Better performance -- Alcaraz 2022 USO vs Sinner 2024 USO

[Aabye5]

Pick the better major performance between the two latest ATP stars - US Open 2022 vs US Open 2024.

On the one hand, it was the first major title for Alcaraz and he was only 19 years old. On the other hand, he did have to battle through a 5-set semifinal (Tiafoe) and quarterfinal (Sinner) whereas Sinner was able to up his game in the latter stages of the 2024 tournament. Sinner's competition was arguably not as tough, however, although how he handled Medvedev is quite telling.

 

[jl809]

Sinner 2024 would have beaten 2022 Raz and wouldn’t have gone to 5 vs Tiafoe or Washed Cilic, so there’s the answer

 

[InsideOut900]

Sinner slightly. Raz was gritty in 2022, but let's not forget he should have lost to Sinner in the QF.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Neither draw was strong, but The Sinner did dispatch of his draw much easier than Chuck did. Beating the Mad Lad pretty comfortably in 4 was the most impressive win between their runs to their respective titles I think.

 

[MeatTornado]

Sinner was better strictly in terms of level.

But Alcaraz was more impressive with the way he was able to gut out those wins before he had much slam experience.

 

[objection_]

Ehh Alcaraz's level wasn't really lower, he really only went to 5 sets in some of his matches cause he was unclutch - had 4 set points in the 2nd set against Sinner, including a sitter forehand winner into the open court he dumped into the net, served for the 3rd set at 6-5. and had a match point in the 4th set against Tiafoe, which he barely saved.

 

[Racquet_smash]

This is not even close.

Alcaraz struggled heavily with players like old man Cilic, Tiafoe and Ruud while Sinner took down Paul, Medvedev and Fritz quite easily.

Not to mention Alcaraz won in the first place because Sinner threw away a match that was already won in 4. And obviously Sinner ins 2024 is a significantly better player than he was in 2022.

 

[Aabye5]

This is not even close.

Alcaraz struggled heavily with players like old man Cilic, Tiafoe and Ruud while Sinner took down Paul, Medvedev and Fritz quite easily.

Not to mention Alcaraz won in the first place because Sinner threw away a match that was already won in 4. And obviously Sinner ins 2024 is a significantly better player than he was in 2022.

I wouldn't say the Medvedev match was easy. It was very up-and-down for both players.

No way Sinner threw that match away.

 

[Racquet_smash]

I wouldn't say the Medvedev match was easy. It was very up-and-down for both players.

No way Sinner threw that match away.

Sinner was up 2 sets to 1, up a break, served for the match and even had a couple of match points (don't exactly remember how many). He was also up a break during the fifth. If that's not throwing i don't know what to tell you.

The Medvedev match wasn't a breeze but still not much of a struggle. Sinner easily won both set 1 and 3 and never faced huge dangers during the 4th. Needless to say Medvedev is much better than any of the 3 players Carlos played against like Ruud or Tiafoe.

 

[Aabye5]

Sinner was up 2 sets to 1, up a break, served for the match and even had a couple of match points (don't exactly remember how many). He was also up a break during the fifth. If that's not throwing i don't know what to tell you.

The Medvedev match wasn't a breeze but still not much of a struggle. Sinner easily won both set 1 and 3 and never faced huge dangers during the 4th. Needless to say Medvedev is much better than any of the 3 players Carlos played against like Ruud or Tiafoe.

He wasn't as mentally tough as he is now. Most players have to learn how to fight through those matches.

Was this version of Medvedev better than that version Sinner?

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Alcaraz.
Sinner's only tough opponent was Medvedev in the QF and even he failed to deliver. Everyone else just failed in his draw.

 

[dking68]

Alcaraz.
Sinner's only tough opponent was Medvedev in the QF and even he failed to deliver. Everyone else just failed in his draw.

Man, you are lying to yourself. Sinner 2024 clears Alcaraz 2022 in max 4 sets

 

[Net Beast]

Sinner was better strictly in terms of level.

But Alcaraz was more impressive with the way he was able to gut out those wins before he had much slam experience.

