difference. 4 of Henin's 7 came at the French, but 3 of Hingis's 5 game in Australia which is still the weakest slam to alot of people. Hingis won 3 slams in a year once, but that was the only year she had multiple slams. Henin won atleast one slam per year over a 5-year stretch, and had two different 2-slam years 4 years apart. She also had an additional year of reaching all 4 slam finals. Henin was year end #1 3 times like Hingis, but unlike Hingis they were all within reason, while Hingis's last year end #1 was a farce. Both had a slam they never won, Henin Wimbledon, Hingis the French, so neither managed the career slam, Wimbledon is the bigger of the two but it isnt that big a difference with neither winning one of the major ones in the end. Henin had her wins when there were many more big hitters at the top then when Hingis won most of hers. Henin would have been much more dominant in 97-99 if she were at her peak then, and both at their best Henin destroys Hingis.
 
Oh yeah doubles is irrelevant to me in this day in age when evaluating players greatness, and is a seperate category altogether. To those that value it more, I respect that, however I just dont. Doubles these days is more for fun and who wants to do, and it is mostly for those who dont make it big in singles, with the odd big name singles playing it for fun.
 
lambielspins said:
Oh yeah doubles is irrelevant to me in this day in age when evaluating players greatness, and is a seperate category altogether. To those that value it more, I respect that, however I just dont. Doubles these days is more for fun and who wants to do, and it is mostly for those who dont make it big in singles, with the odd big name singles playing it for fun.
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Yea it was slaughter during the davis cup when one of the bryan brothers played Andreev in singles.:twisted:
 
Hingis. I was going to go with Henin for the slightly better singles results, but then the doubles just tips the scale in the other direction.
 
I also have to agree with Max.G. if Hingis didn't have any injuries i say she would of had a chance at finals during the williams sisters reign. Being a counter puncher she is Hingis's injury became a big problem chasing down balls and her footwork. Her footwork was far better then other women on tour at the time but it wasn't her best that wowed the fans. Also the doubles did push my vote for her even more because winning in doubles means you have great chemistry with many players. Also it means you were dominating the both side of the tour doubles and singles.
 
i have to go with hingis....sure doubles may not be as important as singles, but i think that adds to her accomplishments and pushes her ahead of En-Uh
 
why is 7 slams so much greater than 5?

if were talking like thats such a big difference, then the 9 'minor' grand slam doubles titles that martina has pushes her way over justine
 
7 slams to 5 is a big difference between since a 30% ratio is alot. It would be like 15 slams vs 21. Especialy when Henin did this vs better competition then Hingis too, the 97-early 98 field which she won all but 1 of her singles slams against was a complete joke. If doubles slams are even given a half the importance of singles then Ruano Pascaul and Saurez are both greater players to Davenport, Capriati, and Sharapova.
 
7 slams> 5 slams,I don't care about doubles so for me Justine is clearly better.I also think Henin had better competiton,her beating of both Williams sisters in a row last year at USO was amazing even considering that the Williams sisters are past their prime.
 
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But at the end who has more prize money? and Henin won the grand slams at a later years which means that she got paid more but how come she doesnt have a greater prize moeny then hingis? why thats because Hingis played terrific in doubles!
 
kungfusmkim said:
But at the end who has more prize money? and Henin won the grand slams at a later years which means that she got paid more but how come she doesnt have a greater prize moeny then hingis? why thats because Hingis played terrific in doubles!
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But who puts that much weight on doubles this days? I've never seen anyone even dare to suggest that Mcenroe is a better player then Sampras because if we count doubles slams he has I think 16 which is more then Sampras.
 
Hingis by a long shot. The only thing Henin has over her is 2 more slams BUT, look at Henin's opponent's in the finals:

A mentally weak Clijsters, Kuznetsova, and Ivanovic...Henin hasn't beaten Venus, Serena, or even Sharapova in a slam final. Hingis did...

