Better career : Zverev or Stich

[spottishwood]

Michael Stich:
1 GS (WC'91)
1 WTF
1 GS cup
1 Olympic Doubles Gold
2 masters
13 titles

Alexander Zverev:
0 slams
2 WTF
5 masters
1 Olympic Singles gold
19 titles

Who had a better career? Included Stich's stats until 1993 only for a better comparison.

 

[Rosstour]

I think I've been reading here that Stich is a better Wimbledon champion than Federer, so probably him

 

[BeatlesFan]

Stich won Wimbledon, Zverev has won no slam.

Next.

 

[spottishwood]

I think I've been reading here that Stich is a better Wimbledon champion than Federer, so probably him

lol did anybody really say that. That's a bit too much

 

[spottishwood]

Stich won Wimbledon, Zverev has won no slam.

Next.

Medvedev could've been a better comparison, no?

 

[TheNachoMan]

Zverev has already nearly surpassed Stich in match wins too. If he wins a slam then he’s definitely clear of Stich

 

[Rosstour]

lol did anybody really say that. That's a bit too much

Not sure, ask @Spencer Gore

Or maybe it was Ivanesivic who was better than Federer. Not sure

 

[spottishwood]

Zverev has already nearly surpassed Stich in match wins too. If he wins a slam then he’s definitely clear of Stich

Does he ever?

 

[MurraysMetalHip]

Zverev is better than Djokovic, Federer and Nadal, so it’s disrespectful to ask whether he is better than Stich.

 

[mistik]

Zverev has to win a slam first for this question to make any sense.

 

[mattennis]

Stich defeated Stefan Edberg and Boris Becker back-to-back in the semi-finals and finals to win Wimbledon in 1991, Becker and Edberg having played against each other in the three previous Wimbledon finals... just stop and think about it for a moment.

Zverev has never defeated a top-10 player in a grand slam match...think about it again...

 

[TheNachoMan]

Does he ever?

Most likely, yes. There’s a massive vacuum era ala 2000-2003 coming up soon.

 

[onefineday]

Stich. He's got some serious stories to tell. He won Wimbledon. Had win over Becker in a slam final. Was No.2. Played some great matches.
Zverev will be able to say I made a lot of lolly.

 

[spottishwood]

Stich defeated Stephan Edberg and Boris Becker back-to-back in the semi-finals and finals to win Wimbledon in 1991, Becker and Edberg having played against each other in the three previous Wimblendon finals... just stop and think about it for a moment.

Zverev has never defeated a top-10 player in a grand slam match...think about it again...

That slam win of his is as strong as it can be. He couldn't bring back that intensity ever again for 2 weeks

Zverev has to win a slam first for this question to make any sense.

I made this thread cuz I've seen many posters here arguing that Z is already greater than the likes of Stich, Goran, Roddick etc. Wanted to know what's the opinion of majority.

 

[spottishwood]

Most likely, yes. There’s a massive vacuum era ala 2000-2003 coming up soon.

Can't say for sure, if he fails to get hold of a slam by 2023, the younger gen will not allow him to.

 

[spottishwood]

Zverev is better than Djokovic, Federer and Nadal, so it’s disrespectful to ask whether he is better than Stich.

@Yugram

 

[UnderratedSlam]

What a bizarre thread.

You picked those two randomly out of a hat, didn't you?

 

[spottishwood]

You picked those two randomly out of a hat, didn't you?

Ofc mate

 

[UnderratedSlam]

Ofc mate

What crucial similarity do these two possess for us to closely compare them - aside from the fact that one is German and the other kind-of German?

 

[spottishwood]

What crucial similarity do these two possess for us to closely compare them - aside from the fact that one is German and the other kind-of German?

One has an olympic gold, and the other has a kind of olympic gold

 

[TheNachoMan]

@Yugram

He is no longer with us. F

 

[spottishwood]

He is no longer with us. F

Oh yeah. I recall him getting banned. He went into a full troll mode. Had already escaped the ban last time, no chance now.

 

[Olli Jokinen]

Why is this even a question?

 

[RaulRamirez]

In slams, Stich (1 win, two other finals); Zverev (one final.)

Outside of slams, probably Zverev.

Right now, Stich is ahead. If/when he wins a slam, I would put Zverev ahead. He may have another path as well, but not there yet.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Zverev might be able to beat Stich once in 15 attempts, maybe.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

One thing they do share in common is unbridled arrogance and a willingness to not put in 100% effort.

I mean, two things...

 

[BGod]

I think Stich made SFs at all Slams and two more Finals. He's well ahead still.