This. It's really tough to compare. I think Alcaraz had a tougher draw too, and beat Sinner to produce one of the most memorable matches of 2022. Because of this, I voted Alcaraz, although it is possible 2024 Sinner based on level alone would beat 2022 Alcaraz. However, it is unfair to match 2024 Sinner with 2022 Alcaraz. 2022 Sinner was already matched with 2022 Alcaraz, after all.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Alcaraz.
Sinner's only tough opponent was Medvedev in the QF and even he failed to deliver. Everyone else just failed in his draw.

Sinner was dominant in a way Carlos was not. But competition comparison is fair.

 

[MissileBackHand99]

Alcaraz

I'll never understand how a player getting through a 5-set marathon, with their opponent just as determined to win as they are, is seen as a "lower" performance than someone winning in straight sets. For me, the true test of a player is what are they gonna do when the opponent is playing well, winning sets, etc. Alcaraz got through that Awesome match with Sinner, than another fantastic match in the SFs vs Tiafoe. Then beat Ruud in the Finals. That to me is much more impressive than Sinner's run a couple weeks ago at Flushing Meadows

 

[The Blond Blur]

Alcaraz

I'll never understand how a player getting through a 5-set marathon, with their opponent just as determined to win as they are, is seen as a "lower" performance than someone winning in straight sets. For me, the true test of a player is what are they gonna do when the opponent is playing well, winning sets, etc. Alcaraz got through that Awesome match with Sinner, than another fantastic match in the SFs vs Tiafoe. Then beat Ruud in the Finals. That to me is much more impressive than Sinner's run a couple weeks ago at Flushing Meadows

Well it’s because the guys who were taking to 5 sets weren’t playing at a high level.

 

[MissileBackHand99]

Well it’s because the guys who were taking to 5 sets weren’t playing at a high level.

and that's a purely subjective take. I can just as easily argue that the ones Sinner beat in straights weren't "playing at a high level". I'll take a player battling through a five set slugfest over a player dismissing someone in straights

 

[Racquet_smash]

Both of them had a very easy path to victory.

Old man Cilic and Paul are both decent opponents, albeit mentally weak.

Medvedev is a very good opponent on paper but in 2024 he's far from his best. Sinner played a decent match back in 2022 but at the time he was deemed as a wasted talent. It would be like saying beating 2002 Fed in a slam makes it tough. Not really.

Tiafoe/ Draper and Ruud/ Fritz are both easy opposition as far as slam semifinals and finals go.

The difference is that one guy dropped 7 sets and was at risk of losing against several players, the other never did and only lost 2 sets.

 

[Biotic]

Sinner clearly.

2022 USO was a product of chance more than anything else.

 

[The Blond Blur]

and that's a purely subjective take. I can just as easily argue that the ones Sinner beat in straights weren't "playing at a high level". I'll take a player battling through a five set slugfest over a player dismissing someone in straights

That’s the point though, if Chuck was playing at a super high level he shouldn’t have been dragged into 5 setters vs a washed up Cilic and Tiafoe. Francis got less than 50% of his first serves in play and was serving 70mph 2nd serves on a regular basis…they were 50mph slower than most of his first serves. Cilic barely over 50% of his first serves in play and had only 1 less DF than aces. The Sinner landed in only 55% of his first serves in play and had more DFs than aces. And Casper is a 250 CC merchant.

And I was at the Tiafoe and Sinner matches in person. The latter was a fun match but I wouldn’t call it super high quality. And the former never should have been that close.

 

[Aabye5]

Sinner clearly.

2022 USO was a product of chance more than anything else.

No way 2022 USO was a product of chance, especially not at that age.

 

[Aabye5]

That’s the point though, if Chuck was playing at a super high level he shouldn’t have been dragged into 5 setters vs a washed up Cilic and Tiafoe. Francis got less than 50% of his first serves in play and was serving 70mph 2nd serves on a regular basis…they were 50mph slower than most of his first serves. Cilic barely over 50% of his first serves in play and had only 1 less DF than aces. The Sinner landed in only 55% of his first serves in play and had more DFs than aces. And Casper is a 250 CC merchant.

And I was at the Tiafoe and Sinner matches in person. The latter was a fun match but I wouldn’t call it super high quality. And the former never should have been that close.

Tiafoe can get on a roll, that was a high level match.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Tiafoe can get on a roll, that was a high level match.

He only got 47% 1st serves in play and was routinely hitting 2nd serves in the 70 mph range. That match had no business going 5.

