Better Clay courter: Federer or Djokovic

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After RG 2020 update 1.GS titles 1-1 2.GS Finals 5-5 3.GS record 74-15 -70-17 4.GS H2H 1-1 5.Masters 10-6 6.Masters Final 17-16 7.Masters H2H 3-3 8.Titles overall 15-11 9.H2H vs Nadal 7-18 2-14 10.Win/Loss 225-56 /80.07/ - 223 -70 /76.10/
 
La_Para said:
Federer:
2009 French Open champion
Four runner-up trophies at Roland Garros
10 career clay-court titles (appearing in 33 finals)
Six Masters 1000 titles (Hamburg 2002, 04-05, 07; Madrid 2009, 12)
76.6 winning percentage on clay, and 80 percent at Roland Garros

Taken from:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2016578-breaking-down-roger-federers-clay-court-legacy

Djokovic:
has won nine of his 44 career titles on clay.
Five Masters 1000 titles (Rome 08, 11, 14, Monte Carlo 2013, Madrid 11)
One runner-up trophy at Roland Garros
77.4 winning percentage on clay, and 80 percent at Roland Garros
Does better against Nadal? (Didn't know if this is relevant. If it isn't just ignore it)

To start the discussion I've thought of three questions for you to answer:
  • Who do you think is the better clay courter in terms of results at the moment?
  • Will that change if Djokovic wins RG this year?
  • Who do you think has the highest peak on the surface?

PS. I had quite some difficulty finding Djokovic stats, please correct me if I've made a mistake.

Enjoy
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Federer seems to know clay more and thus more comfortable on clay, than Novak is.
It's just general athletic ability of Novak is better and thus he battle Rafa better.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
It took Djokovic reaching another RG final for you to consider him better than Federer there?
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Honestly, yeah. From that point on it just became a number's game of who has more semis.

Still, I feel like Fed also got unlucky in 2015 and 2019 with his draws, otherwise I see him reaching both finals.
 
Federer no doubt. IMO he has the 2nd highest level on clay in history. He would never lose to someone like Thiem or Wawrinka at the peak of his powers.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Djokovic lost three semifinals to Nadal.
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I know. I was just saying that in their 30's Djokovic got some easier roads than Fed, who in 2015 got Stanimal in the QF (which prevented him from reaching the semis, unlike Djoko in 2019) and got Rafa in the semis in 2019 (which prevented him from reaching the final unlike Djokovic in 2020).
 
Novak is better CC player overall but at the FO specifically I'd pick Fed, he played at a higher level in his runs there IMO.

Novak has consistently underperformed at the FO throughout his career, similarly to USO. He's very consistent at both tournies but his level of play in big matches there is often lacking.
 
zagor said:
Novak is better CC player overall but at the FO specifically I'd pick Fed, he played at a higher level in his runs there IMO.

Novak has consistently underperformed at the FO throughout his career, similarly to USO. He's very consistent at both tournies but his level of play in big matches there is often lacking.
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Maybe Fed played at a higher level there but Djokovic's resume is undoubtedly better. Same amount of finals plus two more semifinals, two more quarterfinals, more match wins and a much better W/L %.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Maybe Fed played at a higher level there but Djokovic's resume is undoubtedly better. Same amount of finals plus two more semifinals, two more quarterfinals, more match wins and a much better W/L %.
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I said better, not greater. Greater is stats, numbers, longevity, consistency etc. better is more subjective.

To give another example, Fed is greater than Sampras at Wimbledon. Better however? Debatable.
 
NoleFam said:
There seriously is no argument for Federer now, and imo there hasn't been since 2016.
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Fed still had an argument at RG though. Not anymore after 2020.

But Fed did get unlucky with the draws in 2015 and 2019 which prevented him from reaching another final.
 
Peak to peak - nole over fed 3>>1
Longevity - no brainer nole over fed now between 2008 to 2025 reaching semis and quarters like a joke.
 
The gap between the two has really increased these past few years - so much so that Djokovic is now in a different stratosphere to Federer on clay.

Roger is closer to Bruguera, Courier and all the other riff-raff whereas Novak is closer to Borg and Nadal, the true clay court royalty. :cool:
 
4i17koz7h35f1.jpeg
 
Djokovic2011 said:
The gap between the two has really increased these past few years - so much so that Djokovic is now in a different stratosphere to Federer on clay.

Roger is closer to Bruguera, Courier and all the other riff-raff whereas Novak is closer to Borg and Nadal, the true clay court royalty. :cool:
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Courier and Bruguera were amazing on clay actually. Courier especially is an underrated CC player with some historic FO runs.

They're not riff-raff.
 
Both Federer and Djokovic missed out on a bunch of RG titles thanks to Nadal. Thiem probably would have a couple of RGs as well without Rafa

It would have been a more interesting debate if Nadal never existed
 
zagor said:
Courier and Bruguera were amazing on clay actually. Courier especially is an underrated CC player with some historic FO runs.