 

[Heliath]

1 slam vs 1 WTF, 1 olympic gold and 3 masters. Its close but probably Zverev.

 

[spottishwood]

1 slam vs 1 WTF, 1 olympic gold and 3 masters. Its close but probably Zverev.

How can you discount Grand slam cup? it's almost equivalent to WTF. All the top players participated in it

 

[mattennis]

One thing they do share in common is unbridled arrogance and a willingness to not put in 100% effort.

I mean, two things...

I don't remember him being arrogant.

Unfulfilled potential? Yes, sure (he was more complex, having a lot of different interests in life, he said it was difficult for him to pursue tennis 100% ) but I don't remember him being arrogant.

What examples do you remember?

 

[UnderratedSlam]

I don't remember him being arrogant.

Unfulfilled potential? Yes, sure (he was more complex, having a lot of different interests in life, he said it was difficult for him to pursue tennis 100% ) but I don't remember him being arrogant.

What examples do you remember?

I am a German speaker and followed 90s tennis on a lot of German channels. Got to "know" him better than perhaps a guy living in Malaysia and not speaking any German.

He was the personification of arrogance. Very pompous, entitled, constantly grumbled, everything on the court annoyed him. Like a civilized version of Ivanisevic (minus the pompousness). Huge chip on his shoulder that Becker was far more liked in Germany than he was.

The hatred between him and Becker went on from 1991 pretty much throughout the 90s, and it was a source of great entertainment for fans. Both consider(ed) themselves God's gifts to the world which made their feud that much better. Kinda like Mac and Connors, except here we had similar playing styles. One got the feeling that Stich (who had a college degree) felt superior to Becker, almost considering him a "peasant" - without ever saying so.

 

[Patriots]

Impressive that Stich made the finals of the French Open when there really was a world of difference between grass and red clay. Also made the USO finals losing to Agassi. History/Legacy wise, Stich still has the edge over Zverev.

Zverev’s window opportunity is closing, within a year Medvedev, Tsitsipas, FAA, Sinner, Alcaraz and some young guns may take over if Zverev doesn’t impose himself on the Majors stage. He keeps on waiting for everyone to allow him to win a Slam. A choking Theim practically was handing him that USO and Zverev was like “no thank you, I’m not ready.” If you can’t win under those circumstances…

 

[Heliath]

How can you discount Grand slam cup? it's almost equivalent to WTF.

Because it didnt last long and it wasnt an official tournament at the time. ATP only gave it retroactively. Grand Slam Cup was literally a glorified exhibition that gave a lot of money and no ATP points were awarded. So no, its not almost equivalent to a WTF.

All the top players participated in it

Not all and plenty of non-top players too. David Wheaton won it and he was never a top 10 player. Magnus Larsson won it in 1994 while he was #19 in the world. Korda won it in 1993 while he was #12 in the world.

If anything it has less value than a Masters1000.

 

[augustobt]

slam, wtf and gold. no contest.

 

[mattennis]

I also speak German but I confess that I mostly followed tennis at that time through American, English, French, Italian and Spanish-speaking media.

He was possibly more prudent, cautious, careful when speaking to foreign media than when he was at home.

Interesting!

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Stich of course. Outside slams they are roughly equal. Stich’s YEC and GSC outweigh Zverev’s two WTFs given that those tournaments were valued way higher in the 90s than today. At slams it is a no-brainer. Stich has one of the most impressive Wimbledon wins along with two more final appearances at other slams, Zverev has his famous record against Top ten players.

 

[Heliath]

Stich of course. Outside slams they are roughly equal. Stich’s YEC and GSC outweigh Zverev’s two WTFs given that those tournaments were valued way higher in the 90s than today. At slams it is a no-brainer. Stich has one of the most impressive Wimbledon wins along with two more final appearances at other slams, Zverev has his famous record against Top ten players.

Stich and Zverev both literally have 39 wins over top 10 players.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

He was the personification of arrogance. Very pompous, entitled, constantly grumbled, everything on the court annoyed him. Like a civilized version of Ivanisevic (minus the pompousness).

The hatred between him and Becker went on from 1991 pretty much throughout the 90s, and it was a source of great entertainment for fans. Both consider(ed) themselves God's gifts to the world which made their feud that much better. Kinda like Mac and Connors, except here we had similar playing styles.

Agree about Stich’s arrogance. He also repeatedly said that he was more talented than Becker (last time in a joint interview as recent as 2015 I believe) and that he was also better looking (he meant this seriously). Stich was absolutely unlikeable and a headcase even though one has to admit that he was very educated and intelligent (speaking English and French, considered studying medicine etc.)