 

[Aabye5]

He only got 47% 1st serves in play and was routinely hitting 2nd serves in the 70 mph range. That match had no business going 5.

Did you see the 1st serve for every round at the US Open this year? They were averaging in the low to mid 50s.

And for Tiafoe, hitting the slower second serve actually seems to be a strategy. Better than a double fault and it can often catch his opponents off guard.

 

[dking68]

No way 2022 USO was a product of chance, especially not at that age.

You make some of the dumbest threads

 

[Aabye5]

You make some of the dumbest threads

Maybe. Or maybe they just don't interest you because they aren't all about praising Sinner to high heaven.

This question to me is genuinely not an easy call.

 

[TheSlicer]

Maybe. Or maybe they just don't interest you because they aren't all about praising Sinner to high heaven.

This question to me is genuinely not an easy call.

when the dumbest poster tells you that your thread is dumb, you should take it as a compliment

 

[TheSlicer]

Sinner clearly.

2022 USO was a product of chance more than anything else.

oh yeah, alcaraz hasnt won anything since, he was so lucky, lol

 

[The Blond Blur]

Did you see the 1st serve for every round at the US Open this year? They were averaging in the low to mid 50s.

And for Tiafoe, hitting the slower second serve actually seems to be a strategy. Better than a double fault and it can often catch his opponents off guard.

And Chuck’s opponents from Cilic to Tiafoe averaged 51% 1st. Those weak 2nd serves were just begging to be punished. He only won 49% of his 2nd serve points in that match.

 

[Biotic]

oh yeah, alcaraz hasnt won anything since, he was so lucky, lol

He failed to back it up on HC, that's what I meant. HC results for the past 2 years have been bleak, at least by the Big 3 standards.

 

[Hitman]

Sinner's performance was better, but Alcaraz had the more fun run.

 

[Net Beast]

I guess that winning easy against inferior competition is less memorable than struggling, producing a legendary match (the one vs Sinner), etc. Even though Sinners's performance is likely better, the accomplishment looks more lackluster to me.

 

[Racquet_smash]

I guess that winning easy against inferior competition is less memorable than struggling, producing a legendary match (the one vs Sinner), etc. Even though Sinners's performance is likely better, the accomplishment looks more lackluster to me.

None of the 2 had strong competition. Both were extremely easy slam wins by path to the win.

 

[Net Beast]

None of the 2 had strong competition. Both were extremely easy slam wins by path to the win.

 

[Third Serve]

Sinner better overall but the 2022 QF was one of the very few high-quality Slam matches we’ve seen in the last five or so years so I do give Carlos small props for that one at least. Rest of the tournament was ugly though.

 

[Racquet_smash]

And? 2022 Sinner is a very strong opponent? Someone who couldn't even win a M1000?

Same goes for 2024 Medvedev.

 

[MissileBackHand99]

That’s the point though, if Chuck was playing at a super high level he shouldn’t have been dragged into 5 setters vs a washed up Cilic and Tiafoe. Francis got less than 50% of his first serves in play and was serving 70mph 2nd serves on a regular basis…they were 50mph slower than most of his first serves. Cilic barely over 50% of his first serves in play and had only 1 less DF than aces. The Sinner landed in only 55% of his first serves in play and had more DFs than aces. And Casper is a 250 CC merchant.

And I was at the Tiafoe and Sinner matches in person. The latter was a fun match but I wouldn’t call it super high quality. And the former never should have been that close.

Again, a subjective take. You're basing that take on Tiafoe not being very good and Cilic being an "old man" who shouldn't be capable of playing at a high level. Then trying to justify that with first serve percentage. Numbers/stats don't always tell the whole story

Again, I'll never understand how winning an exciting, down to the wire, 5-set thriller...is seen as less than a boring, straight set, uncompetitive win. When your opponent is just as determined, playing just as clutch as you are...finding a way to come out on top is what shows your worth as a player IMO

 

[Net Beast]

And? 2022 Sinner is a very strong opponent? Someone who couldn't even win a M1000?

Same goes for 2024 Medvedev.

Sinner actually performed better in 2022 than in 2023, he reached the QF at three slams, which at 21 is quite remarkable. But you should just focus on that match and forget anything else about Sinner that year. It was a great match, and much more competitive than anything Sinner produced this year at the USO.