Hingis has more prize money, more titles, more runner ups, and more doubles. And those saying doubles are irrelevant are just arrogant. Hingis accomplished more and her career is far better than Henin's. Admit it...

And and you guys cannot forget Hingis won the most prestigious slam...Wimbledon.

Hingis led the head to head before she retired too. The last two Henin won don't count because Hingis just returned and she's not the same as the old Hingis.

Henin can NEVER in her life have the talent Hingis had. Hingis was a true stand out literally. She took the ball super early. Had more variety and finesse.

K.O. - Hingis wins. END of discussion.
 
zagor said:
But who puts that much weight on doubles this days? I've never seen anyone even dare to suggest that Mcenroe is a better player then Sampras because if we count doubles slams he has I think 16 which is more then Sampras.
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But what you don't get is Sampras and McEnroe are of two different generation of players...Hingis and Henin are in the same generation.

In the end though, Serena is the best of the generation. Venus will probably end up being 2nd best and then Hingis AND THEN Henin.
 
willgonase10 said:
Hingis by a long shot. The only thing Henin has over her is 2 more slams BUT, look at Henin's opponent's in the finals:

A mentally weak Clijsters, Kuznetsova, and Ivanovic...Henin hasn't beaten Venus, Serena, or even Sharapova in a slam final. Hingis did...

Hingis has more prize money, more titles, more runner ups, and more doubles. And those saying doubles are irrelevant are just arrogant. Hingis accomplished more and her career is far better than Henin's. Admit it...

And and you guys cannot forget Hingis won the most prestigious slam...Wimbledon.

Hingis led the head to head before she retired too. The last two Henin won don't count because Hingis just returned and she's not the same as the old Hingis.

Henin can NEVER in her life have the talent Hingis had. Hingis was a true stand out literally. She took the ball super early. Had more variety and finesse.

K.O. - Hingis wins. END of discussion.
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amen

10 chars
 
But Henin beat Serena and Venus back-to-back to win a slam last year at USO,did Hingis ever do that? Also last year both Serena and Venus won a slam so they were in good form last year and Henin beat them both in a row.Also while Henin hasn't beaten Serena in a slam final she beat her last year in 3 slams(all in quarters).
 
I wonder if beating Venus in the 97 U.S Open final, or beating both Serena and Venus in last years U.S Open on the way to the title was a bigger accomplishment.
Hmmm that is a hard choice isnt, LOL!

As for Maria other then one match she served up a can of whoop ass vs Martina while she still has a bigtime losing record with Henin.
 
Henin for sure, too bad she didn't stay longer at #1 but her game was so much more impressive than Hingis, she also beat more formidable opponents IMO
 
Come to think of it, the Williams Sisters and Hingis are overall better than Henin.

Venus, Serena, and Hingis played doubles and the sisters got Gold for Doubles at the Olympics.

So I would rank players of this generation in this order:

1. Serena
2. Venus
3. Hingis
4. Sharapova
5. Mauresmo

I don't think Henin is even in the top 10 greatest.
 
zagor said:
Oh please,Henin defeated Venus in 1997,the year Venus didn't reach another final or even semi in a single tournament other then that amazing run at USO.Also it's not only who you beat in the final,quarters and semis can have very tough opponents as well and last year at USO Henin beat Serena and Venus in a row and Kuznetsova in the final so that's 15 slams.Also,as I already said both Serena and Venus won a slam last year so they were playing good tennis and Henin handled both of them.
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You have no credibility at all. Henin did not even play Venus in 1997...Get your facts right.

And Serena beat Graf in 1999 so thats 20+ slams...

Oh and Serena was not in good form at the 2007 US Open. She struggled even against plays who can't even hurt her.
 
willgonase10 said:
You have no credibility at all. Henin did not even play Venus in 1997...Get your facts right.

And Serena beat Graf in 1999 so thats 20+ slams...