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Stich and Zverev both literally have 39 wins over top 10 players.

I was obviously speaking about their slam record against top ten players.

 

[abmk]

Stich and Zverev both literally have 39 wins over top 10 players.

I was obviously speaking about their slam record against top ten players.

Heliath knows that. He's just trying his BS pump up modern era nonsense. when it is by far the *****iest sh*t period in open era.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

Agree about Stich’s arrogance. He also repeatedly said that he was more talented than Becker (last time in a joint interview as little back as 2015 I believe) and that he was also better looking (he meant this seriously). Stich was absolutely unlikeable and a headcase even though one has to admit that he was very educated and intelligent (speaking English and French, considered studying medicine

Stich had such an obvious inferiority complex over Becker's popularity that it verged on insanity. He tried DESPERATELY to be liked by the German people, to prove that Becker was a peasant undeserving of more adulation, hence why most of Stich's tournament wins came at German events. He gave a lot more effort at home turf than elsewhere.

In that sense he is similar to Djokovic who has a Rafa/RF complex, he too desperately tries to be liked. The difference being that Stich only cared about being accepted in Germany, whereas megalomaniacal quasi-Jesus Djokovic wants interplanetary popularity.

 

[Heliath]

I was obviously speaking about their slam record against top ten players.

It sure is a weird metric to bring up. But again you claimed that both Stich and Zverev were basically equal outside slams despite Zverev actually having more than double the Masters, an olympic gold and more overall titles.

 

[Heliath]

Heliath knows that. He's just trying his BS pump up modern era nonsense. when it is by far the *****iest sh*t period in open era.

"Every past era is better than this one" by abmk on literally any season.

 

[abmk]

Stich obviously. It ain't remotely close.
Slam win at WImbledon beating Edberg and Becker b2b.
Slam final at USO and RG. slam semi at AO.i.e slam semis in all 4 in a surface varied era.

Z doesn't have Wim QF even in a homegenized era and the worst period of open era.
No top 10 win in slams.
1 slam final

 

[spottishwood]

Not all and plenty of non-top players too. David Wheaton won it and he was never a top 10 player. Magnus Larsson won it in 1994 while he was #19 in the world. Korda won it in 1993 while he was #12 in the world.

If anything it has less value than a Masters1000.

They had a different criteria of selecting players, which they did by performances in slams. Magnus Larsson beat Edberg, Agassi, and Sampras to achieve his title. What better players you think he should have beaten?

If anything, I'd value GS cup even more than 2010s WTF just because they had BO5 SF and Finals.

 

[abmk]

"Every past era is better than this one" by abmk on literally any season.

well because this current period is SH*T - weakest period in open era by far, unlike what your propagandness spews.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

It sure is a weird metric to bring up. But again you claimed that both Stich and Zverev were basically equal outside slams despite Zverev actually having more than double the Masters, an olympic gold and more overall titles.

When comparing their slam resume what is weird about bringing up Zverev’s abysmal H2H against top ten players? It is not that there is much else to say so far about his slam performances.

They are roughly equal outside of slams, because Stich won his YEC and GSC during a time when those tournaments had best of five finals and were way more important than today. Stich beat a prime Sampras in the final of his YEC win.

That Zverev has more Masters is to be expected as few people cared about masters during Stich’s time. But I give you that Zverev is ahead here, therefore I said that outside slams they can be considered equal.

 

[spottishwood]

Stich obviously. It ain't remotely close.
Slam win at WImbledon beating Edberg and Becker b2b.
Slam final at USO and RG. slam semi at AO.i.e slam semis in all 4 in a surfacev varied era.

Z doesn't have Wim QF even in a homegenized era and the worst period of open era.
No top 10 win in slams.
1 slam final

Well, I was talking about achievements both had at the age of 24.

Ofc, It doesn't get any better than what Stich did to achieve his wimby title. Beating the two best grass court players.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Heliath knows that. He's just trying his BS pump up modern era nonsense. when it is by far the *****iest sh*t period in open era.

Haha ok. I actually didn’t know this poster yet. Maybe soon one more for my ignore list.

 

[mattennis]

I remember when Stich defeated Becker in Queens 93 (and won the tournament) he was playing really good grasscourt tennis again and was one of the favorites to win Wimbledon, and then, they clashed in that dramatic five-set quarterfinals that Becker won ( unfortunately for Boris, he lost in the next round, SF, against Sampras who ended up winning his first Wimbledon title).