 

[Racquet_smash]

Sinner actually performed better in 2022 than in 2023, he reached the QF at three slams, which at 21 is quite remarkable. But you should just focus on that match and forget anything else about Sinner that year. It was a great match, and much more competitive than anything Sinner produced this year at the USO.

Sinner was better by every metric this year than in 2022. Better serve, far better shot selection, much better volleys and better tactical approach.

 

[MissileBackHand99]

He failed to back it up on HC, that's what I meant. HC results for the past 2 years have been bleak, at least by the Big 3 standards.

Soooo him winning Indian Wells the last 2 years, having that great Final in Cincy vs Novak, getting right back to the semis in the 2023 USO, etc are "bleak" HC results??

 

[Biotic]

Soooo him winning Indian Wells the last 2 years, having that great Final in Cincy vs Novak, getting right back to the semis in the 2023 USO, etc are "bleak" HC results??

Well, you tell me.

2/12 masters
0/4 slams, only 1 SF
0/2 YEC

Again, talking about HC only (which is 2/3 of the season).

Does it really look great when we know we're talking about a guy who is supposed to be the best player out there?

 

[The Blond Blur]

Again, a subjective take. You're basing that take on Tiafoe not being very good and Cilic being an "old man" who shouldn't be capable of playing at a high level. Then trying to justify that with first serve percentage. Numbers/stats don't always tell the whole story

Again, I'll never understand how winning an exciting, down to the wire, 5-set thriller...is seen as less than a boring, straight set, uncompetitive win. When your opponent is just as determined, playing just as clutch as you are...finding a way to come out on top is what shows your worth as a player IMO

Ok…So numbers and eye test don’t tell the whole story. Anything else we get to discount?

There’s levels to 5 setters. Just because a match went 5 sets doesn’t mean it was a good match. Because by that logic the 2020 USO F would be highly regarded, when in actuality it was one of the worst GS Fs of all time. So if a player is getting dragged into 5 set matches against opponents playing subpar tennis it’s perfectly reasonable to take that as an indictment on that player’s level of play. Chuck was generating tons of BPs but wasn’t breaking at that high of a rate in relation to the number of BPs he was creating.

To put it in the simplest of terms, I think it shows a higher level of play If a player is able to blitz his way through a weak draw than to struggle against a similar (or worse) draw.

 

[ppma]

Comparing a freshman 19 yo player against an experienced top 1 for almost a year 23 yo is somewhat unfair to say the least.
Competition was higher for Carlos than for Sinner in 2024. Despite of this, I think 23 yo Sinner at USO '24 would defeat 19yo Carlos at USO '22. My vote takes into account the relative level of their competition. For Sinner in 2024 it's been several steps below in coparison to 2022 Carlos's

 

[TheSlicer]

He failed to back it up on HC, that's what I meant. HC results for the past 2 years have been bleak, at least by the Big 3 standards.

Sorry but Saying anything alcaraz has done is a product of luck is understanding nothing about tennis

 

[Biotic]

Sorry but Saying anything alcaraz has done is a product of luck is understanding nothing about tennis

Riiiight. May his wonderful HC form continue for a long time.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Sinner wins this one!

 

[FeroBango]

Sinner 2024 would have beaten 2022 Raz and wouldn’t have gone to 5 vs Tiafoe or Washed Cilic, so there’s the answer

On the contrary, he still loses to Raz for against him, he was always Sinner 2.0

 

[FeroBango]

This. It's really tough to compare. I think Alcaraz had a tougher draw too, and beat Sinner to produce one of the most memorable matches of 2022. Because of this, I voted Alcaraz, although it is possible 2024 Sinner based on level alone would beat 2022 Alcaraz. However, it is unfair to match 2024 Sinner with 2022 Alcaraz. 2022 Sinner was already matched with 2022 Alcaraz, after all.

Then again Alcaraz is 2-0 against Sinner 2.0 after all.

 

[Net Beast]

Then again Alcaraz is 2-0 against Sinner 2.0 after all.

That is true too. Alcaraz 1.0 also managed to beat Sinner 1.0 a few times. Sinner is great in HC, but people are discounting Alcaraz's chances too much.

 

[Djokodalerer31]

Djokovic 2023...