Oh and Serena was not in good form at the 2007 US Open. She struggled even against plays who can't even hurt her.
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Yeah,my mistake I meant Hingis.
 
zagor said:
Yeah,I agree with you.
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Thanks. Willgonase10 is frantic but Lambielspins' arguments make much more sense. Too bad that just a day after she retired, the haters are already out in full force. "Henin isn't that great", come on, it seems he didn't watch her matches at USO last year, they were nothing short of amazing + she's been incredibly dominant at the French. I also agree that Henin had to deal with tougher opponents. And by the way the match Hingis played against Graf at the French was a disgrace both tenniswise and attitudewise.
 
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<Mod Mode> Calling other TT-ers "Troll" is name-calling and against TT policy. Please calm down. </Mod Mode>


I *do* count Dubs. Hingis' 14 slams is a much more impressive total than Henin's 7.

- KK
 
Henin. Not only in terms of career achievement but also in terms of what she personally got from those achievement.
I don't think for Hingis, the achievement in tennis meant as much as it did for Henin.
 
Too much of Hingis' career is bolstered by that one great year.

Henin, most definitely.

Speaking of competition, Hingis folded once the Williams sisters developed. Henin won her share with the sisters in full bloom and would have won more without them.
 
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Kaptain Karl said:
<Mod Mode> Calling other TT-ers "Troll" is name-calling and against TT policy. Please calm down. </Mod Mode>
Click to expand...

So to get this straight, trolling - the activity - is mostly ok unless it's extreme, but to call someone out as trolling is not OK.

Ok then.

I *do* count Dubs. Hingis' 14 slams is a much more impressive total than Henin's 7.
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That's ridiculous. Adding singles and dubs slams as if they're the same is just inequitable.

Kournikova won two grand slams in doubles, which is numerically far more impressive than Clijsters single grand slam in Singles. I have no idea if Clijsters won any dubs GS's, but if she didn't, by your calculations, Kournikova gets the nod. Ridiculous.
 
let me put it this way, as much as i love hingis, henin is sort of exactly like hingis, but with more power, thus her winning MORE SINGLES Majors than hingis, she has more potent shots and weapons than hingis, and when she slowly reached her peak, she not only gave the ws sisters fits, also davenport and sharapova, opponents who constantly trouble hingis.
 
oh, let's also not discount the chance that justine might have won more titles over all than hingis in singles, and that her weeks are #1 were cut short as she retired.

i think it is moot right now to even consider hingis above henin if you talk about singles (don't know why they even count doubles, but it is my opinion).
 
So now we're going to give doubles slams the same worth as singles and count them the same? Hilarious,next thing I know people here we'll start convincing me that Bjorkamn is a better player then Becker because hey,he he has overall 9 slams compared to his six,what a strange logic to follow.I didn't realized how many people here are biased against Henin.
 
zagor said:
So now we're going to give doubles slams the same worth as singles and count them the same? Hilarious,next thing I know people here we'll start convincing me that Bjorkamn is a better player then Becker because hey,he he has overall 9 slams compared to his six,what a strange logic to follow.I didn't realized how many people here are biased against Henin.
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Henin haters are just grasping for something work with. Anything will do even if it were winning bingo.
 
That's a very tough call. Henin has 7 Slam titles to Hingis' 5 Slam titles.

Advantage Henin.


Hingis has 209 weeks at #1 to Henin's 118 weeks.

Advantage Hingis.


Hingis has 44 singles titles to 41 singles titles for Henin.

Advantage Hingis.


You could make a case for either player. Personally I think that Henin had the better game and more Slam titles but Hingis had slightly more success overall.
 