They're not riff-raff.
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Sergi Bruguera holds the record, I believe, for the most consecutive games won at the French Open, at 31.

1993 French Open: Bruguera played Leconte in the first round, Bruguera won the first set 7-6, Leconte won the first game of the second set and then 12 games in a row for Bruguera to win 7-6, 6-1, 6-0. Second round saw Bruguera beat Champion 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 (30 games in a row won at this point). Third round saw Bruguera beat Larsson 6-1, 6-3, 6-1 (31 games in a row streak snapped in the second game of the match). In the fourth round, Bruguera beat Meligeni 6-3, 6-1, 7-5. In the quarter final, Bruguera beat world number 1 Sampras 6-3, 4-6, 6-1, 6-4. In the semi final, Bruguera met Medvedev (whom he was 0-3 against at the time) and yet beat Medvedev 6-0, 6-4, 6-2. In the final, Bruguera met Courier, and Courier had won 20 matches in a row at the French Open including the previous two French Open titles. Bruguera beat Courier 6-4, 2-6, 6-2, 3-6, 6-3, coming from 0-2 down in the fifth set.

1994 French Open: Bruguera beat Damm 6-1, 6-1, 7-6 in the first round, beat Christian Ruud (Casper's dad) 6-2, 6-2, 7-6 in the second round, beat veteran Haitian Ronald Agenor in the third round 6-3, 6-3, 6-3, smashed Rafter (who had beaten Muster) 6-4, 6-3, 6-1 in the fourth round. In the quarter finals, Bruguera came up against rival Medvedev who had beaten him 7-5, 6-1, 6-3 in the 1994 Monte Carlo final. Bruguera beat Medvedev 6-3, 6-2, 7-5 in the 1994 French Open quarter final. Then a repeat of the previous year's final and Courier had just foiled Sampras' attempts to win 4 majors in a row by beating him in the quarter final in 4 sets. Bruguera beat Courier in the semi final 6-3, 5-7, 6-3, 6-3. Then the final against Alberto Berasategui, who himself had had an amazing run to the final without dropping a set. Bruguera beat Berasategui 6-3, 7-5, 2-6, 6-1. Berasategui blew his chance when leading 5-2 in the second set, only to lose the next 5 games.
 
Djokovic is on a different tier than Federer on clay. He’s below Rafa and Borg, but clearly a tier or two above Roger. He's beaten Nadal twice at Roland-Garros. That alone puts him in a league Roger never touched.
 
Juice4080 said:
Djokovic is on a different tier than Federer on clay. He’s below Rafa and Borg, but clearly a tier or two above Roger. He's beaten Nadal twice at Roland-Garros. That alone puts him in a league Roger never touched.
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Federer didn't get to face 2015 Nadal there ;)

Djokovic first beat Nadal at the French Open at his 7th attempt.
 
I think Djokovic is a clear third or fourth on clay.

To compare to Nadal and Borg would be one thing but he is having very big gap to Federer who is not a clay courter as well. This is where Nolefams lose the conversation when we compare our guy to someone like a BORG who is actually Nadal 1.0 or Nadal is Borg 2.0. They are really unique twosome.
 
Peak 24 year old djokovic at his absolute best who was damn near undefeated for the year lost to 30 year old Fed at RG. That pretty much tells me everything I need to know. Fed clearly. Djokers is great on clay but these guys he’s playing isn’t peak Nadal or even on the same stratosphere who stopped Fed from winning at least 4 RGs in a row and probably 7-8 RGs overrall

Djoker is better than Fed on hards. That is all
 
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nolefam_2024 said:
I think Djokovic is a clear third or fourth on clay.

To compare to Nadal and Borg would be one thing but he is having very big gap to Federer who is not a clay courter as well. This is where Nolefams lose the conversation when we compare our guy to someone like a BORG who is actually Nadal 1.0 or Nadal is Borg 2.0. They are really unique twosome.
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I didn't compare Djokovic to Borg, I simply stated that he's closer to Borg than Federer is to him which is true when you break everything down
 
zagor said:
Courier and Bruguera were amazing on clay actually. Courier especially is an underrated CC player with some historic FO runs.

They're not riff-raff.
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I still have nightmares about Jim losing the 1993 FO final to Bruguera as he thrashed three weeks earlier in Rome. He choked that final going for a 3-peat. He had the chance for revenge a year later and got beat again in the SF!
 
TheGoldenEra1990’s said:
Peak 24 year old djokovic at his absolute best who was damn near undefeated for the year lost to 30 year old Fed at RG. That pretty much tells me everything I need to know. Fed clearly. Djokers is great on clay but these guys he’s playing isn’t peak Nadal or even on the same stratosphere who stopped Fed from winning at least 4 RGs in a row and probably 7-8 RGs overrall

Djoker is better than Fed on hards. That is all
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This. That 2011 match between Federer and Djokovic literally ended any debate. The guy to ask this question to in a few years time is in fact Nadal.
 
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