I give it to Henin. The only field that gives Hingis probably the eternal edge over her is total weeks at number 1 because hingis got there so young. Hingis's doubles stats, while also impressive, don't impact overall greatness in singles, if they did we'ds put Pam Shriver in the top 10 greatest singles players for what she did alongside Navratilova in doubles. Hingis had a great career and she did do what she did in less time then Henin, but I believe had Henin not retired she would have surpassed everything Hingis surpassed her in in your criteria except maybe total weeks at number 1. Hingis had a great career, but Henin did what she did during the age of power hitters, if Hingis in her prime played today, I don't think she would have succeeded as much as Henin did. Credit to Hingis, but Henin's career is better.
 
OrangeOne said:
That's ridiculous. Adding singles and dubs slams as if they're the same is just inequitable.
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Okay then. How about factoring the Dub's Majors by ".5"? Hingis still has 9.5 Major titles.

Kournikova won two grand slams in doubles, which is numerically far more impressive than Clijsters single grand slam in Singles. I have no idea if Clijsters won any dubs GS's, but if she didn't, by your calculations, Kournikova gets the nod. Ridiculous.
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By the factoring above, they are equal. (A lot of people don't realize how good a tennis player Anna K. really was. Yeah, she was a bit of a head case in Singles, but she was a very solid player.)



zagor said:
... next thing I know people here we'll start convincing me that Bjorkamn is a better player then Becker because hey,he he has overall 9 slams compared to his six,what a strange logic to follow.
Click to expand...
See the factoring.... Bjorkman is "better" than Roddick ... than Safin ... than anyone with fewer than 4.5 Majors.

I didn't realized how many people here are biased against Henin.
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Curious. On the Henin
Retirement thread there's a TT-er who keeps making that (illogical) leap, too.

a) Henin is a known cheater ... with some really impressive achievements.

b) I have a pro-Doubles bias, if anything....

- KK
 
zagor said:
So now we're going to give doubles slams the same worth as singles and count them the same?
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No, not the same worth. But when singles career accomplishments are fairly similar, we can look to doubles results to break the "tie." And in this case, Hingis was a doubles legend while Henin was a no-show.
 
Hingis did not deserve her #1 ranking atleast half the time she held it. She would often be ranked #1 over someone holding 2 slam titles at the time while she held 0. She actually went almost 3 full years holding the #1 ranking almost the entire time, while not winning even 1 slam title in those almost 3 full years. Alot of her time in the #1 ranking was largely based around a horribly flawed ranking system. Her #1 ranking weeks should not be given much value since she didnt even deserve that ranking over half the time she held it.
 
lambielspins said:
Hingis did not deserve her #1 ranking atleast half the time she held it. [Blah, blah, blah.]
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What a ridiculous claim. You don't understand how the rankings work, do you?

Theoretically, one could be #1 without ever winning a tournament. If you lost in the Final of 40 tournaments -- to a different player in each Final -- you'd be #1. It's statistics, not emotions like yours, which determine the rankings.

- KK
 
zagor said:
So now we're going to give doubles slams the same worth as singles and count them the same? Hilarious,next thing I know people here we'll start convincing me that Bjorkamn is a better player then Becker because hey,he he has overall 9 slams compared to his six,what a strange logic to follow.I didn't realized how many people here are biased against Henin.
Click to expand...


I'd given Henin the slight edge, but I don't think anyone is "equating" singles and doubles. The Bjorkman-Becker comparison isn't relevant as Bjorkman as zero singles slams. I think the pro-Hingis posters are pointing out that she was a strong foundation of 5 singles slams in addition to 9 doubles Slams. They are not saying that, in terms of deciding who had the better career (which I think is pointless, they both contributed much to the game and ended their careers early), that Hingis is better because she has 14 slams overall compared to Henin's 7. They are simply saying that doubles is worth "something" even if not as much as singles. They are saying that the special skills for doubles deserves recognition. The are giving credit for Hingis not only playing doubles, but being committed to it, and winning at the highest level.

Again, if we were actually voting, I would probably give a very slight edge to Henin, but I hardly think those who would vote for Hingis are crazy or misinformed.

Also, the question was not "who has the better singles player", but "who had the better career."
 
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